Planning for getting Non-O based on retirement

[david_je]

I hold a US passport. My Non-OA stay based on retirement expired today and, making use of amnesty, I did not extend so I can later get a non-O, to avoid buying bad health insurance.

My questions:

1.       If amnesty not extended, must I leave country on July 31 or Aug 1?

2.       I had planned to go abroad Aug 7. If amnesty not extended, is there some way I can stay in Thailand that one more week? I see mention here of getting a letter from US embassy requesting immigration to extend stay. Has anyone ever done that, what does that involve?

3.       I just got a new passport (renewal). I don’t need to have the now-expired Non-OA visa/extension transferred to my new passport, correct?

4.       When I return to Thailand in December, I just enter visa exempt and go apply at CW for Non-O using the 800,000 I already have in my account as Non-OA requirement, correct?

Thank you for your help.

[Olmate]

Have you ok,d this with your IO, many here have suggested your on overstay now?

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Have you ok,d this with your IO, many here have suggested your on overstay now?

That is false info from an officer. There is no overstaying at this time unless you were on one prior to March 26th.

[DrJack54]

OP, I can understand your wish to change to non O and get rid of the non O-A and it's ridiculous Thai insurance

However at this time I would do one more year with the extension to the O-A.

I realize it has expired just now, however being under amnesty you most likely still can obtain extension. There is cheap throw away insurance that you can obtain.

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by DrJack54

[ubonjoe]

To OP

I think the amnesty will be extended.

When did your OA visa expire?

If the amnesty is not extended you could apply for an extension, pay 1900 baht and be granted 7 days to leave the country.

The first day of overstay would be August 1st if you did not leave the country on or before the 31st.

[Peter Denis]

Hi David,

Due to the covid-19 situation, your timing is very unfortunate.

By not extending your present 1-year extension of stay based on your original Non Imm O-A Visa, you have limited your options for staying in Thailand.  There will be no overstay fines or re-entry bans, as you are covered by the Amnesty till 31 July (if it is not extended).

But you are expected to leave the country before or ultimately on the end date of the Amnesty.  As UJ wrote from 1 August on you would be on over-stay.  There is of course the option to apply for an extension at the end of the Amnesty, and since you do not qualify for any extension IO will then provide you with 7 days, to allow you leaving the country.

Since you planned to go abroad on 7 August, you could just do that on that very last day of the 7-day granted.

Other alternatives:

1 - IF the Amnesty is extended, you can stay longer in the country until Amnesty end date.

2 - IF the borders are open again, you can exit and apply for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement in a neighboring country and on return apply for a 1-year extension of stay from that Non Imm O Visa.  Note: You can also simply return VisaExempt and apply in-country for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa at your local IO and subsequently apply for the 1-year extension at that same IO.

>> However, even if the borders would be open again it is possible that you would be confronted with quarantaine-measures both on entry and return, and possible mandatory covid-19 insurance.

 

Imo your best option would be to enquire at your local IO whether they would be willing to handle your application for the 1-year extension of stay, even with your permission to stay having expired today.  There are some IOs that would be willing to do that and will 'back-date' your application from the day of expiry.  Obviously in that case you would need to prove that you met the financial requirements during the 12 months preceding your application, as well as provide an IO-approved health-insurance policy.

That insurance requirement was the reason you did let your permission to stay expire.  But since a couple of months an affordable thai IO-approved health insurance is available.  The LMG Insurance Plan 1 policy (with a 200K deductible) only costs 6.000 THB to 11.400 THB annual premium in the age bracket of 51 to 75 years of age, and does not require an (expensive) medical to subscribe to it.

>> So imo you should enquire at your local IO if they would be willing to handle your application.

There are IOs that indicated they will not handle your application for the 1-year extension when your permission to stay expired, and in that case you should start preparing to leave Thailand before 31 July (or ultimately 7 August, when applying for the 7 extra days to allow you exiting Thailand).

[david_je]

Thank you for all your replies.

1. Maybe you're right that under the circumstances I should have extended my OA stay, which expired today. You say CW may still extend it since we're under amnesty. Has anyone here actually been able to do that after their stay expired, during this period? The problem is I'd need to pay several thousand baht even for the LMG insurance first -- and then may find CW won't do the extension.

