Thailand's entertainment industry can't just do something else instead because of Covid-19, says insider

[Skallywag]

27 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

I am suggesting that a solution for the future of Pattaya could be to legalise prostitution, embrace what it is and advertise it as a premier sex tourist destination.  Regulating it could protect the women and tackle the illegal trafficking

And who pray tell would be "regulating" and "protecting" women?  Local P0lice? What type of government office in LOS could take on such a task and actually perform it? I agree with you in principle, but all it would do is make the regulators pimps in all likelihood

[GAZZPA]

1 minute ago, Skallywag said:

And who pray tell would be "regulating" and "protecting" women?  Local P0lice? What type of government office in LOS could take on such a task and actually perform it? I agree with you in principle, but all it would do is make the regulators pimps in all likelihood

What are you saying in this mail? You are in agreement with me about regulation but you don't know how that would be done? Why don't you google all the places in the world where it has been legalized and regualated and see how they do it, start with the Netherlands..

[Ryan754326]

10 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

Yes I am passionate about the situation regarding the illegal and/or unregulated sex trade exposing women and children to abuse. I know things about the human trafficking and sex trade because one of my oldest friends is a foster parent and heavily involved in a charity fighting to protect children and vulnerable women. I found out about Pattaya after I started to live there and could see clearly the sex trade was everywhere. I am not married to a Thai woman. Again I give you the same advice I gave the other poster, research sex trafficking yourself and see what is going on in Thailand/Pattaya, or dont, live in denial. simply google it,, wont take you long. I wonder if either of you have the fortitude to actually investigate for yourselves?

You really need to get out and talk to some of the women who actually work in the bars. 

[GAZZPA]

Just now, Ryan754326 said:

You really need to get out and talk to some of the women who actually work in the bars. 

 

Just now, Ryan754326 said:

You really need to get out and talk to some of the women who actually work in the bars. 

Oh really? And what do you think they would say? Do you not think they would spin me whatever story seems appropriate? Or do you think when I ask them about their past the will tell me openly they were trafficked and raped at 14 and have been a hooker ever since working for a gang of organised crime? Get real....

[Ryan754326]

6 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

 

Oh really? And what do you think they would say? Do you not think they would spin me whatever story seems appropriate? Or do you think when I ask them about their past the will tell me openly they were trafficked and raped at 14 and have been a hooker ever since working for a gang of organised crime? Get real....

I think the more experienced and aggressive ones would play you for the sympathetic fool you are, and try to take you for whatever they could. 
 

Do you really believe that the many women who ride around Pattaya on a new motorcycle, with the newest phone in their designer handbag, posting pictures of themselves and their friends at fancy restaurants and nightclubs, all paid for by their multiple foreign sponsors, are being forced to do what they do by the mafia?

 

Human trafficking and the legal entertainment industry are two different topics of discussion, but your emotionally driven preconceptions won’t allow you to separate them.

[GAZZPA]

1 minute ago, Ryan754326 said:

I think the more experienced and aggressive ones would play you for the sympathetic fool you are, and try to take you for whatever they could. 
 

Do you really believe that the many women who ride around Pattaya on a new motorcycle, with the newest phone in their designer handbag, posting pictures of themselves and their friends at fancy restaurants and nightclubs, all paid for by their multiple foreign sponsors, are being forced to do what they do by the mafia?

 

Human trafficking and the legal entertainment industry are two different topics of discussion, but your emotionally driven preconceptions won’t allow you to separate them.

I dont know what it is about people once they get to Thailand, particularly Pattaya. I have told you that the sex industry in Thailand/ Pattaya is not regulated and that there are very clear reports and data on the trafficking issue in Thailand. There are obviously some women who chose the life and want money but what is your process to vet them to ensure that they have no horrible past? Why dont you stop spouting all this stuff and just do some research? When it comes to protecting women and children isnt it worth is to you?

 

[GAZZPA]

7 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

I think the more experienced and aggressive ones would play you for the sympathetic fool you are, and try to take you for whatever they could. 
 

Do you really believe that the many women who ride around Pattaya on a new motorcycle, with the newest phone in their designer handbag, posting pictures of themselves and their friends at fancy restaurants and nightclubs, all paid for by their multiple foreign sponsors, are being forced to do what they do by the mafia?

 

Human trafficking and the legal entertainment industry are two different topics of discussion, but your emotionally driven preconceptions won’t allow you to separate them.

The women wouldn't play me for anything, i don't use hookers and even if I did I am not stupid enough to believe the <deleted> that comes out of their mouths... so they could try and take me for whatever they like but they will get nothing,,, I assume you have been taken for a ride already?

