Changing from Retirement to Marriage Visa

[Taccos]

I intend to change from O-A Retirement to Marriage visa. My current visa expires in July and my Stay Permit in September. How do I best go about obtaining the marriage visa in September and do I need to leave the country for this? Also, whilst the advantages are obvious, are there any disadvantages having a Marriage Visa compared to Retirement Visa?

[ubonjoe]

Normally I would suggest you do a border hop next month to get a new one year entry before your visa expires but I this time I am not sure you would be able to do it.

It should not be a problem to apply for an extension of stay based upon marriage instead of retirement. Just be prepared do it by having 400k baht in a Thai bank for 2 months or proof of 40k baht income.

There are no disadvantages to having an extension based upon marriage compared to retirment.

[Peter Denis]

If due to border-closures you are not able to do a border-run before your O-A Visa validity expires in July, unfortunately you will be losing the full 2nd year permission to stay your O-A Visa could have provided you when re-entering before Visa validity expiry date..

If the borders are still not open by September, when your current permission to stay will expire, you have several options:

 

a) Apply for a 60-day extension of stay at your local IO for reason of visiting your wife - that will give you time till November, by which the borders might be open again;

 

b) When the borders are open again by September or November, you could exit Thailand and apply for the 1-year MultipleEntry Non-Imm O marriage Visa at the thai consulate in Savannakhet, Laos or HoChiMin City, Vietnam.  Getting that Visa is an easy process, applying day 1 and collecting your passport with the visa next day with no financials required (except the 5.000 THB Visa fee).  It allows for 90-days permissions to stay on entry, and when timed right you can squeeze almost 17 months of IO hassle-free stay out of that Visa.

 

c) When the borders are not open again by September of November (and your permission to stay has not expired), you can apply at your local IO for a 1-year extension of your Non Imm O-A Visa for reason of marriage.

You would need to show 400K seasoned for 2 months on a personal thai bank-account on the day of application, or have started with monthly income transfers of 40K with foreign origins proven and being able to show at least 2 (some IOs require 3) transfers during the months preceding your application. 

You would need to keep the 400K on your personal thai bank-account until your application was approved when using the money-in-bank method, after which you are free to use that money how you please, and will need to top up again to 400K two months before applying for your next 1-year extension of stay.  When using the monthly-income transfer method you would need to provide evidence of 400K being transfered each in every month, with foreign origins proven.

Note: If your Embassy still provides income-statement letters, you can also make use of that method for your application.

>> In case you choose for option c) it is recommended to visit your local IO prior to applying for the 1-year extension of your Non Imm O-A Visa for reason of marriage.  Your local IO might have additional or different requirements, and that would prevent you from being 'taken by surprise' on application.

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Peter Denis

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

b) When the borders are open again by September or November, you could exit Thailand and apply for the 1-year MultipleEntry Non-Imm O marriage Visa at the thai consulate in Savannakhet, Laos or HoChiMin City, Vietnam.

I would suggest that being the last and worst case option. Many people are wishing now they had not gotten one and are rushing to get extensions now that the borders are closed.

Not everybody wants to do border runs for a new 90 day entry when they end or getting a 60 day extension after each entry.

[Taccos]

Thanks for both you quick and comprehensive reply. I will probably go with option C in September.

[ardsong]

If I remember well, the extension based on marriage requires a lot more paperwork, e.g. ID papers your wife, marriage cert, house photo's , routeplan to house etc. Also the papers had to be send to Bangkok for approval taking a 30 day waiting period.

My IO advised against it and quickly helped me with an extension based on retirement.

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, Taccos said:

Also, whilst the advantages are obvious, are there any disadvantages having a Marriage Visa compared to Retirement Visa?

