question on Non 0 retirement extention

[rken2]

My retirement visa expire july 19. the last time I renewed I used the 800 thousand deposit method. I have been depositing 65,000 baht for a year now and want to switch from 800 thousand bank deposit method to the 65,000 per month method. I keep 800,000 in the bank for 3 month, and then 400 for an additional 6 months. I then withdrew the 400 baht. Do you think the 65.000 method for one year will be accepted. thanks

[ubonjoe]

It will depend upon the immigration office where you apply. They should accept it but it would of been best to of kept it at 400k baht until you apply for your extension.

I assume you will have proof of 12 months of 65k baht or more of transfers from abroad,

[rken2]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

It will depend upon the immigration office where you apply. They should accept it but it would of been best to of kept it at 400k baht until you apply for your extension.

I assume you will have proof of 12 months of 65k baht or more of transfers from abroad,

Yes, I have bank statements showing the deposit coming from a foreign bank for 12 months. thank for your response.

I will be applying in Chiang Mai

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by rken2

[john terry1001]

37 minutes ago, rken2 said:

My retirement visa expire july 19. the last time I renewed I used the 800 thousand deposit method. I have been depositing 65,000 baht for a year now and want to switch from 800 thousand bank deposit method to the 65,000 per month method. I keep 800,000 in the bank for 3 month, and then 400 for an additional 6 months. I then withdrew the 400 baht. Do you think the 65.000 method for one year will be accepted. thanks

I believe that under the 800k option, to validate it for the full year, you should have kept the 800k for the first three months and a minimum of 400k for the remaining nine months. By taking the money out early you didn't comply with those rules so may have voided your existing extension by doing so and could technically be on overstay. As you want to continue extending your stay (just using a different financial method) you will probably find different IO's will interpret the rules differently.

 

if I've miss-understood the rules, I'm sure UJ will clarify.

[flossie35]

18 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It will depend upon the immigration office where you apply. They should accept it but it would of been best to of kept it at 400k baht until you apply for your extension.

I assume you will have proof of 12 months of 65k baht or more of transfers from abroad,

If you have the misfortune to be a UK citizen you will need to allow for possible further depreciation of the GBP because of brexit - ie will your monthly GBPs amount to the requisite 63,000 baht?

[kensisaket]

I use this method. About 2 weeks before you go to renew stop by your bank to request an annual statement. They may have to request it from Bangkok; thus, the 2 weeks lead time. Additionally, the day you pick up that statement get another letter showing current balance. Bkk Bank charges 200 baht for the annual statement; and, an additional 100 for the balance letter.

[Brickbat]

19 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It will depend upon the immigration office where you apply. They should accept it but it would of been best to of kept it at 400k baht until you apply for your extension.

I assume you will have proof of 12 months of 65k baht or more of transfers from abroad,

I am doing the same . Switching from annual 800K to monthly income 65K .

My agent told me I had to keep the 400K in the bank until I get my next extension. 

[crutchy26]

I have just done, what you are proposing. Monday morning, did it in Kohn Kaen. Went to KTB (smaller branch), and they did not know of Immi requirements. Just printed-out 12 months of transactions.

I was still shy of the Magic Letter. Sure enough, rejected by Immi , back to a larger branch: The letter I received had nothing about 65 000 per month. Just a statement/letter of my balance!!!

Also required docs of where my income comes from. (It was in English, but it kept Immi happy ???? )

Then, it was a fine-tooth comb, going through the tree which just been sacrificed (printed 12 months of transaction.

And the mountain of paper had, TM6, TM7, all pages of passport, passbook pages, lease agreement........

That's my story & I am sticking to it.

