Non-O Retirement Renewal: Stuck outside Thailand

[Garuda5]

Well...due to the 05 March restrictions, and subsequent restricting international flight arrivals, I stuck i the U.S. My long-stay expired in the middle of March. Any members have and information if there are rules and policies in place with Thailand Immigration for an automatic extension (as for those stuck inside Thailand)? Thanks.

[Malawi]

No idea what you actually had but I think you will have to start all over again.

[hotandsticky]

The amnesty/extension does not apply to extensions.

 

 

Starting over will be required.

[ubonjoe]

Your extension of stay is lost and you will have to start all over again.

You could enter visa exempt or with a tourist visa and then apply for a non immigrant visa (category O) at immitgration and then a new extension.

Or you could apply for OA long stay visa at the embassy in Washington DC or one of the 3 official consulates.

See: https://thaiembdc.org/consular-services/non-immigrant-visas/non-immigrant-category-oa/

[kbb]

My retirement extension is due June 1st. 

Tripping over routine issues due to corona related travel problems.

 

Now looking at the Elite Visa (again!). 

 

Here's what they are telling me

 

" ...

You are still eligible but we can’t get you the visa by June 1.

Processing time is more like 3 to 4 weeks but if you send me the application form today, I’ll see what I can do to make it as fast as possible.

Thai Immigration shouldn’t count this as overstay since all visas for foreigners are extended until July 30.

..."

 

 

The kicker for me was that the insurance went up due to inflation and extra health related charges, So saving the $50k Baht a year for junk insurance makes more sense.

 

Back to the point of this posting -- The July 30th extension is a legitimate question.

And as usual with these types of things, I won't be sure who or what to believe until I've either experienced it firsthand or met someone who has. 

 

 

 

[natway09]

You believe what you want then, but I am sure if you are outside the country & visa has expired better listen to Ubon Joe

[ubonjoe]

29 minutes ago, kbb said:

Back to the point of this posting -- The July 30th extension is a legitimate question.

And as usual with these types of things, I won't be sure who or what to believe until I've either experienced it firsthand or met someone who has. 

The allowed stay until July 31st is for real and has been posted on the immigration website more than once.

There will certainly not be an overstay charged.

See: https://immigration.go.th/content/extend_alien?click=1

[crazykopite]

I had a visit from suratthani immigration two weeks ago 3 officers all with uniforms on and ID cards they asked me for my passport they noted I had a 90 day renewal 6 June and told me I was okay until 31 July they then noted my extension of stay ( retirement ) ended last week of June and told me a I was also good until 31 July the one that looked like the boss gave me his name and telephone number and I gave him mine he told me any problems at Samui IO to get them to ring hi I live on the island of Koh Phangan. I also explained that my wife was on the same visa as my dependent but was stuck in the U.K. until flights resume back to Thailand unfortunately they said they could not offer advice accept that when she came back we would have to go to the IO in Samui and see what they recommend.

[HarrySeaman]

If you apply for a retirement visa outside of Thailand you are given a Non-OA visa.  The Non-OA visa requires you to have health insurance, which is very expensive to buy inside Thailand.  You can find the notice of this requirement and a list of acceptable Thai insurance companies here:

 

https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

If you don't have the insurance from a company in the USA which will cover you for as long as you are in Thailand then don't apply for a visa in the USA.  If you have health and accident insurance from a company in the USA which will cover you for as long as you are in Thailand you can apply for a Thai retirement visa while you are in the USA, but I don't recommend doing so. 

 

Wait until you enter on a 30 day visa free entry then a couple of days later go to immigration and apply for a retirement visa.  Retirement visas issued in Thailand are Non-O visas, which do not have the odious health coverage requirement.

 

You won't be issued the new visa before the 30 days runs out but you will be allowed to pay 1900 Bt for a 30 day extension to give Thai Immigration long enough to consider whether or not to give you the visa.  You will be issued the new Non-O retirement visa just before the extension runs out. 

 

The only potential problem is the requirement for you having 800,000 Bt untouched in a Thai bank account for 2 months before the visa is issued and 3 months after.  If you already have this then it isn't a problem.  If not you may have to get a 60 day extension (or two 30 day extensions) before the visa is issued.

 

The next year if you renew your Non-O visa you will have to have the untouched 800, 000 Bt in the bank 3 months before and 3 months after the visa is renewed.

