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How strong do you need to be?


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On 7/1/2020 at 8:32 PM, Puchaiyank said:

Nothing shows the Thai disdain for farangs more than a good fist fight...

 

You use your fists...and any number of Thais will punch, kick, and use objects to show their disapproval...

 

Best to try to avoid heated confrontations!

Dont know about the throwing of things, but using kicks during a fight is a cultural thing. Why in thailand, during a street fight would they conform to your rules?

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Unfortunately this  often leads to a situation where one  person is dead and the other is  in jail for a very  long  time there is no  winner. There  is no answer and life aint fair.

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16 minutes ago, bodga said:

Unfortunately this  often leads to a situation where one  person is dead and the other is  in jail for a very  long  time there is no  winner. There  is no answer and life aint fair.

Its all fun and games until somebody loses an eye.

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And from what I have seen and read on TV, some of these thugs have no respect for the elderly. Will still kick the **** out of an eighty year old as much as a twenty year old.

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On 7/1/2020 at 9:04 PM, bigupandchill said:

It is received wisdom on this forum that a falang will always loose to a thai in a fight. Why is that? One on one I feel like I could squish most locals here with my bare hands, so is it 'back up' that will make the difference, or am I missing something?

Yep you may beat the living Sh!!t out of one but he will come back and Do you over With All his Mates If you Lucky you may Live to talk about it . Be Smart Don't Argue Don't let it come to a Fight  Walk Away if you can.

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1 hour ago, n00dle said:

Dont know about the throwing of things, but using kicks during a fight is a cultural thing. Why in thailand, during a street fight would they conform to your rules?

What rules?  I am referring to the numbers of Thais that want to get in on the action of beating an elderly farang.  You should be so proud. 

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If you have a desire to fight people (and don't want to risk being killed by a knife, shot, or piped to death from behind by a bystander), after you're lucky enough to badly buzz of KO one fella that is (unless of course you don't make a fatal mistake and pick a professional fighter) then I suggest you go to any Muay Thai gym in the country and say you want to spar/fight they will oblige you as long as the day is long. There you'll be able to try and hit a long line of fellas as hard as you like. If you want to fight bare knuckle as in street-work then they will most likely oblige you even more readily.

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5 hours ago, elgenon said:

I have seen several big, muscular falangs think they can beat the smaller Thai only to easily get whupped.

 

A guy at my gym trains falang fighters and said a real Thai fighter will break  young palm trees with his legs to toughen them up.

Is it banana tree or Palm tree? I don't think you can break palm tree with legs, really I don't. But I have seen Youtube thais training on banana trees, by the way if you think banana trees are soft, you should kick it and see how it feels.

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Do you need to be an expert to win fights in Thailand.

 

I have a decent jaw and not bad punches.

 

If anything kicks might need to be something I work on.

 

When fighting random people is it fair game?

 

 

depending on ur weight and age ill be happy to spire with  you if u fancy it ?

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17 hours ago, poloshirt said:

Is it banana tree or Palm tree? I don't think you can break palm tree with legs, really I don't. But I have seen Youtube thais training on banana trees, by the way if you think banana trees are soft, you should kick it and see how it feels.

Thanks to you too .I can't imagine doing it. Anyway, the point is don't think you can beat a Thai at Muay Thai just because he is smaller. Not only are the kicks vicious but the farangs get winded before a minute has passed.  Big respect!

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On 7/1/2020 at 3:11 PM, finy said:

 

If anything kicks might need to be something I work on.

 

 

Don't bother. Your "ok jaw" won't save you from dead leg(s) once you've taken a couple low kicks... I know guys who were doing low level pro fights here in Europe, and they succumbed to the low kicks when fighting in Thailand. Let alone someone who has to work on it.

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On 1/17/2021 at 10:48 PM, FarangULong said:

Don't bother. Your "ok jaw" won't save you from dead leg(s) once you've taken a couple low kicks... I know guys who were doing low level pro fights here in Europe, and they succumbed to the low kicks when fighting in Thailand. Let alone someone who has to work on it.

According to Larry, a Prison Emergency Response Team leader, four to five inches above the knee, on the outside of the thigh, is a zone that - if kicked - will render the leg practically useless. Unlike the shins, this zone cannot, other than building the surrounding muscle, be toughened up. I wonder how the Thai boxers defend the zone?

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On 2/23/2021 at 1:42 AM, rcuthbert said:

According to Larry, a Prison Emergency Response Team leader, four to five inches above the knee, on the outside of the thigh, is a zone that - if kicked - will render the leg practically useless. Unlike the shins, this zone cannot, other than building the surrounding muscle, be toughened up. I wonder how the Thai boxers defend the zone?