 

 

[Presnock]

I renewed my long stay extension at CM immigration using the monthly deposit of at least 65000.  I bank at Bangkok bank, I went to the bank a week early to check on what I needed and how long would it take to provide such info.  Bangkok bank also does a monthly "credit advise" indicating how much money was deposited that month by whom from what overseas bank acct, to what bangkok bank acct.  I didn't realize they did this until I noticed someone on TVforum mentioning it.  Thus, to insure the IO was inundated with banking info, the bank officer (my new acct for me only instead of w/wife) told me he could provide me with the letter from the bank indicating that this was my acct solely, a statement of the monthly deposits by month, and copies of each of the credit advise for each month, saying he only needed one day advance notice to provide such documentation but that it in total would cost 500 baht.  In addition, I provided to the immigration, a copy of my monthly statements from the retirement income source w/ january of each year spelling out exactly what I would get per month.  Then I had a graph provided by that provider showing exactly what they paid me each month plus a copy of every page of my bankbook! which I updated just before going to immigration. I also included fm my US bank, copies of deposits from the provider each month, and a copy of the transfer requests fm me to my bank moving the funds each month to Bangkok Bank.  In other words, I had a regular book size documentation.  The IO at immigration, looked at all documents, said "lots of banking" and laughed.  Then he stamped my passport, said no problems and told me to wait outside the office.  5 minutes later, a young lady took my picture and returned my passport to me .  Total time waiting from start to finish was 45 minutes as there were a lot of people renewing extensions.  I realize I overdid it but just to insure they didn't ask for more.  No questions asked!
 

[norbra]

I have recently renewed my extension at CW,Senior IO wanted to see CREDIT ADVICE/RECEIPT supporting every 65K transaction.

These are free of charge at KBank but you must request them from their call centre.

IO advised that I should get them following each transaction as a request for the document older than 3 months will cost 500thb for each transaction you require.

[theoldgit]

11 minutes ago, norbra said:

I have recently renewed my extension at CW,Senior IO wanted to see CREDIT ADVICE/RECEIPT supporting every 65K transaction.

These are free of charge at KBank but you must request them from their call centre.

IO advised that I should get them following each transaction as a request for the document older than 3 months will cost 500thb for each transaction you require.

 

For those who bank at Bangkok Bank it's worth noting that you can request that the Credit Advice is sent automatically.
I'd heard about this option but with all things bank related I was a tad scepitical, I asked in my branch, the guy filled in a form and now, sure enough, I'm sent one by email about 30 mins after the cash is deposited into my account.
I do wonder why the Thai Immigration bods want the same information in multiple formats, but maybe I shouldn't.

[LawrenceN]

21 hours ago, rken2 said:

Yes, I have bank statements showing the deposit coming from a foreign bank for 12 months. thank for your response.

I will be applying in Chiang Mai

 

I thought I was good to go, too, this past January, also in CM. I had bank statements showing those regular monthly deposits, and matching monthly statements from my retirement fund. That was not good enough for CM Imm. It came down to three little letters: FTT in the bank statements. My fund couldn't - or wouldn't - match Bangkok Bank's strict ACH standard, so my monthly transfers started coming by a slightly different method. It made no difference to me, but the FTT was dropped. The transfers were accomplished by using a different partner bank in Thailand, so the transfer now looks like a domestic transfer to Bangkok Bank. If each of your transfers has FTT at the beginning of each line in your passbook, you're good to go. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

I think those concentrating only on the 65K deposits are missing what might be the more critical issue, which is that the poster did not maintain the 400K minimum amount in their account for the full 12 months as required for his previous extension to remain valid.

 

As @Brickbat

mentions, an agent would have advised to keep the 400K there until the new extension was granted.

 

Since @rken2 is changing to the monthly income method, I suppose the Immigration Office might be prepared to overlook this as a technicality but I wouldn't like to count on it.

[john terry1001]

2 hours ago, LawrenceN said:

I thought I was good to go, too, this past January, also in CM. I had bank statements showing those regular monthly deposits, and matching monthly statements from my retirement fund. That was not good enough for CM Imm. It came down to three little letters: FTT in the bank statements. My fund couldn't - or wouldn't - match Bangkok Bank's strict ACH standard, so my monthly transfers started coming by a slightly different method. It made no difference to me, but the FTT was dropped. The transfers were accomplished by using a different partner bank in Thailand, so the transfer now looks like a domestic transfer to Bangkok Bank. If each of your transfers has FTT at the beginning of each line in your passbook, you're good to go.