Edited May 25, 2020 by ubonjoe
changed broken link

[lopburi3]

12 minutes ago, HarrySeaman said:

The only potential problem is the requirement for you having 800,000 Bt untouched in a Thai bank account for 2 months before the visa is issued and 3 months after.  If you already have this then it isn't a problem.  If not you may have to get a 60 day extension (or two 30 day extensions) before the visa is issued.

 

The next year if you renew your Non-O visa you will have to have the untouched 800, 000 Bt in the bank 3 months before and 3 months after the visa is renewed.

There is no time requirement for obtaining conversion to non immigrant O visa and that allows a 90 day stay before it has to be extended which will require 2 months in account.

 

The requirement if using bank deposit for any one year extension of retirement is two months in account prior to extension and at least 3 months after at or above the 800k level - at other time at or above 400k

[Ken126]

2 hours ago, HarrySeaman said:

If you apply for a retirement visa outside of Thailand you are given a Non-OA visa.  The Non-OA visa requires you to have health insurance, which is very expensive to buy inside Thailand.  You can find the notice of this requirement and a list of acceptable Thai insurance companies here:

 

https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

If you don't have the insurance from a company in the USA which will cover you for as long as you are in Thailand then don't apply for a visa in the USA.  If you have health and accident insurance from a company in the USA which will cover you for as long as you are in Thailand you can apply for a Thai retirement visa while you are in the USA, but I don't recommend doing so. 

 

Wait until you enter on a 30 day visa free entry then a couple of days later go to immigration and apply for a retirement visa.  Retirement visas issued in Thailand are Non-O visas, which do not have the odious health coverage requirement.

 

You won't be issued the new visa before the 30 days runs out but you will be allowed to pay 1900 Bt for a 30 day extension to give Thai Immigration long enough to consider whether or not to give you the visa.  You will be issued the new Non-O retirement visa just before the extension runs out. 

 

The only potential problem is the requirement for you having 800,000 Bt untouched in a Thai bank account for 2 months before the visa is issued and 3 months after.  If you already have this then it isn't a problem.  If not you may have to get a 60 day extension (or two 30 day extensions) before the visa is issued.

 

The next year if you renew your Non-O visa you will have to have the untouched 800, 000 Bt in the bank 3 months before and 3 months after the visa is renewed.

 

[Ken126]

Does marriage to Thai where 400,000 is required apply the same as a retirement visa with 800,000 requirement as you describe here?

[lopburi3]

8 minutes ago, Ken126 said:

Does marriage to Thai where 400,000 is required apply the same as a retirement visa with 800,000 requirement as you describe here?

The requirement is 400k or more in bank account for 2 months prior to application (and at some locations keeping it at that level for the one month under review period).  

[Max69xl]

14 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

The amnesty/extension does not apply to extensions.

 

 

Starting over will be required.

The correct answer is: The amnesty doesn't cover anyone outside Thailand. 

[timendres]

6 hours ago, crazykopite said:

I had a visit from suratthani immigration two weeks ago 3 officers all with uniforms on and ID cards they asked me for my passport they noted I had a 90 day renewal 6 June and told me I was okay until 31 July they then noted my extension of stay ( retirement ) ended last week of June and told me a I was also good until 31 July the one that looked like the boss gave me his name and telephone number and I gave him mine he told me any problems at Samui IO to get them to ring hi I live on the island of Koh Phangan. I also explained that my wife was on the same visa as my dependent but was stuck in the U.K. until flights resume back to Thailand unfortunately they said they could not offer advice accept that when she came back we would have to go to the IO in Samui and see what they recommend.

I suspect that what you were told is wrong. You should contact an immigration officer at the Samui office and confirm this information. I am on an extension that expired on April 17 and was told this was not covered by the amnesty program, and renewing the extension was definitely required.

[eppic]

8 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

There is no time requirement for obtaining conversion to non immigrant O visa and that allows a 90 day stay before it has to be extended which will require 2 months in account.

 

The requirement if using bank deposit for any one year extension of retirement is two months in account prior to extension and at least 3 months after at or above the 800k level - at other time at or above 400k

Just to confirm this, would it be possible to stay a total of 5 months before needing to deposit the bt 800k?

 

For example, 30 day exempt + 30 day extension + 90 day non-O conversion?

 

The reason I ask, we had intended to relocate to Philippines in March and I let my Thailand retirement extension lapse, but because of the Covid situation in Manila (and potential impact on schools) we may wish to delay our departure until the end of the year (after end of fall school semester).

 

So, again, in theory, assuming Chaengwattana paperwork, would the 5 months be possible? (I really don't want to move money into Thailand if it can be avoided).  