Not related to Muay Thai, but there's this street fighting move my grandfather taught me as a young boy. In German (at least Austrian German "slang") it's called "Eisenbahner" (rail roader), where basically you slam your knee into that part of the thigh. It has the same effect, of giving you a dead leg, due to that nerve center being there.

 

That's how I figured out right away, when I watched Muay Thai for the first time, why they were kicking the leg, and why it was effective.

 

Low kicks are also effective to the inside of the thigh (mostly done with your front leg, but you can also do it with your rear leg, especially if you're fighting in opposing stances [as in one is Southpaw, the other Orthodox]). A little bit higher up than the "middle", like roughly in the middle between the "middle" of your inner thigh, and the groin (or a bit higher even, but careful with the nut shots in a match/sparring). That's also nasty.

You can also knee the thigh from the clinch, rather than just going for the body/ribs and the head. Different from the "Eisenbahner" move, though (because that move is done when you're standing to the side of the intended victim, whereas in the clinch you#d be in front of them, hence different motions/knee strikes)...

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11 hours ago, FarangULong said:

Not related to Muay Thai, but there's this street fighting move my grandfather taught me as a young boy. In German (at least Austrian German "slang") it's called "Eisenbahner" (rail roader), where basically you slam your knee into that part of the thigh. It has the same effect, of giving you a dead leg, due to that nerve center being there.

 

That's how I figured out right away, when I watched Muay Thai for the first time, why they were kicking the leg, and why it was effective.

 

Low kicks are also effective to the inside of the thigh (mostly done with your front leg, but you can also do it with your rear leg, especially if you're fighting in opposing stances [as in one is Southpaw, the other Orthodox]). A little bit higher up than the "middle", like roughly in the middle between the "middle" of your inner thigh, and the groin (or a bit higher even, but careful with the nut shots in a match/sparring). That's also nasty.

You can also knee the thigh from the clinch, rather than just going for the body/ribs and the head. Different from the "Eisenbahner" move, though (because that move is done when you're standing to the side of the intended victim, whereas in the clinch you#d be in front of them, hence different motions/knee strikes)...

Thanks for the info'.

Cheers.

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On 7/1/2020 at 8:25 PM, bwpage3 said:

Always true when 10 bystanders jump in the fight

I am pretty sure that is against Muay Thai rules... 

They limit it to 3-4 Thai bystanders in the ring at one time... 

Edited by 1FinickyOne
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On 7/3/2020 at 5:33 AM, elgenon said:

I have seen several big, muscular falangs think they can beat the smaller Thai only to easily get whupped.

 

A guy at my gym trains falang fighters and said a real Thai fighter will break  young palm trees with his legs to toughen them up.

banana trees. Palm tree is a very, very bad idea.

 

Banana trees are "softer", and they give a lot more, when you kick them. They do look a little bit like palm trees. Not really, but kinda..

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On 7/3/2020 at 4:00 AM, TKDfella said:

Ha, I thought the OP was asking about competition because surely everyone knows there are no rules in street fighting. Well, that's not strictly true because if one is a martial artist there are rules about what techniques one shouldn't try. For example, the spin/jump spin back kick is fine on a controlled surface such as competition mats or in a ring and where your opponent is playing by the same rules. In a street fight surfaces vary a great deal, especially in Thailand, and if one is not wearing protective footwear then your feet are going to suffer. Trying a back kick means offering your back towards the opponent and that's a mistake. Even though one can perform high kicks (in the dojo, dojang etc.) trying that in the street will open the legs and groin to attack. If one is outnumbered look for a 'weak' link, keep punches and kicks below chest level, then attempt escape through the 'weak' link.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. I NEVER use flashy <deleted> in street situations. I stick to the basics, and I refrain from throwing any kicks above the lower mid-section (ie kick to the liver or short ribs is as high as I will go), preferably low kicks only.

 

Bars etc have drinks etc spilled over the place, great way to slip. And even if you don't slip, all it takes for one kick not being hard enough and/or being caught, and down you go. And once you're down, the stomping and soccer kicking will inevitably occur.

 

That's why I also agree, with all the people saying to simply NOT fight in the street in LOS, unless there is NO other option.

Generally I'm not one to shy away, from aggressive <deleted>. I'm not trying to say I'm the hardest guy around, I'm not. I got my ass kicked plenty of times, trying my luck/not backing away from the wrong guy (there's ALWAYS at least one guy tougher, no matter who you are) or getting attacked by multiple people.

 

But when I'm in certain regions, I do my best to swallow my pride. Ie last time in Thailand some skinny, heroin addict looking like Backpacker got aggressive with me, over me asking him a question, and even when I explained why I asked him out of all people, he was all paranoid, overly aggressive, threatening me, etc. I was very tempted to tap him on the chin. I resisted, because even if it's a fight between farangs, chances are the locals will join in the fun.