You didn't say, but is your marriage from abroad? If so, you're heading for a headache. First and foremost, you may not even be able to get a marriage certificate acceptable to Immigration. Why? Your embassy/consulate is probably closed  -- and you need an affidavit from them attesting to the validity of your marriage. Then, this affidavit and your marriage certificate need to be certifiably translated into Thai. Then, a trip to MFA to validate such certified translations. Then, when MFA validates such, you need a trip to your local Amphur, which may want your poo yai baan to accompany you, in order to receive your Kor Ror 22. This is the form you give to Immigration. Other problems? You need pictures of you and your wife next to your address post, plus another one from inside the house. Color or black n white -- portrait or landscape? Ubonjoe can guide you here. Then, of course, the wife must go with you to Immigration -- and you'll have to return 30 days later for the finalized extension. Certainly, if money were not a question, the retirement extension stands out -- particularly if renewal time finds a sickly -- or expired -- wife.

 

If young enough now to do all the wickets to maintain a retirement visa (i.e., healthy enough to travel conveniently), that would be my suggestion. Sickness later on, either you or wife, will make a marriage extension problematic.

[bodga]

16 minutes ago, ardsong said:

My IO advised against it

As its  less work for them, I  too was  "advised"  this but declined as I don't want to tie  up 800k.

[JimGant]

Oh, I completely forgot -- if borders closed, embassy closed -- get the OA medical insurance policy from LMG to extend you OA visa based on retirement. Max you can expect to pay for this is 11,800 (11,400, forgot?) -- less if you're under age 70. Cheap, really, if you're confronted with all the roadblocks to border runs and marriage certificate certifications.

[Peter Denis]

21 minutes ago, ardsong said:

If I remember well, the extension based on marriage requires a lot more paperwork, e.g. ID papers your wife, marriage cert, house photo's , routeplan to house etc. Also the papers had to be send to Bangkok for approval taking a 30 day waiting period.

My IO advised against it and quickly helped me with an extension based on retirement.

Yes, an application for a Non Imm O marriage Visa or extension, does require considerable more admin-work, than a an application for a Non Imm O retirement Visa or extension. 

But the financial reward is considerable, so opting for the marriage application road is worthwhile if you don't mind the extra admin burden.  Also, it's mainly the very first application that is difficult, subsequent application are just a repeat (but do require updates of all the documents).

Surely IO will often advise against it because it is not only much paperwork for the applicant, but also for them.  And IO of course is not enthusiastic when you apply for a Marriage Visa or extension because on top of the extra paper-work such applications needs to be approved by divisional headquarters, so their work is 'checked'.

[Peter Denis]

23 minutes ago, JimGant said:

...

If young enough now to do all the wickets to maintain a retirement visa (i.e., healthy enough to travel conveniently), that would be my suggestion. Sickness later on, either you or wife, will make a marriage extension problematic.

I agree with your first paragraph (not quoted) that if your marriage with a thai national was done abroad, that OP will have to face the extra headache of getting a thai-accepted equivalent of that foreign marriage.

But I do not understand your last paragraph.  Why would it be more difficult when sick, to apply for a marriage extension rather than for a retirement extension?

 

[Bruce Aussie Chiang Mai]

26 minutes ago, JimGant said:

You didn't say, but is your marriage from abroad? If so, you're heading for a headache. First and foremost, you may not even be able to get a marriage certificate acceptable to Immigration. Why? Your embassy/consulate is probably closed  -- and you need an affidavit from them attesting to the validity of your marriage. Then, this affidavit and your marriage certificate need to be certifiably translated into Thai. Then, a trip to MFA to validate such certified translations. Then, when MFA validates such, you need a trip to your local Amphur, which may want your poo yai baan to accompany you, in order to receive your Kor Ror 22. This is the form you give to Immigration. Other problems? You need pictures of you and your wife next to your address post, plus another one from inside the house. Color or black n white -- portrait or landscape? Ubonjoe can guide you here. Then, of course, the wife must go with you to Immigration -- and you'll have to return 30 days later for the finalized extension. Certainly, if money were not a question, the retirement extension stands out -- particularly if renewal time finds a sickly -- or expired -- wife.

 

If young enough now to do all the wickets to maintain a retirement visa (i.e., healthy enough to travel conveniently), that would be my suggestion. Sickness later on, either you or wife, will make a marriage extension problematic.

Further to translated overseas marriage certificate if been married before you need copy of divorce certificate.

Think that will be required to get form 22 from Amphur.

