UK Pension.

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, izod10 said:

...and yes,so what?  Only UK residence    any more of any relevance?

 

  Funny how the frozen pit dwellers get together at a pension question that initially has nothing to do with frozen pensions and instantly dire warnings pour forth "doomsday cometh".

  Nothing like ever happened,or will,as the saying goes "a problem shared ,is a problem halved"  (not solved)Certainly their pensions have halved after xyz  number of years here

 

  One frozen pensioner states he could not sleep at nights if blah blah blah.  I certainly could not with a red hot poker sticking out of my a.rse either,the relevance of which to a frozen pensioner is this,it would give me nightmares voluntarily giving up one hell of chunk of my pension,for no good reason

calm yourself dear.

[dasboot]

Interesting mix of opinions.

Edited July 11, 2020 by dasboot
Revised.

[sungod]

7 minutes ago, dasboot said:

Interesting mix of opinions.

Bet you wish you never asked ????

[dasboot]

13 hours ago, Dave0206 said:

You say you have not yet claimed perhaps since you say you had some long holidays since 2009 it would be worthwhile to check online you’re pension forecast if you have gaps in you,re ni contributions you can pay the missing years.

remember 1 extra years payments can give you an extra £5 per week 

I am short and asked if I can pay class 2 contributions (£156) per year instead of £795. It was accepted but even @£795 an extra £5 x how many years missing adds up after 3 years pension you have voluntary contributions payments returned by higher pension .

only downside if die before 3 years you lose out but it’s a risk hee hee 

2 Nd point I may be wrong but when you say £3 increase it is actually cost of living or 2% whichever is higher meaning 2% of £175 is £3.50 next year 2%of £178.50 is £3.57 etc ect

I will definitely look into this.

[dasboot]

7 minutes ago, sungod said:

Bet you wish you never asked ????

I needed people's views opinions and knowledge as when I looked at the form asking where I had lived and for how long etc etc, I started fearing the worst for my payments.

I really don't want to give up anything, the old thing I worked nearly all my life, payed nearly all my life, now I would like to get some back to enjoy my further retirement.

This forum in my opinion is still the go to place for advice and help.

[sungod]

Fair one, its a shame it deteriorated into ' is it OK to break the law for 3 quid a week, if I do whats the punishment if I'm caught?'

 

Me personally, if I was moving here and budgeting on a 3 quid a week rise for the rest of my life, I'd err on caution and probably stay at home.

[hotandsticky]

5 minutes ago, sungod said:

Fair one, its a shame it deteriorated into ' is it OK to break the law for 3 quid a week, if I do whats the punishment if I'm caught?'

 

Me personally, if I was moving here and budgeting on a 3 quid a week rise for the rest of my life, I'd err on caution and probably stay at home.

 

 

Now go away and work out what the benefit would have been/will be over 10 years. 

 

 

Report back on whether you consider that figure to be derisory......................... and worth staying home for.

[NoshowJones]

10 minutes ago, sungod said:

Fair one, its a shame it deteriorated into ' is it OK to break the law for 3 quid a week, if I do whats the punishment if I'm caught?'

 

Me personally, if I was moving here and budgeting on a 3 quid a week rise for the rest of my life, I'd err on caution and probably stay at home.

There is no punishment if you are caught, but that only applies to the state pension, not to any pension credits.

[prakhonchai nick]

In previous years a Thai widow was entitled to bereavement benefits, and it would then come to light that the pensioner was receiving full pension based on living in the UK, whilst his wife had never been anywhere near the uk. That caused the widows some problems.

 

Nowadays there are no bereavement benefits for widows, so it boils down to honesty when you claim and where you say you live

 

Surely however, Thai Visa should not be publishing replies from those that advocate commiting fraud!!!

[sungod]

32 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Now go away and work out what the benefit would have been/will be over 10 years. 

 

 

Report back on whether you consider that figure to be derisory......................... and worth staying home for.

Cant be bothered, perhaps you can do it and 'report' back to me.

 

Not enough to bet the rest of my life on for sure, but could be a good few nights out on the sauce I guess.