 

[Ryan754326]

22 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

The women wouldn't play me for anything, i don't use hookers and even if I did I am not stupid enough to believe the <deleted> that comes out of their mouths... so they could try and take me for whatever they like but they will get nothing,,, I assume you have been taken for a ride already?

 

Nope, never been taken for a ride yet, but I have known a few bar girls for years, and know all about their history. Obviously every woman has a different story, but the one you are telling is the exception, not the rule, by any stretch. 
 

As for doing research, maybe you could do more of your own by actually talking to the people who work in the industry, rather than reading articles posted by churches and charities who need to garner sympathy in order to fund themselves. 
There’s plenty documentary filmmakers who have taken the time to talk to the women working in Pattaya’s sex trade, which will save you the trouble of having to interact with them yourself, but what’s the point in watching if you assume that anyone who tells you what you don’t want to hear is lying?

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Ryan754326

[GAZZPA]

4 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

Nope, never been taken for a ride yet, but I have known a few bar girls for years, and know all about their history. Obviously every woman has a different story, but the one you are telling is the exception, not the rule, by any stretch. 
 

As for doing research, maybe you could do more of your own by actually talking to the people who work in the industry, rather than reading articles posted by churches and charities who need to garner sympathy in order to fund themselves. 
There’s plenty documentary filmmakers who have taken the time to talk to the women working in Pattaya’s sex trade, which will save you the trouble of having to interact with them yourself, but what’s the point in watching if you assume that anyone who tells you what you don’t want to hear is lying?

 

Goodness me, a typical sex tourist attitude. The charities and churches are trying to support vulnerable women, what do you think they are doing everyday? They are not alone so look again if you find charities and churches not credible sources. I wonder if they would be considered credible if they were tackling poverty or starvation? Try looking harder there are many others and plenty of high calibre press articles from people such as Reuters or the Guardian. But I suspect you wont will you. Look prostitution is illegal in Thailand, however there is a grey line, paying someone for sex is technically not illegal but street walkers are, bar fines are and trafficking certainly is, the authorities turn a blind eye to bar fines and mostly ignore the street walkers across the sea front. Human trafficking is real, sex trafficking is real and you will never, ever know because the industry is not regulated, so you can't tell when you pay that bar fine how they got there. There is no protection for women at all. The sex trade attracts organised crime and trafficking, particularly in Thailand. So unless it is heavily regulated and women and children are protected the whole industry is tainted. check it all out for yourself, research and see what is really going on and stop challenging me over this until you do so. by the way, I lived in Pattaya for 7 years, what makes you think in all that time I didn't speak to a hooker in a bar? Of course I did. Below is a link, took me 30 seconds to find it, shame you are not capable of doing this yourself because you have made up your mind already despite evidence everywhere,,, the height of stupidity in my opinion. Oh lastly, abhoring trafficking and exploitation is does not make me emotional or irrational. It;s people like you living in denial that makes life difficult for people trying to save people from a horrific life.

https://thairesidents.com/local/pattaya-bar-owner-arrested-related-human-trafficking/

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, GAZZPA said:

https://behindthebadge.com/human-trafficking-is-horrible-anywhere-but-in-pattaya-thailand-its-a-thriving-disgrace/

Sorry but i am not interested at all by any church propaganda

most of them, like the one in your link, have an agenda (Usualy to collect more money)

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by kingofthemountain

[GAZZPA]

Just now, kingofthemountain said:

Sorrybut i am not interested at all by any church propaganda

most of them, like the one in your link, have an agenda (Usualy collect money)

well of course you aren't. It doesn't matter what I send you, it will not be credible will it. Why don't you try googling reuters for the coverage or are they also a non credible source, what a waste of time you are.????

[GAZZPA]

3 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Sorrybut i am not interested at all by any church propaganda

most of them, like the one in your link, have an agenda (Usualy collect money)

Here a link of a bar owner arrested for trafficking children into the sex trade in Pattaya, is that enough to get you to research a bit? I bet it isn't. How many men do you think paid a bar fine to take one of those children home? But of course according to you this doesn't happen or exist....

[GAZZPA]

7 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Sorrybut i am not interested at all by any church propaganda

most of them, like the one in your link, have an agenda (Usualy collect money)

blimey another one,,,

https://www.pattayamail.com/news/soi-6-bar-owner-faces-trafficking-charges-underage-girls-236716

[GAZZPA]

8 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Sorrybut i am not interested at all by any church propaganda

most of them, like the one in your link, have an agenda (Usualy collect money)

blimey yet another

 

https://www.thailandnews.co/2020/01/karaoke-bar-owner-arrested-in-ranong-for-sex-trafficking/

[Stadtler]

On 5/20/2020 at 4:28 AM, Oldie said:

"I come with you", "boom boom" and other invitations for sex.

That's what "boom boom" means!  Stadtler thought it meant something else.

