Is it Thailand visa policy as bad as European people say

[Trolleen]

I have been read a lot of trends and complain about Thailand visa policy. Many angry people complain about that Thailand betray European people . That Thailand choose Chinese.

My opinion is 

1. When corona virus came. Thailand allow many foreigners stay in till 31.07.2020. 

Other countries in Europe do not have that policy. Just example Norway efter look down said that all foreigners have to leave a country in 2 days.

2. Thailand introduce elite visa . Any one who have money can buy it and stay in this country forever.

What about complain?

Chinese tourist very profitable to Thailand. Because the money in numbers. For one European who visit , they visit five. They stay in 4-5 stars hotels and bring the money.

 

[Trolleen]

Furthermore pattaja for around 10 years ago was devastated with European criminals. Who abuse visa policy ,stay here for many months and do nothing goodfor a country. Is it not logical that government clear Pattaja. ??? 

 

[Bob A Kneale]

35 minutes ago, Trolleen said:

1. When corona virus came. Thailand allow many foreigners stay in till 31.07.2020. 

Other countries in Europe do not have that policy. Just example Norway efter look down said that all foreigners have to leave a country in 2 days.

Why does mean that Thailand is acting so badly?

 

35 minutes ago, Trolleen said:

2. Thailand introduce elite visa . Any one who have money can buy it and stay in this country forever.

The Elite visa is not a lifetime visa and it was introduced years ago, it has no connection to the Covid-19 outbreak.   All visas have requirements that have to be met after which they are available to anyone, including the Elite visa.

 

Trolleen, does your country have visa/entry regulations that foreigners have to meet or does it let anyone in regardless of their financial position?

Edited May 25, 2020 by Bob A Kneale

[Trolleen]

Scandinavian country say people have to leave a country in 2 days!!! Thailand allow anyone to stay 31.07.2020.

New Zealand and Australia want you deposit in bank 1.000.000dollar in order to live in the country.

Thailand say pay 20.000.000 baht  then you get visa for 20 years. Cheap!!!! Leave here as long as you wish.

Is it not generous?

[Trolleen]

<removed> Thai bath is high now. But it is good for simple people who want to travel in other countries.

Edited May 25, 2020 by ubonjoe
comment about a removed post removed

[Martyp]

Different countries. Different immigration policies. Whether it is good or bad for you depends on your personal circumstances. The key is to accept that you are in a foreign country and they will probably do things differently and there is nothing you can to about it except maybe vent your frustrations on TVF.

[Trolleen]

If people want to retire in England Sweden Norway they have almost no chance. But they can do in Thailand for very small money. Only 800.000 baht.

What to complain?

[ubonjoe]

Some off topic posts and a reply to them have been removed.

[Bob A Kneale]

19 minutes ago, Trolleen said:

<removed> Thai bath is high now. But it is good for simple people who want to travel in other countries.

"Simple people"?

[JackThompson]

47 minutes ago, Trolleen said:

I have been read a lot of trends and complain about Thailand visa policy. Many angry people complain about that Thailand betray European people . That Thailand choose Chinese.

Yes, and the health minister called us "dirty farangs."  The Govt is pro-CCP.

 

Quote

My opinion is 

1. When corona virus came. Thailand allow many foreigners stay in till 31.07.2020. 

Other countries in Europe do not have that policy. Just example Norway efter look down said that all foreigners have to leave a country in 2 days.

Many flights were cancelled, so many could not leave - hence the extensions of stay.  Under the initial policy, Immigration demanded a letter from their embassy for Tourist-type entries - though the published rules said you did not need one in this case.  

 

They also made these extensions "under consideration" - so you had to attend overcrowded immigration offices TWICE.  Some immigration-offices added yet MORE hurdles, like "bring your landlord" and landlord-documents that are often impossible to obtain.

 

Only after the pictures of huge crowds went viral, did the Thai govt Force Immigration to extend all entries to July 31 - because it was the Height Of Hypocrisy to make group-gatherings illegal, while the Immigration Division was Forcing group-gatherings.

 

Quote

2. Thailand introduce elite visa . Any one who have money can buy it and stay in this country forever.

Thailand offers a "buy a visa" program which gives you, essentially, a glorified Tourist Visa at a price that is completely out of whack to the cost of living in Thailand. 

 

Quote

What about complain?

Chinese tourist very profitable to Thailand. Because the money in numbers. For one European who visit , they visit five. They stay in 4-5 stars hotels and bring the money.

No - the vast majority of Chinese Tourists come on "package tours" and spend their money ONLY at specific "connected" (Chinese owned) businesses, including budget-hotels.  Elsewhere, they jam the streets with tour-buses, and pack the sidewalks with "gawkers" who buy nothing from small businesses.

