Marriage visa - Clarification of Monthly Income into Thailand

[robindon]

Hi,

I have been married to a Thai for the last 6 years. During that time I have usually split my time between uk and Thailand 50/50 sometimes I have had multi entry 1 year marriage visa issued in London and other times I fly over on 60 day tourist visa and return after to uk after about 6 weeks.

This visit however I entered the Kingdom on a 60 day tourist visa issued in Hull in UK. I arrived 15th March and when I got passport back the stamp in it said admitted til 10th June (90days) and the Officer has hand written non-o inside the stamp. So

 

Q1 Am I here on a tourist or Non-0 visa and do I need to extend it now or do I wait until end July.

 

I would like to convert this visa into a marriage visa, and I satisify all of the marriage visa criteria but I need to rely on the monies transfered into Thailand from foreign sources to satisfy the 40k+ per month as I do not have 400k in a Thai Bank.

Over the last 8 years I have transfered more that 40k every month into my Thai Bank. Initially through Orbit Remit a New Zealand based transfer company and very latley through transferwise as their services is slightly faster.

 

Q2 Yesterday my Wife and I went to immigration and my wife spoke to the immigration officer in Thai. He convinced her that I had to have the 400k actually in my bank and said that was the only way I could extend/or get new visa.

 

This I feel may be incorrect. But I am unsure of the correct route to achieve obtaining a one year marriage o visa.

 

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated from people in similar situations.

 

Thanks

Below is my stamp and you can see that the visa says "tourist visa"

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, robindon said:

This visit however I entered the Kingdom on a 60 day tourist visa issued in Hull in UK. I arrived 15th March and when I got passport back the stamp in it said admitted til 10th June (90days) and the Officer has hand written non-o inside the stamp.

 

If the visa you used to arrive was a Tourist Visa, you should have received 60-days as a Tourist, the stamp is in error, and this will likely be caught at immigration. 

 

Therefore, to switch to a Non-O marriage-based will require first getting a "Change of Visa" aka "conversion" - a 90-Day Non-O from immigration.  In the last 30-days of that, you can apply for the 1-year extension.

 

1 hour ago, robindon said:

Yesterday my Wife and I went to immigration and my wife spoke to the immigration officer in Thai. He convinced her that I had to have the 400k actually in my bank and said that was the only way I could extend/or get new visa.

 

This I feel may be incorrect. But I am unsure of the correct route to achieve obtaining a one year marriage o visa.

Several offices will not issue the 90-day Non-O using the published rules.  We even have some reports of some offices refusing to allow applicants to use income for 1-year extensions, in some cases. 

 

For example, a guy who had just moved to Thailand, and already had a Non-O-Visa entry (90-days), was told he needed to show 1 YEAR of monthly transfers, even though he had just arrived.

 

What the IO is after, is for you to go to his partner, an "agent," and hand over a large wad of cash, which they will split (most going to the IO).  Because this money is shared up the chain, like a "multi-level-marketing" scheme, the higher-ups do not force the local offices to follow the published rules. 

 

The cost of this process varies by which office and which agent.  "Package Deals" for both the Non-O 90-Day, and 1-year extension, are often offered at below the cost of doing them separately.  For example, in Jomtien, the "package price" for both is 25K, whereas the Non-O by itself is 15K, and the 1-year extension another 15K (some reports at 12K). 

 

All the financial requirements vanish, when using immigration's agent-partners, showing they never really cared "if you had the money," or not.  It's just a scheme they use to line their pockets.

Edited June 6, 2020 by JackThompson

[ubonjoe]

1. The officer made mistake when he stamped you into the country. You certainly entered on tourist visa.

   You stamp should be corrected to show your entry as on a tourist visa.

To apply for an one year extension you would have to a apply for a 90 day non immigrant visa (caterory O) at immigration.

Does your bank book show your transfers came from abroad. If not you should be able to get credit advises to prove they were international transfers.

2. You can use your transfers to apply for the extension. But you may have a problem applying for the non-o visa at immigration.

You best option may be to get your transfers sorted out so they show they came from abroad.

