Unsuccessful trip to CW today for a NON O

[Snow Leopard]

7 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

If the 'enter before' date is March 2021, you can leave and re-enter on or just before that date and get a new 1 year entry until March 2022 with the Thai approved Health Insurance.

The issue date was 31 July 2019. I enetered last on the 1 March 2020. So i am good until 28 Feb 2021. My plan though was to head out about the 27 - 28 of July for one day and re-enter. That would give me until the end of July 2021.  

[Skeptic7]

Sorry for your troubles, but join the club of those of us in similar awful situations...most of us locked OUT of The Kingdom and away from our homes and family. The government will do nothing. They don't care. They don't reason. They don't think. They don't get it. Couldn't give a ????.

 

The end. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Skeptic7

[Tanoshi]

40 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said:

The issue date was 31 July 2019. I enetered last on the 1 March 2020. So i am good until 28 Feb 2021. My plan though was to head out about the 27 - 28 of July for one day and re-enter. That would give me until the end of July 2021.  

Your in the same position as @Peter Denis and probably a few more.

Unfortunately, although my own personal opinion, I think the amnesty will be extended until the end of August, even September, which will be when possible locally agreed 'travel bubbles' allowing local borders to open without restrictions will occur.

That in effect means you will lose part of the possible two years permission of stay you could have obtained from your O-A Visa.

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Your in the same position as @Peter Denis and probably a few more.

Unfortunately, although my own personal opinion, I think the amnesty will be extended until the end of August, even September, which will be when possible locally agreed 'travel bubbles' allowing local borders to open without restrictions will occur.

That in effect means you will lose part of the possible two years permission of stay you could have obtained from your O-A Visa.

Yes I was in almost same situation but somewhat earlier.

My Non Imm O-A Visa was valid till 18 June 2020, and I hoped I would have the chance to do a quick border-run before its validity expired, but with borders closed I was not able to do that.

Luckily I didn't lose my full 2nd year, as I had made a trip to Cambodia and re-entered Thailand end of January, so my permission to stay is valid till end January 2021.  But indeed I lost 4,5 months of my potential full 2nd year due to these border-closures.

@Snow Leopard >> In your post you mentioned the issue date of your Non Imm O-A Visa, but it is the 'valid until' date which is of relevance, in your case that will probably be 30 July 2020.  So if you are able to exit and re-enter before that date you will secure a full 2nd year permission of stay.  Hope that will possible by then.  Cheers!

[Tanoshi]

21 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Sorry for your troubles, but join the club of those of us in similar awful situations...most of us locked OUT of The Kingdom and away from our homes and family. The government will do nothing. They don't care. They don't reason. They don't think. They don't get it. Couldn't give a ????.

 

The end. 

Whilst I sympathise with your predicament, the Thai government cares about it's own citizens first.

Just look at the Countries who started lifting even local restrictions and are now experiencing second waves of Covid. China, S. Korea, India, Iran, Spain, Israel, Turkey and the USA where new confirmed cases haven't fallen below 20,000 per day since April.

 

It was obvious back in February what would transpire the world over as the virus spread. Many of us had travel plans to visit family, or they visit us that had to be cancelled for an unforeseeable future. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Thailand can't be faulted for it's handling of the situation compared to other Countries.

[JackThompson]

14 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Whilst I sympathise with your predicament, the Thai government cares about it's own citizens first.

Prioritizing one's own people is admirable.  It is good they finally expanded to use more of those empty hotels, so more of their citizens can come back per-day. 

 

I don't think the PI doesn't care about it's people, though - in fact, this is why they always let PI-citizen's family members return on reparation flights.
 

14 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

...
It was obvious back in February what would transpire the world over as the virus spread. Many of us had travel plans to visit family, or they visit us that had to be cancelled for an unforeseeable future. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Thailand can't be faulted for it's handling of the situation compared to other Countries.

That was not at all obvious to most in Feb.  One would have gotten "tin-foil" responses if predicting, then, what has actually transpired since.  This is unprecedented in scope and duration. 

 

Those who are stuck outside Thailand - or stuck inside w/o a way to get a new visa - could not have predicted the severity or duration of this.

[Max69xl]

12 hours ago, jonwilly said:

Renewed my Type O 12 month visa last week in Chiang Mai. I always use a Visa Agent, as best in town, I was with the immigration official for 5 mins max.

I was 42 days early as I like to get my admin out of the way as soon as possible.

 

john

Why not try to do it yourself instead of paying an agent? 

[Max69xl]

2 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Sorry for your troubles, but join the club of those of us in similar awful situations...most of us locked OUT of The Kingdom and away from our homes and family. The government will do nothing. They don't care. They don't reason. They don't think. They don't get it. Couldn't give a ????.

