Work Permit self employed

[spoon1967]

Sorry if this had been mentioned in the past, but please bear with me and help if you can. 

Planning on moving to Thailand soon, and wish to set up a small business, I am a collector and trader of coins, amulets etc.

I was looking at working under the radar but would feel better doing it right, I also may go partners in a small cafe/bar with a family friend (Thai) who is related to my ex Thai wife (I also have a son in Thailand), but was good friends with me in UK.

I heard you need a lot of cash to set up a Thai company and need Thai partners? 

How do I get a visa/WP for being self emplyed?

 

 

[ubonjoe]

You have to be working for a Thai company or partnership to get a work permit. You cannot get one if you are self employed.

[spoon1967]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

You have to be working for a Thai company or partnership to get a work permit. You cannot get one if you are self employed.

Thanks Joe, so if I set up a Thai company with 3 Thai partners they would apply for the WP for me, makes sense.

Think I'll just get a Thai friend to apply for one for me and "work" as an advisor for their company, less hassle.

 

 

[qwertyuiop]

On 6/6/2020 at 9:01 PM, spoon1967 said:

Thanks Joe, so if I set up a Thai company with 3 Thai partners they would apply for the WP for me, makes sense.

Think I'll just get a Thai friend to apply for one for me and "work" as an advisor for their company, less hassle.

 

 

Please remember, work permits are job and company specific. Possession of a work permit does not allow you to take up any employment or to work for any  company desired. The work permit will simply allow you to work for the company and in the position listed in the work permit. 

[wmlc]

www.thailegalprotection.com

I came across this the other day. Maybe they can help you, but I would think twice about this idea now due to covid-19.

Edited June 8, 2020 by wmlc

[meinphuket]

10 hours ago, qwertyuiop said:

Please remember, work permits are job and company specific. Possession of a work permit does not allow you to take up any employment or to work for any  company desired. The work permit will simply allow you to work for the company and in the position listed in the work permit. 

That is no longer true.

[5633572526]

Remember the golden rule here  “never invest more than you can afford to lose” 

[misterphil]

Are you smoking something? The Country is shut down and 1000's of business' have recently collapsed due to Covid-19. 

[henry15]

Selling and trading in coins and amulets is prohibited for non-Thai

[Srikcir]

"Thai partners"

Generally, they will have 51% of the business provided by part of your capital investment; you're left holding 49%.

Together they can hire and fire, ie., you.

That doesn't leave you with much of a discretionary business plan when you invest 100% of the capital.

 

[spoon1967]

2 hours ago, wmlc said:

www.thailegalprotection.com

I came across this the other day. Maybe they can help you, but I would think twice about this idea now due to covid-19.

That looks very interesting, I'll do some invest cheers

[spoon1967]

1 hour ago, henry15 said:

Selling and trading in coins and amulets is prohibited for non-Thai

Amulets maybe restricted, that side is more of a hobby, as for Coins and banknotes I'm not so sure, I know of other farangs who have had legitimate businesses in that area.  I have other options of course, sell on-line, sell at auction, collect in Thailand and sell at coin fairs outside Thailand.   Also at the auction in Bangkok, sellers are invited from outside Thailand and are allowed to set up stalls. 

[spoon1967]

1 hour ago, misterphil said:

Are you smoking something? The Country is shut down and 1000's of business' have recently collapsed due to Covid-19. 

I have been coming to Thailand 4 times a year for 12 years, was married there and have a Thai son.  Covid-19? I must of missed that.   Of course I'm well aware of the current situation, and yes I do plan to live permanently in Thailand and have a business, and I don't "smoke" anything.  

[SbuxPlease]

Perhaps consider if you absolutely need a B-Visa/WP for what you want to do or can you get away with an Elite visa instead by not actually doing something that would be considered "work".

 

Having set up a company and employing 20 Thais at one point (sold now, I got out), I can tell you that the idea to set up your company for the purpose of getting a B-visa/WP so that you can stay in Thailand and maybe earn some cash on the side is outdated and not good idea. The current regulatory environment just does not feel friendly to westerners who want to have a go at it. The expenses ran me no less than $10k USD annually to maintain the legal framework of the company not counting the internal staff I hired to manage the continual tax and government paperwork, and even with all of this every year still felt like a nail-biting toss-up about whether I'd get the visa stamp in time without having to suddenly uproot my life and come back as a tourist as we battled the finer details of my visa application and mountain of paperwork with immigration.

 

If you are able to design your "business" so that a Thai partner or their staff do anything that would be considered "work" it seems like you might be able to stay within the letter of the law. And the Elite visa is vastly smoother, lower stress, and cheaper per annum than running a company to get the permission to stay.

 

 

[khunPer]

On 6/6/2020 at 4:01 PM, spoon1967 said:

Thanks Joe, so if I set up a Thai company with 3 Thai partners they would apply for the WP for me, makes sense.

