Unsuccessful trip to CW today for a NON O

[bkkexplorer]

Hi Guys, Just wanted to share my experience today and get some advise.

 

I arrived in Thailand on 18th Dec 2019, had a 30 day tourist extension followed by a 60 day spouse extension which lasted til 15th April 2020. My current stay is now extended under the granted time of 31st July. As this unexpected virus had affected all of us, my situation was that I wasn't able to travel for work as I had previously been doing. Knowing this, and after getting some info here, I had made plans to apply for a spouse O visa as soon as I could. Last week I fulfilled the required 400k in the bank for 2 months and today I went down to CW with all the documents needed to apply for the spouse O visa. Upon asking the officers, we were told that I could not apply for the visa today as the date for me to apply was at least 2 weeks prior to the 15th April extension given months ago. I was under the impression that I could apply within this grace period; my mistake...

 

My wife then asked what happens if I have to leave the country on the 31st of July and not allowed back in? We have 2 kids and the only home I own (wifes obviously) is here. The officer first responded it was 'my fault' and then a little more sympathetic 'don't worry as the government will do something'. I do not know what this means, 'the government will do something..' Of course you can only ask the officer so many times before the mood changes so we didn't push it..

 

Given my situation (and I'm sure many more out there), are there other options I overlooked?

 

Also, I just saw today's CCSA briefing and he mentioned spouses of Thai nationals being allowed to enter without being specific. Where can I find more info on this?

 

thanks for reading...

[ubonjoe]

They are correct about needing 15 days remaining on a standard permit to stay form a visa exempt or tourist visa entry or a extension of them. Immigration does not consider the "automatic extension" under the amnesty as a valid permit to stay.

Also you could of applied for the 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) as soon as you had the 400k baht in the bank. It only has to be in the bank on the day you apply. The 2 months requirement is only needed when applying for a one year extension.

The amnesty may be extended beyond July 31st if the border crossings are not open. 

If not you may be able to apply for a special 30 day extension with a letter from your embassy.

Your best option now is to wait it out and then go to a nearby embassy or consulate to a apply for a single entry non-o visa.

[glegolo]

Plse UbonJoe, this guy runs out of an extension based on spouse, and he can now apply for a "new" Non Immigrant O VISA, within the borders of Thailand? I thought that  it was ONLY possible in case of a conversion of some sort.. So how is this possible.... I thought it was impossible for people just to go down to immigration  and buy themselfs a Non O-VISA!!!

 

glegolo

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, glegolo said:

Plse UbonJoe, this guy runs out of an extension based on spouse, and he can now apply for a "new" Non Immigrant O VISA, within the borders of Thailand?

Read the OP again. He entered on a tourist visa and then applied for a 60 day extension to visit his wife.

He never had a non-o visa.

[glegolo]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

Read the OP again. He entered on a tourist visa and then applied for a 60 day extension to visit his wife.

He never had a non-o visa.

UB I never said that????????? THIS is my question... How can a guy that is/was on an extension simply go to immigration inside Thailand and buy himself a Non Imm O-VISA,, not even go the "conversaion-road"?????????

 

glegolo

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, glegolo said:

UB I never said that????????? THIS is my question... How can a guy that is/was on an extension simply go to immigration inside Thailand and buy himself a Non Imm O-VISA,, not even go the "conversaion-road"?????????

The application can be done with a 30 day extension of a tourist visa entry and or a 60 day extension to visit a Thai wife. It does not have to be the original 60 day entry from one.

He would do a application for a change of visa status using a TM86 form to get a 90 day non-o visa entry. Nobody said otherwise. That is what people incorrectly call a conversion.

Read this. http://bangkokimmigration.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/06-edit_NON-O.pdf

[jonwilly]

Renewed my Type O 12 month visa last week in Chiang Mai. I always use a Visa Agent, as best in town, I was with the immigration official for 5 mins max.

I was 42 days early as I like to get my admin out of the way as soon as possible.

 

john

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, jonwilly said:

Renewed my Type O 12 month visa last week in Chiang Mai.

You applied for a one year extension of stay not a visa of any kind.

[bkkexplorer]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

 

Also you could of applied for the 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) as soon as you had the 400k baht in the bank. It only has to be in the bank on the day you apply. The 2 months requirement is only needed when applying for a one year extension.

This was a mistake on my part, I thought I needed 2 months in the bank for the spouse 'O' visa application, and that the initial 90 days given is part of that process. Kicking myself now!!

Quote

That is what people incorrectly call a conversion.

Read this. http://bangkokimmigration.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/06-edit_NON-O.pdf

• If I have it correct, this is the one I should have applied for. So, in the event I have to leave Thailand. Upon my return I shall apply for this first and later apply for the 1 ear 'O' visa correct?

