Under the Emergency Decree can a tourist, be turned into Retirement Visa

[Dillpickles98]

Hello guy & ladies, asking for a buddy, though I am pretty sure the visa extension he got, under the Emergency Decree can not be turned into a retirement visa, though he meets all other requirements. A Swiss national, I think he would have to return to Switzerland, to obtain a 2 month visa, from his home country, then begin the process for a retirement visa, once back in Thailand.

 

Anyone know for sure if this would be best for him, or are there other options, he could get around returning to Switzerland, only to turn around and come back?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

DO.   

[ubonjoe]

Is he on an extension issued by immigration or the amnesty until July 31st.

Some office have refused to accept the application for a non immigrant visa one when under the amnesty.

The requirements for the application is here. https://division1.immigration.go.th/download/1551323081128.pdf

If he can qualify for one he should check with his local immigration office about doing it.

If they will not do it and the borders open in July he could do a border hop for a 30 day visa exempt entry or apply for a tourist visa to do the change.

[JohnBZ]

Yes.  You can.  i know a Pattaya agent who is in that business.  She charges 22 to 25000 baht depending on you you wan a single entry or multiple entry retirement visa.  Please note that one need at least 15 to 20 days before the visa expiration date.

[Dillpickles98]

HI JohnBZ, thanks for that info, could you supply a name? I think he is good until July 31, if all else fails, he has a flight booked on June 27TH 

 

DP.

[Dillpickles98]

Thanks udonjoe your replies are always helpful.

 

DP.

[Bender Rodriguez]

19 hours ago, JohnBZ said:

Yes.  You can.  i know a Pattaya agent who is in that business.  She charges 22 to 25000 baht depending on you you wan a single entry or multiple entry retirement visa.  Please note that one need at least 15 to 20 days before the visa expiration date.

and how can they do the magic you cannot get for 1900 baht at immigration ?

 

sticky fingers policy ?

[Peter Denis]

For sure there would be no reason for him to return to Switzerland.

If he meets the requirements but is refused a 90-day Non Imm O Visa at his local IO, there are only 2 reasons why that could be the case:

- the permission to stay from his current Visa-entry has expired, and his local IO does not want to provide a Non Imm O Visa during the Amnesty;

- he is on a different type Visa (e.g. Non Imm O-A) and the permission to stay of that Visa has not expired yet.

In both cases a simple border-run and returning VisaExempt would solve the issue.

So once the borders are open again he could do this (but he might be confronted with quarantaine-measures or covid-insurance requirements once the borders open again).

[Max69xl]

20 hours ago, Dillpickles98 said:

HI JohnBZ, thanks for that info, could you supply a name? I think he is good until July 31, if all else fails, he has a flight booked on June 27TH 

 

DP.

There's no need to pay 22-25k to an agent. The procedure is quite easy as long as you meet the official requirements. 

[Dillpickles98]

Thanks guys for all your info, and reply's, as in my first post my buddy is from Switzerland, though coming here for many years, he has now decided to retire. Things have changed since I got my first Married 'O' visa ten years ago. enfact they change every year. I have never been able to complete the next years visa extension in just one trip to Jomtien Imm.

 

So, I have given him all your info, now it's up to him as to which way he decides to go, and suggested he join the forum.

 

Your time is appreciated. Thanks

I guess we could consider this Thread closed.

 

DP.   

[from the home of CC]

13 minutes ago, Dillpickles98 said:

Thanks guys for all your info, and reply's, as in my first post my buddy is from Switzerland, though coming here for many years, he has now decided to retire. Things have changed since I got my first Married 'O' visa ten years ago. enfact they change every year. I have never been able to complete the next years visa extension in just one trip to Jomtien Imm.

 

So, I have given him all your info, now it's up to him as to which way he decides to go, and suggested he join the forum.

 

Your time is appreciated. Thanks

I guess we could consider this Thread closed.

 

DP.   

my extension procedure for reasons of marriage hasn't changed since 2003 and it has only taken me a few hours every time (though you do have to pick it up a month later)

[Dillpickles98]

Hi From the home of CC, Well they have only been minor things just to harass us. like they wanted a photo of my homeowner in front the house with us in the photo pointing to the address. the next year they wanted the same photo of homeowner with her holding her Thai I.D. card. 