[GAZZPA]

9 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Sorrybut i am not interested at all by any church propaganda

most of them, like the one in your link, have an agenda (Usualy collect money)

blimey another one,,,, 

https://pattayaone.news/karaoke-owner-arrested-related-to-human-trafficking/

[Ryan754326]

8 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

Goodness me, a typical sex tourist attitude. The charities and churches are trying to support vulnerable women, what do you think they are doing everyday? They are not alone so look again if you find charities and churches not credible sources. I wonder if they would be considered credible if they were tackling poverty or starvation? Try looking harder there are many others and plenty of high calibre press articles from people such as Reuters or the Guardian. But I suspect you wont will you. Look prostitution is illegal in Thailand, however there is a grey line, paying someone for sex is technically not illegal but street walkers are, bar fines are and trafficking certainly is, the authorities turn a blind eye to bar fines and mostly ignore the street walkers across the sea front. Human trafficking is real, sex trafficking is real and you will never, ever know because the industry is not regulated, so you can't tell when you pay that bar fine how they got there. There is no protection for women at all. The sex trade attracts organised crime and trafficking, particularly in Thailand. So unless it is heavily regulated and women and children are protected the whole industry is tainted. check it all out for yourself, research and see what is really going on and stop challenging me over this until you do so. by the way, I lived in Pattaya for 7 years, what makes you think in all that time I didn't speak to a hooker in a bar? Of course I did. Below is a link, took me 30 seconds to find it, shame you are not capable of doing this yourself because you have made up your mind already despite evidence everywhere,,, the height of stupidity in my opinion. Oh lastly, abhoring trafficking and exploitation is does not make me emotional or irrational. It;s people like you living in denial that makes life difficult for people trying to save people from a horrific life.

https://thairesidents.com/local/pattaya-bar-owner-arrested-related-human-trafficking/

No one here is arguing that human trafficking is okay, or that it doesn’t ever happen. What we are arguing is that there’s a difference between trafficking and the open adult entertainment industry in Pattaya, and that the whole industry shouldn’t be lumped into the same category as sex slavery, when everyone here, including the women themselves, know that the overwhelming majority work in the industry by choice. 
Do you raise the same kind of stink over strip clubs in Vegas? 
Do you think that shutting down the bars full of women who choose to work there would eliminate human trafficking in the world?

 

There’s no point in arguing with you, as you’ve obviously made up your mind on the subject, but if you were to talk to 100 bar girls in Pattaya, and ask them what they thought, I’m willing to bet 99 of them would disagree with you. 

[GAZZPA]

10 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Sorry but i am not interested at all by any church propaganda

most of them, like the one in your link, have an agenda (Usualy to collect more money)

 

anything credible yet? 

 

[kingofthemountain]

1 minute ago, GAZZPA said:

Here a link of a bar owner arrested for trafficking children into the sex trade in Pattaya, is that enough to get you to research a bit? I bet it isn't. How many men do you think paid a bar fine to take one of those children home? But of course according to you this doesn't happen or exist....

Yes police arrest a Thai bar owner 2 years ago for suspicion of traffic

and? Does not prove nothing more than 1 person 2 years ago have been arrested for this reason.

Do you know what was the result in the court? Not more cases since 2 years?

Really i don't see Pattaya like a place where human traffic is massive, AFAIK and i 

very well know hundreds of sex workers, they are all here only because they want

and of course because they want a lot of money in little time and with little work 

Millions of thais people have jobs paid 10 000\month for 8 hours day 6 days a week

everyone do his own choice, who are you to chose for them and dictate the way to go?

[kingofthemountain]

6 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

blimey another one,,,, 

https://pattayaone.news/karaoke-owner-arrested-related-to-human-trafficking/

Sorry it's not in Pattaya

try again....

[Ryan754326]

5 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

anything credible yet? 

 

Here’s one example of the opposite perspective: 

 

https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-03-23/why-cambodias-sex-workers-dont-need-be-saved

 

Yes, I know it’s about Cambodia, but I think  it still applies. Hopefully it’s credible enough for you. 
 

[GAZZPA]

5 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

No one here is arguing that human trafficking is okay, or that it doesn’t ever happen. What we are arguing is that there’s a difference between trafficking and the open adult entertainment industry in Pattaya, and that the whole industry shouldn’t be lumped into the same category as sex slavery, when everyone here, including the women themselves, know that the overwhelming majority work in the industry by choice. 
Do you raise the same kind of stink over strip clubs in Vegas? 
Do you think that shutting down the bars full of women who choose to work there would eliminate human trafficking in the world?