I currently in process of doing change ext of O-A

[JimGant]

14 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

But I do not understand your last paragraph.  Why would it be more difficult when sick, to apply for a marriage extension rather than for a retirement extension?

 

Ah, you caught me. I meant if the wife were sick -- and you needed her presence at IO for a renewal. Probably a letter from her doctor would suffice. But if she's dead -- back to the 800k for retirement -- and TGIA medical if you're still emanating from your original OA visa. Just pointing out that, going now to a marriage extension, if easy enough, in order to avoid the medical requirement for the OA retirement extension -- could revert back to the original problem of TGIA insurance.

 

But, hey, if you're an old fart with a dashing raven haired damsel of 25 years -- by all means, go for the marriage extension. ????

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

You didn't say, but is your marriage from abroad? If so, you're heading for a headache. First and foremost, you may not even be able to get a marriage certificate acceptable to Immigration. Why? Your embassy/consulate is probably closed  -- and you need an affidavit from them attesting to the validity of your marriage.

This would be a particular PITA for the OP if he was British. The Bangkok Embassy wouldn't issue him with an affidavit under any circumstances. Instead he would need to subject himself to a cumbersomely bureaucratic legalisation process in relation to his UK marriage certificate (if this was, indeed, what he had) as spelt out in its gory detail in the following link:-

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/714089/Legalisation_info_June_2018.pdf

 

 

[natway09]

Been married here for 18 years but would not even consider a marriage visa/extension.

Unless you are in financial difficulties try to avoid just for the intrusion into your lives alone.

They started making it more difficult when the "arranged marriage" scandal was at it's peak

so I am not saying I don't agree with them 

[Peter Denis]

13 minutes ago, natway09 said:

Been married here for 18 years but would not even consider a marriage visa/extension.

Unless you are in financial difficulties try to avoid just for the intrusion into your lives alone.

They started making it more difficult when the "arranged marriage" scandal was at it's peak

so I am not saying I don't agree with them 

When not wanting to apply in-country for the marriage Visa/extension, because of the admin-hoops and intrusion, you can of course opt for the easier retirement Visa extension if the higher financials to be proven are no issue.

Another option is to apply for the 1-year MultipleEntry Non Imm O marriage Visa at a thai consulate abroad.  An easy process, no intrusion (you never have to deal with your local IO when going that road) nor financials required. > See suggested option b) in my post #3

Edited June 15, 2020 by Peter Denis

[thaiwally]

Just finished the process of changing my OA Visa based on retirement to an O visa based on Marriage. Crossed the boarder into Vientiane and obtained a 90day O visa, then applied for O extension in Nonthaburi. A lot of paperwork involved, and a photocopy of every page of my application, instead of being about 25 pages long was double (50 pages, which they made into 2 seperate applications) When the 3 IMO's did the house visit they had one of the copies in hand. Arrrived at immigration on the 90th day to pick up my 12 month extension of stay. After handing over my passport it took an hour and half of seeing my passport, including the two applications, passed to and fro, from one IMO to another, before finally handing back my passport with the 12 month extension stamp. I was surprised that I wasn't asked for my bank book update, to ensure that I had kept the at least 400,000Baht in the bank. It then took another half hour to go through the proccess to doing my 90day report and multi entry permit.

[Peter Denis]

17 minutes ago, thaiwally said:

Just finished the process of changing my OA Visa based on retirement to an O visa based on Marriage. Crossed the boarder into Vientiane and obtained a 90day O visa, then applied for O extension in Nonthaburi.

Thanks for your report, but I have two questions:

1 - Why did you not apply at your local IO for the 1-year extension based on your Non Imm O-A Visa for reason of MARRIAGE?

2 - Why did you apply at the Vientiane Embassy for your 90-day Non Imm O marriage Visa, instead of returning VisaExempt after a quick border-run and applying at your local IO for the 90-day Non Imm O marriage Visa?

[bert bloggs]

1 hour ago, natway09 said:

Been married here for 18 years but would not even consider a marriage visa/extension.

Unless you are in financial difficulties try to avoid just for the intrusion into your lives alone.

