Sujo Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said: You can argue that but the site I quote is quite clear. Manslaughter is murder without intent. Thats what i said. But u quoted premeditated. Intent doesnt have to be premeditated, or planned if u like. Edited June 4, 2020 by Sujo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Sujo said: Murder is intent. manslaughter is no intent. You punch someone and he hits his head on a table and dies it is not murder because your intent was not to kill. Manslaughter. You could say the same for the officer but....his actions can be seen as intent after he was told the guy was non responsive yet still had him for another 2 minutes. A reasonable person would consider that further action could cause death. So that can bump it up to murder. Murder 1 would be premeditated, or planned. Not the case here. So murder 2 it is. You would have to listen to what he (The Cop) says before you could decide on whether it was deliberate or not , listen to the defense in court Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Sujo said: Thats what i said. Ok, I didn't see that but mea culpa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said: You can argue that but the site I quote is quite clear. Manslaughter is murder without intent. You seem to be disagreeing with yourself . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, CorpusChristie said: You seem to be disagreeing with yourself . No, just you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said: No, just you No, we both agree that you were wrong when you stated that "Manslaughter was still murder". It isn't , they are two different things , that's why they have two different words . You have posted a link showing that your original statement was wrong 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiekerjozef Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 They never see a day in prison, always protect their own... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 41 minutes ago, wombat said: the protests are ANTIFA, a terrorist organization flexing there muscle. who funds ANTIFA ? Never mind who funds it, does it even exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorG Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 This might help with the whole first, second, third degree thing - https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-1st-2nd-and-3rd-degree-murder-Why-do-the-distinctions-exist Bluespunk. You referenced a British law but different jurisdictions have differing laws, even within the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfill Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 6 hours ago, EVENKEEL said: No protests and no arrests, I doubt we would have heard about it had Floyd been white. Or a shade of orange.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadman Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 hours ago, cyril sneer said: liberals hate statistics, waste of time using them to back up an argument Putting aside that I am equally liberal and conservative I actually found the stats graph in post 50 interesting. The Afro Americans, Hispanics, whites and others deaths by percentage. Easy guess to work out the bulk of the others would be Asian. All around the world where they have immigrated to western countries and put up with endless racist and less than welcoming undertone they continually show up as the more compliant to, and respect of the law. Not surprising that they easily beat whites in the negative outcome stakes. Gotta love stats. So what does that suggest of the poorer preforming Hispanics and even worse compliant Afro Americans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorG Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: Never mind who funds it, does it even exist. Well, here are 7 chapters that openly proclaim themselves - https://torchantifa.org/chapters/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Roadman said: Putting aside that I am equally liberal and conservative I actually found the stats graph in post 50 interesting. The Afro Americans, Hispanics, whites and others deaths by percentage. Easy guess to work out the bulk of the others would be Asian. All around the world where they have immigrated to western countries and put up with endless racist and less than welcoming undertone they continually show up as the more compliant to, and respect of the law. Not surprising that they easily beat whites in the negative outcome stakes. Gotta love stats. So what does that suggest of the poorer preforming Hispanics and even worse compliant Afro Americans? It shows you don’t understand Stats. Come back when you’ve analyzed the ‘per capita’ killings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, DoctorG said: Well, here are 7 chapters that openly proclaim themselves - https://torchantifa.org/chapters/ And at least one that turns out to be a white supremacist group and posing posting online as ANTIFA. Edited June 4, 2020 by Chomper Higgot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorG Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, Chomper Higgot said: And at least one that turns out to be a white supremacist group posing posting online as ANTIFA. Interesting. Which one? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 30 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: Never mind who funds it, does it even exist. they exist. CNN has something on youtube if you are interested. just search for: behind the mask: the people in antifa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBW Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 23 minutes ago, Bluespunk said: That might be, but it is still correct to call manslaughter murder. Yes I tend to agree. Its 1st, 2nd and 3rd degree murder, which are broken down by the intent. Cheers GBW 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmarshall Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Canuck1966 said: The four will get off, I think they have gone for too much with murder 2 I didn't know til recently that George refused to stay in the police car. They placed him in there and he fought and came out the other side, claiming claustrophobia That's when they had to wrestle him to the ground and excessive force was used