You could stay until July 31st and then apply for a 60 day extension to visit your wife shortly before the 31st.

You best option after that may be to go to Savannakhet or Vientiane to get a single entry non-o vsia.

[robindon]

30 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

1. The officer made mistake when he stamped you into the country. You certainly entered on tourist visa.

   You stamp should be corrected to show your entry as on a tourist visa.

To apply for an one year extension you would have to a apply for a 90 day non immigrant visa (caterory O) at immigration.

Does your bank book show your transfers came from abroad. If not you should be able to get credit advises to prove they were international transfers.

2. You can use your transfers to apply for the extension. But you may have a problem applying for the non-o visa at immigration.

You best option may be to get your transfers sorted out so they show they came from abroad.

You could stay until July 31st and then apply for a 60 day extension to visit your wife shortly before the 31st.

You best option after that may be to go to Savannakhet or Vientiane to get a single entry non-o vsia.

I assume due to the visa amnesty the tourist visa even though it appears to mistakenly been stamped will automaticlly be extended to 31st July. The fact that a mistake appears to have been made by the officer wont mean I get fined. When you say apply for 60 day extention to visit my wife I am slightly confused as she is living with me currently in Thailand.

[Peter Denis]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

....

You could stay until July 31st and then apply for a 60 day extension to visit your wife shortly before the 31st.

You best option after that may be to go to Savannakhet or Vientiane to get a single entry non-o vsia.

As usual, good and sound advice by UbonJoe.

 

An even better option if you intend to stay long-term in Thailand would be to apply for the 1-year MultipleEntry Non Imm O marriage Visa at the thai consulate in Savannakhet, Laos or HoChiMinh City, Vietnam.  The requirements for that 1-year MultipleEntry Visa are exactly the same as for the 90-day SingleEntry Visa mentioned by UJ (only difference being the cost of the Visa > 5.000 THB vs 2.000 THB).  And it is a simple process basically just showing that you are still married to your thai wife (and no need for any financials to be proven) in the morning of day 1, and next day you can collect your passport with the Visa.

The Multiple Entry Non Imm O - marriage Visa is valid for a full year from date of issue.  During the Visa validity you can enter/re-enter Thailand as much as you like (no need for re-entry permits).  However, you are only allowed stays of max 90 days, after which you have to leave Thailand.  A simple same-day border-run would suffice to get stamped in again for your next 90 days.  When timed right you can squeeze almost 17 months out of the Visa (by exiting and re-entering just before expiry of the Visa validity).  And it can be extended for 2 months at the end of every 90-day entry, which would also bring the required border-runs down.

 

>> Just PM me if you need more information on that 1-year MultipleEntry Non Imm O marriage Visa as I compiled some recent reports with practical details as well as an overview of the specific - but very limited - requirements to apply at both Consulates.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, robindon said:

I assume due to the visa amnesty the tourist visa even though it appears to mistakenly been stamped will automaticlly be extended to 31st July. The fact that a mistake appears to have been made by the officer wont mean I get fined.

Yes and Yes

3 minutes ago, robindon said:

When you say apply for 60 day extention to visit my wife I am slightly confused as she is living with me currently in Thailand.

Visit is used in the police order for the exension. It does not matter if you are living with her. 

[JackThompson]

43 minutes ago, robindon said:

I assume due to the visa amnesty the tourist visa even though it appears to mistakenly been stamped will automaticlly be extended to 31st July. The fact that a mistake appears to have been made by the officer wont mean I get fined.

People have been fined for 'overstay' when the stamp was in error.  

But, you will not be fined, due to the "automatic extension" until July 31 for all persons not on overstay when the amnesty-period began.  

 

It is very important to always double-check your stamp upon entry, and get it corrected immediately if in-error. 

[Moonlover]

3 hours ago, robindon said:

Q2 Yesterday my Wife and I went to immigration and my wife spoke to the immigration officer in Thai. He convinced her that I had to have the 400k actually in my bank and said that was the only way I could extend/or get new visa.

