UK ready to quit EU on 'Australia terms' if no Brexit deal, Johnson says

[7by7]

12 hours ago, nauseus said:

Absurd. Show me where I said that the treaty did away with vetoes completely. 

 I already did so.

 

Though, in typical Brexiteer fashion when caught out, you are now saying that you meant something else!

[7by7]

On 7/15/2020 at 2:32 AM, Laughing Gravy said:

It shows that a democratic referendum was acted upon although so many entities have tried to stop that process and are still trying.

 

 Including the 53% of voters who last December said they wanted a say on the final deal? A say which our first past the post system will deny them.

 

On 7/15/2020 at 2:32 AM, Laughing Gravy said:

As for other positives these are numerous but most remainers don't want to see any positives and are happy to be the EU's lapdog.

Why not list a few of these 'numerous' positives?

[7by7]

On 7/15/2020 at 8:19 AM, vogie said:

<Snip>

You may be a Brit tebee but let's us say your interests are mostly in France which will, I should imagine effect the way you think about Brexit.

The same can be said of the many Brexiteers here who live in Thailand. They will not suffer the effects of Brexit as much as those of us who live here in the UK. 

 

On 7/15/2020 at 8:19 AM, vogie said:

There is nothing democratic about ignoring a democratic decision made by the UK and then to blame the politicians who are merely carrying out the wishes of citizens, they are doing their job. 

Do you mean the wish of 53% of voters who last December expressed a desire for a say on the final deal? Cummings and his puppet are certainly ignoring that!

[7by7]

On 7/15/2020 at 8:47 AM, Laughing Gravy said:

On 7/15/2020 at 3:06 AM, bannork said:

In other words there are no positives 

<snip>

There are so many that it has been done to death here and you know that. 

If there are so many, you should have no problem in listing some.

 

Yet you can't!

[7by7]

On 7/15/2020 at 8:51 AM, vogie said:

Pointless voting then isn't it if we can change our minds the very next day. 

 Not the next day, but over time. Since 2016 many people who voted Leave have come to realise that they were lied to. The biggest lie, of course, being that the EU needed us more than we needed them so Brexit would mean freeing us from all the bits of EU membership we didn't like whilst allowing us to keep all those we did. 

 

You seem to be saying that a government can say "You chose us in the last election, so we've abolished elections to keep us here. If you've changed your minds; tough!"

 

That's not democracy, it's dictatorship.

 

The desire of 53% of the electorate for a final say on Brexit as expressed in the last election is being ignored. How is that democracy?

 

 

[transam]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

If there are so many, you should have no problem in listing some.

 

Yet you can't!

????

 

8 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

The same can be said of the many Brexiteers here who live in Thailand. They will not suffer the effects of Brexit as much as those of us who live here in the UK. 

 

Do you mean the wish of 53% of voters who last December expressed a desire for a say on the final deal? Cummings and his puppet are certainly ignoring that!

That reads like socialist stuff, are you a socialist ?

Who did the "53%" survey, the Independent, Guardian or were you busking....?

[7by7]

22 hours ago, tebee said:

<snip>

So many were conned by their lies and still refuse to admit it too themselves. 

That is certainly true of the Brexiteers here; most of whom live in Thailand and so wont suffer the full effects of Brexit.

 

Many Brexiteers here in the UK have come to realise how they were lied to, though. As shown by 53% of voters expressing a wish for a final say last December.

 

Of course, those Brexiteers who continuously blather on about democracy ignore that fact!

[vogie]

21 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

The same can be said of the many Brexiteers here who live in Thailand. They will not suffer the effects of Brexit as much as those of us who live here in the UK. 

 

Do you mean the wish of 53% of voters who last December expressed a desire for a say on the final deal? Cummings and his puppet are certainly ignoring that!

The same can be said of the many Brexiteers here who live in Thailand. They will not suffer the effects of Brexit as much as those of us who live here in the UK. 

The UK voted to leave the EU, sorry you don't like it, but that's the way it is, time to move on and stop this pointless wittering and embrace your new found freedom, run with the wind, swim with the fish, but don't grouse with the birds.

 

Do you mean the wish of 53% of voters who last December expressed a desire for a say on the final deal? Cummings and his puppet are certainly ignoring that!

When did we have a vote asking us if we wanted a vote on the final deal, that's correct we didn't, all that was on the leave pamphlet was leave or remain. You lost!

[transam]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

That is certainly true of the Brexiteers here; most of whom live in Thailand and so wont suffer the full effects of Brexit.

