2,000-3,000-year-old paintings discovered in Sam Roi Yot National Park

[webfact]

2,000-3,000-year-old paintings discovered in Sam Roi Yot National Park

By The Nation

 

 

Archaeologists together with park officials exploring a cave in Prachuap Khiri Khan’s Sam Roi Yot National Park have found colour paintings estimated to be 2,000-3,000 years old and dating back to the prehistoric era, expert archaeologist Kannika Premjai revealed recently.

 

The images, discovered in the middle of May in Ban Phu Noi cave, are mostly portraits both small and large. Some portray people dressed in clothes while one shows a person hunting with a bow.

 

The paintings were discovered in an area 3.8 metres in height and 7 metres long at the mouth of the cave, which is approximately 125 metres above sea level and 9.5 metres wide.

 

“Some of the paintings are quite clear, but others have been destroyed by limestone stains. We are scrutinising them for more clear information,” Kannika said.

 

She believes the area was inhabited by humans in ancient times and will be a source of history. Her excited team are exploring 20 more caves in the area.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Source: https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30388465

 

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[DaLa]

They must be genuine if they were signed by the artist and dated 900 BC.

[kotsak]

2,000-3,000 years old being prehistoric? ????

[sirocco]

mazette, we must not have the same prehistory as the thais.
But hey, they are at home and the "specialists" Thai archaeologists must read the dates on the abacus.

Each his own.

[Pattaya46]

3 hours ago, kotsak said:

2,000-3,000 years old being prehistoric? ????

This was still Bronze Age and Iron Age in Thailand,

so I think it can still be called prehistoric. 

[klauskunkel]

16 hours ago, webfact said:

colour paintings estimated to be 2,000-3,000 years old

by comparison:

Lascaux cave paintings about 20,000 years old...

 

 

[wombat]

job lot of red paint gone missing lately?

[andre47]

1 hour ago, klauskunkel said:

by comparison:

Lascaux cave paintings about 20,000 years old...

by comparison:
home painting about 2 years old....

 

[PETERTHEEATER]

20 hours ago, webfact said:

one shows a person hunting with a bow.

Probably Japanese they are always very polite.....????

[Kerryd]

15 hours ago, kotsak said:

2,000-3,000 years old being prehistoric? ????

Prehistoric refers to a time before there were written records. That time differs between regions. For example, the earliest Egyptian writing is thought to date back to 2600 BC (or older) while the earliest Chinese writing is about 1,400 years "newer" (dating back to around 1200 BC). 
So what would be "historic" in Egypt (between 2600-1200 BC) would have still been "prehistoric" in China.

You can thank Hollywood for the idea that "prehistoric" means "back in the caveman/neanderthal days". 

For me, the fact there are cave paintings (assuming they are genuine and can be accurately dated) would also suggest that there is more to be found. A proper archaeological dig in those caves would no doubt turn up lots of evidence about who made those paintings (as they would have no doubt been living in those caves).  

Currently, the oldest known signs of "civilization" in (modern) Thailand date back to around 2100 BC in Ban Chiang (Udon Thani province). That date was confirmed by radio-carbon dating of materials found in graves in the area.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ban_Chiang

Technically that would still be in the "Stone Age". However it gets confusing as they say that those people "transitioned to the Bronze Age" around 1000 BC, but they also say that they were crafting Bronze items a thousand years earlier (around 2000 BC). 

However, the Wiki link to the "Early History of Thailand" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_history_of_Thailand) claims "Dating of artifacts from this site is controversial, but there is a consensus that at least by 3600 BCE, inhabitants had developed bronze tools and had begun to cultivate wet rice" (referring to the Ban Chiang site).

This is due to the first testing done on items found during excavations in 1967, using the "thermoluminescence technique ". The problem with that date though is it would mean that Bronze Age metallurgy was happening in Northern Thailand hundreds of years (about 800 in fact) before it started in Mesopotamia. (Currently it is thought that the earliest "Bronze Age" metallurgy was done in Mesopotamia around 2800 BC and the techniques didn't make it to Asia until about 800 years later.) 