Take a look at transferring your money to Thailand using Transferwise. You will get a better and guaranteed exchange rate, their charges are very low and they've set up their system so, if used correctly, when transferring to the Bangkok Bank you will definitely get the required 'FTT' code recorded on your account statement and bank passbook.

Edited June 25, 2020 by john terry1001

[Max69xl]

On 6/24/2020 at 1:39 PM, john terry1001 said:

I believe that under the 800k option, to validate it for the full year, you should have kept the 800k for the first three months and a minimum of 400k for the remaining nine months. By taking the money out early you didn't comply with those rules so may have voided your existing extension by doing so and could technically be on overstay. As you want to continue extending your stay (just using a different financial method) you will probably find different IO's will interpret the rules differently.

 

if I've miss-understood the rules, I'm sure UJ will clarify.

You must have at least 400k until 2 months before next application when you have to top it up to 800k again. That means 400k for 7 months at the most.

[john terry1001]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

You must have at least 400k until 2 months before next application when you have to top it up to 800k again. That means 400k for 7 months at the most.

If, like the OP, you are changing for the 800k option to the monthly income option you do NOT have to top the money in the bank up to 800k again two months before your extension.

 

When changing to the monthly income option, what you do have to do is maintain the 400k in the bank for the full nine months, until your current extension expires. Failure to do this invalidates your existing extension.

 

Plus, to qualify for the monthly income option, you must also have transferred a minimum of 65k baht into Thailand every month for the twelve months of your existing extension that was based on the money in the bank option. 

[LawrenceN]

On 6/25/2020 at 1:08 PM, john terry1001 said:

Take a look at transferring your money to Thailand using Transferwise. You will get a better and guaranteed exchange rate, their charges are very low and they've set up their system so, if used correctly, when transferring to the Bangkok Bank you will definitely get the required 'FTT' code recorded on your account statement and bank passbook.

Since my renewal in January, I stopped the transfer from my private fund, and started depositing my Social Security to Bangkok Bank. I thought that would take care of it. But NnOoOOoo! Social Security now uses a method that doesn't show FTT when it gets to Bangkok Bank either. Does anybody know if SSA in Manila is responsive to requests to make it work right? 

[ubonjoe]

25 minutes ago, LawrenceN said:

Since my renewal in January, I stopped the transfer from my private fund, and started depositing my Social Security to Bangkok Bank. I thought that would take care of it. But NnOoOOoo! Social Security now uses a method that doesn't show FTT when it gets to Bangkok Bank either. Does anybody know if SSA in Manila is responsive to requests to make it work right? 

You apparently set up a International Direct Deposit (IDD) to your account. That arrives in the country in baht and it goes to the Bank of Thailand first. You can request credit advices for each one that will prove they came from abroad.

You have to set up a direct deposit account at Bangkok Bank to have the transfers done via their New York branch for them to be shown as FTT transfers. Info can be found here. https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

[rken2]

Thanks guys for all your input. Now I am more confused than before. lol

We will see how it goes and I will update the thread after I appy for the extention.  One thing I noticed is that many of you listed your source of income ie SSI or retirement payment. My source of income is partially from SSI but also from rental properties I hold In Hawaii. So I am not sure how I would show proof of income from all the sources as some rent is derived from monthy rental income with no lease and rental agreement. what a ride

[Peter Denis]

11 minutes ago, rken2 said:

Thanks guys for all your input. Now I am more confused than before. lol

We will see how it goes and I will update the thread after I appy for the extention.  One thing I noticed is that many of you listed your source of income ie SSI or retirement payment. My source of income is partially from SSI but also from rental properties I hold In Hawaii. So I am not sure how I would show proof of income from all the sources as some rent is derived from monthy rental income with no lease and rental agreement. what a ride

Don't want to confuse you further, but some info of possible relevance:

1 - As usual, there is no clear immigration regulation on what requirements need to be met when switching from the 800K/400K money-in-bank method to the monthly-income transfer method.