This is not true. Either the IO is trying to steer you toward using an agency, or he's trying to avoid the extra work of a marriage extension. 

 

If, as you say, you have 40k+ a month income and you can prove that it came from abroad, you're entitled to a marriage extension. I noted that you're using Transferwise, which is good. By downloading the transaction slip you have that proof. I use them myself.

 

Don't be dissuaded and good luck.

[robindon]

49 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

This is not true. Either the IO is trying to steer you toward using an agency, or he's trying to avoid the extra work of a marriage extension. 

 

If, as you say, you have 40k+ a month income and you can prove that it came from abroad, you're entitled to a marriage extension. I noted that you're using Transferwise, which is good. By downloading the transaction slip you have that proof. I use them myself.

 

Don't be dissuaded and good luck.

So in theory I could extend existing tourist visa 60 days. Then is that visa dead ie it cannot be used for marriage extension so have to leave and do visa run. But is my current tourist visa capable of being extended/changed to an non-o and then with the proved 40k+ income changed to 1 year marriage visa.

[Moonlover]

6 minutes ago, robindon said:

 

So in theory I could extend existing tourist visa 60 days. Then is that visa dead ie it cannot be used for marriage extension so have to leave and do visa run. But is my current tourist visa capable of being extended/changed to an non-o and then with the proved 40k+ income changed to 1 year marriage visa.

You need to convert it to a non imm O visa. See @ubonjoe's post #3 above.

 

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

To apply for an one year extension you would have to a apply for a 90 day non immigrant visa (caterory O) at immigration.

 

[Peter Denis]

5 minutes ago, robindon said:

So in theory I could extend existing tourist visa 60 days. Then is that visa dead ie it cannot be used for marriage extension so have to leave and do visa run. But is my current tourist visa capable of being extended/changed to an non-o and then with the proved 40k+ income changed to 1 year marriage visa.

During the last 15 days (some IOs require 23 days) of the permission to stay from your VisaExempt or Tourist Visa entry (or from an extension of these) you can apply at your local IO for a 90-day Non Imm O marriage Visa.  You would need 400K on a personal thai bank-account or proof of at least 1 transfer of 40K with foreign origins proven.  In the last month of that 90-day Visa you can then apply at that same local IO for the 1-year extension based on your Non Imm O marriage Visa (by then the 400K would have been 2 months < some IOs require 3 months > in your personal bank-account, OR you would have to show you continued the 40K monthly-income transfers, so at least 2 of those are required < some IOs require a minimum of 3 monthly income-transfers).

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, robindon said:

But is my current tourist visa capable of being extended/changed to an non-o and then with the proved 40k+ income changed to 1 year marriage visa.

Yes - according to the "official rules," you can do exactly that.  The next step, is to go to your local immigration office, and try.  Then you will find out whether they follow the actual rules or not. 

 

You will find many threads here about offices which do not follow those rules - but these vary by office, and over time - so the only way to find out, is to try.

[john terry1001]

6 hours ago, robindon said:

Over the last 8 years I have transfered more that 40k every month into my Thai Bank. Initially through Orbit Remit a New Zealand based transfer company and very latley through transferwise as their services is slightly faster.

Be careful, the rules stipulate you must transfer at least 40k baht into Thailand from overseas every Calendar month over the previous twelve months. Transfering slightly less than 40k in one calendar month cannot be compensated by transferring a larger amount in a previous/subsequent month, even though the rules, when translated into English, refers to an average monthly amount.

[robindon]

1 hour ago, john terry1001 said:

Be careful, the rules stipulate you must transfer at least 40k baht into Thailand from overseas every Calendar month over the previous twelve months. Transfering slightly less than 40k in one calendar month cannot be compensated by transferring a larger amount in a previous/subsequent month, even though the rules, when translated into English, refers to an average monthly amount.

Yes with a Thai wife and 17 year old student to support and a grandchild I feel sure my monthly transfers will add up to 40k but will download the summaries from the transfer agents and check.

 

Thanks to everyone who replied the situation is much clearer now.