 

"Budget" Western tourists, by contrast, stay at small guest houses and frequent small businesses, who have a much higher Thai-Employee: Customer ratio.  Entire sois of businesses were boarded up, each time Immigration "cracked down" on Western visitors. 
 

35 minutes ago, Trolleen said:

Furthermore pattaja for around 10 years ago was devastated with European criminals. Who abuse visa policy ,stay here for many months and do nothing goodfor a country. Is it not logical that government clear Pattaja. ???

Immigration has a "good guys in, bad guys out" policy - which means, Pay Us Off with an Agent (which any criminal would), and you are a "good" guy.  But if you do things "by the book" - you are a "bad" guy, who is often put through the ringer.

 

No where is this policy more evident, than the immigration-office serving Pattaya - especially if staying here to support Thai family. 

Edited May 25, 2020 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

21 minutes ago, Trolleen said:

If people want to retire in England Sweden Norway they have almost no chance. But they can do in Thailand for very small money. Only 800.000 baht.

What to complain?

The cost of living there is higher.  What percentage of the Sweede population depends on Tourist / Expat spending to survive? 

 

What percentage are dirt-poor, with opening a small business serving the Tourist/Expat population being one of the few ways out of poverty - especially if you are not young, since Thai businesses are legally permitted to discriminate based on age?

 

How many Westerners immigrate to Thailand - legally or illegally - to get "higher paying jobs" than they could get in their passport-country?

 

It is pointless to make these apples/oranges comparisons. 

[JackThompson]

29 minutes ago, Trolleen said:

Scandinavian country say people have to leave a country in 2 days!!! Thailand allow anyone to stay 31.07.2020.

New Zealand and Australia want you deposit in bank 1.000.000dollar in order to live in the country.

Thailand say pay 20.000.000 baht  then you get visa for 20 years. Cheap!!!! Leave here as long as you wish.

Is it not generous?

Are NZ and Thailand are just the same, other than that the difference in visa-cost?

Charging more for a "visa" than the cost of rent for the same period is insane.

 

The 20M Baht is SPENT, not invested, btw.  As in, light it on fire - it's GONE.  Much better to put 800K in the bank for retirement - but n/a if you are under 50. 

 

All those under 50 w/ good incomes offshore have to spend their money in other countries, instead, thanks to Thailand's "crackdowns" against their spending here.  That's a  Lose-Lose for the expats and the Thai people.

[Traubert]

9 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Yes, and the health minister called us "dirty farangs."  The Govt is pro-CCP.

 

Many flights were cancelled, so many could not leave - hence the extensions of stay.  Under the initial policy, Immigration demanded a letter from their embassy for Tourist-type entries - though the published rules said you did not need one in this case.  

 

They also made these extensions "under consideration" - so you had to attend overcrowded immigration offices TWICE.  Some immigration-offices added yet MORE hurdles, like "bring your landlord" and landlord-documents that are often impossible to obtain.

 

Only after the pictures of huge crowds went viral, did the Thai govt Force Immigration to extend all entries to July 31 - because it was the Height Of Hypocrisy to make group-gatherings illegal, while the Immigration Division was Forcing group-gatherings.

 

Thailand offers a "buy a visa" program which gives you, essentially, a glorified Tourist Visa at a price that is completely out of whack to the cost of living in Thailand. 

 

No - the vast majority of Chinese Tourists come on "package tours" and spend their money ONLY at specific "connected" (Chinese owned) businesses, including budget-hotels.  Elsewhere, they jam the streets with tour-buses, and pack the sidewalks with "gawkers" who buy nothing from small businesses.

 

"Budget" Western tourists, by contrast, stay at small guest houses and frequent small businesses, who have a much higher Thai-Employee: Customer ratio.  Entire sois of businesses were boarded up, each time Immigration "cracked down" on Western visitors. 
 

Immigration has a "good guys in, bad guys out" policy - which means, Pay Us Off with an Agent (which any criminal would), and you are a "good" guy.  But if you do things "by the book" - you are a "bad" guy, who is often put through the ringer.

 

No where is this policy more evident, than the immigration-office serving Pattaya - especially if staying here to support Thai family. 

Every myth in the lexicon there. ????

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Only after the pictures of huge crowds went viral, did the Thai govt Force Immigration to extend all entries to July 31 - because it was the Height Of Hypocrisy to make group-gatherings illegal, while the Immigration Division was Forcing group-gatherings.

Actually it was the reverse. Immigration had to get the government to issue a ministerial notice to allow for the first amnesty in April. And again the cabinet had to approve the extension to July 31st.