 

The end. 

May I ask why you left Thailand? If you're married to a Thai or have Thai kids,then you meet the requirements for an inbound flight if you apply at the Thai embassy in your home country. 

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

That was not at all obvious to most in Feb.  One would have gotten "tin-foil" responses if predicting, then, what has actually transpired since.  This is unprecedented in scope and duration. 

Then they must have had their head buried in the sand.

The first confirmed case came on Jan 1st (China) followed by the first confirmed report in Thailand on 13th January. 

WHO’s situation report for 30 January reported 7818 total confirmed cases worldwide, with the majority of these in China, and 82 cases reported in 18 countries outside China. WHO gave a risk assessment of very high for China, and high at the global level.

By the mid to end of February almost all European Countries had confirmed cases of Covid.

 

Maybe some 'tin foil' heads, the prediction was clearly reported by the WHO and lockdowns worldwide were inevitable to contain the spread.

[bkkexplorer]

I’m under 50 so retirement visa is not an option for me.

 

I am also reluctant to apply for any other type of visa (medical, student, etc.) to get around this when I have a legitimate reason for being here.

 

I do not see myself paying 35k to an agent to sort this out for me for a number of reasons.

 

The choice I see now is

Leave the country (either before 31 July or a new extension date yet to be given) and apply for the 90 day ‘conversion’ followed by an application of the yearly spouse ‘O’ upon my return.

I am ok to do this if it’s clearly stated I will be able to return after a one day trip to a neighbouring country as per pre covid days. If re-entry is not permitted or unknown, I’m in a jam.

 

Another thing I didn’t think of was that I would have to be quarantined for 2 weeks in a government accepted facility. I haven’t read on this further so not sure of exact details. Obviously I would much prefer to self quarantine in my own home if/when allowed to come back.

 

If someone has advise or other options pls share..

 

In the meantime after speaking to a couple of local friends, they suggested going to government house and the missus lodge a formal complaint. They also added that if there were more than one case/ complaints the likes of this, it would be taken more seriously.

 

A bit more info on me,.. I’ve been in Thailand over 20 years, initially on a WP with business/ work visa and later changed to a spouse ‘O’ visa which I had extended for over 10 years without problem. About 18 months ago I had to let my extension lapse because I couldn’t stay in Thailand during the extension period; Immigration stated I had to be in Thailand for a month waiting for their approval while work required me to travel every 2 weeks. The IO at CW actually told me, ‘No problem, let it lapse and apply later when you can.’  No blames at the officer whatsoever, i made the decision to not extend, I didn’t really have a choice, work came first. Between that time and just before covid hit, I did have a few long lectures at DM about why I wasn’t on a spouse visa which i had to explain over and over and over until the officers saw my predicament, Suvharnambum was much better in this respect, walk straight through…

 

I have a house here (under wife of course), drivers license, yellow tabien barn house book,.. even a pink ID card,..  2 kids and an extended Thai family. I do not have any other property elsewhere, all I own is here.

 

I’m sure there are others in a similar situation. If you think that a complaint at government house is worthwhile pls let me know. Also do share if you see negative outcomes in doing this.

[Tanoshi]

42 minutes ago, bkkexplorer said:

The choice I see now is

Leave the country (either before 31 July or a new extension date yet to be given) and apply for the 90 day ‘conversion’ followed by an application of the yearly spouse ‘O’ upon my return.

I am ok to do this if it’s clearly stated I will be able to return after a one day trip to a neighbouring country as per pre covid days. If re-entry is not permitted or unknown, I’m in a jam.

Just to clarify a few points and options.

Your current permission of stay is automatically extended until such time an end of amnesty date is announced.

 

Once the borders are open you can then either re-enter VE (Visa exempt) then apply for the Non O at CW Immigration using form TM87. It requires two visit to CW, one to file the application, the second to collect the Non O stamp once your application has been approved (usually 15 days)

The Non O grants you permission of stay for 90 days, but within the last 30 days of the 90 days you can apply for a 1 year extension based on marriage using form TM7, (a permit, not a Visa).

Again two visits, one to submit the application when you'll be given a 30 day under consideration stamp, then the second visit to collect the extension stamp once the application is approved.

The procedure for this has already been posted. Proof of financials required.

 

Option 2, you could apply for a Non O SE Visa at a Thai Embassy/Consulate and be granted 90 days permission of stay on entry. You can then apply directly for the marriage extension at CW.

On an annual extension you submit 90 reports and need a re-entry permit if you intend to leave and re-enter during the validity of your permission of stay.