[Peter Denis]

20 hours ago, john terry1001 said:

Be careful, the rules stipulate you must transfer at least 40k baht into Thailand from overseas every Calendar month over the previous twelve months. Transfering slightly less than 40k in one calendar month cannot be compensated by transferring a larger amount in a previous/subsequent month, even though the rules, when translated into English, refers to an average monthly amount.

It is correct that 12 months of 40K transferred every month is required when you are RE-extending your present permission to stay of your Non Imm O - marriage Visa.  But when you apply for the initial Visa (as the OP will be doing), he will only need to show that he has 400K on his personal thai bank account on the day of application, or that he did at lest 1 monthly income transfer of 40K in the month of his application.  Once he has the 90-day Non Imm O marriage Visa he needs to keep the funds in his personal thai bank-account or continue transferring  each month 40K.

That way he can show when applying for his very first 1-year extension of stay (in the last month of his 90-day permission to stay) that he kept the funds at least 2 months in his personal thai bank-account. or made at least 2 monthly income transfers of 40K. 

It is only when he did opt for the monthly 40K transfers that at his NEXT 1-year extension of stay, he will need to show that he did that in each and every of the 12 months.  If he did opt for the 400K money-in-bank method, he would only need to provide evidence that 400K has been on his account in the 2 months before his application and he would need to keep them their till his application is approved (which can take 3-4 weeks).  The rest of the year he can those funds as he pleases, and only needs to top up again 2 months before his next 1-year extension application.

However, it is recommended that OP visits his local IO to enquire whether they have different or additional requirements when applying for the 90-day Non Imm O - marriage Visa or its subsequent 1-year extension.  E.g. some IOs require 3 months instead of 2 months when applying for the very first 1-year extension of stay.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

It is correct that 12 months of 40K transferred every month is required when you are RE-extending your present permission to stay of your Non Imm O - marriage Visa.  But when you apply for the initial Visa (as the OP will be doing), he will only need to show that he has 400K on his personal thai bank account on the day of application, or that he did at lest 1 monthly income transfer of 40K in the month of his application.  Once he has the 90-day Non Imm O marriage Visa he needs to keep the funds in his personal thai bank-account or continue transferring  each month 40K.

...

Immigration not following this rule seems to be happening - not only the frequent lying about the Non-O 90-Day Visa requirement, but also 1-year extensions:

Quote

I went to cw last week for a 1-year retirement extension but they rejected my application because I couldn’t show bank statement with 12 monthly transfer to my thai account. I just moved to Thailand and could only show statement with 4 monthly transfers to my account, all min. 65,000 baht. The io said that I had to transfer 800,000 baht to my thai account and keep them there for 2 month or come back in 8 month with a 1-year statement with 12 monthly transfer.
...
I have a ME non-immigrant O visa
...
I asked the io how I could show 1-year bank statement with 12 monthly transfers if I just moved to thailand. She just said that I should transfer 800,000 baht to my thai account and come back in 2 months. The io asked her supervisor and she said the same. 
...
Desk L1 for extension and NOT the reception and NOT the “document screening” woman.
...
I brought my bankbook, ownership statement and statement from bangkok bank showing 4 international transfers to my thai account since february.

That was at Chiang Wattana - the main office.  So no surprise that other offices are joining the parade.  No one in authority will do anything, it seems.

[BritManToo]

On 6/6/2020 at 12:12 PM, robindon said:

Q1 Am I here on a tourist or Non-0 visa and do I need to extend it now or do I wait until end July.

1) What does the full page VISA in your passport say?

OK I can see the VISA is 'tourist' so the entry stamp is incorrect.

2) at the moment it doesn't matter, we can all stay until 31st July.

3) nobody knows what will happen after then, but immigration will have a lot of 'envelopes' to recoup, so assume they'll be as difficult as possible without an agent bribe.