They started making it more difficult when the "arranged marriage" scandal was at it's peak

so I am not saying I don't agree with them 

I changed at the end of the year ,was married in the UK so had to get translations etc done ,luckily i went for my holiday to the UK and did it there ,no problem ,did it all in a couple of weeks ,

to be honest i just followed Ubanjoes list ,did it at Jomtien ,not intrusive in the least ,even when they came to our house chatting to my wife and our neighbour,only there 20 or so minutes . my wife is quite articulate ,so left most of it to her ,although i was with her .

if you have the time do it ,why give them 400k which you can never use?

[thaiwally]

Thanks for your report, but I have two questions:

1 - Why did you not apply at your local IO for the 1-year extension based on your Non Imm O-A Visa for reason of MARRIAGE?

2 - Why did you apply at the Vientiane Embassy for your 90-day Non Imm O marriage Visa, instead of returning VisaExempt after a quick border-run and applying at your local IO for the 90-day Non Imm O marriage Visa?

 

1 - I was under the impression that if I applied for O-A extension based on marriage that I would be subject to paying health insurance. Is that not so?

2 - Didn't know I could do, but it was an fairly easy proccess in Vientiane....took about an hour to apply....45min of waiting at the gate (In the sun...no shade) and about 20min doing the application (Had to redo another application, as they wouldn't except the form downloaded form the website) Then spent another hour next day picking up my passport. (I forgot to mention, as you may know, you have to pre-book your visit to the Thai embassy in Vientiane. I booked in advance, so I recieved a low number allowing me to enter the embassy in good time)

Sorry if I'm a bit naive and I know I am technically challenged, but after browsing Thaivisa, I thought I was doing the right thing.

 

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, thaiwally said:

Thanks for your report, but I have two questions:

1 - Why did you not apply at your local IO for the 1-year extension based on your Non Imm O-A Visa for reason of MARRIAGE?

2 - Why did you apply at the Vientiane Embassy for your 90-day Non Imm O marriage Visa, instead of returning VisaExempt after a quick border-run and applying at your local IO for the 90-day Non Imm O marriage Visa?

 

1 - I was under the impression that if I applied for O-A extension based on marriage that I would be subject to paying health insurance. Is that not so?

2 - Didn't know I could do, but it was an fairly easy proccess in Vientiane....took about an hour to apply....45min of waiting at the gate (In the sun...no shade) and about 20min doing the application (Had to redo another application, as they wouldn't except the form downloaded form the website) Then spent another hour next day picking up my passport. (I forgot to mention, as you may know, you have to pre-book your visit to the Thai embassy in Vientiane. I booked in advance, so I recieved a low number allowing me to enter the embassy in good time)

Sorry if I'm a bit naive and I know I am technically challenged, but after browsing Thaivisa, I thought I was doing the right thing.

Thanks for response,

1 - The thai IO-approved health-insurance requirement is only applicable when you apply for the 1-year extension based on your original Non Imm O-A Visa for reason of retirement.  When applying for another reason (e.g. marriage, dependant child or other) the requirements are different and the health-insurance is not required.

2 - Yes, you could have also applied in-country for the 90-day Non Imm O marriage Visa, but it requires that you first do a border-run (in order to 'kill' the permission to stay of your Non Imm O-A Visa).

[thaiwally]

Thanks, Peter....As they say, you learn something everyday....especially in my case. I did ask around, but I came up with the same advice. Maybe I'm just getting a bit old in the tooth. Been here on a retirement visa for 15 years. Anyway I must say my wife and I enoyed our trip to Vientinane, being our honeymoon!

[brianthainess]

As everyone will tell you every I/O run their own rules This is my list from Trat and is IMO one of the most stringent This is the list. (they also tried to dissuade me from changing as they also don't like all the extra work, their work is also up for more scrutiny from above)

[Peter Denis]

39 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

As everyone will tell you every I/O run their own rules This is my list from Trat and is IMO one of the most stringent This is the list. (they also tried to dissuade me from changing as they also don't like all the extra work, their work is also up for more scrutiny from above)

...

Thanks for sharing this list in your post #23 with the requirements at Trat IO when applying for the 1-year extension based on your Non Imm O Visa for family reasons.