 

Last year was the worst. mind you I have been seeing the same agent for the past 9 yrs. My visa extension always expired August 25. That was the first year they stopped income statement. So in April 2019 I started monthly deposits from my retirement, and Soc.Sec. well above the married 'O' limit. I had tried to stay below having $10,000 USD in a Thai bank so as not having to file the FBAR with Homeland Security. The reporting of $10,000 in a foreign bank.

 

The same I.O would only look at my soc.sec. documents which is not enough, she wouldn't even look at a years worth of retirement statements, or the monthly deposits made in our bank books. We have four accounts, Soc.Sec which was deposit only, my account, her account, and a joint account. I burn out my printer. printing out the deposits made in the 4 accounts. I had the monthly deposits going to our joint account, so my wife of 16 yrs. had access to it. They said the $$$ is only half yours, you must have it in your personal account. So I moved right there in the office at Desk 6, but then they said it wasn't enough, since they refused to allow me to prove I met the required income by my retirement statements, and bank deposits . This was after two trips to the bank for verification. 

 

They said come back with 400,000 THB in your personal account. 2 days after my visa expired I had the $$$ in the bank. But now I was 2 days overstay, paid the overstay fee. Then given a 1 month extension to Sept 25. Went back at the 1 month extension date, then I was given a 60 day extension, as they said to prove the $$$ was indeed mine. That moved my visa extension anniversary date from 25 August to 25 Oct. Went back on 25 Oct. with the bank latter, and all required documents. 

 

They said the 60 day extension was from 27 Sept to 27 Oct 27. which takes precedence over the visa anniversary date, come back on 27 Oct., which made me 2 days overstay again. Paid that fee, and the visa fee again. Finally stamped 25 Oct. 2020. 

They said to prove your monthly income you must have a letter from your former employer, signed by an officer of that employ. Well I'm a retired airport police officer, a letter from Los Angeles City Employee's Retirement Sys. may have been possible, but why bother since I had the funds anyway.

 

So now I just keep 1 million THB in my personal account to avoid this headache in the future.

 

DP.      

[Peter Denis]

13 minutes ago, Dillpickles98 said:

Hi From the home of CC, Well they have only been minor things just to harass us. 

....   

Wow, you have the patience of a saint to put up with this (even though they indeed followed the procedures/requirements).

[Dillpickles98]

Hi Peter Thank you, that incident of last year was only one of several with this I.O. She also sent the Imm. police to our home, who wanted my sponsor there, with his I.D. and his house registration. As it turned out they spoke better English than they do at the office. Since we live in a housing complex with many farangs, with kids & families it was a routine visit. 

 

Our first yr. at this address the homeowner was out of country, her sister made a mistake on our lease, she wrote Moo 10, instead of Moo 5, and could not find the correct Tom Boon for the owner. This I.O threaten to send Imm. police then. All it took was a change to Moo 5, and her initial to correct that. 

 

In 9 yrs. I never spoke a word, surprised her to find I speak Thai, and learned 40 yrs ago. She handed me off to the next higher up. Who suggested why don't we just come back in 2 moths. I said why do you want to destroy of our family? 20 days overstay would have me deported. I said I need some kind of stamp to make my stay legal until I can comply with what you want. I now have the 400,000 plus in the bank. what else is up to you. The rest of that episode is as stated before. 

 

If you live in Pattaya and use Jomtiem Imm. you'll notice there is never anyone waiting at desk 6, because she is always sending people home. She didn't like my TM 7, filled out with Adobe Reader so she sent outside to complete it all by hand, first time for that.  I start working on the next years visa extension as soon as I get the current one. So now I have the TM 7, in my own hand witting, lacking only the date & signature. 

 

Guys ask why I go though this every year, why not just get a retirement visa? My wife gets survivor benefits for the rest of her life, I want to be sure she gets it. All too often farang die, without providing for their wives, then what happen to them?

 

Now we have Navy Federal Credit Union, we can call and have funds here in 4 hrs. they serve 8 million active duty, retried, veterans & DOD. Even Thai translators on duty 24/7. So that issue is solved.

