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Pompeo calls Hong Kong law an 'affront to all nations'

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4 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

Right on target.  The haters don’t realize they play right into CCP’s hands.  And instead of holding CCP to task on HK, on Mekong depletion, on South China Sea and Spratly Islands, and the Belt & Road financial trap—it always degenerates to their despise of the current administration.  Look at the big picture, folks.

I see the old safe spot (haters) when not agreeing with trump .to me (I do hate trump)the United States is in full retreat on all fronts foreign and domestic idealisticy and morally under trump trump has done squat about the spratlys or the South China Sea look at the facts and truth take the blinders off don’t be a mark

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HK is lost, won't be long before commies take over of all existing laws and truly annex it to CCP. Obviously if you're from the west and have some dealings there, get out now. It's doomed.

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4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Measures will come, The European Union has said there will be serious consequences

Hmm, I'd like to think even if the EU would actually do something along with the rest of the Western world, although I think those 'serious consequences' will be a very severe 'telling off' it'll amount to nothing.

 

Sanctions rarely manage to achieve anything. Cuba, Iran, North Korea the list goes on.

 

In point of fact the only two places in my lifetime where external sanctions actually did ultimately make a difference were South Africa & Rhodesia, and that was coupled with  internal majority dissent.

 

I've said before all we can do is give Hong Kongers an out. The UK has made a great gesture to finally give BNO's full residency, several bipartisan bills are current in the US congress to give people special refugee status, and Taiwan is essentially saying, show up and you get a RoC passport.

 

It's an awful place we find ourselves in, but we all let China get away with it and now they are probably too powerful to reign in!

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Morch said:

 

You're "outraged". Alright. Now, about that recent Chinese move regarding HK...?

Okay, about China's move regarding Hong Kong.
 

Let's look at the overall picture.  Last year, for months and months, Hong Kong was brought to a standstill by the demonsrtrations, and a load of people threw petrol bombs and bricks at the Hong Kong police. Anybody can actually criticise Beijing for allowing the riots to continue over such a long period. As in, Beijing should have clamped down on the violence in a bigger way, and sooner.

Notice the hypocrisy of some of the anti-China brigade.  As in, in the USA, BLM do mass protests, and when bricks and petrol bombs are thrown, well, people demand serious action from the US government. But in Hong Kong, rioters throw bricks and petrol bombs, and when riot police arrest a few of them, well, that's called 'police brutality' .  How many bricks and petrol bombs have been thrown in America ?  How many bricks and petrol bombs did Hong Kong police have thrown at them ? A lot more than in the USA.

So, Beijing clamping down on the rioters/demonstraters is not actually surprising. By the way, the Hong Kong riots have been  far less energetic in 2020, compared to 2019. Why is that ? Well, yes, the Covid bug has caused a lot of Hong Kong people to not take part. But there is speculation regarding another reason. The Hong Kong guys you see wearing metal helmets, and throwing bricks and petrol bombs, they're (supposedly) mainly a bunch of 'paid for' rioters. And basically, their wages have not been paid in the last few months. That's why they've mainly stopped their rioting.

Let's look at the overall picture. Hong Kong's economy is basically dependent on mainland China. Surely, we all know this ?  As in, goods are made in China, Hong Kong companies import/buy those goods and then re-export/re-route the goods to America and the rest of the world. Hong Kong also imports goods from the rest of the world, and re-exports/re-routes the goods to mainland China. It's best for Hong Kong that they simply stop these riots and demonstrations. And that's bearing in mind that the riots where mainly done by the 'paid for' rioters.

Edited by tonbridgebrit
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9 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

Right on target.  The haters don’t realize they play right into CCP’s hands.  And instead of holding CCP to task on HK, on Mekong depletion, on South China Sea and Spratly Islands, and the Belt & Road financial trap—it always degenerates to their despise of the current administration.  Look at the big picture, folks.


You're raising the issue of the Spratly Islands. Well, the case of the Paracel Islands is the same.

Now, you guys do realise what's actually happening ? Okay, it's this. China claims ownership of the islands, and Vietnam also claims ownership, and Philipinnes also claims some of the islands.

Now, the important thing is, where does Washington (as in, the US government) stand on this ?  Washington is staying neutral on this. As in, the US government is NOT saying "we're supporting Vietnam's claim on the islands" .  And the US government is also NOT saying "we back China's claim, on ownership of the islands" .
Why is the USA staying neutral with regards to who owns the islands ? It's because, America knows that China's claims are just as reasonable as Vietnam's claims. And that's bearing in mind that islands like the Falklands and Diego Garcia are owned by nations that are very far away from the islands.

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13 hours ago, rvaviator said:

Where is the oil in Tibet ?

Precisely.

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        The sooner the WORLD gets out of China the better, might be expensive  for some, but better without Chinese anywhere in the world. if America cut all trade with China, the rest might follow.

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5 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

And that's bearing in mind that the riots where mainly done by the 'paid for' rioters.