 

I'm not that worried about a simple whooping, but I've seen people (and heard plenty of stories) get hit with pipes, get stabbed multiple times, and I've seen guns come out of manpurses (that's when I figured out, why so many Thais wear them... obviously not all of them with manpurses, but quite a few..), and life is cheap in some places. Especially considering that this was Sukhumvit Road, so plenty of thuglings and other scum out and about.

 

So I simply let him make his threats. If he had come up on me, different story, but luckily he was just talking.

What I've also seen a lot, is drunk guys arguing in bars (over tabs, or whatever), and it's not the guy in front of you, that you have to worry about. Most fights I saw, some other Thai simply sucker punched them, hard shot to the chin/jaw, and they're out (it's the punches you don't see coming, that knock you down/out), and even if not out cold, they'll get stomped out. If they're "lucky". Less lucky, and they'll get slashed, stabbed, etc. Not to mention the ensuing police trouble, hospital costs, etc.

 

It's simply not worth it.

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On 3/22/2021 at 6:47 AM, FarangULong said:

banana trees. Palm tree is a very, very bad idea.

 

Banana trees are "softer", and they give a lot more, when you kick them. They do look a little bit like palm trees. Not really, but kinda..

Thanks for setting me straight. I wouldn't attempt either. I admire the dedication. 

 

On 3/22/2021 at 6:59 AM, FarangULong said:

 

 

I couldn't agree more. I NEVER use flashy <deleted> in street situations. I stick to the basics, and I refrain from throwing any kicks above the lower mid-section (ie kick to the liver or short ribs is as high as I will go), preferably low kicks only.

 

Bars etc have drinks etc spilled over the place, great way to slip. And even if you don't slip, all it takes for one kick not being hard enough and/or being caught, and down you go. And once you're down, the stomping and soccer kicking will inevitably occur.

 

That's why I also agree, with all the people saying to simply NOT fight in the street in LOS, unless there is NO other option.

Generally I'm not one to shy away, from aggressive <deleted>. I'm not trying to say I'm the hardest guy around, I'm not. I got my ass kicked plenty of times, trying my luck/not backing away from the wrong guy (there's ALWAYS at least one guy tougher, no matter who you are) or getting attacked by multiple people.

 

But when I'm in certain regions, I do my best to swallow my pride. Ie last time in Thailand some skinny, heroin addict looking like Backpacker got aggressive with me, over me asking him a question, and even when I explained why I asked him out of all people, he was all paranoid, overly aggressive, threatening me, etc. I was very tempted to tap him on the chin. I resisted, because even if it's a fight between farangs, chances are the locals will join in the fun.

 

I'm not that worried about a simple whooping, but I've seen people (and heard plenty of stories) get hit with pipes, get stabbed multiple times, and I've seen guns come out of manpurses (that's when I figured out, why so many Thais wear them... obviously not all of them with manpurses, but quite a few..), and life is cheap in some places. Especially considering that this was Sukhumvit Road, so plenty of thuglings and other scum out and about.

 

So I simply let him make his threats. If he had come up on me, different story, but luckily he was just talking.

What I've also seen a lot, is drunk guys arguing in bars (over tabs, or whatever), and it's not the guy in front of you, that you have to worry about. Most fights I saw, some other Thai simply sucker punched them, hard shot to the chin/jaw, and they're out (it's the punches you don't see coming, that knock you down/out), and even if not out cold, they'll get stomped out. If they're "lucky". Less lucky, and they'll get slashed, stabbed, etc. Not to mention the ensuing police trouble, hospital costs, etc.

 

It's simply not worth it.

I have witnessed fights where I thought one of the fighters couldn't lose. Then he tripped or slipped.

Over. 

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If - and that's a big if - you win, you could end up in the Bangkok Hilton. You would be known as  "the Farang who [email protected]#t kicked a Thai".

"Don't mess with quiet guys" is an adage to heed. Why? Because messing with them works every time - except once.

As it has already been said, street fights are an entirely different animal...

 

 

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On 3/17/2021 at 7:30 PM, FarangULong said:

Yes. You have a nerve center there on the side of your thigh. It basically gives you "dead leg". Sorry for the late response, I have been otherwise engaged.

 

Basically you condition your thigh to take the kicks (through drills and sparring), just like you condition your shins (both the part of the tibia just above your foot, which is the part you kick with, as well as the part just below the knee, which is the hardest part of your shin, and which is used to "check" kicks to the legs and to the midsection [rib cage etc.]) by first doing drills against each other and sparring with pads (similar to the ones used in football ["soccer"] except thicker, they go up almost all the way to your knee, and they also cover your foot/instep) and by kicking striking pads (held by the coach/your partner)/shields, heavy bags, and ofc the infamous banana tree...