I would suggest to anyone who is a veteran to take a look at Navy Federal.

 

DP.    

  

[Peter Denis]

31 minutes ago, Dillpickles98 said:

...

Guys ask why I go though this every year, why not just get a retirement visa? My wife gets survivor benefits for the rest of her life, I want to be sure she gets it. All too often farang die, without providing for their wives, then what happen to them?

... 

Wow again.

The abuse of power and pettiness of this Immigration officer are stunning.

I am a staunch believer in Karma, so it is sad but somewhat of a consolation that she will get what she sows.  Actually she is experiencing it already at this very moment, because you cannot be a happy person with such attitude.

= = =

On a 'technical' note > It is not because you are married to your thai wife, that you need to apply for the 1-year extension for reason of marriage.  If you are 50+ years of age you can also apply for the 1-year extension for reason of retirement.  The financial requirements are way higher (you need to provide evidence of 800K on a personal thai bank-account during the first 3 and last 2 months of the year preceding your application, and 400K during the intermediate 7 months).  But as you mentioned having 1M in the bank, that should be no problem.  And of course you are not subject to all the hoops and admin BS that a marriage extension requires.

So with the Monster Officer in your IO, it might be worthwhile to switch to a retirement extension instead of having to go through this ordeal every year.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Peter Denis

[Dillpickles98]

Hi Pete, in no less than 30 visits to this I.O.  in 10 yrs. The fasted I ever did it was in 2 days with 3 visits. I have yet to see her smile even once. I too am a believer in Karma, and I know she is a miserable person with her life. Years ago she said since my 90 day report was only a few day before my visa extension was due, to ask her for new requirements. Never did because I knew she would find something else, That's O.K. a few days out of a year I have this aggravation, a small price to pay, since my dream since 1980 was to retire here, when I was working expat overseas. Took a little longer than expected, but we made it, the wife spent 6 yrs. in the U.S.. Had to surrender her Green Card for a 10 yr tourist visa, but there is nothing to go back to.  

 

Yes, I know the difference between married 'O' and retirement. We did it not because of the $$$, but because I wanted to make sure our marriage was legal both here, and in the U.S. Enfact even if I wanted to, I could not get a retirement visa now, unless I could provide deviorce paperwork. I have even read here on the forum guys who went that route for whatever reasons, not only lost everything, but paid 500,000 THB in legal fee's. Others I know not married owns the home, their mate owns the land, but has a 99 yrs. lease, so they can never be put on the street, and of course there are other ways of owning property.

 

My wife comes from a good family, not to say a good family is any better than a poor one. Her parents retired, 5 sisters, all doing well even with this pandemic. Have never had a sick buffalo, or a broken motorbike. When they come here, they bring everything with them, buy food even bring me a bottle of my favorite whiskey. 

 

Life is good, stay safe. 

 

DP.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Dillpickles98

[smedly]

On 5/25/2020 at 1:53 PM, Dillpickles98 said:

HI JohnBZ, thanks for that info, could you supply a name? I think he is good until July 31, if all else fails, he has a flight booked on June 27TH 

 

DP.

if he meets all the financial etc then it will not cost 22k if doing through an agent, they charge that sort of money for those that don't meet the requirements, if he meets the financials then "for doing the donkey work" the agent fee would be more like 5kbaht

[smedly]

17 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

For sure there would be no reason for him to return to Switzerland.

If he meets the requirements but is refused a 90-day Non Imm O Visa at his local IO, there are only 2 reasons why that could be the case:

- the permission to stay from his current Visa-entry has expired, and his local IO does not want to provide a Non Imm O Visa during the Amnesty;

- he is on a different type Visa (e.g. Non Imm O-A) and the permission to stay of that Visa has not expired yet.

In both cases a simple border-run and returning VisaExempt would solve the issue.

So once the borders are open again he could do this (but he might be confronted with quarantaine-measures or covid-insurance requirements once the borders open again).

I thought udonjoe just answered his question, why did you repeat the answer

[Peter Denis]

5 hours ago, smedly said:

I thought udonjoe just answered his question, why did you repeat the answer

Yes, UbonJoe's response was correct (as always).  But I did not just repeat it, but provided some additional info of possible relevance.