Think I'll just get a Thai friend to apply for one for me and "work" as an advisor for their company, less hassle.

If not married to a Thai, or being US citizen, you will need to establish a Thai company limited with a minimum of three shareholders – i.e. two more than yourself – and 51 percent of the shareholder capital shall be held by Thai nationals.

 

To apply for one work permit for a foreigner you need a shareholder capital of not less than 2 million baht, and 4 Thai employees.

 

Mind you, that a number of jobs are reserved for Thais only.

 

If you search, you will find several threads in this forum about establishing a Thai company limited, including many wise comments.

[khunPer]

57 minutes ago, spoon1967 said:

Also at the auction in Bangkok, sellers are invited from outside Thailand and are allowed to set up stalls.

Sellers can get a permission for that event only.

[spoon1967]

2 hours ago, SbuxPlease said:

Perhaps consider if you absolutely need a B-Visa/WP for what you want to do or can you get away with an Elite visa instead by not actually doing something that would be considered "work".

 

Having set up a company and employing 20 Thais at one point (sold now, I got out), I can tell you that the idea to set up your company for the purpose of getting a B-visa/WP so that you can stay in Thailand and maybe earn some cash on the side is outdated and not good idea. The current regulatory environment just does not feel friendly to westerners who want to have a go at it. The expenses ran me no less than $10k USD annually to maintain the legal framework of the company not counting the internal staff I hired to manage the continual tax and government paperwork, and even with all of this every year still felt like a nail-biting toss-up about whether I'd get the visa stamp in time without having to suddenly uproot my life and come back as a tourist as we battled the finer details of my visa application and mountain of paperwork with immigration.

 

If you are able to design your "business" so that a Thai partner or their staff do anything that would be considered "work" it seems like you might be able to stay within the letter of the law. And the Elite visa is vastly smoother, lower stress, and cheaper per annum than running a company to get the permission to stay.

 

 

That's interesting, I had actually considered the Elite visa route, the added advantage of assistance when dealing with Gov authorities is a bonus.  The options I have are a retirement visa, however having 800k tied up isn't good, although in 2 years I'll have 500k+ in pension payments, so only 300k need be tied up, visa for supporting Thai child (my son is 8yrs), but there's still the need to exit/entry every 3 months, or of course the elite.  I take your experiences on board, I understand it can be diffucult, exspensive and worrying.

 

Thanks for your time in replying, I think the elite is best opton.

 

 

[spoon1967]

2 hours ago, khunPer said:

Sellers can get a permission for that event only.

That would be fine, but I expect you have to jump through hoops to get accepted.

I could just "employ" a thai family member to "run" it for me, and pay then a % of profit.  I would obviously need to keep out of the picture, and not handle any cash/goods at point of sale.

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, spoon1967 said:

That would be fine, but I expect you have to jump through hoops to get accepted.

I could just "employ" a thai family member to "run" it for me, and pay then a % of profit.  I would obviously need to keep out of the picture, and not handle any cash/goods at point of sale.

I'm not able to give you any advice of that kind, but presumable a number of foreigners do something in business keeping low profile under the radar – and physically never in touch with the business – and most important, they don't talk about it...????

[Matt199]

9 hours ago, meinphuket said:

That is no longer true.

@meinphuket can you elaborate? I always thought that's the case. What has changed? Would help me

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, Matt199 said:

@meinphuket can you elaborate? I always thought that's the case. What has changed? Would help me

There has been several threads about it, one of them here, the list at bottom of article might take you to more details...

 

[ericthai]

12 hours ago, SbuxPlease said:

Perhaps consider if you absolutely need a B-Visa/WP for what you want to do or can you get away with an Elite visa instead by not actually doing something that would be considered "work".

 

Having set up a company and employing 20 Thais at one point (sold now, I got out), I can tell you that the idea to set up your company for the purpose of getting a B-visa/WP so that you can stay in Thailand and maybe earn some cash on the side is outdated and not good idea. The current regulatory environment just does not feel friendly to westerners who want to have a go at it. The expenses ran me no less than $10k USD annually to maintain the legal framework of the company not counting the internal staff I hired to manage the continual tax and government paperwork, and even with all of this every year still felt like a nail-biting toss-up about whether I'd get the visa stamp in time without having to suddenly uproot my life and come back as a tourist as we battled the finer details of my visa application and mountain of paperwork with immigration.

 

If you are able to design your "business" so that a Thai partner or their staff do anything that would be considered "work" it seems like you might be able to stay within the letter of the law. And the Elite visa is vastly smoother, lower stress, and cheaper per annum than running a company to get the permission to stay.

 

 

I agree with you, setting up a company just for a work permit is not a good idea.

 

What kind of business did you have? I had a few companies in Thailand, the last one had almost 100 employees, never had an issue getting my B visa or work permit they were both renewed every year with the typical corps docs. Sure we had a few audits in the beginning but no big deal after that.  $10K USD a year to maintain the legal frame work? What was this for?