"Renewed my Type O 12 month visa last week in Chiang Mai. I always use a Visa Agent, as best in town, I was with the immigration official for 5 mins max.

I was 42 days early as I like to get my admin out of the way as soon as possible."

 

I have in the past done my Spouse 'O' visa extensions many times without an agent. Not an issue if you have the right documents.

Edited June 30, 2020 by bkkexplorer
more details

[glegolo]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

The application can be done with a 30 day extension of a tourist visa entry and or a 60 day extension to visit a Thai wife. It does not have to be the original 60 day entry from one.

He would do a application for a change of visa status using a TM86 form to get a 90 day non-o visa entry. Nobody said otherwise. That is what people incorrectly call a conversion.

Read this. http://bangkokimmigration.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/06-edit_NON-O.pdf

OK I understand that Joe, but the fact is/was that the OP clearly says that he was going to the immigration and to buy a non immigrant O, nothing more.... That made me confused. But thanks again for clearing that up. The guy is doing a conversion then, NOT just buying a non immigrant O....

 

glegolo

ps. thanks for all your help Joe..

Edited June 30, 2020 by glegolo

[jackdd]

9 hours ago, bkkexplorer said:

I was under the impression that I could apply within this grace period; my mistake...

You can, they just give you troubles so that you decide to use an agent and they get paid.

You can decide between using an agent, using another immigration office, or trying to talk with somebody higher up in your immigration office.

 

[Tanoshi]

34 minutes ago, glegolo said:

OK I understand that Joe, but the fact is/was that the OP clearly says that he was going to the immigration and to buy a non immigrant O, nothing more.... That made me confused.

Where does the OP state he was buying a Non O?

 

9 hours ago, bkkexplorer said:

I had made plans to apply for a spouse O visa as soon as I could. Last week I fulfilled the required 400k in the bank for 2 months and today I went down to CW with all the documents needed to apply for the spouse O visa.

You confused yourself by not reading correctly.

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, jackdd said:

You can, they just give you troubles so that you decide to use an agent and they get paid.

In a way they are correct. He is not the first one denied the change of visa status while on the "automatic extension". It is not considered a extension of the original entry.

The rules state you must have a least 15 days remaining on the permit to stay. 

Also FYI the Chaeng Wattana does not play the agent game other than allowing them to assist with the application.

[glegolo]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Where does the OP state he was buying a Non O?

 

You confused yourself by not reading correctly.

Where?? In the headline of this thread for a starter he is saying; "Unsuccessful trip to CW today for a NON O" 

and later on into his text he is saying he is going there to apply for a Non O spouse VISA.... Yes I find it hard to read correctly probably, when it comes to read inbetween the lines.....

 

glegolo

[lopburi3]

10 minutes ago, glegolo said:

Where?? In the headline of this thread for a starter he is saying; "Unsuccessful trip to CW today for a NON O" 

and later on into his text he is saying he is going there to apply for a Non O spouse VISA.... Yes I find it hard to read correctly probably, when it comes to read inbetween the lines.....

 

glegolo

Actually he was doing just that - on basis of meeting requirements for extension of stay trying to change a visa exempt or tourist visa entry into a non immigrant O visa entry (buying that visa/entry at immigration at normal 2,000 baht visa fee).  The extension of stay would come after getting that visa/entry for a new fee of 1,900 baht.

[jackdd]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

In a way they are correct. He is not the first one denied the change of visa status while on the "automatic extension". It is not considered a extension of the original entry.

The rules state you must have a least 15 days remaining on the permit to stay. 

Also FYI the Chaeng Wattana does not play the agent game other than allowing them to assist with the application.

I just talked with a visa agent which i found on Google and asked them regarding this.

The info i gave them: Entered visa exempt, extended this, since May under the amnesty, and want to convert this visa exempt entry to a non-immigrant o visa for retirement (said i'm over 50)

Answer: They can do it, but i would have to meet them in person at Chaeng Wattana.

 

So either it's possible in general, or at least it's possible through an agent and Chaeng Wattana plays the agent game.

Edited June 30, 2020 by jackdd

[Tanoshi]

10 minutes ago, jackdd said:

I just talked with a visa agent which i found on Google and asked them regarding this.

The info i gave them: Entered visa exempt, extended this, since May under the amnesty, and wants to convert this visa exempt entry to a non-immigrant o visa for retirement (said i'm over 50)

Now ring them back and ask the same question for marriage extension, which is what the OP posted about. He deposited 400K, not 800K.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Tanoshi

[glegolo]

45 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Actually he was doing just that - on basis of meeting requirements for extension of stay trying to change a visa exempt or tourist visa entry into a non immigrant O visa entry (buying that visa/entry at immigration at normal 2,000 baht visa fee).  The extension of stay would come after getting that visa/entry for a new fee of 1,900 baht.

Yes I understood that after reading inbetween the lines...... But did he wrote that????