2. If I don't do the OA extension, and the amnesty is not extended, is the 7-day extension of stay routinely granted? What are the requirements? Where can I find the form online?

 

[ubonjoe]

11 hours ago, david_je said:

1. Maybe you're right that under the circumstances I should have extended my OA stay, which expired today. You say CW may still extend it since we're under amnesty. Has anyone here actually been able to do that after their stay expired, during this period? The problem is I'd need to pay several thousand baht even for the LMG insurance first -- and then may find CW won't do the extension.

The will do it under the amnesty. In normal circumstance they will do the extension a few days late after you pay the overstay fine.

 

11 hours ago, david_je said:

2. If I don't do the OA extension, and the amnesty is not extended, is the 7-day extension of stay routinely granted? What are the requirements? Where can I find the form online?

You use the standard TM7 form to apply for it. They are done all the time when you do not qualify any extension.

[soisanuk]

20 hours ago, david_je said:

I hold a US passport. My Non-OA stay based on retirement expired today and, making use of amnesty, I did not extend so I can later get a non-O, to avoid buying bad health insurance.

My questions:

1.       If amnesty not extended, must I leave country on July 31 or Aug 1?

2.       I had planned to go abroad Aug 7. If amnesty not extended, is there some way I can stay in Thailand that one more week? I see mention here of getting a letter from US embassy requesting immigration to extend stay. Has anyone ever done that, what does that involve?

3.       I just got a new passport (renewal). I don’t need to have the now-expired Non-OA visa/extension transferred to my new passport, correct?

4.       When I return to Thailand in December, I just enter visa exempt and go apply at CW for Non-O using the 800,000 I already have in my account as Non-OA requirement, correct?

Thank you for your help.

Re Item 4 -- it is my understanding that if applying for a Non-Immigrant O Visa at Thai Immigration, you will need to show evidence that the 800k came from a source outside of Thailand.  If you are able to extend your current permission to stay, as others have mentioned, with international travel having many restrictions & borders are closed by Thailand and neighboring countries,  it is best to do so under current circumstances.

 

If they will not extend your stay and you do have to leave once the amnesty expires, based on recent news articles regarding continued restriction on entry into Thailand, it is most likely you will not be able to return until October or later.  If you are unable to extend the OA permission to stay and do not have proof the 800k came from outside of Thailand, when things do open up as to entry, you can apply for the Non-Immigrant O Visa at a Thai Embassy/Consulate and use that to enter Thailand, then after 60 days apply for the one year retirement extension thus bypassing the need to apply for the Non-O within Thailand - no proof of source of 800k is needed for the extension - only that it be on deposit for 2 months before applying.    Note -- if you return to your home country, some Thai Embassies/Consulates (e.g., in the USA), will not issue a Non-O Visa if it is for retirement, but will insist on you applying for another Non-OA Visa.

[anfh]

I may be wrong but, I have not read anywhere that suggests that the amnesty covers extensions etc.

the amnesty was set up to cover people who had come to Thailand on a visa obtained from outside Thailand, or an entry stamp. These people did not intend to stay here indefinitely, and therefore, would have left before their visa or stamp expired.

since Covid and restrictions, they could not leave. Therefore they bought in the amnesty.

Those people staying here long term on extensions etc etc did not intend to leave so where not caught here . Those people would normally extend the extension as normal, therefore the amnesty does not apply.

If you are one of those with and extension for marriage or retirement etc, then, I believe, as I have done, you should have applied for new extension as per the expriy date etc etc.F indedd, on going to IO office in Jomtiem, the only section open was the extension desk etc. 

As I say, I mey be wrong, but under all the literature I have seen, that is how I would interpret the amnesty. 

 

[Peter Denis]

11 minutes ago, anfh said:

I may be wrong but, I have not read anywhere that suggests that the amnesty covers extensions etc.

the amnesty was set up to cover people who had come to Thailand on a visa obtained from outside Thailand, or an entry stamp. These people did not intend to stay here indefinitely, and therefore, would have left before their visa or stamp expired.

since Covid and restrictions, they could not leave. Therefore they bought in the amnesty.

