UK announces new post-Brexit global tariff regime

[candide]

14 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Stagnation is the new 'doing quite well', it would seem. 

 

14 hours ago, candide said:

Unfortunately, you may well be right.

Very likely right.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102546/coronavirus-european-gdp-growth/

[7by7]

20 hours ago, Loiner said:

Yes, everything related to the EU has been a massive scam. 

 

The UK has been objecting for years, but saddled with the EU quotas and nobody was doing anything about it. 

We are now out and don’t need to allow the EU to perpetuate the CFP scam any longer. 

 

You have evidence that the UK has been objecting for years?

 

Of course, if we ban EU boats from our waters, they will ban our boats from theirs. In 2017, 80% of the UK catch came from UK waters, and 13% from other EU member's waters (source).

 

We export a large amount of fish, for example most shellfish caught by British boats in British waters is exported to the EU. What will happen to the communities who rely on these exports if there is no deal or if we apply prohibitive tariffs to EU imports and the EU retaliate by doing the same to us?

 

The industry has been warning the government about the impact of either of these since at least 2018: BREXIT SHELLFISH THREAT: NO DEAL BREXIT SHELLFISH WARNING

[sungod]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

That's the problem with referendums, right there in your last sentence- a simple yes or no. In Brexit did yes to leave mean leave with a deal or not? 

The situation is too complex to be solved by a simple yes or no.

Regarding Scotland or any referendum, the problem of non voters can be dealt with by making voting compulsory as in 22 countries. Voters would have the choice to disagree with either option if they wished but at least everyone would have expressed a view and a majority opinion could be ascertained.

Of course a problem in Scotland is the chronic alcoholism which could lead some voters to tick the wrong box.

How drunk must one be to have one's vote discarded?

But I digress, ( only an old joke dear TV Scots), make voting compulsory then see the results.

OMG, you are not doing very well are you, you keep dodging the question to your own argument, you are hilarious!!!

 

Anyway, at least one good thing, you wont be using your own flawed argument anymore.......

 

Looks like you been on too much of the pop yourself............ ????

[7by7]

23 hours ago, sungod said:

And everyone will have their chance at the next election, whats your point?

 My point was to question @vinny41's assertion that support for the Tories was growing and that for Labour was falling. As is obvious due to my quoting him in the post of mine you quoted.

 

So why not ask him what his point was in posting that in the first place?

[7by7]

8 hours ago, sungod said:

It was the majority of the people who cared about the vote.

Just as the majority of people who cared enough to vote last December expressed a desire for a final referendum on the deal by voting for parties who promised us such.

 

Will this government follow the will of the majority?

 

No, because Cummings knows that he will lose any such referendum. 

[vinny41]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 My point was to question @vinny41's assertion that support for the Tories was growing and that for Labour was falling. As is obvious due to my quoting him in the post of mine you quoted.

 

So why not ask him what his point was in posting that in the first place?

Nothing false in my post here it is again 

Voting Intention Tracker (GB) From 2019 General Election - Present

Conservatives up 4% since election

Labour up 1% since election

Lib Dem down 6% since election

SNP up 1% since election

Greens up 2% since election

Brexit party no change since election

Other parties down 2% since election

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/tgecsva5ie/YG trackers - Voting Intention since GE 2019_W.pdf

[7by7]

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Nothing false in my post here it is again 

Voting Intention Tracker (GB) From 2019 General Election - Present

Conservatives up 4% since election

Labour up 1% since election

Lib Dem down 6% since election

SNP up 1% since election

Greens up 2% since election

Brexit party no change since election

Other parties down 2% since election

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/tgecsva5ie/YG trackers - Voting Intention since GE 2019_W.pdf

 I didn't say the figures were false, I said "My point was to question @vinny41's assertion assertion that support for the Tories was growing and that for Labour was falling."

 

As shown by the polls, including yours, which I linked to.

 

If you want to substitute 'implication' for 'assertion' feel free; but doing so wont change my meaning. 

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

 I didn't say the figures were false, I said "My point was to correct @vinny41's false assertion that support for the Tories was growing and that for Labour was falling."

 

As shown by the polls, including yours, which I linked to.

 

If you want to substitute 'implication' for 'assertion' feel free; but doing so wont change my meaning. 

And all your posts wouldn't change the figures

Conservatives up 4% since election Labour up only 1% since the election Lib dem down 6% since the election

So no false assertion as everyone can clearly see since the election the Conservative share of the votes have increased by 4%

[7by7]

11 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

And all your posts wouldn't change the figures

Conservatives up 4% since election Labour up only 1% since the election Lib dem down 6% since the election

So no false assertion as everyone can clearly see since the election the Conservative share of the votes have increased by 4%

What you continue to avoid mentioning is that their support has dropped from a high of 53% and is still falling.

