Work permit for international consultant

[Lacrimas]

Dear forum community,

 

I'm an European citizen married to a Thai national and I work as international consultant travelling a lot from country to country. Right now I have a contract with a European based company and pay taxes there but being based in Thailand a few months every year I was wondering if there was a way to have a work permit here even if that means paying taxes. 

 

Thank you

[ubonjoe]

You have to be working for a Thai register company or partnership to get a work permit.

You could possibley form a 51/49% partnership with your wife, hire 2 to 4 Thai employees to get a work permit. It would require envoicing the european company for your work.

[Lacrimas]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

You have to be working for a Thai register company or partnership to get a work permit.

You could possibley form a 51/49% partnership with your wife, hire 2 to 4 Thai employees to get a work permit. It would require envoicing the european company for your work.

Thank you for your kind answer. A thai official told me, though, that the Thai employees requirement is forfeited if you work with your wife meaning it is a 'family business'. Was he wrong?

[JackThompson]

21 minutes ago, Lacrimas said:

Thank you for your kind answer. A thai official told me, though, that the Thai employees requirement is forfeited if you work with your wife meaning it is a 'family business'. Was he wrong?

Depending on the labor-dept office, they may allow you to have only 2 employees instead of 4.  I have never heard of zero.  Please send more info, if you find a way to do this. 

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Lacrimas said:

Thank you for your kind answer. A thai official told me, though, that the Thai employees requirement is forfeited if you work with your wife meaning it is a 'family business'. Was he wrong?

You would need at least 2 employees dependent upon the work permit office you apply at. One of them could be your wife.

 

[Lacrimas]

Please take it with a grain of salt but it seems that if the wife is the sole proprietor of the business and the business makes less than 1.2 million of baht it might be possible to issue a work permit for the husband without the need of additional Thai employees. I will need to speak with the labor office.

[tomazbodner]

Wasn't there a possibility to open a representative office of foreign company? I think it had no Thai employees requirement but the documentation from foreign company was required and it was time limited, I think 1 or 2 years max? But that's a long time ago, maybe no longer exists...

[JackThompson]

43 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Wasn't there a possibility to open a representative office of foreign company? I think it had no Thai employees requirement but the documentation from foreign company was required and it was time limited, I think 1 or 2 years max? But that's a long time ago, maybe no longer exists...

I do recall discussion of that.  If you can get a foreign-employer to sponsor the foreign-branch in Thailand - or create an offshore entity and then put a branch here - that might work.  I hope someone with more detail can chime in on that option / costs / capital-requirements / etc. 

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, tomazbodner said:

Wasn't there a possibility to open a representative office of foreign company? I think it had no Thai employees requirement but the documentation from foreign company was required and it was time limited, I think 1 or 2 years max? But that's a long time ago, maybe no longer exists...

I know of two companies that tried to open representative offices in Thailand (specifically to skirt the requirement for Thai employees). Both companies had their applications denied. The Thai authorities want to see proof that the representative office will benefit Thailand, and they are hard to convince.

[BritTim]

Assuming you do not have Thai customers or do work for Thai companies, digital nomads (people working online within Thailand for overseas clients/employers) are tolerated in practice. While not apparently legal according to Thai labour laws, the Thai authorities are aware that there is no suitable legal route for cases such as yours. I would suggest getting a Non O visa based on your Thai spouse followed by one year extensions on the same basis. You can then quietly work from home without any likely issues.

[ChaiyaTH]

7 hours ago, Lacrimas said:

Thank you for your kind answer. A thai official told me, though, that the Thai employees requirement is forfeited if you work with your wife meaning it is a 'family business'. Was he wrong?

Ive heard that you need 2 Thais working and 1 can be the wife again as well if you set it up smart. So effectively you only need 1 person, that doesn't even need to cost you fulltime but just the social taxes and social insurance fees.

Regarding the 'family business' story, I heard similar that you don't need any WP if helping the legal wife on non-o within a family business.
Same as with working online it is a grey area. It is basically pointless to obtain a WP if you are not actually working in TH, so why do you want it?

Depending on your field you can also get a Smart T or E visa with 100K or 200K income and a contract of at least 1 year for the 100K one. 

This visa can be obtained in 1 hour time at the one stop service boots at immigration for 10K baht with the right paperwork and approval of BOI,
you do not get a special Work Permit but you are allowed to work as well have Premium immigration lanes etc.
Once granted it can be renewed for up to 4 years, very easily and cheap. 

I just found out about all this stuff and tried to inform but as usual, they are not helpful or fast at all. Kind of concluded to just buy my yearly extension via a fix and keep my Online business, that is abroad anyway, to myself. If they don't like that, they know to find me and I will just move elsewhere with my money. 
Same to 4-5 other friends with equal to higher income. My best guess without bragging is that we in total spend enough to pay 100 Thais 10K baht a month.

It is just all total nonsense. Depending on which narrative you follow (reality or the army in the news), you can conclude it is fine to work like that without WP and conclude that you have to fear life itself for the latter. I mean, they do not even properly handle applications for their Board of Investment lol, fk them then.

It is like I have taken enough beatings to not fear another one or a KO anymore. I like to stay but if they make it more difficult, I am out.
 

Edited May 23, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[JackThompson]

11 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Ive heard that you need 2 Thais working and 1 can be the wife again as well if you set it up smart. So effectively you only need 1 person, that doesn't even need to cost you fulltime but just the social taxes and social insurance fees.

That's essentially using a "fake" employee.  I would not recommend going down that road, though may undoubtedly do.

 

The Smart Visa idea could work for the OP, though - could be a good fit.  I didn't know the min-pay was 100K - thought it was 200K.  I need to look into this for my own situation.