Those people staying here long term on extensions etc etc did not intend to leave so where not caught here . Those people would normally extend the extension as normal, therefore the amnesty does not apply.

If you are one of those with and extension for marriage or retirement etc, then, I believe, as I have done, you should have applied for new extension as per the expiry date etc etc.F indeed, on going to IO office in Jomtiem, the only section open was the extension desk etc. 

As I say, I may be wrong, but under all the literature I have seen, that is how I would interpret the amnesty.

You are largely correct and indeed those staying here on 1-year extensions, were expected to apply for their 1-year extension of stay when their permission to stay was due to expire.

But one correction > the Amnesty is also applicable for those long-stayers.

So if they decided NOT to apply for their 1-year extension when it was due, they are still covered.  Surely in the early days of the Amnesty, many long-stayers were very hesitant to visit their local IO (with curfews, roadblocks, social distancing strictly enforced, etc.).

So what about those that let their 1-year permission to stay due date slip?

And that's where there is no clarity/consistency in how different IOs treat this.

1 - Some IOs will simply handle your application for the 1-year extension of stay even if your permission to stay has expired.  In normal times they also do this, if you are a couple of days late and then you simply pay the over-stay, and they back-date your application to the expiry date of your permission to stay.

During the Amnesty there will be NO overstay-fines, so those IOs will simply handle your 1-year extension of stay when you apply during the Amnesty with no overstay-fines and back-dating from the expiry date of your permission to stay.  No problem.

2 - But there are also reports from IOs that when queried about this issue, took the stance that they would not handle your 1-year extension of stay anymore when you applied after the permission to stay date expired because they don't consider the Amnesty extension as a valid permission to stay from which you can extend your 1-year permission to stay.  Once again, no overstay-fines, but when dealing with those IOs you would be forced to exit the country once the Amnesty is over.

NOTE: However, when you did not 'use up' already your 60-day extension of stay for reason of visiting your wife/dependant child, you would still be able to apply for that 60-day extension and it will not be back-dated but will start from date of application (so it's in your interest to apply for that as late as possible, but before the Amnesty is over).  And once you have that valid non-Amnesty 60-day permission to stay stamp, you are then able to apply from that one for the 1-year extension of stay. 

[JackThompson]

52 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

NOTE: However, when you did not 'use up' already your 60-day extension of stay for reason of visiting your wife/dependant child, you would still be able to apply for that 60-day extension and it will not be back-dated but will start from date of application (so it's in your interest to apply for that as late as possible, but before the Amnesty is over).  And once you have that valid non-Amnesty 60-day permission to stay stamp, you are then able to apply from that one for the 1-year extension of stay. 

Do we have reports of this happening as you describe? 
Two possibilities:
 - 60-days back-dated to start when the last "stamped permitted-stay" ended - useless now, for many, as new permitted-stay date would be in the past.
 - 60-days starts when you apply
Then, success doing the extension?

 

I am not making a prediction - just wondering if this has been proven-successful, and if so, at what office(s)?

[Peter Denis]

19 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Do we have reports of this happening as you describe? 
Two possibilities:
 - 60-days back-dated to start when the last "stamped permitted-stay" ended - useless now, for many, as new permitted-stay date would be in the past.
 - 60-days starts when you apply
Then, success doing the extension?

 

I am not making a prediction - just wondering if this has been proven-successful, and if so, at what office(s)?

In order to get actual experience cases to determine whether IO would do 'back-dating' when applying for an extension of stay, I started a thread.  But I got only one real response based on actual experience and then the whole thread went off-topic.

So I asked again in a different thread in follow-up of one of UJ's responses.

 

 

So @ubonjoe confirmed that during the Amnesty an application for an extension other than the 1-year one, would start from application date (or might even start from envisioned end of Amnesty date).

UJ has shown time and again that he is correct in all Visa matters, so I trust his response.

 

[JackThompson]

3 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

In order to get actual experience cases to determine whether IO would do 'back-dating' when applying for an extension of stay, I started a thread.  But I got only one real response based on actual experience and then the whole thread went off-topic.

So I asked again in a different thread in follow-up of one of UJ's responses.

