SURVEY: High end tourists—good idea or a flop?

[zoltannyc]

High-end visitors will seek high-end facilities and services and low-end visitors will look on the low end.

So on the high-end a rich guy let's call him C.P. will develop 5 star resorts, Michelin star restaurants and provide world class services and his group will charge accordingly. He pays his employees peanuts so he earns a tidy profit and moves up on the  Forbes 500 a couple of places, which is great.

On the low end Somchai and his family will build a guesthouse for low end tourist and his wife Pueng will run an eatery for the same crowd most of the money they make goes to the family, maybe the kids get better education, or the family better healthcare or get a car instead the motocy to get around, which all lead to better life and most probably longer life expectancy.

 

Nothing wrong with targeting a niche market however don't throw away the baby with the bathwater.

 

"The Tourism Council of Thailand (TCT) estimates the total number of workers including related hospitality services such as tour companies and other attractions could total 4.3 million" Let's say that 20% of tourists are high-end and served by 40% of all workers and chase away the rest of the tourists, that means that means that ~2.6 million will loose their jobs too.

[Trillian]

5 minutes ago, zoltannyc said:

High-end visitors will seek high-end facilities and services and low-end visitors will look on the low end.

So on the high-end a rich guy let's call him C.P. will develop 5 star resorts, Michelin star restaurants and provide world class services and his group will charge accordingly. He pays his employees peanuts so he earns a tidy profit and moves up on the  Forbes 500 a couple of places, which is great.

On the low end Somchai and his family will build a guesthouse for low end tourist and his wife Pueng will run an eatery for the same crowd most of the money they make goes to the family, maybe the kids get better education, or the family better healthcare or get a car instead the motocy to get around, which all lead to better life and most probably longer life expectancy.

 

Nothing wrong with targeting a niche market however don't throw away the baby with the bathwater.

 

"The Tourism Council of Thailand (TCT) estimates the total number of workers including related hospitality services such as tour companies and other attractions could total 4.3 million" Let's say that 20% of tourists are high-end and served by 40% of all workers and chase away the rest of the tourists, that means that means that ~2.6 million will loose their jobs too.

Why would they, money usually attracts money not drive it away?

[Trujillo]

"Maybe a 5,000 baht room is not 5 times better than a 1,000 baht room...but what does such a comparison mean anyway."

 

I agree. But what I was referring to, and this is from having lived on Samui for years, many places are unequally priced that have virtually the same rooms, service, views, etc. 

[StayinThailand2much]

On 6/28/2020 at 10:07 AM, Suddenplans said:

Bhutan charges USD $250 per person per day.  The quality of guests to Bhutan is quite high.  Next store to Bhutan is Nepal that gets all the back packers.  Thailand could charge $25 a day.

Then Thailand is already in trouble, with neighbouring Cambodia charging 3,000 bucks 'Coronavirus deposit'. - Guess, it will become THE Mecca for the world's rich and famous...

Edited June 29, 2020 by StayinThailand2much

[belfast3]

Now is definitely not the time to be choosy over which class of tourists can visit.

 

Also, high end tourists will stay at big chain hotels owned by foreign companies and do little for the local economy. 

Edited June 29, 2020 by belfast3

[GinBoy2]

3 hours ago, belfast3 said:

Now is definitely not the time to be choosy over which class of tourists can visit.

 

Also, high end tourists will stay at big chain hotels owned by foreign companies and do little for the local economy. 

Don't worry, this is just another one of the myriad of proclamations that come out of Thai Government officials. which mean basically nothing!

 

Thailand is not Monaco, and who knows what 'rich' tourists actually mean.

 

Thailand is not a destination for the super rich, and never will be.

 

Wait until this nightmare subsides and watch for the next announcement that they are once again, as they said last year, aggressively encouraging Chinese and Indian tourists, and this 'rich tourist' nonsense will be forgotten.

Thai governments are very good at simply forgetting what they said last month and move on to the next reality

[torturedsole]

3 hours ago, belfast3 said:

Also, high end tourists will stay at big chain hotels owned by foreign companies and do little for the local economy. 

Some of them but not all of them.  I'm not a high roller but can quite easily spend THB 20k a night for a decent hotel room in BKK.  But these foreign-owned hotels are employing at least 97% of Thai staff so hardly doing little for the local economy.  