[Matt199]

9 hours ago, khunPer said:

There has been several threads about it, one of them here, the list at bottom of article might take you to more details...

 

Thank you @khunPer for sharing, but it seems that in this thread there isn't anything about what @meinphuket wrote, which is that if you had work permit from company A for a specific activity, you can perform work for company B as well for other activity. I would like to learn more about it.

 

[CH1961]

On 6/6/2020 at 6:51 PM, spoon1967 said:

working under the radar

It was a very good idea to advertise your illegal activities here on TVF ????

[scorecard]

22 hours ago, spoon1967 said:

I have been coming to Thailand 4 times a year for 12 years, was married there and have a Thai son.  Covid-19? I must of missed that.   Of course I'm well aware of the current situation, and yes I do plan to live permanently in Thailand and have a business, and I don't "smoke" anything.  

If you want to stay permanently perhaps you should check the details of Thai 'Permanent Residence', however the main requirement is holding a Thai work permit continuously for 3 years and proof that your Thai personal Tax returns for the 3 years have been filed and finalized by the Thai Revenue (tax) department.

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, Matt199 said:

Thank you @khunPer for sharing, but it seems that in this thread there isn't anything about what @meinphuket wrote, which is that if you had work permit from company A for a specific activity, you can perform work for company B as well for other activity. I would like to learn more about it.

There has been a number of threads or posts about it here the forum; I thought the link at bottom of the article would give you more facts.

However, this might be what you are looking for...
 

Quote

As a consequence, any foreigner who has a work permit in Thailand may now, work anywhere, for anyone, and do any type work, that is not excluded by the Official List.

The link is here "Thailand’s New Work Permit Law (part 2): any work, anywhere, for anyone".

[Wilson Smith]

On 6/8/2020 at 2:17 PM, spoon1967 said:

That's interesting, I had actually considered the Elite visa route, the added advantage of assistance when dealing with Gov authorities is a bonus.  The options I have are a retirement visa, however having 800k tied up isn't good, although in 2 years I'll have 500k+ in pension payments, so only 300k need be tied up, visa for supporting Thai child (my son is 8yrs), but there's still the need to exit/entry every 3 months, or of course the elite.  I take your experiences on board, I understand it can be diffucult, exspensive and worrying.

 

Thanks for your time in replying, I think the elite is best opton.

 

 

If you are concerned about "tying up" 800K than I would forget the opening a company option and elite option as well. 

[JackThompson]

On 6/8/2020 at 2:17 PM, spoon1967 said:

That's interesting, I had actually considered the Elite visa route, the added advantage of assistance when dealing with Gov authorities is a bonus.  The options I have are a retirement visa, however having 800k tied up isn't good, although in 2 years I'll have 500k+ in pension payments, so only 300k need be tied up, visa for supporting Thai child (my son is 8yrs), but there's still the need to exit/entry every 3 months, or of course the elite.  I take your experiences on board, I understand it can be diffucult, exspensive and worrying.

 

Thanks for your time in replying, I think the elite is best opton.

 

 

If you have a Thai child, you only need 400K in the bank on the date of application (no seasoning) or 40K/mo proven income to get a 1-year extension.  No need to leave the country.  You do not have to keep the money in the bank, except during the 30-day under-consideration period after you apply (and that, only at some immigration-offices).

 

It is illegal to work on an Elite - basically a glorified tourist-visa, which costs between 500K and 2M Baht cash to buy it.  This money is not "tied up" but, rather, "gone forever."

 

But, it is 100% legal to work while on a Non-O Extension based on Thai Family (wife or child).  That extension keeps your work-options open.  The cost is 1900 Baht per-year.

[spoon1967]

6 hours ago, JackThompson said:

If you have a Thai child, you only need 400K in the bank on the date of application (no seasoning) or 40K/mo proven income to get a 1-year extension.  No need to leave the country.  You do not have to keep the money in the bank, except during the 30-day under-consideration period after you apply (and that, only at some immigration-offices).

 

It is illegal to work on an Elite - basically a glorified tourist-visa, which costs between 500K and 2M Baht cash to buy it.  This money is not "tied up" but, rather, "gone forever."

 

But, it is 100% legal to work while on a Non-O Extension based on Thai Family (wife or child).  That extension keeps your work-options open.  The cost is 1900 Baht per-year.

Thanks for the info mate, this could be the best option for me for sure.

I'll visit a visa agency on my next trip and look into your suggestion.

 

[Forresttrump]

Sorry, don’t want to hijack the original post but looking for similar info.  I am stuck in the UK after returning from Thailand for my niece wedding.  The wedding was cancelled and my flight also, my reason for posting is that before going to Thailand I need 2016 I was a self employed photographer, a forbidden occupation in Thailand I believe.  I have read on TV that recently of a sad incident of a Ukrainian male whose wife was killed and that he had lived in Thailand as a freelance photographer for 5 years.  Is this possible as would be perfect for me.