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It’s time to scrap two-tiered pricing for foreigners in Thailand: TAT spokesman

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, kamma said:

Many people just throw out random figures like it's fact or something?!

Where did you get that 20% figure from? Pulled that dirty rabbit straight out of your a**?!

Under 4M Thai paid income tax in 2019 according to the Thai Revenue Department.

(Google "Revenue Department targets online vendors") im not allowed to quote or link as per forum rules.

2018 population of Thailand 70M (lets assume 1/3 are children or in education and 1/3 retired), leaving 23M of working age.

 

A simple calculation gives me under 4m out of 23M = 18% of the working population paid income tax in 2019.

HOWZAT!

 

Edited by BritManToo
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2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Under 4M Thai paid income tax in 2019 according to the Thai Revenue Department.

(Google "Revenue Department targets online vendors") im not allowed to quote or link as per forum rules.

2018 population of Thailand 70M (lets assume 1/3 are children or in education and 1/3 retired), leaving 23M of working age.

 

A simple calculation gives me under 4m out of 23M = 18% of the working population paid income tax in 2019.

HOWZAT!

 

There's a few ways to cut those numbers, the one I like is:

 

The workforce comprises 26 million people, out of a population of 70 million.

 

11% of pay tax through A PAYE equivalent system, that's almost 3 million people, everyone else pays tax on the basis of a tax return or doesn't pay tax at all.

 

You and I actually not far apart on this.

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So after all these years, it's only now that it "does not make sense"? Horse had bolted mate.

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7 hours ago, getithere328 said:

We've been doing it for years in the southwest of England, the moment the holiday makers come down the price goes up. However, it doesn't matter if your foreign of English, we still charge you more.

 

right as well,if these people want to come   onto your manor,they pay,they,re only mugs.

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On 7/4/2020 at 2:40 AM, Oziex1 said:

And how do they intend to sort the two tier system? Is it possible that it will be the Thais who will pay the high falang price as well from now on?

There was a study a few years ago that surveyed visitors and others and found that for national parks, the majority of Thai people were prepared to double their entrance fee.

The income from foreigners is not significant in the overall funding of the parks.

 

The problem is not just the 2 tier system in the national parks, it is the overall management which needs also to deal with visitors in a more eco-friendly and efficient manner.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/4/2020 at 4:46 PM, pacovl46 said:

If you stay longer than a night and you want to leave the park you can get a stamp so you won’t have to pay again when you get back later that same day. I’ve done that numerous times. You just need to talk to the people at the entrance before you leave the park. 
 

If you’re too stingy to fork out some money to see an awesome park once in your life then so be it. Don’t ever try to go to Disneyland with your family then either, or any amusement park for that matter. Me personally, I love Khao Yai, it’s my favorite place on earth and the few times I actually had to pay the 400 were fully worth it. No regrets on my part, but hey, to each their own! 

Sorry I wasn't making myself clear. If you are camping within the park you may be able to get a reentry stamp....if you can find a ranger after hours... If you stay outside overnight this is technically not possible. Of course, many who visit parks  on tours especially marine parks, dont realise their 10-fold fee has already been included in the price

 

Once people use the word "stingy", I would suggest they lose all validity to their argument as it shows they dont really grasp the basic argument against 2-tier pricing in NPs. It's to do with effectiveness, attitude and policy and the overall results.

 

I have visited NPs long and short term all over Thailand, I'm especially fond of the parks in the WFC and in the past often used to get the full foreign price waived. However, I have to say even the local officials seem embarrassed asking for that since the clampdown started a few years back.

 

I am not just  a "once in a life time" visitor,  they are a frequent experience for me, I visit them regularly and take a great interest in Thailands conservation efforts.

 

Khso Yai is an example of how Thaiiland is failing in many aspects  of park management with some of the highest visitor numbers outside the marine parks (they are the exception for foreign visitor funding BTW). The mismanagement of the park and visitors is leading to wildlife human confrontation and conflict, encroachment by resorts and unregulated  access to the more isolated areas.

 

 

PS for those who moan about not seeing wildlife....... National Parks are not ZOOS!!. Most of the NPs are rain forest... you dont see animals face to face like you would on the Serengeti.

Thailand's NPs have one of the highest concentration of flora and fauna outside the Amazon. However if they want to manage and conserve this, they need to start doing it professionally and part of this would entail scrapping the 2 tier pricing system and then concrntrating on what matters.