 

There’s no point in arguing with you, as you’ve obviously made up your mind on the subject, but if you were to talk to 100 bar girls in Pattaya, and ask them what they thought, I’m willing to bet 99 of them would disagree with you. 

well your argument is watering down a bit... So for the bar owners that were arrested in Pattaya for trafficking children into the sex trade, whilst the children were there, (before they were saved by charities) how many men paid the bar fine to take the children home? How did they know? How do you tell the difference in a completely unregulated industry where it's all tainted with this horrific crime? Anyway, I know the problem is real and people are fighting it everyday. You and the few others that keep turning a blind eye trying to convince me its not true and the industry is ok because the girls want to do it,,,honest maybe you ALL can finally do some proper research and understand how terrible the situation really is... And talking to bar girls is useless waste of time, they are never going to tell you if something has happened and they will also lie about their age.... yes ive made up my mind, maybe you should think again...

 

[kingofthemountain]

26 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

The charities and churches are trying to support vulnerable women, what do you think they are doing everyday?

No they are not

it's just a cover to raise funds

i mean why a USA church has to go to Thailand to try to protect the Thai women?

There are not enough women to protect already in the USA? 

The only reason it's because it is more easy for them to generate funds donation for a distant cause

it's more difficult for the public to know the reality on the ground so you can write the

story you want to have a lot of money donated. It's all a business

[Mulambana]

On 5/19/2020 at 11:28 PM, Oldie said:

Could be the right time now to change this sex and booze image.

Where could 80% people who travel 10,000 miles to find their brides for a marriage visa or engage in sex orgy would go? It is the last bastion of losers who cant make it happen in their own country. They will be doomed.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Mulambana

[GAZZPA]

1 minute ago, Don Mega said:

I missed your real evidence, can you link it again please.

https://thairesidents.com/local/pattaya-bar-owner-arrested-related-human-trafficking/

 

this is one, would you like the other 4? 

[Don Mega]

3 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

https://thairesidents.com/local/pattaya-bar-owner-arrested-related-human-trafficking/

 

this is one, would you like the other 4? 

Are the other other 4 news tabloid's as well or are they actual credible sources ?

[Ryan754326]

5 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

well your argument is watering down a bit... So for the bar owners that were arrested in Pattaya for trafficking children into the sex trade, whilst the children were there, (before they were saved by charities) how many men paid the bar fine to take the children home? How did they know? How do you tell the difference in a completely unregulated industry where it's all tainted with this horrific crime? Anyway, I know the problem is real and people are fighting it everyday. You and the few others that keep turning a blind eye trying to convince me its not true and the industry is ok because the girls want to do it,,,honest maybe you ALL can finally do some proper research and understand how terrible the situation really is... And talking to bar girls is useless waste of time, they are never going to tell you if something has happened and they will also lie about their age.... yes ive made up my mind, maybe you should think again...

 

Yes, you’re right, human trafficking and sex slavery is a problem, so do you think that if all of the neon-lit gogo bars on walking street were shuttered, that the problem would go away? 
The police and charities do what they can to stop illegal activity involving children, or adults working against their will. All you’re doing is suggesting that a whole bunch of adult women, who choose to make their living working in bars or massage parlors, should be put out of work because you don’t like the idea of what they do. 
You ignore the fact that almost all of those women don’t agree with you. 

[Ryan754326]

7 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

it is not easy for a christian church to raise funds in a 98% Buddhist country, much easier to stay in the USA where there is much more money and a shed load more Christians so try again fella...

Most of their funding comes from people in western countries who have never visited Thailand, and assume that all of the women working in bars are trafficking victims, like you do.

[GAZZPA]

2 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

Yes, you’re right, human trafficking and sex slavery is a problem, so do you think that if all of the neon-lit gogo bars on walking street were shuttered, that the problem would go away? 
The police and charities do what they can to stop illegal activity involving children, or adults working against their will. All you’re doing is suggesting that a whole bunch of adult women, who choose to make their living working in bars or massage parlors, should be put out of work because you don’t like the idea of what they do. 
You ignore the fact that almost all of those women don’t agree with you. 

Really pathetic response. you have done a complete u turn, so firstly i was talking nonsense about the problem and now you say it is a problem but you are now accusing  me of having something against the genuine sex workers? When did I say that? Did I not say to you to regulate it, protect everyone including you the women you seem to think I have something against. Until then the industry suffers, and if that is what it takes to protect children then so be it. So that means you lot will have to go and find real woman relationships instead of paying for it. 

[GAZZPA]

26 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

Are the other other 4 news tabloid's as well or are they actual credible sources ?

Im not going there with you. Google them yourself and judge the credibility. There are plenty of them to find. I doubt you will accept anything from anywhere, not 1 of them because you need to justify yourself and you will turn your cheek on sex trafficking women and children so not to admit there is a problem.. it's pathetic, I have no other words.