The ONLY sure-fire way of not encountering any trouble when doing that switch, is when FULLY meeting the requirements for both methods during the 12 months preceding your application.

2 - For the money-in-bank method, that means that you need to keep at least 800K on your personal thai bank-account during the first 3 and last 2 months of the preceding year, on the moment when applying for the 1-year extension of stay.  And that during the intermediate 7 months you did not slip below the 400K tresshold.

>> Since you did not meet that requirement, IO MIGHT argue that you were not on a valid extension of stay and that hence you cannot apply for a 1-year extension of stay (even if you would meet the requirements using a different method, like the monthly-income transfer method).

3 - But - unless they want to do difficult - chances are slim they will refuse your application for a 1-year extension when you fully meet the requirements for the monthly income-transfers of +40K during each and every month of the 12 months preceding your application.

That means that the foreign origin of those 12 +40K transfers also needs to be proven, and that might involve the 'Foreign Transfer' code next to the transfer in your bank-book (e.g. FTT when using Bangkok Bank), or in case some of those codes are missing 'credit receipts' from the thai bank where the funds entered Thailand, proving that the 40K was not a domestic transfer, but came from a foreign source.

On top of the above, when using the monthly income-transfer method, the Immigration officer handling your application has the discretionary power to also request proof of the SOURCE of that foreign income (and some IOs only accept a pension-statement as proof of source of your foreign income).

 

[rken2]

All of my transfers show the correct code in my bank book and on line statements. I use bangkok bank with transfers handled via tranferwise. great company, easy to use and inexpensive. I still need to get my letter from the bank listing my transfers and ownership of the account  I will be going there after the first and my last transfer is made. I suspect there will be no problems. I also am taking my us bank statements and transferwise  statements. Here's hoping all goes well.

[Peter Denis]

8 hours ago, rken2 said:

All of my transfers show the correct code in my bank book and on line statements. I use bangkok bank with transfers handled via tranferwise. great company, easy to use and inexpensive. I still need to get my letter from the bank listing my transfers and ownership of the account  I will be going there after the first and my last transfer is made. I suspect there will be no problems. I also am taking my us bank statements and transferwise  statements. Here's hoping all goes well.

1 - Don't wait till the last moment to get the 12-month bank-statement.  It can take up to a week before you get it, as your local bank can only provide 6-month statements.  So that 12-month one  has to come from bank HQ.  Contrary to your bank-book which needs to be updated same day as when you do your application, IO will accept a 12-month bank-statement that has been issued less than 1 week before application.

2 - The Immigration officer that handles your application has the discretionary power to request you also provide evidence of the SOURCE of the foreign transfers you made.  So in case he/she does request it, better be prepared and bring the evidence with you.

Note: Some IOs only accept a pension-statement as evidence, so might involve some persuading when your foreign income is from a different source.

 

[Henryford]

I was considering moving from the 800k in the bank to 65k a month method but the many complications and confusion listed above has convinced me to stick with the 800k.

[Peter Denis]

10 minutes ago, Henryford said:

I was considering moving from the 800k in the bank to 65k a month method but the many complications and confusion listed above has convinced me to stick with the 800k.

Agree, it is tricky to change the method for proving your financials 'mid-way', as the only sure-fire way to ensure you would not be confronted with any problems is that at the moment of application for the renewal of your 1-year extension of stay, that you fully meet the requirements for both methods.