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by JackThompson

[Lacrimas]

13 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Ive heard that you need 2 Thais working and 1 can be the wife again as well if you set it up smart. So effectively you only need 1 person, that doesn't even need to cost you fulltime but just the social taxes and social insurance fees.

Regarding the 'family business' story, I heard similar that you don't need any WP if helping the legal wife on non-o within a family business.
Same as with working online it is a grey area. It is basically pointless to obtain a WP if you are not actually working in TH, so why do you want it?

Depending on your field you can also get a Smart T or E visa with 100K or 200K income and a contract of at least 1 year for the 100K one. 

This visa can be obtained in 1 hour time at the one stop service boots at immigration for 10K baht with the right paperwork and approval of BOI,
you do not get a special Work Permit but you are allowed to work as well have Premium immigration lanes etc.
Once granted it can be renewed for up to 4 years, very easily and cheap. 

I just found out about all this stuff and tried to inform but as usual, they are not helpful or fast at all. Kind of concluded to just buy my yearly extension via a fix and keep my Online business, that is abroad anyway, to myself. If they don't like that, they know to find me and I will just move elsewhere with my money. 
Same to 4-5 other friends with equal to higher income. My best guess without bragging is that we in total spend enough to pay 100 Thais 10K baht a month.

It is just all total nonsense. Depending on which narrative you follow (reality or the army in the news), you can conclude it is fine to work like that without WP and conclude that you have to fear life itself for the latter. I mean, they do not even properly handle applications for their Board of Investment lol, fk them then.

It is like I have taken enough beatings to not fear another one or a KO anymore. I like to stay but if they make it more difficult, I am out.
 

Yeah you are totally right, my dream would be to obtain the Thai citizenship and that's why I want to have a work permit and pay taxes here. I satisfy all the social and cultural requirements (family and language) but without 3 years of working here on a minimum salary of 40k they don't even want to consider my application. I don't want to work for somebody else because it would be wasted time and money ( I make 120k a month and nobody can offer me here a job for that amount of money) and I don't even want to go through a very hard process of setting up a company in my name and hiring multiple people doing accounting and pay taxes.

 

I thought there might be a simple way to create a small family business but yeah, they love to make things hard here and being unreasonable. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Lacrimas
adding something

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Lacrimas said:

Yeah you are totally right, my dream would be to obtain the Thai citizenship and that's why I want to have a work permit and pay taxes here. I satisfy all the social and cultural requirements (family and language) but without 3 years of working here on a minimum salary of 40k they don't even want to consider my application.

Exactly. A big reason why I started working here.  Plus getting into the medical-system, so can pay that indendently when I get older, and premiums for private-insurance go through the roof.
 

Quote

I don't want to work for somebody else because it would be wasted time and money ( I make 120k a month and nobody can offer me here a job for that amount of money)

Don't be too sure on that.  Check out what is on offer.  It depends on your specialty, of course.

 

Quote

and I don't even want to go through a very hard process of setting up a company in my name and hiring multiple people doing accounting and pay taxes.

 

I thought there might be a simple way to create a small family business but yeah, they love to make things hard here and being unreasonable. 

"Making things hard" is the many hands out for receiving envelopes.  The corruption is holding Thailand back, big time.  There are fewer hurdles in communist countries.

Edited May 24, 2020 by JackThompson

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, Lacrimas said:

Yeah you are totally right, my dream would be to obtain the Thai citizenship and that's why I want to have a work permit and pay taxes here. I satisfy all the social and cultural requirements (family and language) but without 3 years of working here on a minimum salary of 40k they don't even want to consider my application. I don't want to work for somebody else because it would be wasted time and money ( I make 120k a month and nobody can offer me here a job for that amount of money) and I don't even want to go through a very hard process of setting up a company in my name and hiring multiple people doing accounting and pay taxes.

 

I thought there might be a simple way to create a small family business but yeah, they love to make things hard here and being unreasonable. 

Depending on your speciality, you might be able to sort something out with a Thai employer. Some of the big multinationals pay expat specialists well over 120k. Assuming you do not qualify for this (admittedly small) pool of plum jobs, there is a chance you could work something out with a Thai Chinese company. They can usually understand a good opportunity when they hear one. You could offer them a few hours of free consulting, and in return have them put you on their books as a part time employee. You would cover the salary (and tax on the salary) so they actually even end up with you as a tax deductible item without it costing them anything other than some paperwork. This would be way cheaper and simpler than setting up your own business. The challenge is researching and finding the right companies to approach. Of course, you would stay with your current overseas employer.

[DanangBanaHills57]

20 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

Wasn't there a possibility to open a representative office of foreign company? I think it had no Thai employees requirement but the documentation from foreign company was required and it was time limited, I think 1 or 2 years max? But that's a long time ago, maybe no longer exists...

Yes it does......

 

[Lacrimas]

I talked to a lawyer and he told me that in case you declare you want to help your wife in her business 2 employees are not required and they can issue a work permit for that. Seems there's hope but I will need to investigate further. 

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Lacrimas said:

I talked to a lawyer and he told me that in case you declare you want to help your wife in her business 2 employees are not required and they can issue a work permit for that. Seems there's hope but I will need to investigate further. 

The lawyer's "fee" may be part of that arrangement.  But, in general, the particular labor-office makes the call.

[ExpatDraco]

On 5/24/2020 at 12:11 PM, JackThompson said:

That's essentially using a "fake" employee.  I would not recommend going down that road, though may undoubtedly do.

 

The Smart Visa idea could work for the OP, though - could be a good fit.  I didn't know the min-pay was 100K - thought it was 200K.  I need to look into this for my own situation.

 

They lowered it to 100k but afaik you need to be employed by a Thai company that pays you the 100k salary? I think for any decent DN a salary of 100k wouldn't be the problem, it's the Thai company that's the problem.