 

 

[izod10]

17 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

In previous years a Thai widow was entitled to bereavement benefits, and it would then come to light that the pensioner was receiving full pension based on living in the UK, whilst his wife had never been anywhere near the uk. That caused the widows some problems.

 

Nowadays there are no bereavement benefits for widows, so it boils down to honesty when you claim and where you say you live

 

Surely however, Thai Visa should not be publishing replies from those that advocate commiting fraud!!!

Now DWP website states" pensioner cannot be accused of fraud of his own pension"

 

Hang around a bit,another soothsayer will be along soon,but he must have a few fingers missing , once he knew two,then it was three  (sorry two fingers missing) then down to one who had been "done"

 But being "done" does not include state pension,but includes pension credit/housing benefit/sickness benefit/unemployment benefit,jobseekers allowance and so on

[hotandsticky]

9 minutes ago, izod10 said:

Now DWP website states" pensioner cannot be accused of fraud of his own pension"

 

Hang around a bit,another soothsayer will be along soon,but he must have a few fingers missing , once he knew two,then it was three  (sorry two fingers missing) then down to one who had been "done"

 But being "done" does not include state pension,but includes pension credit/housing benefit/sickness benefit/unemployment benefit,jobseekers allowance and so on

 

 

A link to that particular section of the DWP would be useful to deal with naysayers in the future.

[izod10]

2 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

A link to that particular section of the DWP would be useful to deal with naysayers in the future.

All needs to be done is look up website  DWP penalties,then what is sanctionable (punishable) and the ones non-sanctionable (non-punishable)   states nothing can be stopped/adjusted/suspended (PoL excepted)    bit busy right now to plough through DWP website

[brianthainess]

If you don't tell them you are overseas then, they might do a home visit to your UK address ( Pre covid ) that is what happened to my friend, be warned they can come but you will be told by appointment.

[hotandsticky]

5 minutes ago, izod10 said:

All needs to be done is look up website  DWP penalties,then what is sanctionable (punishable) and the ones non-sanctionable (non-punishable)   states nothing can be stopped/adjusted/suspended (PoL excepted)    bit busy right now to plough through DWP website

 

Found this which is at least partly applicable... (I would like to find the wording that someone cannot commit fraud on their own pension)..

 

 

Benefits that cannot be reduced or stopped

The following benefits cannot be reduced or stopped if you commit benefit fraud:

• Attendance Allowance
• Bereavement Support Payment
• Child Benefit
• Child Tax Credit
• Christmas Bonus
• Disability Living Allowance
• Graduated Retirement Benefit
• Guardian’s Allowance
• Industrial Injuries Constant Attendance Allowance (where a Disablement Pension is payable)
• Industrial Injuries Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance (where a Disablement Pension is payable)
• Personal Independence Payment
• State Pension
• Social Fund Payments
• War Pension Constant Attendance Allowance
• War Pension Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance
• War Pension Mobility Supplement

 

https://www.gov.uk/benefit-fraud

 

[bert bloggs]

11 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Dunno ask the TV mafia here there on the scene making out their clever.

No you do not need a proof of life if you have a UK address,by the way i posted a long time ago on the other pensions thread that on reading all this that i checked to see if there were any pensioners that had been prosecuted ,sorry but i could not find even one ,dont know why ,but i was interested after reading all the posts ,also i did know a guy who came out here living on the social and staying months on end ,someone grassed him up ,well i do know he was not prosecuted ,but he did lose some of his benifits after an interview . just my little contribution .????

[bert bloggs]

32 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

If you don't tell them you are overseas then, they might do a home visit to your UK address ( Pre covid ) that is what happened to my friend, be warned they can come but you will be told by appointment.

why in Gods name would the pension service ever want to do a home visit to one of the millions of people on the state pension? that is unless he was already under investigation.?

[hotandsticky]

6 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

No you do not need a proof of life if you have a UK address,by the way i posted a long time ago on the other pensions thread that on reading all this that i checked to see if there were any pensioners that had been prosecuted ,sorry but i could not find even one ,dont know why ,but i was interested after reading all the posts ,also i did know a guy who came out here living on the social and staying months on end ,someone grassed him up ,well i do know he was not prosecuted ,but he did lose some of his benifits after an interview . just my little contribution .????