     Rubbish, if you were from Hong Kong, you would feel the same way they do, They were granted a 50 year period as a seperate state, The miserable lying two faced Chinese, have broken that agreement, as with all their other commitments regyardless from world opinions. The rest of the world could crash the Chinese economy, and send them back to the dark ages, as they deserve.

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@tonbridgebrit

 

Your reply could be summed thus:

 

1 deflection attempt of a post.

3 unsupported allegations protestors were paid.

6(!) "petrol bombs and bricks" mentions, a ratio bearing little on actual level of violence.

4 irrelevant repeats regarding "goods".

 

You're overdoing it.

 

None of this directly relates to the implications and significance of the PRC's move.

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5 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:


You're raising the issue of the Spratly Islands. Well, the case of the Paracel Islands is the same.

Now, you guys do realise what's actually happening ? Okay, it's this. China claims ownership of the islands, and Vietnam also claims ownership, and Philipinnes also claims some of the islands.

Now, the important thing is, where does Washington (as in, the US government) stand on this ?  Washington is staying neutral on this. As in, the US government is NOT saying "we're supporting Vietnam's claim on the islands" .  And the US government is also NOT saying "we back China's claim, on ownership of the islands" .
Why is the USA staying neutral with regards to who owns the islands ? It's because, America knows that China's claims are just as reasonable as Vietnam's claims. And that's bearing in mind that islands like the Falklands and Diego Garcia are owned by nations that are very far away from the islands.

 

The "important thing", apparently, is to quickly deflect the discussion from the PRC to anything else, such as views on USA policy back up by nothing whatsoever.

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Genuine question - and Whilst I agree China needs to be seriously kept in check - most countries have similar laws don’t they? If you try and do any of the things listed in the “new” law against the USA for example, you’ll be arrested all the same won’t you?

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15 hours ago, DB58 said:

So the USA is in the wrong for revoking favored trade status and denouncing China? 

Did you understand what I wrote?

 

It was nothing to do with revoking favored trade status at all? What I wrote was this.

 

22 hours ago, billd766 said:

Not really. Nowadays the USA seems ready to poke its collective nose into every other countries business without asking or thinking through any responses, before offering a response.

 

IMHO under Trump and Pompeo the USA is losing friends and allies world wide and it seems to be driving itself into isolation from the rest of the world.

 

After Trump departs the scene, it will take the new (and hopefully responsible) years and decades if ever, from the damage Trump has brought upon the USA.

 

I tried to explain that the USA under Trump and his administration run by Pompeo still think that they are the leaders of the world and that every country must jump at their command,

 

Several decades ago that may have been correct but certainly since Trump has been POTUS the USA's influence has been waning quicker than an ice cream left in the hot sun.

 

He has lost allies the he needs, he has lost friendly countries who could help the USA in times of need who could have allowed overflights and bases that the USAF used to use.

 

The USA is now attempting to seize  4 Iranian oil tankers bound for Venezuela because they are breaking sanctions that the USA deem s illegal. Neither Iran nor Venezuela are anything to do with the USA but the USA wants to have Venezuela's oil reserves for the USA ONLY. 

 

The USA and to a lesser extent, the UK have been interfering in Iran since WW2 and before, and for what reason? It is not, nor has it ever been a part of the USA, nor has Venezuela. 

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1 minute ago, ncc1701d said:

Genuine question - and Whilst I agree China needs to be seriously kept in check - most countries have similar laws don’t they? If you try and do any of the things listed in the “new” law against the USA for example, you’ll be arrested all the same won’t you?

 

I don't know about "most countries". Quite a lot of dodgy regimes out there. But if referring to Western or not obviously dictatorial regimes, then no. Such extensive rules, including suppression of criticism, dissent and right to protest aren't the norm. Add to that the PRC's heavy-handed record of dealing with "violators" to make the picture complete.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I don't know about "most countries". Quite a lot of dodgy regimes out there. But if referring to Western or not obviously dictatorial regimes, then no. Such extensive rules, including suppression of criticism, dissent and right to protest aren't the norm. Add to that the PRC's heavy-handed record of dealing with "violators" to make the picture complete.

 

 

From Wikipedia, The law simply states: It states that Hong Kong "shall enact laws on its own to prohibit any act of treason, secession, sedition, subversion against the Central People's Government, or theft of state secrets, to prohibit foreign political organizations or bodies from conducting political activities in the Region, and to prohibit political organizations or bodies of the Region from establishing ties with foreign political organizations or bodies."

 

so if a state within the USA or Australia wanted to do the same or there were protests to do the same - they wouldn’t be breaking the law?

 

I’m not for one second saying that how this law is implemented is not going to be abused. But the catalyst for the recent protest movement kicked off because of China wanting an extradition treaty for someone that had committed murder and fled. Even the USA has an extradition treaty with China! Now because of the frankly ridiculous protests China has upped the ante to this all encompassing law.

 

i live and work in Hong Kong for the last 29 years. I hate to see what has been happening. But at the local level, the protestors are delusional if they think they are somehow going to stop China doing whatever it wants. On an international level, it seems a weird way to go about keeping China from abusing their power internationally. 

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