Edited June 7, 2020 by BritManToo

[robindon]

On 6/6/2020 at 10:26 AM, Peter Denis said:

During the last 15 days (some IOs require 23 days) of the permission to stay from your VisaExempt or Tourist Visa entry (or from an extension of these) you can apply at your local IO for a 90-day Non Imm O marriage Visa.  You would need 400K on a personal thai bank-account or proof of at least 1 transfer of 40K with foreign origins proven.  In the last month of that 90-day Visa you can then apply at that same local IO for the 1-year extension based on your Non Imm O marriage Visa (by then the 400K would have been 2 months < some IOs require 3 months > in your personal bank-account, OR you would have to show you continued the 40K monthly-income transfers, so at least 2 of those are required < some IOs require a minimum of 3 monthly income-transfers).

Hi Again, following the advice given previously my plan was to extend my 60 day tourist visa before end of this month July 2020 and then Visit either HCMC or Laos to obtain new 90 day O visa.

Now as uncertantity re quarantine periods and international travel, my thoughts are......

 

1. Go to IO Rayong as I have residence there.

2. Extend Tourist visa for as long as permitted (30/60 days) not entirely sure

3. During extension period, again at IO Rayong convert visa to non O based on marriage. Ideally I would want a year multi entry eventually but I believe it may be easier to get the 90 say single entry.

 

In last 4 months March to June I have transferred well over 40k mer month from uk to Thailand so I should qualify for the 90 day marriage visa financial requirements right.

Also will I need the 100k insurance for covid 19 ?

 

Any comments or advice gratefully received.

 

Thanks

Edited July 3, 2020 by robindon
add bit more

[Peter Denis]

47 minutes ago, robindon said:

Hi Again, following the advice given previously my plan was to extend my 60 day tourist visa before end of this month July 2020 and then Visit either HCMC or Laos to obtain new 90 day O visa.

Now as uncertaintity re quarantine periods and international travel, my thoughts are......

 

1. Go to IO Rayong as I have residence there.

2. Extend Tourist visa for as long as permitted (30/60 days) not entirely sure

3. During extension period, again at IO Rayong convert visa to non O based on marriage. Ideally I would want a year multi entry eventually but I believe it may be easier to get the 90 say single entry.

 

In last 4 months March to June I have transferred well over 40k mer month from uk to Thailand so I should qualify for the 90 day marriage visa financial requirements right.

Also will I need the 100k insurance for covid 19 ?

1. Go to IO Rayong as I have residence there.

Since you are staying here presently on a Tourist Visa (which expired 13 May), you can do your application for the 30-day extension of your Tourist Visa or the 60-day extension of stay for reason of visiting your wife, at any IO.

But since you have residence in Rayong, its recommended to do the application there (and it will provide you with the opportunity to enquire there when doing your application on their requirements for your next planned step, i.e. applying for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of marriage)

 

2. Extend Tourist visa for as long as permitted (30/60 days) not entirely sure

In principle if you did not apply yet for the 30-day extension which your Tourist Visa entitles you to, you should be able to apply for that one first.  However, it is possible that IO might refuse it because you are already almost 2 months now here on the automatic extension because of the Amnesty.  But still would be useful to at least try as it would provide you with an extra month of stay (and that might come in handy once the borders open again).

In case IO won't provide you with the 30-day extension of your Tourist Visa, that's not the end of the world because IO cannot deny you the 60-day extension for reason of visiting your wife.

So your best option would be to apply at your local Rayong IO just before the Amnesty expires (31 July if it is not extended).  And that would provide you either with 30 days and later 60 days, so either 2 or 3 months from date of application, which would bring you to end of September or end of October.

NOTE > A possible issue could be that IO 'back-dates' your application from the expiry of your Tourist Visa permission to stay (13 May).  When they do so, you would only be good till 11 August (when they add-up the two applications 30 + 60 days).

But the consensus on the Forum is that normally at least the 60-day extension would start from date of application, and that would bring you to end of September when applying in the days before the Amnesty expires.

 

3. During extension period, again at IO Rayong convert visa to non O based on marriage. Ideally I would want a year multi entry eventually but I believe it may be easier to get the 90 say single entry.

If the borders are not open again by the end of the Amnesty or the maximum permission to stay you could squeeze out of [2.], then indeed you would have to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of marriage at your Rayong IO.  This has to be done 15 (some offices require 23) days before the expiry of your permission to stay.