 

So your assertion that their support is increasing is obviously false.

[sungod]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

Will this government follow the will of the majority?

 

 

I thought the Conservatives won, by quite a large majority?

 

 

[vinny41]

Just now, 7by7 said:

What you continue to avoid mentioning is that their support has dropped from a high of 53% and is still falling.

 

So your assertion that their support is increasing is obviously false.

Look at the link Conservatives up 4% since election if you have a problem with that I suggest you contact YouGov

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, sungod said:

I thought the Conservatives won, by quite a large majority?

 

 

 If you believe 43% is a majority, then your maths teacher should be ashamed.

 

Yes, our first past the post system meant that despite only receiving 43% of the votes, the Tories gained a majority of 80 seats. That is why the will of the 53% who voted for the promise of another referendum will be ignored.

[7by7]

11 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Look at the link Conservatives up 4% since election if you have a problem with that I suggest you contact YouGov

I have looked at the link; did so when you first posted it. That is how I know their results show that the government's support has fallen from a high of 53% to 48%.

 

If you have a problem with that, I suggest you contact YouGov; and all the other pollsters whose results show a similar fall in the government's support.

 

Your refusal to accept the figures you, yourself first linked to means we are going round in circles.

 

If you want yet another attempt at justifying that refusal; take it. I wont be responding further. Your figures speak for themselves, no matter how much you try to deny it.

Edited May 23, 2020 by 7by7
Addendum

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I have looked at the link; did so when you first posted it. That is how I know their results show that the government's support has fallen from a high of 53% to 48%.

 

If you have a problem with that, I suggest you contact YouGov; and all the other pollsters whose results show a similar fall in the government's support.

And still the Conservatives up 4% since election while Labour has only gain 1% and the lib dems have lost 6%

[sungod]

Just now, 7by7 said:

 If you believe 43% is a majority, then your maths teacher should be ashamed.

 

Yes, our first past the post system meant that despite only receiving 43% of the votes, the Tories gained a majority of 80 seats. That is why the will of the 53% who voted for the promise of another referendum will be ignored.

So, on that logic everyone who didn't vote Tory wants to remain right?

 

Many Labour supporters voted leave, maybe your humanities teacher is the one who should be facing the chop!

[7by7]

Just now, vinny41 said:

And still the Conservatives up 4% since election while Labour has only gain 1% and the lib dems have lost 6%

See my addendum to my previous: "Your refusal to accept the figures you, yourself first linked to means we are going round in circles.

 

If you want yet another attempt at justifying that refusal; take it. I wont be responding further. Your figures speak for themselves, no matter how much you try to deny it."

[bannork]

1 hour ago, sungod said:

OMG, you are not doing very well are you, you keep dodging the question to your own argument, you are hilarious!!!

 

Anyway, at least one good thing, you wont be using your own flawed argument anymore.......

 

Looks like you been on too much of the pop yourself............ ????

Sorry to disappoint you but every time some Brexiteer claims Brexit was the will of the people I will remind them that only a minority of the voters voted for Brexit. 

[vinny41]

8 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

See my addendum to my previous: "Your refusal to accept the figures you, yourself first linked to means we are going round in circles.

 

If you want yet another attempt at justifying that refusal; take it. I wont be responding further. Your figures speak for themselves, no matter how much you try to deny it."

Its you that refuses to accept that since the election the Conservatives are  up 4% since election while Labour has only gain 1% and the lib dems have lost 6%

[7by7]

2 minutes ago, sungod said:

So, on that logic everyone who didn't vote Tory wants to remain right?

 

Many Labour supporters voted leave, maybe your humanities teacher is the one who should be facing the chop!

 

Some basic maths for you:- 53+43=96, not 100.

 

The parties that the remaining 4% voted for all supported Brexit in one form or another, but didn't demand or promise a final referendum on the deal.

 

I am not saying that all of the 53% want to remain; but they did want a choice on the deal. Most of the parties that 53% voted for, especially Labour, supported Brexit in principle in their manifestoes; but also promised a referendum on the final deal.

 

BTW: many Tory supporters voted remain.

[sungod]

Just now, 7by7 said:

 

 

 

BTW: many Tory supporters voted remain.

Correct, you just stuffed your own argument.

[sungod]

12 minutes ago, bannork said:

Sorry to disappoint you but every time some Brexiteer claims Brexit was the will of the people I will remind them that only a minority of the voters voted for Brexit. 

So, same results in  a Scottish Independence referendum. Should Scotland get independence or remain in the UK. Its your argument so answer the question. If you cant back your own logic then you will just confirm what many of us are thinking, that you really have no idea what you are talking about. 

[vinny41]

19 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 If you believe 43% is a majority, then your maths teacher should be ashamed.