It clearly demonstrates that a Visa/extension application for reason of marriage requires a lot more documentation than a Visa/extension application for reason of retirement. 

A few comments:

1 - Do check at your local IO as their requirements will probably be somewhat different (and not so extensive) as what they require at the Trat IO for a marriage extension application.

2 - With #7 Trat IO makes it difficult to apply using the monthly-income transfer method, as their additional requirements go well beyond the usual bank-documents to prove you made monthly +40K income transfers to your personal bank-account.  So to meet the financial requirements you would almost be forced to go for the #6 400K bank-deposit method.

3 - #14 is a tricky one > Others as requested by the officer.  When you are renting, and they want the landlord to accompany you when doing the application that might put you in an impossible situation if the landlord is residing far away (or abroad).

[Boomer6969]

22 hours ago, natway09 said:

Been married here for 18 years but would not even consider a marriage visa/extension.

Unless you are in financial difficulties try to avoid just for the intrusion into your lives alone.

Leads me to wonder whether you know what you are talking about. Been extending for marriage for the past five year without undue intrusion. I let my wife handle the process, which makes my live easy as she is the best "agent" I could wish for. 

Also, the OP holds and OA visa, so he'll avoid the BS heath insurance nuisance by extending for marriage.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Boomer6969

[Malawi]

5 minutes ago, Boomer6969 said:

Leads me to wonder whether you know what you are talking about. Been extending for marriage for the past five year without undue intrusion. I let my wife handle the process, which makes my live easy as she is the best "agent" I could wish for. 

Also the OP holds and OA visa, so he'll avoid the BS heath insurance nuisance by extending for marriage.

Correct. Mariage extensions are pretty straightforward to do.

Don't believe all the scare stories as they are simply not true.

[OneeyedJohn]

Nothing is straightforward here, I was handed a red card last year stipulating the requirements for an extension based on marriage.

It had 14 requirements.

 

Dragging your wife along with you to Immigration is not one of those 14 requirements, but you still have to do it.

[ubonjoe]

37 minutes ago, OneeyedJohn said:

Dragging your wife along with you to Immigration is not one of those 14 requirements, but you still have to do it.

It may of indirectly been on the list if it mentioned a statement or affidavit on it. You wife has to complete and sign it and you as well in front of a immigration officer.

[Boomer6969]

3 hours ago, OneeyedJohn said:

Dragging your wife along with you to Immigration

Dragging??? Surely, you'd better get another kind of extension..

[JackThompson]

23 hours ago, brianthainess said:

As everyone will tell you every I/O run their own rules This is my list from Trat and is IMO one of the most stringent This is the list.

That is great they provide an actual printed list.  My experience has been IOs providing verbal "also need" - then adding an additionial one or two each time you return.

 

Note on the "using income" portion - I met these (and had more) when I applied at CW Bangkok, and was "verbally" given a list which amounted to the proof needed for a Non-B - including all documented my work had already provided for the work-permit I already had.

 

When looking at the list, again - I can only guess they took Western nation's "permanent residence for married to a citizen" list, and then applied many of the conditions to their annual, temporary extensions.

  

On 6/15/2020 at 4:08 PM, natway09 said:

Been married here for 18 years but would not even consider a marriage visa/extension.

Unless you are in financial difficulties try to avoid just for the intrusion into your lives alone.

They started making it more difficult when the "arranged marriage" scandal was at it's peak

so I am not saying I don't agree with them 

Could you provide information on this "arranged marriage" scandal?  I recall a couple of news stories of a couple guys from very poor nations, doing something like this.  These were insignficant in quantity, and certainly not applicable for those coming from nations with much higher wages than offered in Thailand, who lack a higher-income incentive to live here. 

Having watched this over years - in every case of "making things more difficult" - whether for ED Visas, or Retirement Visas - the "agent system" was always the beneficiary.  I the case of Non-O Marriage, it is an extra 10K to 15K for the District-Office in Agent-laundered money.  If immigration were really worried about people "faking" qualifications for extensions, their first action would be to make "fixers" illegal.  The fact they do NOT do this, proves this is not at all the purpose of ANY of these extra hurdles - it is to push more applicants to agents.