[White Christmas13]

46 minutes ago, Trolleen said:

Scandinavian country say people have to leave a country in 2 days!!! Thailand allow anyone to stay 31.07.2020.

New Zealand and Australia want you deposit in bank 1.000.000dollar in order to live in the country.

Thailand say pay 20.000.000 baht  then you get visa for 20 years. Cheap!!!! Leave here as long as you wish.

Is it not generous?

Absolutely nonsense my nephew who is Thai has been in Australia for 7 years

he never paid 1$

[LomSak27]

30 minutes ago, Trolleen said:

Chinese tourist very profitable to Thailand

 

Sadly:

 

2018/19 not good because many chinese not come after Phuket boat disaster, and Don Muang video of tourist beat down.

2019/20 - not so good, no, exceptionally bad as Wuhan virus was brought into Thailand by Chinese tourist. causing lockdown, All tourist had to go and no one could come back. A total loss of a tourist season so far.

2020/21 many believe not auspicious for travel as world & chinese economy recovering from worldwide depression caused by wuhan pandemic. Low volume year.

 

Three not good years for Thailand tourism, which decided eggs in the celestial basket is the way to go. Maybe 2021/22 A winner! Long time to wait. Many business's will not make it. 
 

[JackThompson]

25 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Actually it was the reverse. Immigration had to get the government to issue a ministerial notice to allow for the first amnesty in April. And again the cabinet had to approve the extension to July 31st.

Immigration did not follow the 1st admin-order in practice.  Many here cited it's language in advise to those applying, who were then denied their extensions (no embassy-letter, when none was required per the text). 

 

The 2nd order by the cabinet was what finally shut down Immigration's shenannigans.  We owe thanks to Richard Barrow, for his viral tweets, which helped get that done.

[JackThompson]

41 minutes ago, Traubert said:

Every myth in the lexicon there. ????

Care to address them point-by-point?  We lived through those "myths."  It is not easy to re-write history while those who lived through it are still alive.

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Immigration did not follow the 1st admin-order in practice. 

Immigration issued the first memorandum for the 30 day special extensions. They used an existing clause in the policer order for them.

 

12 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

The 2nd order by the cabinet was what finally shut down Immigration's shenannigans.

The first ministerial notice was approved by the cabinet on April 7th over 2 weeks after immigration sent a letter to the interior ministry requesting something be done.

[Trolleen]

The government do not think about you and me.  It wants to do best for Thai people.

Restriction to buy a land. Why? Because 15 years ago the land cost nothing and majority of Thai have no money. If you let European come and buy they buy all land and leave Thai with nothing.

1. Just go to New Zealand and Australia immigration department and read requirement for retired in those countries.

2. Majority of  European people who comes to Pucket , krabi hua hin  buy a tour group same Chinese do. Chinese  go same European to the markets shops Chinese restaurants and spend a money. They are many and good for Thailand. That's why Thailand chose them because of a numbers.

5 years boy can understand it.

[Trolleen]

Immigration do not deny extension in till you live in Thailand for one year. If you 're 30 years old and have good money from your family you can buy 5 years visa. If you do not like Thailand you can go to Vietnam. What a problem? Thailand do not ask about your job when you buy 5-20years visa. What is a problem? Tell me.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Trolleen said:

The government do not think about you and me.  It wants to do best for Thai people.

Restriction to buy a land. Why? Because 15 years ago the land cost nothing and majority of Thai have no money. If you let European come and buy they buy all land and leave Thai with nothing.

Agree with the restriction on land-sales.  No people should become "tenants of foreigners" in their own country. 

 

Quote

1. Just go to New Zealand and Australia immigration department and read requirement for retired in those countries.

There is no reason to - nothing like Thailand, so not relevant.
 

Quote

2. Majority of  European people who comes to Pucket , krabi hua hin  buy a tour group same Chinese do. Chinese  go same European to the markets shops Chinese restaurants and spend a money. They are many and good for Thailand. That's why Thailand chose them because of a numbers.

5 years boy can understand it.

They support the tour-groups, because a few wealthy Elites with Chinese partners make money from this activity.  Overall, it makes the country less appealing to everyone else (traffic, crowding, etc), from groups who spend little money most places they over-crowd, so tends to do more harm than good to smaller Thai businsseses. 

 

At the same time, making it harder for Westerners to stay here had no bearing on the Chinese tour-groups.  There was no reason to sacrifice one for the other - all downside for Thailand to "crack down" on Westerners staying/spending more.   The only logical reason for this "lose-lose" move, would be defering to the CCP's desire to force all Westerners out of the region, as they turn every nation in the vicinity into their vassal-states.