[Peter Denis]

5 hours ago, eppic said:

Just to confirm this, would it be possible to stay a total of 5 months before needing to deposit the bt 800k?

For example, 30 day exempt + 30 day extension + 90 day non-O conversion?

The example you give is not possible.  You would be required to show proof of 800K (foreign origins proven) in your personal thai bank-account when you apply for the 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa.

In the last month of that 90 days you can apply for the 1-year extension of stay, so the 800K has stayed during those 2 months on your personal thai bank-account (thus meeting the 2-month seasoning requirement for the 1-year extension).

Also please note:

- Your present permission to stay is automatically extended till 31 July;

- Once the borders are open you can do a border-run and either return VisaExempt which will provide you a 30-day permission to stay (which can be extended with another 30 days), or you can apply for a 60-day SingleEntry Tourist Visa at a thai embassy/consulate in a neighboring country, and that 60-day permission to stay can also be extended with 30 days.

- You can then repeat that border-run scenario (2 VisaExempt entries per calendar year are allowed), so it would be no problem to stay till end November when doing 2 VisaExempt entries and extension, or even till end of January when applying twice for a Tourist Visa at a thai embassy/consulate in a neighboring country and extending those Tourist Visa.

- However, be aware that once the borders are open again, it is possible that you might be confronted with quarantaine measures or covid-insurance requirements when crossing the border of the neighboring country and Thailand.

-

[Peter Denis]

On 5/25/2020 at 2:32 AM, ubonjoe said:

Your extension of stay is lost and you will have to start all over again.

You could enter visa exempt or with a tourist visa and then apply for a non immigrant visa (category O) at immitgration and then a new extension.

Or you could apply for OA long stay visa at the embassy in Washington DC or one of the 3 official consulates.

See: https://thaiembdc.org/consular-services/non-immigrant-visas/non-immigrant-category-oa/

@Garuda5 > I will PM you a comprehensive guideline document outlining all options/details to apply for a Non Imm O (or O-A) Visa.

To access your PM-messages just click the letter-icon next to your Profile when logged-in to the Forum.

[Peter Denis]

17 hours ago, kbb said:

My retirement extension is due June 1st. 

Tripping over routine issues due to corona related travel problems.

 

Now looking at the Elite Visa (again!). 

 

Here's what they are telling me

 

" ...

You are still eligible but we can’t get you the visa by June 1.

Processing time is more like 3 to 4 weeks but if you send me the application form today, I’ll see what I can do to make it as fast as possible.

Thai Immigration shouldn’t count this as overstay since all visas for foreigners are extended until July 30.

..."

 

 

The kicker for me was that the insurance went up due to inflation and extra health related charges, So saving the $50k Baht a year for junk insurance makes more sense.

 

Back to the point of this posting -- The July 30th extension is a legitimate question.

And as usual with these types of things, I won't be sure who or what to believe until I've either experienced it firsthand or met someone who has. 

 

Better read this thread - starting from post #26 - with the experience of @AlfHuyfirst, before switching to a Thai EliteVisa >

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1160066-thai-elite-visa-experience/?do=findComment&comment=15432623

 

[Peter Denis]

17 hours ago, kbb said:

...

The kicker for me was that the insurance went up due to inflation and extra health related charges, So saving the $50k Baht a year for junk insurance makes more sense.

...

The mandatory thai IO-approved health-insurance when applying for a 1-year extension of your Non Imm O-A Visa for reason of retirement, is indeed a total scam.

But since early March 2020 finally an affordable thai IO-approved health-insurance policy is on offer. LMG Insurance provides such a policy (Plan 1 with a 200K deductible) for people in the age-bracket 51-75 for a first-year premium of 6.000 THB to 11.400 THB.

Content-wise that policy is totally worthless, but it can be used to meet the health-insurance requirement when applying for an O-A extension of stay. 

Obviously there are other ways of avoiding that bogus health-insurance scam, but that requires doing a border-run which is as good as impossible at the moment.

>> I PM-ed you a comprehensive guideline document containing all options/details to convert to or apply for a Non Imm O - retirement Visa which does not require that health-insurance requirement.  The document might prove useful for you once crossing the borders is possible again.

To access your PM-messages just click the letter-icon next to your Profile when logged-in to the Forum.