 

I don't feel the need to spend a further THB 10k for a meal at their restaurant and will happily go out for a wander with my wife and eat wherever. While we're out and about in BKK then we'll spend money in the shops and on the street.  

 

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by torturedsole

[simon43]

it was AWESOME to visit the Grand Palace,

 

You got in?  I thought it was closed... [/sarcasm]

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Backpackers will continue to be welcome, but it will be backpacking kids discovering the world, not 30-40 year old losers who preach the benefits of new age meditation, enemas and consuming  drugs as they try to  quell their inner demons.

Who do you think "discovered" Thailand back in the 70s? Hint -it wasn't high end tourists.

Who do you think those "losers" were in their youth? Hint- they were the backpacking kids that you laud.

 

Do you know much about Thailand tourism before the awful flashpackers appeared to ruin most nice Thai beaches with their demands for concrete rooms with AC, hot water and cable tv?

Edited June 29, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, torturedsole said:

I'm not a high roller but can quite easily spend THB 20k a night for a decent hotel room in BKK.  But these foreign-owned hotels are employing at least 97% of Thai staff so hardly doing little for the local economy.  

20,000 a night for a bed, hot water and cable tv? You are definitely a "high roller" All that can be found in very nice hotels for less than 2,000.

 

Whatever, the main reason I responded was to point out that most of those "Thai staff" will be paid less in a month than what you paid for one night. You probably paid more for booze than what they earn a month.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, Trujillo said:

"Maybe a 5,000 baht room is not 5 times better than a 1,000 baht room...but what does such a comparison mean anyway."

 

I agree. But what I was referring to, and this is from having lived on Samui for years, many places are unequally priced that have virtually the same rooms, service, views, etc. 

It's easy to get those that consider themselves "special" to spend more for an identical room than the hotel next door.

Call it a "boutique" hotel, put some trendy lilac paint on the walls and a fancy nameplate at the glass doors. Install a fancy front desk and have a pretty receptionist that uses trendy speak. The easily impressed rich customers will be lining up at the trendy hotel and ignoring the identical but ordinary hotel next door.

 

I used to stay at a certain hotel in Pattaya at 600 a night including breakfast, but went elsewhere when they trendified and charged 900, despite still not having a lift for a 6 story building. Still had the idiots trendies staying there though.

[PingRoundTheWorld]

16 hours ago, Trujillo said:

Yes, the Yacht Club is not a 5-star place, but then it's comfortable and clean. And it's right on the beach (you don't need to ring the front desk to get a golf cart to come pick you up, no joke).

I did end up in a 5-star resort in Phuket once because we got a significant discount due to my gf at the time working in that hotel chain. The hotel itself was beautiful, but extremely inconvenient if you want to do anything outside the hotel. Had to take a taxi or shuttle every time, and taxi back every time, so even venturing out for dinner cost you 400-800 baht in transportation every time. Would never stay in such a resort again. Much better to stay in a smaller hotel within walking distance to restaurants and entertainment.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, Trillian said:

Why would they, money usually attracts money not drive it away?

He was referring to low end tourists, not rich ones. They employ the vast majority of Thais in the tourist industry but those Thais probably earn almost as much as the ones in 5* places because the 5* places pay as little as they can get away with.

[Trillian]

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

20,000 a night for a bed, hot water and cable tv? You are definitely a "high roller" All that can be found in very nice hotels for less than 2,000.

 

Whatever, the main reason I responded was to point out that most of those "Thai staff" will be paid less in a month than what you paid for one night. You probably paid more for booze than what they earn a month.

When I travel on business my employer pays and we stay in the Mandarin Orientals or similar, when I travel on my own I usually spend around 2,000 baht per night in Thailand. If anyone thinks the quality of the two products is the same then they've never stayed in a really nice hotel, the service, food, facilities, quality of staff, quality of the room and its furnishings and everything else, is totally different.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

The hotel itself was beautiful, but extremely inconvenient if you want to do anything outside the hotel. Had to take a taxi or shuttle every time, and taxi back every time, so even venturing out for dinner cost you 400-800 baht in transportation every time.

Did you have to pay for the shuttle? That should be included.

 

I once stayed in a 5* in Dubai, but they charged so much for meals I took the free shuttle to town just to eat. Perhaps times change.