 

Option 3. Apply for a Non Imm O ME (multi entry) Visa at a Thai Embassy Consulate.

The Visa is valid 12 months, each entry granting a 90 day stay, each entry can be extended by a further 60 days. If used to it's maximum potential, you can stay almost 17 months, with only 3 border runs and 3 x 60 day extensions before obtaining a new Visa.

 

There are no financial requirements if you apply for the Non O SE, or ME at the Thai Embassy/Consulate in Savannakhet (Lao) or Ho Chi Min (Vietnam).

Edited June 30, 2020 by Tanoshi

[Okis]

18 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

They are correct about needing 15 days remaining on a standard permit to stay form a visa exempt or tourist visa entry or a extension of them.

 

So for example if im on a 60 day extension with the purpose of seasoning 400k in the bank then i have to apply for the 1 year extension 15 days or ealier before that extension runs out? 

 

So if one put the required money in a thai bank 2 months before the expiry of the 60 day extension then it wouldnt be seasoned long enough for a 1 year extension?  So basically if doing this now before the amnesty runs out you would need to start seasoning the money atleast 17 days before applying for the first extension? 

 

I am supposed to apply for 60 day extension on the 15th for this reason but if this is this case then i would have to wait to apply for that extension until 30-31th to make up for the lost 15 days. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Okis

[ubonjoe]

5 hours ago, Okis said:

So for example if im on a 60 day extension with the purpose of seasoning 400k in the bank then i have to apply for the 1 year extension 15 days or ealier before that extension runs out? 

That is not required to apply for a extension of stay. The 15 days is only needed when apply for a 90 day non immigrant visa at immigration. You can apply for a extension on the last day of your permit it stay if you want to.

[Peter Denis]

6 hours ago, Okis said:

So for example if im on a 60 day extension with the purpose of seasoning 400k in the bank then i have to apply for the 1 year extension 15 days or ealier before that extension runs out? 

 

So if one put the required money in a thai bank 2 months before the expiry of the 60 day extension then it wouldnt be seasoned long enough for a 1 year extension?  So basically if doing this now before the amnesty runs out you would need to start seasoning the money atleast 17 days before applying for the first extension? 

 

I am supposed to apply for 60 day extension on the 15th for this reason but if this is this case then i would have to wait to apply for that extension until 30-31th to make up for the lost 15 days. 

UJ already clarified that you can apply for the 1-year extension of stay until last day of the permission to stay your 60-day extension for reason of visiting your wife provided you. 

So when opting for the 400K money-in-bank method to meet the financial requirements for a 1-year extension of stay, you can deposit the money just before applying for the 60-day extension of stay, and then it will be seasoned for 2 months when applying for the 1-year extension at the end of the permission to stay that 60-day extension provided you.

Alternatively you can also use the monthly-income transfer method, which requires at least 2 transfers of 40K (with foreign origins proven) in the 2 months preceding your application (so if you are running short on 'seasoning time' for the money-in-bank method, using this method might solve that possible issue).  But in that case check with your local IO or on the Forum, what practice your local IO follows, as some IOs (incorrectly) require 3 monthly transfers instead of two.

= = = = =

IMPORTANT

> I am not fully sure that IO will handle your application for the 60-days extension of stay by letting it start from the date of application.  There is at least one report where IO 'back-dated' the 60-days extension of stay and had it start from the date when the permission to stay as stamped in the applicants passport expired.  In that case you will not be able to meet the 'seasoning' requirements for your 1-year extension of stay, when your permission to stay already expired more than 1 month ago during the Amnesty.

Maybe @ubonjoe or @Tanoshi can clarify.

[JackThompson]

11 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Then they must have had their head buried in the sand.

The first confirmed case came on Jan 1st (China) followed by the first confirmed report in Thailand on 13th January. 

So Thailand immediately closed its border to China, right - to protect their people?  No, they listened to the WHO and Beijing, and the "new year" Money.

 

Quote

WHO’s situation report for 30 January reported 7818 total confirmed cases worldwide, with the majority of these in China, and 82 cases reported in 18 countries outside China. WHO gave a risk assessment of very high for China, and high at the global level.

And, the WHO said to keep borders open, which most nations did.  When the USA closed to China, the insults included "xenophobic" and "racist." 

 

Quote

WHO continues to advise against the application of travel or trade restrictions to countries experiencing COVID-19 outbreaks.  (29 February 2020,COVID-19 Travel Advice - WHO Article)

https://www.who.int/news-room/articles-detail/updated-who-recommendations-for-international-traffic-in-relation-to-covid-19-outbreak

 

Quote

By the mid to end of February almost all European Countries had confirmed cases of Covid.