[ubonjoe]

A baiting post has been removed.

[Dillpickles98]

Hi Guys,  just to put all other situations to bed, he is here on a two month tourist visa. His stay extended by the Emergency Decree, or amnesty until July 31. As his tourist visa fell between the dates specified. It was still valid after March 27TH. I read somewhere after July 31, normal processing  would resume, that there may be a way to change the visa type, excluding all yearly extensions currently valid, which were to be processed as usual by their due dates.

 

He has since decided to find an agency, pay whatever fee, and avoid a visa run, finding the Thai Consulate / Embassy, and the two day stay in Phnom Penh, or whatever is necessary. Then having to deal with Immigration again here. He has no experience with visa runs, though travels around South East Asia. Always and only by what's given for entry to whatever country he visits.

 

With that being said, I think to all who replied their knowledge would be useful to others. who are experiencing other problems, or seeking answers to questions of which you may be of assistance.

 

Thanks

DP.  

 

   

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, Dillpickles98 said:

Hi Guys,  just to put all other situations to bed, he is here on a two month tourist visa. His stay extended by the Emergency Decree, or amnesty until July 31. As his tourist visa fell between the dates specified. It was still valid after March 27TH. I read somewhere after July 31, normal processing  would resume, that there may be a way to change the visa type, excluding all yearly extensions currently valid, which were to be processed as usual by their due dates.

 

He has since decided to find an agency, pay whatever fee, and avoid a visa run, finding the Thai Consulate / Embassy, and the two day stay in Phnom Penh, or whatever is necessary. Then having to deal with Immigration again here. He has no experience with visa runs, though travels around South East Asia. Always and only by what's given for entry to whatever country he visits.

 

With that being said, I think to all who replied their knowledge would be useful to others. who are experiencing other problems, or seeking answers to questions of which you may be of assistance.

 

Thanks

DP. 

Hi DP,

Thanks for the clarification as well as your positive messages in this thread.  Appreciated!

So your friend is here on a Tourist Visa of which the permission to stay has expired but due to the Amnesty has been automatically extended till 31 July.

There is no reason for him to fly back to his home-country at the end of the Amnesty, when he would rather stay in Thailand.

And actually there is also no reason to make use of an agent to fix him a Visa, as his is a very simple case.

He only needs to do a border-run once the borders are open again and re-enter VisaExempt (without a Visa).  A border-run only involves crossing the border and coming back, and can be done in less than 1 hour.  It involves: getting stamped out by thai border-immigration, then getting an entry-stamp of the country you exited to (can involve buying a Visa on-the-spot), getting stamped out-again from that country, and when re-entering Thailand you will be stamped in VisaExempt with a permission to stay for 30 days.

Instead of making use of a land-border crossing to do his border-run, he can also opt for a same-day go-and-return flight (e.g. to Singapore or another cheap go-and-return destination from a thai international airport, typically that could be done for a flight-fare of approx 2.000 THB).

But indeed it is possible that once the borders are open again, he could be confronted with quarantaine-measures on arrival or with a mandatory covid-insurance (not expensive), so that has to be checked in advance.

Once your friend has re-entered Thailand VisaExempt, he can then apply for the 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa at he local IO of the place where he wants to stay.  This has to be done 15 (some IOs require 21) days before his permission to stay expires.  Obviously he would also need to meet the financial requirements when applying for that Visa. 

In the last month of that 90-day Visa, he could then apply for the 1-year extension based on that Visa at the same local IO.

>> I tried to PM you a comprehensive guideline document outlining all options/details to apply for such a Non Imm O - retirement Visa.

But it seems your TVF-account does not allow me to send you a message.

If you PM me, I can send it to the e-mail address you provide me.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Peter Denis

[Dillpickles98]

Hi Peter, I really do appreciate the effort, and time you took for these details. My buddy tourist visa is still valid until June 30. Currently booked for a flight June 27. It was a snap decision to retire now. He's a master dive instructor working mostly out of Malta, with a following of divers who met him there, in the Maldives, P.I. & Marshal island etc. His business is now wiped out due to this covit-19.  But he is afraid way to complicated for him. I was just trying to do the right thing by him as my info is old. He much better off finding an agent who can do it all for him, pay the $$$ and not have to go anywhere. Or maybe he might have to make a run to Siem Reap. Whatever the case an agent can arrange everything for him. if I was younger, and not married I'd lead him by the hand. He is also handicapped by not speaking any Thai, and English being his second language. 