I don't think you can prove that the office purposely tried to kill him. Wonder how many times cops have heard a perp saying they can't breathe, then next thing they are running down the street Only one cop in the history of Minneapolis has ever gone to jail I think it was murder and that they will convince the jury. There are several more videos we haven't seen and it was on the basis of those and whatever other evidence has come out, that AG Ellison decided to up the charge to second-degree murder. I am encouraged that the AG finally charged Chauvin's three accomplices. AG Elllison is right man for the job. Edited June 4, 2020 by cmarshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) once the trial starts they've got to get a unanimous verdict from 12 jury members. you never know when a real outlier will end up on the jury. might not get 2nd or 3rd degree murder and have to settle for manslaughter. and the judge decides on the sentence within the guidelines of the actual guilty charge (below). it appears that for minnesota, 2nd degree max is 40 yrs, minimum 15 yrs. 3rd degree is 25 yrs max. manslaughter first degree is max 15 yrs. Edited June 4, 2020 by buick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bert bloggs Posted June 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2020 What they did was indefensable ,but i love the way all of a sudden Floyd is becoming some sort of good guy ,in fact he was an ex con ,,drunk and a guy who took drugs and passed forged cash ,mind you i dont think much of the cops . 3 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmarshall Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, buick said: once the trial starts they've got to get a unanimous verdict from 12 jury members. you never know when a real outlier will end up on the jury. might not get 2nd or 3rd degree murder and have to settle for manslaughter. and the judge decides on the sentence within the guidelines of the actual guilty charge (below). it appears that for minnesota, 2nd degree max is 40 yrs, minimum 15 yrs. 3rd degree is 25 yrs max. manslaughter first degree is max 15 yrs. Having both murder and manslaughter charges give the jury a greater opportunity to reach a guilty verdict by agreeing on the lesser charge. I expect the four cops will be in prison for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnapat Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Took a hell of a long time to do what was patently obvious at the outset. No medals for that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunFred Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Second degree murder is a joke. Nothing less than the death penalty should be acceptable in this case. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, cmarshall said: Having both murder and manslaughter charges give the jury a greater opportunity to reach a guilty verdict by agreeing on the lesser charge. I expect the four cops will be in prison for a long time. that's right, they should get a guilty verdict, even an outlier on the jury should agree on manslaughter. i'm not sure the other three officers will end up with the same sentence as the 'kneeler'. and those three may not be in prison for a long time. could end up as time served (the time they spend in jail awaiting the trial/verdict), again, the judge will decide and will have alot of discretion to give a lower amount of jail time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickbat Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Another incident demonstrating Trump as a clueless , senseless , weak leader. Mr Tough guy who was a draft dodger. America has crumbled from greatness. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chomper Higgot Posted June 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 4, 2020 52 minutes ago, bert bloggs said: What they did was indefensable ,but i love the way all of a sudden Floyd is becoming some sort of good guy ,in fact he was an ex con ,,drunk and a guy who took drugs and passed forged cash ,mind you i dont think much of the cops . I’ve not seen anyone here claiming he was ‘a good guy’. The issue is he was not any threat to anyone when he was killed by the police. 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert bloggs Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: I’ve not seen anyone here claiming he was ‘a good guy’. The issue is he was not any threat to anyone when he was killed by the police. I did not say anyone"here" was saying he was a good guy . but his family have ,or as his son said"my dad changed the world"???? well his being in it has certainly messed parts of it up big time .and as i have always said ,that cop deserves everything he gets , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Bluespunk said: Good to hear all four will be charged. Though I have concerns that second degree murder can be proved. The cop is undoubtedly a thug whose actions are directly responsible for George Floyds death, but I seriously doubt he intended to kill him. I thought exactly same as you until I watched this entire vid. People imploring the a-hole cops to ease up. Even after the parameds arrived, the a-hole kept it firm. Never a struggle or any resistance. Murder 2 is the correct charge and hopefully they can make it stick. Edited June 4, 2020 by Skeptic7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexomike Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said: Well yes, murder is always wrong, especially murder by the police, but race does matter. Until the advent of the Black Lives Matter movement there was no systematic collection of data on the race of people killed by the police. The data is essential to understand the systematic racism that is behind Black Americans being killed by police at three times the rate per capita as White Americans. And what percent of the crimes are they committing, would really be nice to no that 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Off topic bickering posts and replies about "Manslaughter in the UK is defined as murder without premeditation" as this case is not in the UK, it is in the USA. Other off topic posts, troll posts and the replies have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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