Yet, the borders were still open, and no plan to close them yet.  That happened in March, when world-wide corona-response policy changed.

 

Quote

Maybe some 'tin foil' heads, the prediction was clearly reported by the WHO and lockdowns worldwide were inevitable to contain the spread.

WHO said nothing of the sort until later.  This did not occur for Swine Flu, or previous corona outbreaks (SARS, MERS).

 

You could possibly fault those who left in the last week before the closure, though many of them had to go for work, to support their families - not "for fun" - and now cannot see their families, because of Thailand's cruel policy to "foreign" family members of Thais (typical - only recently amended, after a world-wide campaign publicizing their policy with pics of kids missing 'dad', etc).

Edited July 1, 2020 by JackThompson

[Okis]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

UJ already clarified that you can apply for the 1-year extension of stay until last day of the permission to stay your 60-day extension for reason of visiting your wife provided you. 

So when opting for the 400K money-in-bank method to meet the financial requirements for a 1-year extension of stay, you can deposit the money just before applying for the 60-day extension of stay, and then it will be seasoned for 2 months when applying for the 1-year extension at the end of the permission to stay that 60-day extension provided you.

Alternatively you can also use the monthly-income transfer method, which requires at least 2 transfers of 40K (with foreign origins proven) in the 2 months preceding your application (so if you are running short on 'seasoning time' for the money-in-bank method, using this method might solve that possible issue).  But in that case check with your local IO or on the Forum, what practice your local IO follows, as some IOs (incorrectly) require 3 monthly transfers instead of two.

= = = = =

IMPORTANT

> I am not fully sure that IO will handle your application for the 60-days extension of stay by letting it start from the date of application.  There is at least one report where IO 'back-dated' the 60-days extension of stay and had it start from the date when the permission to stay as stamped in the applicants passport expired.  In that case you will not be able to meet the 'seasoning' requirements for your 1-year extension of stay, when your permission to stay already expired more than 1 month ago during the Amnesty.

Maybe @ubonjoe or @Tanoshi can clarify.

I was down at our office some weeks ago and talked to the boss and he said this could be done without any issues as long as the money is seasoned.  They checked my passport e.tc so they knew the dates of my old non-o entry stamp.

 

I use the Satun office btw. 

Edited July 1, 2020 by Okis

[berrec]

Easy fix, go get yourself a good Visa agent and give them all your documents, pay them for the " IM Special Service Fee" required and they will sort it out for you!

 

Guaranteed to resolve all IM issues.

[Peter Denis]

47 minutes ago, Okis said:

I was down at our office some weeks ago and talked to the boss and he said this could be done without any issues as long as the money is seasoned.  They checked my passport e.tc so they knew the dates of my old non-o entry stamp.

 

I use the Satun office btw. 

Thanks for sharing this.

Does the Satun office even require you to first apply for the 60-day extension of stay for reason of visiting your wife, or would they be willing to process your application for the 1-year extension based on your Non Imm O marriage Visa?

Also, when did your Non Imm O permission to stay expire?

[JackThompson]

56 minutes ago, berrec said:

Easy fix, go get yourself a good Visa agent and give them all your documents, pay them for the " IM Special Service Fee" required and they will sort it out for you!

 

Guaranteed to resolve all IM issues.

No harm in trying in-person the honest way first, taking everything you see reported here as being required.  But much better to do that with a full understanding what kind of place you are walking into, and have "Plan B" in mind.  That way, if things go sideways, it is less of a shock.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Yet, the borders were still open, and no plan to close them yet.  That happened in March, when world-wide corona-response policy changed.

Correct, but if you couldn't anticipate that happening in February you must have been wearing blinkers.

 

I had family due to visit for Songkran in April, but mid February we cancelled those plans in anticipation of exactly what followed - lockdowns. I don't deny it sucks, but we're in unprecedented times.

The last thing Thailand wants is to lift restrictions to early and have a second wave after it's initial handling of the situation was hailed for it's success in handling the crisis.

 

For every foreigner stuck abroad, desperate to get back into Thailand, there is another foreigners in Thailand who made conscious decisions not to travel back to their home Countries when they could have and still can.

[Okis]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

Thanks for sharing this.

Does the Satun office even require you to first apply for the 60-day extension of stay for reason of visiting your wife, or would they be willing to process your application for the 1-year extension based on your Non Imm O marriage Visa?

Also, when did your Non Imm O permission to stay expire?

Didnt ask about that actually.  Just asked if i could do a 60 day extension with a expired multiple entry non-o so i could season the 400k. 