 

Yes, our first past the post system meant that despite only receiving 43% of the votes, the Tories gained a majority of 80 seats. That is why the will of the 53% who voted for the promise of another referendum will be ignored.

Its simply really if the promise of another referendum was the single key issue both the SNP and Lib dems could have said we will not stand any candidates in the 2019 General election we want all of our voters to vote Labour

And as I recall the majority of the electorate didn't vote Yes to remain in the 1975 eec rederendum so the UK remained in the EEC on a minority vote of the total electorate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum

[7by7]

Just now, sungod said:

Correct, you just stuffed your own argument.

 How so?

 

53% voted for parties who promised a referendum; fact.

 

Just as some Labour voters may have switched their vote to Conservative in December because they supported Brexit, though not very many as the Conservative vote only increased by 1.2%, some Conservative voters who didn't support Brexit, or at least want another referendum on the deal, may have switched their vote to those parties promising a referendum; such as the LibDems whose share increased by 4.2%; the largest increase of all.

[7by7]

12 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Its simply really if the promise of another referendum was the single key issue both the SNP and Lib dems could have said we will not stand any candidates in the 2019 General election we want all of our voters to vote Labour

Perhaps they should have done; as Plaid Cymru, the Lib Dems and Greens did in some Welsh seats.

 

Farage withdrew many of his Brexit Party candidates in many Tory marginal seats, telling his supporters there to vote Tory. Much to the chagrin of his candidates in those seats, if I recall.

 

I wonder how different the result would have been had he not done so.

 

12 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

And as I recall the majority of the electorate didn't vote Yes to remain in the 1975 eec rederendum so the UK remained in the EEC on a minority vote of the total electorate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum

My firm belief, as expressed much earlier in this topic, is that it is only those who exercise their right to vote who should be counted, and those who choose not to should be ignored.

 

But as the above indicates that you believe differently, then a reminder that the majority of the electorate didn't vote leave in 2016.

Edited May 23, 2020 by 7by7
Addendum

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

Perhaps they should have done; as Plaid Cymru, the Lib Dems and Greens did in some Welsh seats.

 

As Farage did in some Tory seats, telling his supporters to vote Tory. Much to the chagrin of his candidates in those seats, if I recall.

 

My firm belief, as expressed much earlier in this topic, is that it is only those who exercise their right to vote who should be counted, and those who choose not to should be ignored.

 

But as the above indicates that you believe differently, then a reminder that the majority of the electorate didn't vote leave in 2016.

Yes and we both know that in 1975 referendum The majority that did vote to remain won and in the 2016 referendum the majority that did vote to leave won

[7by7]

Just now, vinny41 said:

Yes and we both know that in 1975 referendum The majority that did vote to remain won and in the 2016 referendum the majority that did vote to leave won

I have never denied that Leave won in 2016.

 

You're the one who made the point that in 1975 the majority of the electorate did not vote to remain. I was merely applying your point to 2016.

[bannork]

20 minutes ago, sungod said:

So, same results in  a Scottish Independence referendum. Should Scotland get independence or remain in the UK. Its your argument so answer the question. If you cant back your own logic then you will just confirm what many of us are thinking, that you really have no idea what you are talking about. 

I've already told you that I believe any referendum should include compulsory voting and from that a majority could be ascertained.

Please try to be less patronising, and and at the same time, less obtuse.

[CG1 Blue]

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 How so?

 

53% voted for parties who promised a referendum; fact.

 

Just as some Labour voters may have switched their vote to Conservative in December because they supported Brexit, though not very many as the Conservative vote only increased by 1.2%, some Conservative voters who didn't support Brexit, or at least want another referendum on the deal, may have switched their vote to those parties promising a referendum; such as the LibDems whose share increased by 4.2%; the largest increase of all.

No matter how many times you play around with the numbers, the fact remains that under electoral rules the UK voted to leave the EU, and later voted in a Tory government that promised to implement Brexit; by a landslide. 

None of your jiggery pokery will change these facts, so you'd better learn to live with it for the sake of your own sanity ????

[sungod]

2 minutes ago, bannork said:

I've already told you that I believe any referendum should include compulsory voting and from that a majority could be ascertained.

Please try to be less patronising, and and at the same time, less obtuse.

I have asked you repeatedly to answer a question based on your own argument. You have continually avoided the question.

 

It says a lot about a person that when they cannot even stand by their own argument, and as such I will no longer be replying to you after this post, you no longer have any credibility.

[Chelseafan]

On 5/20/2020 at 8:18 AM, RuamRudy said:

Well go on then, help us understand the tangible benefits. How will our lives improve as a result of brexit, and why, on the cusp of a crisis, is it wise to strike out alone?

As someone who deals with tariffs (and quotas) every day this could be very good for the UK provided it is negociated WELL.

The EU is a protectionist state and consumers have been ripped off for years with artifically high tariffs.