 

Many Brexiteers here in the UK have come to realise how they were lied to, though. As shown by 53% of voters expressing a wish for a final say last December.

 

Of course, those Brexiteers who continuously blather on about democracy ignore that fact!

"Many Brexiteers here in the UK have come to realise they were lied too", how do you know....?  You been out busking with a note pad, how many millions did you ask, or was it the queue at McD's...

 

And what you don't realise is the Brexiteers here in Thailand would have voted for Brexit if we were still in the UK.

And you still don't realise that many of us don't give a stuff about the hurdles Brexit has to encounter, we want out of a cr_p system that will end up similar to the USA.

And you don't realise that Brexiteers have more balls than you apron string types.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

The same can be said of the many Brexiteers here who live in Thailand. They will not suffer the effects of Brexit as much as those of us who live here in the UK. 

The UK voted to leave the EU, sorry you don't like it, but that's the way it is, time to move on and stop this pointless wittering and embrace your new found freedom, run with the wind, swim with the fish, but don't grouse with the birds.

 

Do you mean the wish of 53% of voters who last December expressed a desire for a say on the final deal? Cummings and his puppet are certainly ignoring that!

When did we have a vote asking us if we wanted a vote on the final deal, that's correct we didn't, all that was on the leave pamphlet was leave or remain. You lost!

 

Just wait for the "Twist"...????

[7by7]

22 hours ago, nauseus said:

<snip>

If you had read it you would know that it is not BS. If you think that control of foreign policy is not an important 'issue' for the UK, then I am obviously wasting my time.

Another lie about the Lisbon Treaty!

 

Yet you claim to have read and understand it!

 

I posted a link to a Full Fact article debunking many lies about the treaty earlier; here's another one: Most of these claims about the EU aren’t true and have nothing to do with the Lisbon Treaty

 

Don't care for that? Try this from the FCO: Lisbon Treaty myths.

 

You can see from the age of that FCO link that these myths have been circulating for some time, and regularly debunked. Yet there are still people like you who fall for them!

 

As for what the treaty does do; see this from the FCO: What the Lisbon Treaty will do.

 

The whole thing debunks all the lies, for example

Quote

• It gives national parliaments a voice in making European laws for the first time. Every national parliament will receive proposals for new EU legislation directly. They may judge whether the proposal conforms to the principles of “subsidiarity” (that the EU should only act where it adds value). If one third of national parliaments object, then the proposal will be sent back for review by the Commission (the ‘yellow card’). If a majority of national parliaments oppose a Commission proposal, and national governments or MEPs agree, then it can be struck down (the ‘orange card’).

 So tell us; how is that reducing members' sovereignty and leading to the creation of an EU super state?

 

[nauseus]

57 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I already did so.

 

Though, in typical Brexiteer fashion when caught out, you are now saying that you meant something else!

You have been caught out, you can't answer.

[7by7]

27 minutes ago, transam said:

????

 

That reads like socialist stuff, are you a socialist ?

Who did the "53%" survey, the Independent, Guardian or were you busking....?

 

None of the above.

 

It is a fact that in the last election, 53% of voters voted for parties which promised in their manifestoes that they would hold a referendum on the final deal, or no deal, if elected.

 

If you want to check my maths; here is the share of the votes.

[7by7]

23 minutes ago, vogie said:

The same can be said of the many Brexiteers here who live in Thailand. They will not suffer the effects of Brexit as much as those of us who live here in the UK. 

The UK voted to leave the EU, sorry you don't like it, but that's the way it is, time to move on and stop this pointless wittering and embrace your new found freedom, run with the wind, swim with the fish, but don't grouse with the birds.

Yes, the UK did vote to leave by a small majority. A vote based on lies and deception from the various leave campaigns; as many here in the UK have since discovered.

 

25 minutes ago, vogie said:

Do you mean the wish of 53% of voters who last December expressed a desire for a say on the final deal? Cummings and his puppet are certainly ignoring that!

When did we have a vote asking us if we wanted a vote on the final deal, that's correct we didn't, all that was on the leave pamphlet was leave or remain. You lost!

We haven't had a vote on the final deal, and due to our first past the post system Cummings wont give us one.

 

You comments prove that you only care about democracy when you win!

 

[transam]

Just now, 7by7 said:

Yes, the UK did vote to leave by a small majority. A vote based on lies and deception from the various leave campaigns; as many here in the UK have since discovered.

 

We haven't had a vote on the final deal, and due to our first past the post system Cummings wont give us one.

 

You comments prove that you only care about democracy when you win!

 

Why do you quote "Cummings", has he now become an MP....?  ????