But obviously you can switch method to prove your financials, when the permission to stay based on your original Visa is due to expire, and you exit Thailand.  On return VisaExempt or on a Tourist Visa you can then apply for a NEW Non Imm O Visa at your local IO (the financials then only need to be on your personal bank-account at the moment of application - so no need for seasoning).  Alternatively, when you got the new Non Imm O Visa in your home-country or in a thai embassy/consulate in an adjacent country to Thailand, you can on return then immediately apply for the 1-year extension of stay at your local IO, and in that case only two months of seasoning is required for the method of your choice to prove your financials.

[ubonjoe]

33 minutes ago, Henryford said:

I was considering moving from the 800k in the bank to 65k a month method but the many complications and confusion listed above has convinced me to stick with the 800k.

You could do it if you kept 800k baht in the bank for 3 months after your previous application and then kept 400k baht in bank until you apply for the extension.

[john terry1001]

On 6/28/2020 at 7:44 AM, Peter Denis said:

The Immigration officer that handles your application has the discretionary power to request you also provide evidence of the SOURCE of the foreign transfers you made.  So in case he/she does request it, better be prepared and bring the evidence with you.

A possible problem here can occur because the 'proof of pension/income' document is likely to be a letter/statement written in English by a UK/US/AUS pension/income provider, that will vary from company to company/Country to Country, and the IO probably MIGHT NOT even understand them. 

 

That happened to me because I have three pensions in the UK, one State Pension, one Company pension and one private pension from an annuity. All letters from each source look completely different.

 

The IO couldn't understand them so didn't want to accept any of them. And, when trying to explain, this was compounded by the law, which is written in Thai, and refers to 'pension' (singular?). So the IO interpreted that as only allowing one pension anyway. I had even printed off my UK Bank statement which showed my three pensions (named) and deposited each month but that didn't help...........only one pension allowed was the answer. 

 

After refusing to accept the IO's interpretation, I was eventually shown into the 'Boss Lady's Office' who did understand the system and the 'proof of pension letters'. She was all smiles,accepted all my paperwork and explained it all to the IO.

 

This was the first marriage extension they had processed since the monthly transfer option came into force and the only suggestion she did make was to have the 'English proof of pension letters' translated into Thai for the benefit of the IO. 

[Peter Denis]

17 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

...

After refusing to accept the IO's interpretation, I was eventually shown into the 'Boss Lady's Office' who did understand the system and the 'proof of pension letters'. She was all smiles,accepted all my paperwork and explained it all to the IO.

...

Thanks for sharing your experience, when being asked for evidence re the SOURCE of foreign income. 

It proves that you should not take NO for an answer when you are sure that you meet the requirements but the IO desk officer handling your case does not understand (and then the easy answer is NO or insisting on their faulty interpretation).

Firmly but politely requesting to talk to the IO officer in charge, will often solve the matter.

[rken2]

 No where in the Thai immigration laws have I seen where it states that income must come from pensions only. Its states that you must show transfers from a foreign bank to a thai bank of 65 or more on a regular basis.  Any clarification would be appreciated.

[Peter Denis]

10 minutes ago, rken2 said:

 No where in the Thai immigration laws have I seen where it states that income must come from pensions only. Its states that you must show transfers from a foreign bank to a thai bank of 65 or more on a regular basis.  Any clarification would be appreciated.

Attached the thai IO regulations, addressing that the foreign income must come from pension.

1 - When applying in country for a Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement, using the monthly-income transfer method

>> See document 1551323081128 - clause 6

2 - When applying in country for a 1-year extension of stay based on your Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement or family

>> See document 580231773 - under Document and Procedures

 

1551323081128 - Non Imm O retirement requirements.pdf 590231773_Amendmenttopoliceorder138-2557(Eng).pdf

[rken2]

I know you all have been waiting with bated breath to hear the outcome, so here it is.

 

In and out in 20 mins. checked the bank deposits by two different people, No mention of the previous requirement of 400k not shown in the account since june 1st

 

 

I was ready with proof of income sources via, retirement and house rentals, was not asked for. Easy Peasy any question please ask. Thanks for all your input. Oh by the way this was done at CM.

Edited July 10, 2020 by rken2