 

glegolo

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

I just talked with a visa agent which i found on Google and asked them regarding this.

The info i gave them: Entered visa exempt, extended this, since May under the amnesty, and want to convert this visa exempt entry to a non-immigrant o visa for retirement (said i'm over 50)

Answer: They can do it, but i would have to meet them in person at Chaeng Wattana.

 

So either it's possible in general, or at least it's possible through an agent and Chaeng Wattana plays the agent game.

Oh, they most certainly do play the agent game.  Immigration is run top to bottom on this - that money being the primary function of the organization, the rest being just a "front" for the operation.

 

I saw it first hand at CW a couple months back.  I watched Agents bring in clients, type some on their phone, walk in to see "officers" between queue numbers, then walk about out "DONE" a couple minutes later.  The farang only had to come in for the picture, to make it look official.

 

58 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Now ring them back and ask the same question for marriage extension, which is what the OP posted about. He deposited 400K, not 800K.

If you need a Non-O-Marriage type to support a Thai family, versus the much easier "retirement" based - the regular agents can not help you - even if you meet all the published requirements (I contacted several in March this year). 

 

For a Thai-Family supporting extension at CW, you have to hire one of the "Law Firms" - who charge 35K Baht and up.  The district sign-off guy is more picky about who he "works" with, and apparently wants 10K just for his signature

 

-----
OP - if too difficult at CW, you should contact the agents in Pattaya.  Some agents there can arrange everything.  Tons of reports over years confirm this.

While it is a nightmare to get a "change of visa" (aka "conversion") done there if applying in person (I tried) - that desk is 100% agent-friendly - as is the marriage-based / 1-year-extension desk (also a nightmare in-person).

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by JackThompson

[Tanoshi]

19 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

OP - if too difficult at CW, you should contact the agents in Pattaya.  Some agents there can arrange everything.  Tons of reports over years confirm this.

 

19 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

If you need a Non-O-Marriage type to support a Thai family, versus the much easier "retirement" based - the regular agents can not help you - even if you meet all the published requirements (I contacted several in March this year). 

That's a contradiction!

The OP has 400K to qualify for a Non O and subsequent extension based on marriage.

 

If your recommending he uses an agent for a Non O and subsequent extension based on retirement, then you should also state the pitfalls, especially using an agent who applies at an IO not in your Province.

[JackThompson]

47 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

 

That's a contradiction!

The OP has 400K to qualify for a Non O and subsequent extension based on marriage.

 

If your recommending he uses an agent for a Non O and subsequent extension based on retirement, then you should also state the pitfalls, especially using an agent who applies at an IO not in your Province.

I know - but they have him blocked, by claiming his "covid auto-extension" doesn't count, so won't let him apply, even though he meets the official qualifications.  I have been blocked from legit-extensions on everything from landlord-docs, to you name it.  The point of the entire exercise is to force a portion of us to agents. 

 

Normally, I'd say go out for a Non-O-ME (as I did) to avoid feeding their corruption, but that isn't an option right now.  It's "leave your Thai family" or "line our pockets" - they are no doubt loving this.

 

Note on Pitfalls: CW Immigration will be furious if you use an agent in another province, as they will lose their cut of the action.  Therefore, can either do the Non-O and 1-year extension elsewhere, or pay CW's special "lawyer" agents their price.

Edited June 30, 2020 by JackThompson

[playboy]

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

They are correct about needing 15 days remaining on a standard permit to stay form a visa exempt or tourist visa entry or a extension of them. Immigration does not consider the "automatic extension" under the amnesty as a valid permit to stay.

Also you could of applied for the 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) as soon as you had the 400k baht in the bank. It only has to be in the bank on the day you apply. The 2 months requirement is only needed when applying for a one year extension.

The amnesty may be extended beyond July 31st if the border crossings are not open. 

If not you may be able to apply for a special 30 day extension with a letter from your embassy.

Your best option now is to wait it out and then go to a nearby embassy or consulate to a apply for a single entry non-o visa.

"applied for the 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) as soon as you had the 400k baht in the bank. It only has to be in the bank on the day you apply" I can apply for this kind of visa only when my prior visa or prior permit to is still valid only?  Now my visa is expired and I stay in thailand with special extended under the granted time of 31st July so can I still apply for this visa?  

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, playboy said:

Now my visa is expired and I stay in thailand with special extended under the granted time of 31st July so can I still apply for this visa?  

Immigration will not do it if you only have the "automatic extension" under the amnesty.

[Tanoshi]

34 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I have been blocked from legit-extensions on everything from landlord-docs, to you name it.  The point of the entire exercise is to force a portion of us to agents. 

Then your applications weren't legit.

You failed to supply the requested acceptable documents.