If he hasn't, then once again you are making wild assumptions...

[vogie]

25 minutes ago, transam said:

Just wait for the "Twist"...????

Some remainers on here would have a vote on what Mr Barnier and Mr Frost are having for dinner at Number 10 if we'd let them.

[Nigel Garvie]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

snip

When did we have a vote asking us if we wanted a vote on the final deal, that's correct we didn't, all that was on the leave pamphlet was leave or remain. You lost!

 

 

You won the referendum (I guess you have to keep repeating that because nobody else knows!!)

 

However everyone lost, it is just that many Brexit fans are incapable of seeing the vast economic damage already caused, and further the looming economic disaster fast arriving (Even before taking Covid into account). Whether this is because they are simply incapable of, or unwilling to do the research, or whether it is because they are in a state of denial, and only believe what they want to believe, or something else, I don't know.

However there is one thing for sure - there are nane sae blind as those that canna see. In what deluded mindset do people have to exist in order to believe that everything in the garden is rosy. 

 

"You won the battle but you lost the war" (Leon Rosselson) indeed we all did. 

 

I posted in this thread a guide to various Brexit losses before, but any research in serious Financial papers such as the FT, Economist, Bloomberg, and many more, will tell the same story. These are papers for the money men, they don't care about politics and ideology, only money. 

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Some remainers on here would have a vote on what Mr Barnier and Mr Frost are having for dinner at Number 10 if we'd let them.

And some Brexiteers would be cheering from the rooftops if Johnson cancelled all future general elections and declared himself "El Presidentie For Life".

After all we had one vote and thats it for all eternity. The people have spoken. Now we must never let them speak again.

 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Nigel Garvie said:

You won the referendum (I guess you have to keep repeating that because nobody else knows!!)

 

However everyone lost, it is just that many Brexit fans are incapable of seeing the vast economic damage already caused, and further the looming economic disaster fast arriving (Even before taking Covid into account). Whether this is because they are simply incapable of, or unwilling to do the research, or whether it is because they are in a state of denial, and only believe what they want to believe, or something else, I don't know.

However there is one thing for sure - there are nane sae blind as those that canna see. In what deluded mindset do people have to exist in order to believe that everything in the garden is rosy. 

 

"You won the battle but you lost the war" (Leon Rosselson) indeed we all did. 

 

I posted in this thread a guide to various Brexit losses before, but any research in serious Financial papers such as the FT, Economist, Bloomberg, and many more, will tell the same story. These are papers for the money men, they don't care about politics and ideology, only money. 

I am not a number, I am a free man.????????

[7by7]

23 minutes ago, transam said:

"Many Brexiteers here in the UK have come to realise they were lied too", how do you know....?  You been out busking with a note pad, how many millions did you ask, or was it the queue at McD's..

If you lived in the UK you would know this, too; one source being the many opinion polls on the subject since 2016.

But then, experience has shown that Brexiteers here only take such polls into account when they agree with the result.

 

But the poll which counts is that held last December; the general election. Yet, like all those Brexiteers who trumpet democracy when it suits, you are ignoring the wishes of 53% of those who voted. Just like Cummings and his puppet are.

 

(Were you in the UK you would know that until last week all McD's have all been closed due to lockdown! See, I can make stupid comments, too!)

 

32 minutes ago, transam said:

And what you don't realise is the Brexiteers here in Thailand would have voted for Brexit if we were still in the UK.

And you still don't realise that many of us don't give a stuff about the hurdles Brexit has to encounter, we want out of a cr_p system that will end up similar to the USA.

I'll ask you the same question you asked me: how do you know this? Been out busking with a note pad? Which queue did you ask?

 

Yes, the USA's system has many faults; it allowed Trump to become president, did it not.

 

But the EU will not become a federal state like the USA unless all members unanimously agree to it. Despite what the liars would have the gullible believe, such a major change requires unanimity. Plus, to remove that veto would also require unanimity!

 

38 minutes ago, transam said:

And you don't realise that Brexiteers have more balls than you apron string types.

I think with my brain, not my balls. You should try it sometime.

[melvinmelvin]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

Some remainers on here would have a vote on what Mr Barnier and Mr Frost are having for dinner at Number 10 if we'd let them.

 

was gibt es zum mittag D10?

easy peasy

same as the No No No No lady offered; British beef from cows

 

speculating about the menu for a possible future dinner with Barnier at D10

is at least better than looking into nitty gritty vote counting and statistics from

past ref. and elections

 

looking ahead should be the order of the day

 

[7by7]

34 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You have been caught out, you can't answer.

Except I have answered.