 

My non-0 entry expired 14 june. 

 

I think i read the report you talked about and that seems to be regarding the embassy letter covid extension and alot of people had the same problem and some was even told go back back home because according to some io's the amnesty didnt cover people who used those extensions. 

Edited July 1, 2020 by Okis

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Correct, but if you couldn't anticipate that happening in February you must have been wearing blinkers.

...

Please link to where you warned everyone about a multi-month border-shutdown back then.

[Peter Denis]

11 minutes ago, Okis said:

Didnt ask about that actually.  Just asked if i could do a 60 day extension with a expired multiple entry non-o so i could season the 400k. 

 

My non-0 entry expired 14 june. 

 

I think i read the report you talked about and that seems to be regarding the embassy letter covid extension and alot of people had the same problem and some was even told go back back home because according to some io's the amnesty didnt cover people who used those extensions. 

Thanks for response.

There will be no issue whatsoever for you, because even if IO back-dates your 60-day extension of stay from the 14 June expiry date of your Non Imm O permission to stay, you would get a permission to stay till 12 August.  That will allow you to apply before that date for your 1-year extension of stay, and give you sufficient time to meet the 2-month seasoning requirement of your financials (which you apparently already started with your 400K transfer).

[macgver]

Maybe possible to use agent in the Isaan to do it for you (marriage visa), but it is quite expensive. Check with the agent.

[Tanoshi]

41 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Please link to where you warned everyone about a multi-month border-shutdown back then.

I've never stated I warned everyone.

[Snow Leopard]

22 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Yes I was in almost same situation but somewhat earlier.

My Non Imm O-A Visa was valid till 18 June 2020, and I hoped I would have the chance to do a quick border-run before its validity expired, but with borders closed I was not able to do that.

Luckily I didn't lose my full 2nd year, as I had made a trip to Cambodia and re-entered Thailand end of January, so my permission to stay is valid till end January 2021.  But indeed I lost 4,5 months of my potential full 2nd year due to these border-closures.

@Snow Leopard >> In your post you mentioned the issue date of your Non Imm O-A Visa, but it is the 'valid until' date which is of relevance, in your case that will probably be 30 July 2020.  So if you are able to exit and re-enter before that date you will secure a full 2nd year permission of stay.  Hope that will possible by then.  Cheers!

Cheers Peter. You are correct the valid until date is one day before the issue date. 30 July 2020. It is a bit of a bummer. Ticket is or was booked for the 3rd of July to the UK. I will probably change it now until the 3rd of September and visit the Thai embassy whilst in the UK. 

[OJAS]

58 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said:

visit the Thai embassy whilst in the UK.

To apply for a fresh non-OA visa, presumably? If so, then I think that the following page on the Embassy's website is essential reading in your case, first and foremost:-

 

http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/7742/84508-Non-Immigrant-visas.html

 

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, Snow Leopard said:

Cheers Peter. You are correct the valid until date is one day before the issue date. 30 July 2020. It is a bit of a bummer. Ticket is or was booked for the 3rd of July to the UK. I will probably change it now until the 3rd of September and visit the Thai embassy whilst in the UK. 

Have you considered other options instead of the O-A Visa?

My other concern would be restrictions on returning to Thailand.

[Mulambana]

On 6/30/2020 at 9:38 AM, Tanoshi said:

Then they must have had their head buried in the sand.

The first confirmed case came on Jan 1st (China) followed by the first confirmed report in Thailand on 13th January. 

WHO’s situation report for 30 January reported 7818 total confirmed cases worldwide, with the majority of these in China, and 82 cases reported in 18 countries outside China. WHO gave a risk assessment of very high for China, and high at the global level.

By the mid to end of February almost all European Countries had confirmed cases of Covid.

 

Maybe some 'tin foil' heads, the prediction was clearly reported by the WHO and lockdowns worldwide were inevitable to contain the spread.

I was on the top of the news but I can say that in February there was very little indication of the impending doom unfolding through out the World. I had my flight out of Thailand on March 21. I even got a re-entry permit in the last week of Feb. In the second week of March when I started getting notifications for flight rescheduling and cancellations, I started growing suspicious and could initutively feel that it is not wise to travel to the US. On March 15, I cancelled my flight. The SARS and H1N1 pandemics were in my minds and never anticipated the travel gloom that was going to engulf the World within weeks. 

Edited July 1, 2020 by Mulambana

[Snow Leopard]

13 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Have you considered other options instead of the O-A Visa?

My other concern would be restrictions on returning to Thailand.

Yes i have but i am in a limbo state at the moment. O&A works for me right now but in a few years i will change it to O.