36 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Note on Pitfalls: CW Immigration will be furious if you use an agent in another province, as they will lose their cut of the action.  Therefore, can either do the Non-O and 1-year extension elsewhere, or pay CW's special "lawyer" agents their price.

Agents cannot process marriage extensions unless you meet the requirements.

They can however process a 'dodgy' retirement extension.

One of the pitfalls is that you cannot work and obtain a WP on a retirement extension, which is why you obtained a Non Imm O ME Visa from a Thai Embassy/Consulate.

[Tanoshi]

53 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I know - but they have him blocked, by claiming his "covid auto-extension" doesn't count, so won't let him apply, even though he meets the official qualifications.

He doesn't meet the official criteria, which the OP acknowledges himself.

He should have applied for the Non O whilst still having more than 15 days permission of stay left on his 60 day extension.

 

Using the 'amnesty' as a means to extend your permission of stay could be viewed as a deliberate attempt to circumvent the system. Hell, we could all claim an extended period of stay until the amnesty end date, then have tens of thousands invading the Immigration offices for extensions the day before the amnesty ceases.

 

It's one reason the likes of myself, UJ, Peter Dennis and others have stated to apply for extensions on or before the due dates, because it isn't clear how each IO will view the situation.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Tanoshi

[JackThompson]

57 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Then your applications weren't legit.

You failed to supply the requested acceptable documents.

This is Not True.  I supplied everything that was required per the official documentation at the time of application - EVERY time. 

 

Please do not lie about my 1st hand experience, to lead others into a false-belief about how immigration operates.  That's how I started - naive from reading the "no problem" stories here.

 

Quote

Agents cannot process marriage extensions unless you meet the requirements.

They can in most areas - but at CW, you need one of the 35K+ "law firms" to do it.

 

Quote

They can however process a 'dodgy' retirement extension.

Those are cheaper.

Quote

One of the pitfalls is that you cannot work and obtain a WP on a retirement extension, which is why you obtained a Non Imm O ME Visa from a Thai Embassy/Consulate.

Only the last time.  I was using overseas income when I got my Non-O-ME Visas, each time after being blocked from applying using everything published/required. 

 

The first time, they accepted the income, but added unpublished "landlord docs" - adding an extra landlord-doc with each application-attempt - one at a time (Jomtien).  On the 3rd attempt, they said the House-Book (previously not commented-on) was "too old".  They knew my landlord was an overseas-living Thai, so insisted he must come back to Thailand to get a new house-book copy from the Amphoe, for me to get an extension based on marriage.  Agents offered to fix it all for 25K (operate right next to immigration).  The IOs also were rude and cruel to my wife - left her terrified of immigration - to this day.

 

Next, you will tell me the "change of visa" desk in Jomtien doesn't push everyone to pay 15K, as reported many times here - and as happened to me, when she printed out a "custom" list of rules, including "seasoned money" - and no provision to use income at all to qualify for the financial.  All "our imagination" - right? 

Edited June 30, 2020 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

46 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

He doesn't meet the official criteria, which the OP acknowledges himself.

He should have applied for the Non O whilst still having more than 15 days permission of stay left on his 60 day extension.

 

Using the 'amnesty' as a means to extend your permission of stay could be viewed as a deliberate attempt to circumvent the system. Hell, we could all claim an extended period of stay until the amnesty end date, then have tens of thousands invading the Immigration offices for extensions the day before the amnesty ceases.

 

It's one reason the likes of myself, UJ, Peter Dennis and others have stated to apply for extensions on or before the due dates, because it isn't clear how each IO will view the situation.

I never suggested anyone do otherwise - said the same thing - why give them an opening.  But just watch as an agent can "get it done" no problem.

[Snow Leopard]

9 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

They are correct about needing 15 days remaining on a standard permit to stay form a visa exempt or tourist visa entry or a extension of them. Immigration does not consider the "automatic extension" under the amnesty as a valid permit to stay.

Also you could of applied for the 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) as soon as you had the 400k baht in the bank. It only has to be in the bank on the day you apply. The 2 months requirement is only needed when applying for a one year extension.

The amnesty may be extended beyond July 31st if the border crossings are not open. 

If not you may be able to apply for a special 30 day extension with a letter from your embassy.

Your best option now is to wait it out and then go to a nearby embassy or consulate to a apply for a single entry non-o visa.

Any news on the airport travel bubbles or a land border opening up? My O&A visa is good until March next year but going out for a day before the end of July would give me until the end of July 2021. That would be a better date before heading to the UK and getting a new one. Give everything time to settle down.  

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said:

Any news on the airport travel bubbles or a land border opening up?

No news.

[Tanoshi]

31 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said:

My O&A visa is good until March next year but going out for a day before the end of July would give me until the end of July 2021.

If the 'enter before' date is March 2021, you can leave and re-enter on or just before that date and get a new 1 year entry until March 2022 with the Thai approved Health Insurance.