 

Some people do stupid <deleted> like rolling bottles down their shin, to "toughen" the bone (basically from the sparring, kicking, checking etc. their are tiny, hairline-esque fractures, and when it heals the bone gets stronger from the extra calcium deposits - sorry if I use wrong terminology, I'm not a native English speaker - but which is also part of the reason why many Thai Nak Muays are absolutely shot by the time they reach their mid to late 20s, whereas that's when people in other [combat-]sports are just reaching their prime... 100s of fights, extensive and prolonged damage to their body, bones, joints, etc..), but I wouldn't advise that.

 

The only way you can learn to deal with it, is basically by taking kicks to the thigh (albeit not full force at first + with shin pads), so basically the same as in Boxing etc. where you "condition" your face/skin to take punches, and not redden (from the tiny, popped blood vessels, that make it look like you have acne) and bruise so easily, and ofc your body/ribs to take bodyshots.

 

And of course by learning how to check kicks, with aforementioned part of your shin (you also angle your leg when checking, as in angling it to the incoming kick). Which is why it's so important to condition the lower tibia for kicking, as that part of the shin which you check with is so much harder, that any non trained person will most likely break their leg if they kick and get checked...

 

I don't know if you remember that silly Van Damme movie "Kickboxer" (which granted was PART of the reason, why Muay Thai became known and popular in the West, like the actual fight between Duke Roufus - back then a well known Kickboxing World Champion - and Kietsongrit of Thailand, a stadium champion - I believe Lumpinee, but don't quote me on it, which was basically Muay Thai vs Kickboxing, to prove which one was "superior"... Roufus succumbed to Kitsongrit's lowkicks, after initially knocking him down a couple times with punches; back then, just like for years to come after, the Thais barely boxed with their hands, as you didn't get points for punches, unless you landed a really hard shot, that rocked the opponent or knocked him down/out... but gotta give him credit, as he must've done some research on Muay Thai and conditioned his legs, as no one would've lasted that long and for so many low kicks, without doing some training in that aspect, no matter how tough.. back then Kickboxing wasn't like today's "new" Kickboxing, those K-1 hybrid styles which are essentially Muay Thai minus the elbows and sometimes minus the Thai clinch/throws, and they didn't do kicking below the waist.. it was essentially Full Contact Karate, Kyokushin in long pants instead of Gi/Kimono and with footpads and boxing gloves + punches to the head allowed...), where the story line is Van Damme's brother is a Kickboxing Heavyweight Champ, and upon being told by some reporter post fight that the best "Kickboxers" are in Thailand, that he'd go there and beat the best they had to offer. Long story short, he goes there, fights the local Champ, get's his ass kicked because of the difference in styles etc. and ends up in a wheel chair. Van Damme learns Muay Thai from the Thai equivalent of Mister Miyagi, and ends up getting revenge for his brother in an old school fight (hemp ropes instead of gloves, and some exaggerated stuff like dipping the hemp into glue and broken glass...)...

 

Anyway, the guy playing his brother in the movie, was a dude named Dennis Alexio, who was a real life professional Kickboxing Champion... after the movie, he got it into his head to also fight Muay Thai... apparently though, he didn't learn anything from the movie plot, and didn't prepare well enough..

 

He threw ONE kick. The kick was checked by his opponent, and that was the end of the fight. It was one of the most gruesome things, I have ever seen in combat sports, and I have literally watched hundreds of fights in Boxing, MMA, Muay Thai, K-1, etc., both high level stuff and local shows (where imo due to mismatches and bad refs, I've often seen worse <deleted> happening than in many top tier events... which is NOT a good thing), on TV and in person...

 

When his shin impacted on the other guy's shin, he S H A T T E R E D BOTH his tibia and his fibula (the two bones in your lower leg/calf/whatever you call it in English)... when his foot came back onto the ground, the break was so bad, that his leg couldn't support the weight, and it TWISTED in a bizarre way, and he tumbled to the ground.

 

I haven't seen that fight in years, and yet just typing about it, it all comes back in every gory detail, burned into my eyes and mind forever... You can probably see the fight on YouTube (just google Dennis Alexio Muay Thai fight or Dennis Alexio Muay Thai debut), if you want to, so you can see for yourself.

 

Sorry for the long post, but since I most likely won't be around much for the next weeks, I figured I'd make it as detailed as I can think of, right now, in case you might have additional questions.

This is one of the most informative combat posts that I have  ever seen.

Cheers.

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