 

As your memory seems to be at fault, and you also seem incapable of clicking on the links to the relevant posts of yours I provided; I can help you no further.

[Nigel Garvie]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

I am not a number, I am a free man.????????

But who is number one?  On current showing Putin is in with a shout!

 

Absolutely fantastic series, my favourite. The story goes that they had to cut it short by a few episodes, because "The Establishment" felt it was getting too close to the truth. 

[DaLa]

For the last 9 years I have been shipping 4 HC containers  a year to Thailand under WTO.  Little bit of paperwork at the UK end. Quite a bit of paperwork at this end, numerous fees  (not too expensive , just lots of them) .  5-6 weeks on a boat and lo and behold my stock arrives.

 

I'm not concerned one way or the other as I don't trade with the EU, however the suggestion that there will be chaos if we leave and have to trade under WTO is scaremongering fed to the general public who are not involved in logistics.

[7by7]

17 minutes ago, transam said:

Why do you quote "Cummings", has he now become an MP....?  ????

If he hasn't, then once again you are making wild assumptions...

 You obviously have no idea from your perch in Thailand who the power behind the throne is here in the UK.

 

Who is Dominic Cummings, and how did he become Boris Johnson's chief adviser?

 

The damage Dominic Cummings has done to Boris Johnson

 

Dominic Cummings is more powerful than ever

 

Yet you Brexiteers complain about unelected officials in the EU Commission!

[7by7]

28 minutes ago, vogie said:

I am not a number, I am a free man.????????

 So am I; which is why I believe that in our democracy the government should listen to the wishes of the majority as expressed last December.

Edited July 16, 2020 by 7by7
typos

[7by7]

43 minutes ago, DaLa said:

For the last 9 years I have been shipping 4 HC containers  a year to Thailand under WTO.  Little bit of paperwork at the UK end. Quite a bit of paperwork at this end, numerous fees  (not too expensive , just lots of them) .  5-6 weeks on a boat and lo and behold my stock arrives.

 

I'm not concerned one way or the other as I don't trade with the EU, however the suggestion that there will be chaos if we leave and have to trade under WTO is scaremongering fed to the general public who are not involved in logistics.

 

The International Trade Secretary, Liz Truss (a Brexiteer), disagrees with you.

 

Brexit chaos: Johnson's border plans torn apart by OWN cabinet minister - LEAKED LETTER

 

Before anyone says she supported Remain in 2016; yes she did. But she later changed her mind: Liz Truss says she would now back Brexit.

 

It seems that cabinet ministers can change their minds, but we plebs are not allowed to!

 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by 7by7
Addendum and correct typo

[bannork]

18 minutes ago, DaLa said:

For the last 9 years I have been shipping 4 HC containers  a year to Thailand under WTO.  Little bit of paperwork at the UK end. Quite a bit of paperwork at this end, numerous fees  (not too expensive , just lots of them) .  5-6 weeks on a boat and lo and behold my stock arrives.

 

I'm not concerned one way or the other as I don't trade with the EU, however the suggestion that there will be chaos if we leave and have to trade under WTO is scaremongering fed to the general public who are not involved in logistics.

Try saying that to all the 'just in time' refrigerated truck owners and drivers queued up in the lorry parks waiting to pass customs.

[vogie]

20 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

was gibt es zum mittag D10?

easy peasy

same as the No No No No lady offered; British beef from cows

 

speculating about the menu for a possible future dinner with Barnier at D10

is at least better than looking into nitty gritty vote counting and statistics from

past ref. and elections

 

looking ahead should be the order of the day

 

Ich glaube halibut mit asparagas salad. Probably caught off the Norway waters.

 

[Monomial]

40 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Yes, the UK did vote to leave by a small majority. A vote based on lies and deception from the various leave campaigns; as many here in the UK have since discovered.

 

We haven't had a vote on the final deal, and due to our first past the post system Cummings wont give us one.

 

You comments prove that you only care about democracy when you win!

 

Each side was given more then enough time to expose the opposing side's "lies and deceptions" before the vote.  Waiting until after the vote and then complaining about it because the vote didn't go your way is just being mulish.  If you honestly think people were swayed by lies and deceptions, then you have only yourself to blame for not telling people about it before the vote.

 

You don't need a second vote, and third vote to accept the results of the second vote, etc. That isn't the way real government systems work.

 

Now you have to wait until the process is complete, and then you can start your own referrendum to rejoin the EU if you want. Presumably, if your position is supported by the majority, then you will win a "rejoin" campaign after the results of this have been implemented.  But you have to implement what was previously decided on first.