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Hong Kong man accused of terrorism in first use of new China security law

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10 hours ago, Morch said:

 

They were not free to protest. They protested anyway. And, indeed, it was peaceful to begin with. As for the "I doubt that this new law would have been considered necessary" bit, you are aware how and why these protests started, right?

 

i read that the new law was required under the handover agreement.

haven't read the text of the agreement, so unsure how it's worded.  is hong kong government required to enact the law, and if they don't, is the national government permitted/required to do it?

 

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3 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

China will stop at nothing to control all of SE Asia.  If the West cannot stop them—maybe the people can.  Boycott all Made in China products.

What did you type that on?

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46 minutes ago, NightSky said:

Even if it was in the name of freedom and to show the oppressors that he does not fear them?

 

I would have to disagree.

 

The Chinese seem quite free to me. Chinese tourist are all over the place because so many of them have been lifted out of poverty and can now afford to travel overseas.

 

When I visited China a couple of years ago, I was very impressed with the good organization of the cities and the friendliness of the people in the places I visited, such as Shantou, Xian, Hangzhou, and the Yellow Mountains.

 

I didn't employ any guide and was able to travel around easily and economically on comfortable electric public buses which were more advanced than the buses I sometimes use in Australia.

 

The Yellow Mountains in Huangshan were a delight. The walking tracks through the forests and mountains were very well maintained with concrete steps along the steep parts, and people employed to clear up the litter from the rubbish bins along the tracks.

 

However, it's true that the people in China are not free to insult their President, a bit like people in Thailand are not free to insult the King.

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3 hours ago, samran said:

Why don’t you try that out now in China, and let us know how it goes. If we don’t hear back from you, we will understand. 

I've already done so. When I was in Hangzhou a couple of years ago I paid for a day's tour in a local tourist bus, to visit the surrounding temples. There were extra charges that applied when visiting certain areas or certain parts of the temple complexes.

 

Towards the end of the trip, during a conversation with a Chinese tourist, while walking around a temple complex, I found out that I had been charged for a visit to a location I had never made.

 

At the end of the journey, at the bus station, I protested to the manager that I had been overcharged by the female guide on the bus. No problem. The money was refunded with great apologies. 😉

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17 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

The Chinese seem quite free to me. Chinese tourist are all over the place because so many of them have been lifted out of poverty and can now afford to travel overseas.

 

When I visited China a couple of years ago, I was very impressed with the good organization of the cities and the friendliness of the people in the places I visited, such as Shantou, Xian, Hangzhou, and the Yellow Mountains.

 

I didn't employ any guide and was able to travel around easily and economically on comfortable electric public buses which were more advanced than the buses I sometimes use in Australia.

 

The Yellow Mountains in Huangshan were a delight. The walking tracks through the forests and mountains were very well maintained with concrete steps along the steep parts, and people employed to clear up the litter from the rubbish bins along the tracks.

 

However, it's true that the people in China are not free to insult their President, a bit like people in Thailand are not free to insult the King.

 

visiting any place as a tourist doesn't always provide a clear understanding of the political or social system.  china's national surveillance system is massive, but almost invisible to normal humans. 

 

you don't normally see stormtroopers marching through the streets, there aren't riot police stationed on every corner, and you don't often get stopped for "papers, please."  it's an all-encompassing system that collects every conceivable bit of mundane information on citizens, where everything is linked to the national identity card.  cameras are omnipresent, linked to databases with highly-advanced facial recognition and number-plate recognition.  they track your phone by gps, monitor your conversations, and track your social media postings.  they know what websites you visit, they know what you've purchased by alipay, they know what pharmacy you've been to and what you were prescribed.

 

it's all in the background.  citizens rarely have encounters with the police, other than for routine paperwork.  think DMV on steroids.  live your live, keep your head down, and you'll have no problems.

 

as a tourist you'll be herded through the scenic and historic sights, stay in foreigner-approved hotels, travel on most public transport.  problems start when you want/need to do things that require a chinese ID card.  things like staying at the many hotels that are not approved for foreigners, buying a sim card, using bus/train ticket machines, using internet at an internet cafe, exchanging/sending money, and buying gasoline (if you manage to procure a drivers license).

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13 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Why would any foreigners who are in Hong Kong as tourists want to violate the National Security Law by committing “act of treason, secession, sedition, or subversion against China, including the theft of state secrets and political activities of foreign organizations”. That is so fatuous. 
 

 

Ask the 2 Canadians that are currently rotting up in jail in China.