 

[Peter Denis]

15 hours ago, crazykopite said:

I had a visit from suratthani immigration two weeks ago 3 officers all with uniforms on and ID cards they asked me for my passport they noted I had a 90 day renewal 6 June and told me I was okay until 31 July they then noted my extension of stay ( retirement ) ended last week of June and told me a I was also good until 31 July the one that looked like the boss gave me his name and telephone number and I gave him mine he told me any problems at Samui IO to get them to ring hi I live on the island of Koh Phangan. I also explained that my wife was on the same visa as my dependent but was stuck in the U.K. until flights resume back to Thailand unfortunately they said they could not offer advice accept that when she came back we would have to go to the IO in Samui and see what they recommend.

The immigration officer telling you that you 'are good' till 31 July, is only half of the story.

Yes, you will not be charged over-stay when not applying for your 1-year extension of stay before your end of June permission to stay expires  However, what is not so sure, is whether you will be allowed to extend your 1-year permission to stay after that date.  And that might force you to leave the country and start your application from scratch again. 

It is also possible that some tea-money (15.000 THB) will solve the issue of not having applied before permission to stay expiry-date.  So it is recommended to apply for the 1-year extension before your current End of June permission to stay expires.

[Lost in LOS]

that really sucks getting stuck, such a nightmare and then they screw with your visa too.  wow

[Aussieroaming]

23 hours ago, HarrySeaman said:

If you apply for a retirement visa outside of Thailand you are given a Non-OA visa.  The Non-OA visa requires you to have health insurance, which is very expensive to buy inside Thailand.  You can find the notice of this requirement and a list of acceptable Thai insurance companies here:

 

https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

If you don't have the insurance from a company in the USA which will cover you for as long as you are in Thailand then don't apply for a visa in the USA.  If you have health and accident insurance from a company in the USA which will cover you for as long as you are in Thailand you can apply for a Thai retirement visa while you are in the USA, but I don't recommend doing so. 

 

Wait until you enter on a 30 day visa free entry then a couple of days later go to immigration and apply for a retirement visa.  Retirement visas issued in Thailand are Non-O visas, which do not have the odious health coverage requirement.

 

You won't be issued the new visa before the 30 days runs out but you will be allowed to pay 1900 Bt for a 30 day extension to give Thai Immigration long enough to consider whether or not to give you the visa.  You will be issued the new Non-O retirement visa just before the extension runs out. 

 

The only potential problem is the requirement for you having 800,000 Bt untouched in a Thai bank account for 2 months before the visa is issued and 3 months after.  If you already have this then it isn't a problem.  If not you may have to get a 60 day extension (or two 30 day extensions) before the visa is issued.

 

The next year if you renew your Non-O visa you will have to have the untouched 800, 000 Bt in the bank 3 months before and 3 months after the visa is renewed.

Good advise, except first 2 weeks is in Quarantine. So assuming that a person gets in on a 30 visa, has to quarantine for 2 weeks and then strt the extension process. I'm in the same dillema, as my long stay expires in June.

 

To make issues more interesting not all foreign Thai Embassies are operating during Convid, so getting embassy approval to travel or visa is a more complex challenge and will depend on the staffing of the Thai embassy closest to each traveller.

[smedly]

On 5/25/2020 at 7:24 AM, Malawi said:

No idea what you actually had but I think you will have to start all over again.

since he is out of the country already it is a pretty simple process so no big deal

[smedly]

On 5/25/2020 at 11:50 PM, timendres said:

I suspect that what you were told is wrong. You should contact an immigration officer at the Samui office and confirm this information. I am on an extension that expired on April 17 and was told this was not covered by the amnesty program, and renewing the extension was definitely required.

correct

[smedly]

On 5/26/2020 at 2:03 AM, eppic said:

Just to confirm this, would it be possible to stay a total of 5 months before needing to deposit the bt 800k?

 

For example, 30 day exempt + 30 day extension + 90 day non-O conversion?

 

The reason I ask, we had intended to relocate to Philippines in March and I let my Thailand retirement extension lapse, but because of the Covid situation in Manila (and potential impact on schools) we may wish to delay our departure until the end of the year (after end of fall school semester).

 

So, again, in theory, assuming Chaengwattana paperwork, would the 5 months be possible? (I really don't want to move money into Thailand if it can be avoided).  

in this case it might be convenient to use an agent to get a 12 month extension based on retirement even though you intend to leave, you will not need the financials etc in Thai bank - cost about 20k-25k baht

 

I would advise not giving the agent too many details about why you need it they may see an opportunity to gouge more money - you just need a 12 month extension     

Edited May 26, 2020 by smedly

[Mulambana]

On 5/25/2020 at 3:26 AM, kbb said:

My retirement extension is due June 1st. 