[Trillian]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

He was referring to low end tourists, not rich ones. They employ the vast majority of Thais in the tourist industry but those Thais probably earn almost as much as the ones in 5* places because the 5* places pay as little as they can get away with.

We have friends who work in the Anantara, and Chedi hotels in Thailand, their salaries are around 15k per month but they all get a share of the Service Charge which can easily amount to another 30,000 baht per month. They also get private health insurance, training in a number of areas, free stays at sister hotels in various countries and in Thailand, a salary increase for knowing a second language, plus plus plus.

[PingRoundTheWorld]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

He was referring to low end tourists, not rich ones. They employ the vast majority of Thais in the tourist industry but those Thais probably earn almost as much as the ones in 5* places because the 5* places pay as little as they can get away with.

Not entirely true. In smaller hotels staff typically make as little as 9k a month, maybe a little more. In 5* hotels they typically made 20k or more plus commissions so at the peak of tourism they could make close to 30k on a good month. This is all past-tense though, none of those people have jobs now. All laid off, and none of those jobs are coming back until normal tourism restarts. Who do you think stays in 5* hotels in Bangkok? high end tourists? lol no. It's normal tourists, families, even sex tourists, lol.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, Trillian said:

When I travel on business my employer pays and we stay in the Mandarin Orientals or similar, when I travel on my own I usually spend around 2,000 baht per night in Thailand. If anyone thinks the quality of the two products is the same then they've never stayed in a really nice hotel, the service, food, facilities, quality of staff, quality of the room and its furnishings and everything else, is totally different.

I've stayed in enough 5* hotels to know that it's a superficial difference. Unless one is into grovelling underpaid staff and "gyms" and "spas" the bed in a 2,000 a night Bkk hotel is as comfortable, the cable tv the same, hot water is hot water, AC is AC and I never stayed in the hotel any longer than I needed to sleep any way. The point of going to Bkk was to enjoy what lay OUTSIDE the hotel, not to spend my time inside it.

 

the service, food, facilities, quality of staff, quality of the room and its furnishings

 

Didn't require "service" as all I need an hotel for was to sleep in, didn't use "facilities" except the restaurant ( mainly ate elsewhere anyway ), though I did get a haircut in the Bkk hotel, staff took my bag to my room and made my bed as well as any in a 5*, I didn't spend my time admiring the "quality" of the room as I wasn't in it much. I came to LOS to experience life outside, not in some posh room.

In short, I'd rather spend 2,000 on a bed and have 8,000 to spend enjoying myself than spend 10,000 to admire the furnishings.

However, if the rich want to spend more than they have to on a bed that's their prerogative, but I hope they tip well.

 

[Trillian]

I have lived in Kempinski, Mandarin and Marriott hotels in Asia for a year at a time, under those circumstances you appreciate the subtle differences.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

Not entirely true. In smaller hotels staff typically make as little as 9k a month, maybe a little more. In 5* hotels they typically made 20k or more plus commissions so at the peak of tourism they could make close to 30k on a good month. This is all past-tense though, none of those people have jobs now. All laid off, and none of those jobs are coming back until normal tourism restarts. Who do you think stays in 5* hotels in Bangkok? high end tourists? lol no. It's normal tourists, families, even sex tourists, lol.

Are you seriously telling me the maid that makes the bed and the woman that cleans the toilets earn 20k a month?

Of course the front desk staff and the chefs make the big bucks, but the guy that opens the door, or takes the bags up, or cleans the pots?

 

In Chiang Mai I read the reviews of the 5* hotels near the night market and decided not to stay in any of them as they just were not that good and over run by the horde. Of course tourists on package tours stay there, but they wouldn't if they had to pay full price and knew what the options were in cheaper places. 5* offer package places as they wouldn't be full otherwise.

 

I doubt any real 5* would allow a bar girl in for a one nighter. The only way to get them into a decent place is to check in with them for the duration.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, Trillian said:

I have lived in Kempinski, Mandarin and Marriott hotels in Asia for a year at a time, under those circumstances you appreciate the subtle differences.

If I were living in an hotel for a year I'd go for the 5* if I could afford it, but I've been referring to normal tourists.