 

I would encourage anyone who doubts the "average Thai's position" on this to speak to Thais who worked in tourist-serving business - from small business owners to the waitresses and guesthouse guest-clerks.  Ask them which nationalities of customers they preferred, and why. 

 

2 hours ago, Trolleen said:

Thailand do not ask about your job when you buy 5-20years visa. What is a problem? Tell me.

The problem, is that the "Elite" is overpriced relative to the Thai cost of living.  MOST visitors and expats come/stay in Thailand in part due to lower cost of living.  Eliminating 99% of those Western spenders, by "cracking down" on Tourist Visa use, and trying to con them into a rip-off deal, is not good for anyone - not Thais or Expats - just the few making a buck off of the Elite visa.

Edited May 25, 2020 by JackThompson

[uhuh]

8 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

How many Westerners immigrate to Thailand - legally or illegally - to get "higher paying jobs" than they could get in their passport-country?

 

1. Expats on an expat package.  

2. Digital nomads. They avoid taxes and social security,  in a typical European country it's maybe 30% taxes plus 30% social insurance. And, of course,  cost of living in a place like CM is cheaper - so in purchasing power your income is higher. 

3. English teachers, many of whom would be jobless anywhere else in the world. 

4. Rentiers saving taxes (e.g. Swiss)

5. Quite a few people in the hospitality industry. 

 

[KarenBravo]

Only if you're less than fifty, not married to a Thai woman, or, are poor.

[JackThompson]

13 minutes ago, uhuh said:

1. Expats on an expat package.  

2. Digital nomads. They avoid taxes and social security,  in a typical European country it's maybe 30% taxes plus 30% social insurance. And, of course,  cost of living in a place like CM is cheaper - so in purchasing power your income is higher. 

3. English teachers, many of whom would be jobless anywhere else in the world. 

4. Rentiers saving taxes (e.g. Swiss)

5. Quite a few people in the hospitality industry. 

 

English teaching jobs here pay less than the lowest-paid jobs in Western countries, so that doesn't fit.  Yes, they could "mind a counter" at a store back home and earn more.

 

Those working remotely can either spend their income in Thailand, or another country, so much better for Thailand if they spend it here.  Same with rentiers.  They should be at the top of the "welcome wagon" list.

 

Who in hospitality earns more here than in the West?  Do you mean international-corporate managers posted here?  They have B-Visas from their company - same as those on "expat packages."  This small number of foreigners were not affected by the "crackdowns" against Westeners, which shuttered thousands of Thai businesses.

 

 

[BritTim]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

English teaching jobs here pay less than the lowest-paid jobs in Western countries, so that doesn't fit.  Yes, they could "mind a counter" at a store back home and earn more.

There is one factor that is important to take into account. The cost of living in Thailand is far lower than in the Western world. You would have a pretty miserable life in, say, New York on $1,000 a month. In Thailand, you are certainly not living the high life on such an income, but can be perfectly comfortable if living responsibly.

[JackThompson]

9 hours ago, BritTim said:

There is one factor that is important to take into account. The cost of living in Thailand is far lower than in the Western world. You would have a pretty miserable life in, say, New York on $1,000 a month. In Thailand, you are certainly not living the high life on such an income, but can be perfectly comfortable if living responsibly.

That is true, but NYC jobs do not pay the national min-wage, so even after expenses, you can save more per-month if living frugally there.

The exception-case are those working online, who make the same regardless of where they live.  For them, Thailand offers a good balance of civilization + low-overhead.  This group of people is a Billion-Dollar ball laying on the field, getting fatter by the day as more switch to remote-work.  The Thai authorities not only refuse to pick it up and cash it in, but actively-block that income being spent here with 'crackdowns'.

[uhuh]

I was talking about those English teachers in Thailand that would not be able to find ANY job at home. Not even minding a counter 

[Pattaya46]

On 5/25/2020 at 7:46 AM, Trolleen said:

If people want to retire in England Sweden Norway they have almost no chance.

But they can do in Thailand for very small money. Only 800.000 baht.

What to complain?

Even less than that to complain about: the OP is talking about Europeans, and they don't need these 800'000B in a Thai bank. They just need a letter from their Embassy,.

Yearly renewal for European retirees in Thailand must be one of easiest to get in the World. ????

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, uhuh said:

I was talking about those English teachers in Thailand that would not be able to find ANY job at home. Not even minding a counter 

Just joking, then?  You need a Bachelors Degree to begin teaching English here.  Showing up for work is required for either job.  Modern cash-registers calculate change for the "math challenged."