Tripping over routine issues due to corona related travel problems.

 

Now looking at the Elite Visa (again!). 

 

Here's what they are telling me

 

" ...

You are still eligible but we can’t get you the visa by June 1.

Processing time is more like 3 to 4 weeks but if you send me the application form today, I’ll see what I can do to make it as fast as possible.

Thai Immigration shouldn’t count this as overstay since all visas for foreigners are extended until July 30.

..."

 

 

The kicker for me was that the insurance went up due to inflation and extra health related charges, So saving the $50k Baht a year for junk insurance makes more sense.

 

Back to the point of this posting -- The July 30th extension is a legitimate question.

And as usual with these types of things, I won't be sure who or what to believe until I've either experienced it firsthand or met someone who has. 

Spending money on an elite for a person who is eligible for a retirmenet extension is not a wise economic choice unless it is less than 2-3% of your total liquid assets. In worst case, an agent can fix every thing for 15K. That is the most prudent way to take care of the situation if everything else fails.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Mulambana

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

in this case it might be convenient to use an agent to get a 12 month extension based on retirement even though you intend to leave, you will not need the financials etc in Thai bank - cost about 20k-25k baht

 

I would advise not giving the agent too many details about why you need it they may see an opportunity to gouge more money - you just need a 12 month extension     

If leaving anyway, might as well do it in Pattaya/Jomtien for only 12K to 15K agent-cost.  He mentioned the CW office, so might as well spend the difference on a little mini-vacation 1 hr away in Jomtien Beach instead of paying the overpriced Bangkok agent.

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, Mulambana said:

Spending money on an elite is not a wise choice unless it is 1-2% of your asset. IN worst case, an agent can fix every thing for 15K. That is the most prudent way to take care of the situation if everything fails.

He mentioned the insurance, also, so assuming entered on a Non-OA.  But even insurance for this one year, plus the agent-fee (assuming the agent cannot bypass it), is less than the elite - especially considering he can start over next year, and not need insurance on a standard "Non-O" from a visa or conversion. 

 

And if the borders are open anywhere before July 31, w/o a long quarantine, can avoid the insurance entirely, by starting the process over with a fresh Non-O this year.

[eppic]

On 5/26/2020 at 7:41 AM, Peter Denis said:

The example you give is not possible.  You would be required to show proof of 800K (foreign origins proven) in your personal thai bank-account when you apply for the 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa.

In the last month of that 90 days you can apply for the 1-year extension of stay, so the 800K has stayed during those 2 months on your personal thai bank-account (thus meeting the 2-month seasoning requirement for the 1-year extension).

Also please note:

- Your present permission to stay is automatically extended till 31 July;

- Once the borders are open you can do a border-run and either return VisaExempt which will provide you a 30-day permission to stay (which can be extended with another 30 days), or you can apply for a 60-day SingleEntry Tourist Visa at a thai embassy/consulate in a neighboring country, and that 60-day permission to stay can also be extended with 30 days.

- You can then repeat that border-run scenario (2 VisaExempt entries per calendar year are allowed), so it would be no problem to stay till end November when doing 2 VisaExempt entries and extension, or even till end of January when applying twice for a Tourist Visa at a thai embassy/consulate in a neighboring country and extending those Tourist Visa.

- However, be aware that once the borders are open again, it is possible that you might be confronted with quarantaine measures or covid-insurance requirements when crossing the border of the neighboring country and Thailand.

-

Thanks for this, I have a follow-on question related to the two-step process from within Thailand.

 

Any firm information (or educated guesses) if it would still be possible to do a conversion from visa exempt to a non-O for purpose of retirement?  In theory, if the visa exemption has now been extended by decree until 31 July, I could do one or both of the following:

 

a) apply for a 30 day extension, since we did not extend previously (our entry exemption stamp was Apr 6), if this is still allowed.  This would extend us until 30 Aug.

 

b) before August 15 (or July 16 if no additional extension allowed), deposit 800k thb and apply for a conversion to a non-O for purpose of retirement.  This would give us another 90 days (or 75 depending on when the clock starts), for a total of 3-4 months additional time.  If we have no intention to apply for a 1-year extension, I believe I could quickly round trip the 800k baht into and back out of my Thailand bank account. Otherwise, we could keep the money in Thailand just in case we need to change our plans again.

 

Any obvious issues with this approach?  (again, I know we will need to rely on educated guesses).