 

 

So @ubonjoe confirmed that during the Amnesty an application for an extension other than the 1-year one, would start from application date (or might even start from envisioned end of Amnesty date).

UJ has shown time and again that he is correct in all Visa matters, so I trust his response.

 

He provides good info on what IOs "should do," when/if they follow the law/rules as written.  What actually happens to individuals, can vary.  I won't go through a list ... but in this case, we don't even have a law/rule to point to. 

It doesn't affect me, but I hope the prediction is correct.  I just hope folks aren't betting on such predictions, as I did, to my detrement.

[Peter Denis]

10 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

He provides good info on what IOs "should do," when/if they follow the law/rules as written.  What actually happens to individuals, can vary.  I won't go through a list ... but in this case, we don't even have a law/rule to point to. 

It doesn't affect me, but I hope the prediction is correct.  I just hope folks aren't betting on such predictions, as I did, to my detrement.

That's why I started the thread with the title > Any reports on back-dating of your 1-year permission to stay during the Amnesty?Unfortunately, it only generated 1 post based on actual experience, and then went completely off-topic...

If the Amnesty is not extended, the reports will start coming in just before the envisioned end-date 31 July.  But of course that will be too late to prepare for a Plan B when taking by surprise on the stance of your local IO.

[Olmate]

27 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

That's why I started the thread with the title > Any reports on back-dating of your 1-year permission to stay during the Amnesty?Unfortunately, it only generated 1 post based on actual experience, and then went completely off-topic...

If the Amnesty is not extended, the reports will start coming in just before the envisioned end-date 31 July.  But of course that will be too late to prepare for a Plan B when taking by surprise on the stance of your local IO.

In the covid update from this aarvo, on Thai Tele, the English version spokesperson mentioned the amnesty update was under consideration now with advice forthcoming. 

[david_je]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The will do it under the amnesty. In normal circumstance they will do the extension a few days late after you pay the overstay fine.

 

You use the standard TM7 form to apply for it. They are done all the time when you do not qualify any extension.

Have you seen reports here of anyone whose OA stay expired but they still got their extension at CW during the amnesty? If I do this, I would need to buy the qualifying health insurance first. Do I get the health insurance backdated to start the day my OA stay expired? I don't know if insurance companies even do this.

About the T7  -- is extension granted for any stated reason whatsover, or do you have to have an "important" (medical, etc.) reason? If amnesty not extended, can I apply before July 31 (giving me extension till Aug 7, the date I plan to travel abroad), so as to avoid huge crowds on July 31?

Thank you.

 

[Marknreston]

On 7/2/2020 at 1:44 AM, DrJack54 said:

OP, I can understand your wish to change to non O and get rid of the non O-A and it's ridiculous Thai insurance

However at this time I would do one more year with the extension to the O-A.

I realize it has expired just now, however being under amnesty you most likely still can obtain extension. There is cheap throw away insurance that you can obtain.

 

Please direct me to "cheap throw away insurance" that satisfies Thai immigration.  I understand some have been denied entry based on having insurance from companies NOT listed as authorized on the long stay insurance web site referred to by Thai Immigration.  I am out of the country and will need to reapply for a new retirement visa once thailand opens up to my category.  Last year I paid 20K for insurance and if possible I would like to reduce this amount.  But I am leery of buying insurance from any company not listed.  

[Peter Denis]

19 minutes ago, Marknreston said:

Please direct me to "cheap throw away insurance" that satisfies Thai immigration.  I understand some have been denied entry based on having insurance from companies NOT listed as authorized on the long stay insurance web site referred to by Thai Immigration.  I am out of the country and will need to reapply for a new retirement visa once thailand opens up to my category.  Last year I paid 20K for insurance and if possible I would like to reduce this amount.  But I am leery of buying insurance from any company not listed.  

When you do not have the thai IO-approved insurance yet, the cheapest option is the LMG Insurance Plan 1 (with 200K deductible) which charges an annual premium of 6.000 to 11.400 THB in the age bracket of 51 to 75.  That insurance also does not need an (expensive) medical to subscribe to it.

PM me or post a reply when you need additional information (some tips/caveats re insurance start date and how/where to subscribe to it).