However I enjoyed my very friendly 15,000 a month place as I was able to strike up a rapport with the staff. I doubt a cleaner or the receptionist in a 5* would be as friendly.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Having done both, I can guarantee that it is not the same, not even virtually.

 

Maybe a 5,000 baht room is not 5 times better than a 1,000 baht room...but what does such a comparison mean anyway.

 

It's like with any product, the closer you get to the top, the more you overpay, because the sellers know that at a certain level the price is not the priority for the buyers...the latter are ready to pay more for a brand name, a location, a view, a reputation and so on.

 

 

Not disagreeing with anything you wrote, but my "on the sand" 300 baht a night, no hot water, no AC, no tv hovel had a far, far better view of the beach and ocean than the concrete hotel rooms as they are rarely if ever actually built next to the sand. Nothing beats sitting on the veranda looking out to sea as a tropical deluge passes over. In short, my hovel had a million baht view.

[LennyW]

Apparently there has been a huge uptake on the Elite visa options recently......all by "wealthy" Chinese, so maybe it is about to happen!

[thaibeachlovers]

44 minutes ago, Trillian said:

We have friends who work in the Anantara, and Chedi hotels in Thailand, their salaries are around 15k per month but they all get a share of the Service Charge which can easily amount to another 30,000 baht per month. They also get private health insurance, training in a number of areas, free stays at sister hotels in various countries and in Thailand, a salary increase for knowing a second language, plus plus plus.

Fair enough. I'd hate looking after a bunch of self important, demanding arrogant people, but I'd do it for the money. I hated most of my jobs, but if the money was good why not. I got some of those benefits you note when working in Saudi, but the only reason I stayed was because they paid a shed load of money. Of all the jobs I hated, Saudi took the crown, for the reason I noted in the second sentence.

Edited June 30, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, LennyW said:

Apparently there has been a huge uptake on the Elite visa options recently......all by "wealthy" Chinese, so maybe it is about to happen!

Inevitable, and to be followed by the horde as soon as they can think up a good reason for letting them in.

Edited June 30, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, LennyW said:

Apparently there has been a huge uptake on the Elite visa options recently......all by "wealthy" Chinese, so maybe it is about to happen!

 

Careful not to believe the headlines you read.... 

- 7 applications in one day (which was apparently worthy of mention) is hardly a ‘huge uptake’.... 

- Additionally, the Elite Visa is hardly a measure of wealth, its more a measure of no other options !

 

Quote

The agent said he received seven applications on one day this week.

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Chinese-jump-at-elite-Thailand-visas-to-escape-coronavirus

 

[Peterw42]

Interested to know what constitutes a "high end" tourist ? Room rate ? daily spend ? Spend the money at a corporation or spend the money at a local market or restaurant.

 

I have seen backpackers that will spend 500 a day on a room, then 2,000 a day on beer and partying. Or people that spend 2,000 a day on a room, then 500 a day on the hotel buffet for dinner. Your average 2 week millionaire sex tourist probably outspends all of them.

 

[pineapple01]

Why any interest in what workers make. Nothing to do with You.

[Trillian]

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If I were living in an hotel for a year I'd go for the 5* if I could afford it, but I've been referring to normal tourists.

However I enjoyed my very friendly 15,000 a month place as I was able to strike up a rapport with the staff. I doubt a cleaner or the receptionist in a 5* would be as friendly.

Mine were all on business and yes, I did develop a great rapport with staff who did my ironing in their spare time and also frequently prepared simple off menu meals.

[Trillian]

26 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are you seriously telling me the maid that makes the bed and the woman that cleans the toilets earn 20k a month?

Of course the front desk staff and the chefs make the big bucks, but the guy that opens the door, or takes the bags up, or cleans the pots?

 

In Chiang Mai I read the reviews of the 5* hotels near the night market and decided not to stay in any of them as they just were not that good and over run by the horde. Of course tourists on package tours stay there, but they wouldn't if they had to pay full price and knew what the options were in cheaper places. 5* offer package places as they wouldn't be full otherwise.

 

I doubt any real 5* would allow a bar girl in for a one nighter. The only way to get them into a decent place is to check in with them for the duration.

At the Anantara, everyone gets Service Charge, even the Burmese gardener and the sales assistant in the Boutique Shop, I'm pretty sure it's true of other hotels also.