 

In the 80's we used to go as a group to Penang, by train & ferry before there was even a border crossing at Siem Reap. With a little savvy we could milk a 2 month tourist visa to about 8 months, with only overnight visa runs. Immigration in those days was behind Sailor Bar, Soi 7, only 3-5 I.O.'s then. Pattaya Police was less then 10 officers. Everytime after the first time in Thailand in 1980 I overstayed, but less than 10 days, if more than 10 days late, I would have lost my employe during my expat days. They would put me in an interrogation room, give me a legal pad, and demand I write a 3 page apology to the King. They couldn't read English so it didn't matter what I wrote.

 

I'm afraid his mind is made up now, so no one can help him, but an agent. So we are whipping a dead horse now.

 

I have since turn on messenger. 

 

Thanks again.

 

DP.     

[BangkokReady]

On 5/25/2020 at 1:15 PM, ubonjoe said:

If they will not do it and the borders open in July he could do a border hop for a 30 day visa exempt entry or apply for a tourist visa to do the change.

Hi.  I'm really hoping that immigration see the light and realise that it's very necessary that they allow people to go from visa amnesty to new visa.  But I also realise that this is quite unlikely.

 

Obviously the next thing to hope for is some sort of supervised border hop without any requirements for covid insurance or quarantine.  I realise that this may also be wishful thinking.

 

Do you really think they will allow border hops at all, even with quarantine, covid insurance, hospital tests etc? Or will they keep the borders closed and continue to only allow foreigners with work permits in?

 

I can imagine them going either way.  Realising that there are people who desperately need a quick "out and in" to get onto a different visa and allowing this without too much hassle, or keeping the place locked down and really not giving a monkey's about foreigners even when they might be an obviously benefit to Thailand such as a teacher or other worker.

[Dillpickles98]

Hi Bangkok Ready, Thinking there is no way to speculate. The last few cases came from outside Thailand, either Thais repatriating, or migrant workers. Given that border countries do little to support the Thai economy, except with migrant workers, there really is no justifiable reason to open the borders when there is still a threat to the Kingdom.

 

Expat residents don't even come into the picture, and definitely last on the list of priorities for making it easy to go out, and back in, for the purpose of visas to a neighboring country. 250,000 expats mean little to the Kingdom of 65 million. They may make some conditions, but not until there is no threat of further contaminations from the outside.

 

Just my thoughts. 

 

DP.    

[unheard]

1 hour ago, Dillpickles98 said:

there really is no justifiable reason to open the borders when there is still a threat to the Kingdom.

 

Expat residents don't even come into the picture,

In my view it's not how they think.

The threat of the virus won't go away, at least not in the near term.

But the economy and the poor will continue to suffer immensely and the situation will only get more desperate in the coming months if the border lock downs continue.

By August there should be numerous countries allowing foreign tourism with restrictions.

I expect Thailand to follow the trend.

 

[Peter Denis]

11 hours ago, Dillpickles98 said:

...

I have since turn on messenger. 

,,,

Hi DP,

I did sent you the comprehensive guideline document outlining all options/details to apply for a Non Imm O - retirement Visa.  Even though your friend has made up his mind going the agent route, the document might be useful for him or yourself.

I also did sent you some info on the 1-year MultipleEntry Non Imm O - marriage Visa.  That Visa can only be applied for at the thai consulates of Savannakhet, HoChiMin City and Penang, and it provides you with a 90-day permission to stay on entry.  After which you either need to exit the country (can be done with a quick same day border-run) or apply for a 60-day extension of stay at your local IO for reason of visiting your wife.  When timed right, that Visa can provide you with 17 months thai IO-hassle free stay in Thailand.