I'm reading a research paper done in 1986 by Joyce White, Ph.D (She is considered the world's leading expert on the UNESCO World Heritage Site of Ban Chiang, Thailand")
http://seasiabib.museum.upenn.edu:8001/pdf_articles/bookchapters/2008_White.pdf

Prof White has concluded that the Bronze artifacts in Ban Chiang date back to at least 1500 BC and that the people there were probably making Bronze artifacts as far back as 2000 BC. That would be more along the generally accepted timelines based on how it appears that the techniques spread out from the Middle East to India, Europe and China.

Going to do some more reading and research and decide if I should edit the 1st Wiki article, especially as it seems to rely on a single reference. Looking up the person in the reference it seems even he is now stating that "re-dating" of the Ban Chiang site indicates they were doing Bronze metallurgy "11 centuries BCE" (or simply 1100-1000 BC).

(Note: He states "contrary to claims from the University of Pennsylvania" which is where Prof White did her paper. So he asserted that the site dates back to 3600 BC, then redated it to 1100 BC after Dr White determined the age was more likely in the 2000-1500 BC range.)

Sigh. I really don't want to put that much effort into it.

Looking at some of the artifacts from the Ban Chiang site, they seem to have a higher degree of "artistry" than the cave paintings.
I wouldn't be surprised if those cave paintings at Prachuap Khiri Khan turned out to be much older. (Prachuap Khiri Khan is about 650ish kms South-West of Udon Thani in straight line distance.) It's not likely the 2 will have any direct connections with each other, though it is possible that people were trading with people who traded with other people (etc etc).
That's assuming the dating of the paintings does fall into the same timeline as the stuff found in Ban Chiang.

There are a number of competing theories on how "people" spread out through the world, especially in "prehistoric" times. All we have to go on is the remains those people left behind. Shards of pottery, tools, burial sites, cave paintings. Like tiny, tiny pieces of a gigantic puzzle that not just spans the planet, but spans 50,000(+) years as well.

Little things like accurately dating Bronze Age items can help determine many things. Some items may have been made elsewhere and traded (many times). Or the technique could have gradually made its way East along the Silk Road until reaching China (around 2000 BC) and spreading through SE Asia from there.
(As an example, Chinese silk has been found in Egyptian tombs dating back to 1000 BC. Most likely traded from one group to another along the ancient trading routes until eventually ending up in Egypt, over 2,000 years before the trip Marco Polo supposedly made.) 

Well, that made for some enjoyable reading this morning while the skies decided if they were really going to rain or not.
 

[Curmudgeonly59]

Interesting, informative - thanks.

[Justgrazing]

On 5/25/2020 at 9:18 AM, webfact said:

The images, discovered in the middle of May in Ban Phu Noi cave, are mostly portraits both small and large.

Portraits .! Hahahaha that top rock looks like its just covered in claret after someone bashed their head on it .. and the bottom one is probably a prototype draughts board .. though playing draughts on the side of a rock is not the easiest way to go ..  

 

[klauskunkel]

On 5/25/2020 at 3:18 PM, webfact said:

Her excited team are exploring 20 more caves in the area.

oh-ohh, rainy season, you know?

[khaowong1]

12 hours ago, klauskunkel said:

by comparison:

Lascaux cave paintings about 20,000 years old...

 

 

Wow.. A hell of a difference.  

[Grumpy one]

On 5/25/2020 at 4:37 PM, kotsak said:

2,000-3,000 years old being prehistoric? ????

I cant really say, its a bit before my time 

[cooked]

On 5/25/2020 at 4:37 PM, kotsak said:

2,000-3,000 years old being prehistoric? ????

Look the word up in the dictionary. No Thai history from 2000 years ago, so it's prehistoric.

[kotsak]

1 hour ago, cooked said:

Look the word up in the dictionary. No Thai history from 2000 years ago, so it's prehistoric.

Well, that explains a lot ????

[toofarnorth]

On 5/26/2020 at 5:46 PM, klauskunkel said:

oh-ohh, rainy season, you know?

Yep . send for Vern ,its time he went caving again to rescue folk and upset the geezer with the tube.

[futsukayoi]

On 5/25/2020 at 4:37 PM, kotsak said:

2,000-3,000 years old being prehistoric? ????

In Thailand of course it is.  The Historic period is defined as when written history begins.  In Thailand writing and hence the end of the Prehistoric period is much more recent than that.