They had done nothing wrong until the Chinese needed a couple of bargain chips.

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7 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

as a tourist you'll be herded through the scenic and historic sights, stay in foreigner-approved hotels, travel on most public transport. 

I did not experience any herding when I was a tourist a couple of years ago. I walked around every location I stayed at, through the byways and local parks, taking photos of anything that grabbed my interest and attention, and poking my nose here and there. I booked my own hotels through the internet, using my own personal laptop which I always include in my suitcase or backpack whenever I travel overseas.

 

I traveled by local buses or taxis, or simply walking. One of the hotels I stayed at, in Huangshan near the Yellow Mountains, was a small but very nice family run business. The owner was very friendly and helpful and drove me around to many of near-by sites that I wanted to visit.

 

However, one thing that annoyed me was the discovery that I couldn't access Google on my laptop. But that was a short-lived problem. I found someone who was able to install VPN (Virtual Private Network) on my laptop.

 

it's an all-encompassing system that collects every conceivable bit of mundane information on citizens, where everything is linked to the national identity card.  cameras are omnipresent, linked to databases with highly-advanced facial recognition and number-plate recognition.  they track your phone by gps, monitor your conversations, and track your social media postings.  they know what websites you visit, they know what you've purchased by alipay, they know what pharmacy you've been to and what you were prescribed.

 

That's the sort of thing that also occurs in Australia, through Google and Facebook and other means, although I accept that the Chinese might be doing that more efficiently and comprehensively, as they do with most things. 😉

 

For example, if I do a search on the internet in Australia, say for reviews of a particular model of camera, or the best price, the next time I visit the ThaiVisa site I'll see ads popping up frequently for the same and similar models of camera.

 

A degree of surveillance and monitoring are required to reduce crime and corruption and keep the public safe. If you are not misbehaving, why should you worry?

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13 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

True. In a sense, they've got the best of both worlds; an efficient capitalist system, plus the political power to do what's best for the whole country instead of giving in to the concerns of minority groups, which we tend to do in the West.

But in the west we don't dispose of those who disagree, do we..?

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6 minutes ago, transam said:

But in the west we don't dispose of those who disagree, do we..?

 

6 minutes ago, transam said:

But in the west we don't dispose of those who disagree, do we..?

Islamic Nutters seem to.

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21 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

They are free to protest peacefully. Knocking people down and causing injury, whether they are police or not, is never allowed.

Agreed, but should be charged with maybe, reckless driving, reckless endangerment? Rather than terrorism? So perhaps more to this story than we are allowed to see coming from China? 

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58 minutes ago, transam said:

But in the west we don't dispose of those who disagree, do we..?

We did in the past. We even burnt people alive and pulled their limbs apart if they disagreed with the religious/government views.

 

The Chinese government currently seems very much against the spread of Islam, and I think the treatment of a certain number of Uighurs in certain camps might be unfair and reprehensible, but I don't have all the facts. One shouldn't automatically trust the news reports.

 

In any case, Islam is a major problem in many countries, and I'm not surprised that China is addressing the issue before it becomes a major problem in their own country.

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3 minutes ago, DB58 said:

Agreed, but should be charged with maybe, reckless driving, reckless endangerment? Rather than terrorism? So perhaps more to this story than we are allowed to see coming from China? 

One should always address the cause of a misdemeanor. Was the driving reckless because the person was drunk, or was he just an unskilled driver without a license, or was it a deliberate attempt to cause mayhem for the purpose of a political protest which could endanger people's lives.

 

I suspect all these factors with be considered during the trial.

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On 7/4/2020 at 11:53 AM, TacoKhun said:

I have been to HK and what i saw most people work all day and spent rest in tiny flats watching youtube, whats the big difference to them if China becomes a real government?

In Hong Kong you can watch what you like on Youtube !

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13 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

I've already done so. When I was in Hangzhou a couple of years ago I paid for a day's tour in a local tourist bus, to visit the surrounding temples. There were extra charges that applied when visiting certain areas or certain parts of the temple complexes.

 

Towards the end of the trip, during a conversation with a Chinese tourist, while walking around a temple complex, I found out that I had been charged for a visit to a location I had never made.

 

At the end of the journey, at the bus station, I protested to the manager that I had been overcharged by the female guide on the bus. No problem. The money was refunded with great apologies. 😉

 

More nonsense. Your unverifiable tourist anecdotes are irrelevant. And obviously, there's a wee difference between personally protesting about overcharging, and mass protests about political issues. Try harder.

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