It is a very popular Visa because contrary to applying for a marriage Visa-extension at your local IO in Thailand, it is very easy to apply for it.  Basically you only need to show your marriage certificate, and there are NO financials required (except the 5.000 THB Visa fee).  When you apply in the morning, you can pick up your passport with the Visa next day.

Additional advantages: NO need to keep money in a thai bank-account, NO need for 90-day reports, NO need for re-entry permits and - especially interesting for you > NO need to deal with your local thai IO for extensions and having to jump all kind of hoops.

Only disadvantage being the 3- or 5-monthly (when extending) border-runs that this Visa requires, but if you live close to a land-border crossing or an international airport that's a small price to pay to avoid the yearly marriage-extension ordeal.

[Andre0720]

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 3:05 PM, Dillpickles98 said:

Hi Peter Thank you, that incident of last year was only one of several with this I.O. She also sent the Imm. police to our home, who wanted my sponsor there, with his I.D. and his house registration. As it turned out they spoke better English than they do at the office. Since we live in a housing complex with many farangs, with kids & families it was a routine visit. 

 

Our first yr. at this address the homeowner was out of country, her sister made a mistake on our lease, she wrote Moo 10, instead of Moo 5, and could not find the correct Tom Boon for the owner. This I.O threaten to send Imm. police then. All it took was a change to Moo 5, and her initial to correct that. 

 

In 9 yrs. I never spoke a word, surprised her to find I speak Thai, and learned 40 yrs ago. She handed me off to the next higher up. Who suggested why don't we just come back in 2 moths. I said why do you want to destroy of our family? 20 days overstay would have me deported. I said I need some kind of stamp to make my stay legal until I can comply with what you want. I now have the 400,000 plus in the bank. what else is up to you. The rest of that episode is as stated before. 

 

If you live in Pattaya and use Jomtiem Imm. you'll notice there is never anyone waiting at desk 6, because she is always sending people home. She didn't like my TM 7, filled out with Adobe Reader so she sent outside to complete it all by hand, first time for that.  I start working on the next years visa extension as soon as I get the current one. So now I have the TM 7, in my own hand witting, lacking only the date & signature. 

 

Guys ask why I go though this every year, why not just get a retirement visa? My wife gets survivor benefits for the rest of her life, I want to be sure she gets it. All too often farang die, without providing for their wives, then what happen to them?

 

Now we have Navy Federal Credit Union, we can call and have funds here in 4 hrs. they serve 8 million active duty, retried, veterans & DOD. Even Thai translators on duty 24/7. So that issue is solved.

I would suggest to anyone who is a veteran to take a look at Navy Federal.

 

DP.    

  

'If you live in Pattaya and use Jomtiem Imm. you'll notice there is never anyone waiting at desk 6, because she is always sending people home. She didn't like my TM 7, filled out with Adobe Reader so she sent outside to complete it all by hand, first time for that.  I start working on the next years visa extension as soon as I get the current one. So now I have the TM 7, in my own hand witting, lacking only the date & signature. '

If these people would go through a think tank exercise aimed at determining their 'Mission statement', what 'Objectives' and 'Customer service standards' would guide their actions.....

I would be soooo interested in reading that....

[Dillpickles98]

Hi Peter, I got your message, replied, and printed it though I have been through process for the past 10 years. I currently see no need to change anything. Paperwork is already completed except for the photos requested, dates, my signatures, and bank verification letter. Married 'O' extension expiry date 25 Oct. 2020, I will report a month early. so if anything new I will have time to comply before expiry. I never apply for multiple exit , re-entry as if I have to leave the Kingdom I apply then. We have only left once in 10 yrs. and don't expect to be leaving anytime soon. 

 

Thanks Again. 

 

DP. 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Dillpickles98

[Dillpickles98]

Thank you all contributors to this thread. I do believe it has run its course for it's title.

"Under Emergency Decree can a Tourist Visa be turn into a Retirement Visa?"

 

Though other issues have been presented, the answer to the original post has been satisfied. I would hope that any further replies be presented to an appropriate thread. If none exist then start a new one. As some of the information present in this thread could be very useful to others, in a thread which applies to those specific issues. 

 

So if you'll allow me, please consider this Thread closed.

 

Thank you all.

 

DP.