Edited by Airbagwill

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On 7/2/2020 at 12:19 PM, djayz said:

I don't believe my eyes!!! 

seeing is to believe....but we are in thailand......and we NOT see anything YET....!!

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Suddenly there is desperation.

Maybe a little late to stop the slide, but happy to see reality start to hit in; Thailand far not as popular as much as it was 15-20 yrs ago.

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13 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Sorry I wasn't making myself clear. If you are camping within the park you may be able to get a reentry stamp....if you can find a ranger after hours... If you stay outside overnight this is technically not possible. Of course, many who visit parks  on tours especially marine parks, dont realise their 10-fold fee has already been included in the price

 

Once people use the word "stingy", I would suggest they lose all validity to their argument as it shows they dont really grasp the basic argument against 2-tier pricing in NPs. It's to do with effectiveness, attitude and policy and the overall results.

 

I have visited NPs long and short term all over Thailand, I'm especially fond of the parks in the WFC and in the past often used to get the full foreign price waived. However, I have to say even the local officials seem embarrassed asking for that since the clampdown started a few years back.

 

I am not just  a "once in a life time" visitor,  they are a frequent experience for me, I visit them regularly and take a great interest in Thailands conservation efforts.

 

Khso Yai is an example of how Thaiiland is failing in many aspects  of park management with some of the highest visitor numbers outside the marine parks (they are the exception for foreign visitor funding BTW). The mismanagement of the park and visitors is leading to wildlife human confrontation and conflict, encroachment by resorts and unregulated  access to the more isolated areas.

 

 

PS for those who moan about not seeing wildlife....... National Parks are not ZOOS!!. Most of the NPs are rain forest... you dont see animals face to face like you would on the Serengeti.

Thailand's NPs have one of the highest concentration of flora and fauna outside the Amazon. However if they want to manage and conserve this, they need to start doing it professionally and part of this would entail scrapping the 2 tier pricing system and then concrntrating on what matters.

Right, if me using the word stingy makes me lose the argument then so be it! It’s their country and they can do with the pricing what they want and you just have to suck it up or not go there! It’s that simple! 

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17 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Right, if me using the word stingy makes me lose the argument then so be it! It’s their country and they can do with the pricing what they want and you just have to suck it up or not go there! It’s that simple! 

You've just proved my point.

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On 7/2/2020 at 8:18 AM, BritManToo said:

Only 20% of Thais have ever paid income tax.

We all pay VAT and import tax.

Not quite sure what the implication of this is.

 

Are you saying that Thai people avoid tax or simply that most people's income is too low to qualify for tax.

 

How do you connect this to 2 tier funding?

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There are some rather distorted perspectives on the 2-tier system and how Thai National parks are funded.

 

Entrance fees are only part of how the parks are funded and rather than a source of extra income, the higher prices paid by foreign visitors are more a source of antagonism.

 

The funding for NPs largely comes from the government’s coffers but successive government have deliberately tried to dodge their responsibilities by diverting attention away from themselves and claiming that entrance fees make a difference - this is bull.  Entrance fees contribute little as they are not related to general “WTP” factors or are too small to make a difference and are not tailored to individual parks.

 

Thailand has a huge number of NPs of varying sizes and conditions.

The problem has been that although the number of parks and the areas covered has increased exponentially, the funding has remained almost static.....this means with every new opening the funding has had to be spread more and more thinly.

People bandy about figures for numbers of visitors as if they are real or even relevant - the fact is that visitors paying entrance fees rarely helps.

 

The major marine parks attractive by far the most foreigners and this has an effect, but outside them, parks like Khao Yai and Doi Suthep accept large numbers of visitors who are mostly Thais paying only the “nominal fee.......research has already shown in these places that WTP consideration would allow considerable price increases to Thai visitors and this in turn could be accompanied by the abolition of the 2-tier system........

 

Other larger or less visited parks have vey few visitors throughout the year and the numbers of foreigners are in all respects negligible.....therefore have not noticeable effect on income for the park.

 

In fact, the whole concept of charging both for Thai people and foreigners is basically flawed and needs to be scrapped.......but it is the ignorance and obduracy of the authorities that is preventing this and as a result perpetuating the underfunding and concomitant damage to wildlife and the environment, as well as antagonising or putting off many foreign visitors together with the spin-off income/business they attract.