Please note that you cannot apply for the 1-year MultipleEntry when you do the application in country at your local IO, since only a 90-day Non Imm O Visa can be obtained in-country.

But obviously, if the borders are open again by the time you would need to apply for that 90-day Non Imm O Visa, and you would not be confronted with draconian quarantaine measures or expensive covid-19 insurance or other administrative hurdles, when crossing the border (or wanting to return), then it would be best to apply for the 1-year ME Non Imm O marriage Visa at the thai consulate in Savannakhet, Laos or HoChiMin City, Vietnam.  In an earlier post I provided you already with the details on that attractive option.  But in these covid-times it is not certain that you will be able to do this even in a couple of months from now.

 

4 - In last 4 months March to June I have transferred well over 40k mer month from uk to Thailand so I should qualify for the 90 day marriage visa financial requirements right.

You only need ONE 40K transfer (with foreign origins proven) in the month preceding your application for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of marriage.

 

5 - Also will I need the 100k insurance for covid 19 ?

That is only required at the present moment for certain categories of people, that presently want to return to Thailand (tourists and Visa holders not married to a thai national do NOT fall under these categories).

If you don't leave Thailand, it will not be required.  And most probably different requirements will be applicable for re-entry once the borders are opened again, so a health-insurance policy might become mandatory but for sure it will not be the limited and expensive ones that are now on offer (for those desperate enough to come back to Thailand irrespective of the cost).

 

[robindon]

Many thanks, very useful information.  Currently I have a lease on a condo in Jomtien until 23 July. So maybe. 30 day ext. To tourist visa at chonburi Io. Then few days before that expires 60 day extend to visit wife in Rayong. Then 23/15 days before end of this one apply to convert to 90day O marriage visa based on 40k transfer. All sounds promising 

[robindon]

Good Morning. Update on situation

We are still renting Condo in Jomtien.. And I still have yellow book and Pink Card registered in Rayong and my Wife still owns house. As far as I know Condo office registered me at Jomtien IMO when I started renting in April.

 

I am planning the first stage of the extending process by firstly getting the 60 day extention to my tourist visa by reason of marriage. I was planning to go to Rayong IMO in Mataphut with my wife in next day or so to acheive this.

 

My wife is concerned as she has not reported me living with her (we have been in Condo in Jomtien) that she could get fined by Imigration if I go to Rayong.

 

Could she? or is it preferable to attendJomtien for extension, and then go to Rayong ie. Move to Rayong Later to get 90 day O visa on basis of marriage.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice given, as my wife has a friend of a friend who said .... bla bla bla. And of course they are totally correct!!

 

[Peter Denis]

6 minutes ago, robindon said:

Good Morning. Update on situation

We are still renting Condo in Jomtien.. And I still have yellow book and Pink Card registered in Rayong and my Wife still owns house. As far as I know Condo office registered me at Jomtien IMO when I started renting in April.

 

I am planning the first stage of the extending process by firstly getting the 60 day extention to my tourist visa by reason of marriage. I was planning to go to Rayong IMO in Mataphut with my wife in next day or so to acheive this.

 

My wife is concerned as she has not reported me living with her (we have been in Condo in Jomtien) that she could get fined by Imigration if I go to Rayong.

 

Could she? or is it preferable to attendJomtien for extension, and then go to Rayong ie. Move to Rayong Later to get 90 day O visa on basis of marriage.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice given, as my wife has a friend of a friend who said .... bla bla bla. And of course they are totally correct!!

You can ONLY apply for an extension (be it the 60-day extension of stay, or the later 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of marriage) at the IO of the province where you are officially residing.

Since you mentioned that your landlord registered you in Jomtien where you are renting the condo, that is your official place of residence.

Note: The fact that your wife owns a house in Rayong, would make it easy for you to relocate to Rayong in case Jomtien is making problems w.r.t. your application.

When doing so, it would be just a matter of filing a TM-30 at the IO in Rayong, that you are living in the house of your wife, which would then make Rayong your official place of residence.