 

What we are witnessing is a slow and painful disaster - the loss of Thailand’s remaining natural environment, in the hands of incompetent administration.

 

The solution which has been researched in places like Khao Yai is to tailor admission fees to the facilities offered (most of which need improving) by individual parks and the WTP of the customer demographic. This does not include a 2-tier system, and a “one-price-fits-all” blanket charge throughout the country is just nonsense.

 

If extra funds do need to be raised from the visiting public a far more effective way is though “value-added experience” - visitors are encouraged to make use through choice the  facilities, activities and products that reflect the particular nature of the attraction or park they are visiting. This has been shown time and again to make more money that admission fess and creates a much higher level of customer satisfaction.

 

Furthermore with correct management of the areas in their charge the DNP can dramatically increase the numbers of visitors without increasing damage to the environment - in fact the extra funding can be put to good use in funding conservation and protection of the countries wildlife resources.

 

It is essential that the government faces up to their responsibilities and rather than hiding behind the non-issue of entrance fees, addresses the reality of the situation and increases funding to ALL National Parks and related facilities; if this is achieved, it would improve the environment, improve the experience and improve the conservation of wildlife. Charging foreigners extra is just self destructive on so many levels and will NEVER solve the problem....although that appears to be what the authorities would have us believe.

 

Entrance fees are only part of how the parks are funded and rather than a source of extra income, the higher prices paid by foreign visitors are more a source of antagonism.

 

The funding for NPs largely comes from the government’s coffers but successive government have deliberately tried to dodge their responsibilities by diverting attention away from themselves and claiming that entrance fees make a difference - this is bull.  Entrance fees contribute little as they are not related to general “WTP” factors or are too small to make a difference and are not tailored to individual parks.

 

Thailand has a huge number of NPs of varying sizes and conditions.

The problem has been that although the number of parks and the areas covered has increased exponentially, the funding has remained almost static.....this means with every new opening the funding has had to be spread more and more thinly.

People bandy about figures for numbers of visitors as if they are real or even relevant - the fact is that visitors paying entrance fees rarely helps.

 

The major marine parks attractive by far the most foreigners and this has an effect, but outside them, parks like Khao Yai and Doi Suthep accept large numbers of visitors who are mostly Thais paying only the “nominal fee.......research has already shown in these places that WTP consideration would allow considerable price increases to Thai visitors and this in turn could be accompanied by the abolition of the 2-tier system........

 

Other larger or less visited parks have vey few visitors throughout the year and the numbers of foreigners are in all respects negligible.....therefore have not noticeable effect on income for the park.

 

In fact, the whole concept of charging both for Thai people and foreigners is basically flawed and needs to be scrapped.......but it is the ignorance and obduracy of the authorities that is preventing this and as a result perpetuating the underfunding and concomitant damage to wildlife and the environment, as well as antagonising or putting off many foreign visitors together with the spin-off income/business they attract.

 

What we are witnessing is a slow and painful disaster - the loss of Thailand’s remaining natural environment, in the hands of incompetent administration.

 

The solution which has been researched in places like Khao Yai is to tailor admission fees to the facilities offered (most of which need improving) by individual parks and the WTP of the customer demographic. This does not include a 2-tier system, and a “one-price-fits-all” blanket charge throughout the country is just nonsense.

 

If extra funds do need to be raised from the visiting public a far more effective way is though “value-added experience” - visitors are encouraged to make use through choice the  facilities, activities and products that reflect the particular nature of the attraction or park they are visiting. This has been shown time and again to make more money that admission fess and creates a much higher level of customer satisfaction.

 

Furthermore with correct management of the areas in their charge the DNP can dramatically increase the numbers of visitors without increasing damage to the environment - in fact the extra funding can be put to good use in funding conservation and protection of the countries wildlife resources.

 

It is essential that the government faces up to their responsibilities and rather than hiding behind the non-issue of entrance fees, addresses the reality of the situation and increases funding to ALL National Parks and related facilities; if this is achieved, it would improve the environment, improve the experience and improve the conservation of wildlife. Charging foreigners extra is just self destructive on so many levels and will NEVER solve the problem....although that appears to be what the authorities would have us believe.

 

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Good God

What on earth is happening 

Foreigners will be allowed to buy land next 

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Off-topic, troll post reported and removed.  

 

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Some off topic posts, troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

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