 

 

I don't think that is correct - unless it is a recent change.

 

 

A friend moved to Thailand and didn't advise the change; a life certificate was sent to the UK address which was his son's house. Unfortunately, his son had moved house and nobody thought to advise DWP. The pension was stopped but immediately reinstated when he called DWP - frozen since because he came clean and said that he had just moved to Thailand.

[prakhonchai nick]

If we we cannot be prosecuted for fraud of our own pensions, and benefits etc cannot be stopped if we do commit benefit fraud perhaps we should all be claiming child benefit and child tax credits (assuming we have children of course)................and the Christmas bonus too.even though we are not eligible because we live here in Thailand.????????

Edited July 11, 2020 by prakhonchai nick

[Madgee]

Common excuses for committing fraud concerning annual pension rises whilst living in Thailand:  

 

Pleading total ignorance (I didn't know I had to tell the UK Gov. I'm living in Thailand)

I don't care what the rules are, I've worked to pay for my pension all my life. (agree but rules are rules)

Just because I live in Thailand, it's not fair! (I agree it's not fair)

They can't deduct the over-payments even if they do find out. (correct ... but)

 

It's still fraud.

My neighbour (UK non-resident citizen) got discovered when he changed UK addresses. Doctors surgeries automatically transfer medical notes to the local addressee surgery who contact you for a verification of address and request a visit to the surgery. If you fail to reply the local Gov. registry is informed and it goes on from there. Sometimes they do discover fraud! 

End result: 

They tried to contact him through various channels asking for life verification, stating that his pension would be stopped until they received such verification my mail or by phone contact. (as far they knew, he could be deceased)

He was asked to pay back the over-payments by agreeing to a minimal deduction from his state pension. He refused pleading poverty. No further action was taken except his pension was now 'frozen' at the current rate in time. This was about two years ago.

 

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/prosecuting-welfare-and-health-fraud-cases

 

• The recoverable overpayment as decided by the decision maker (including Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit and tax credits) is £5,000 or more; 

• False identities or other personal details have been used; 

• False or forged documents have been used; 

• Official documents have been altered or falsified; 

• The person concerned occupied a position of trust; 

• The person concerned assisted or encouraged others to commit offences; 

• There is evidence of premeditation or organised fraud; 

• The person concerned has previously been convicted of benefit fraud or received a penalty for benefit fraud; 
   
•  The offer of an administrative penalty or caution is not accepted.

 

Up to the individual and their conscience.  

 

Please do not call me A LIAR .... @10dozi ... ????

 

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, prakhonchai nick said:

If we we cannot be prosecuted for fraud of our own pensions, and benefits etc cannot be stopped if we do commit benefit fraud perhaps we should all be claiming child benefit and child tax credits (assuming we have children of course)................and the Christmas bonus too.even though we are not eligible because we live here in Thailand.????????

 

 

 

I wasn't aware that DWP had ever paid a "Christmas Bonus" ?  ????

[johng]

16 minutes ago, Madgee said:

It's still fraud.

It's fraud that they take your money for years and then try to renege on paying out..should not mater where you live..in fact being overseas would be a benefit to the government. 

Its also fraud when they say the retirement age is 65 (when I started working and paying) now expect me to work till 75 !!!  what a fraud ????

[Chivas]

The way I'd look at is if you return to the UK each year to visit family and friends then you're not living in Thailand period

Keep on your GPs register which is easy with patient access (everyone really should be signed up for that but over 80% are not apparently)

Up to the individual at the end of the day

[metisdead]

A grammar police troll post and a reply has been removed. 

[prakhonchai nick]

2 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

 

I wasn't aware that DWP had ever paid a "Christmas Bonus" ?  ????

I received it once some 7/8 years ago, and from memory I think  it was part of my 4 weekly pension. Regardless, it would appear that it can be frudulently claimed

[prakhonchai nick]

2 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

 

I wasn't aware that DWP had ever paid a "Christmas Bonus" ?  ????

 

Department of Work and Pensions Christmas Bonus

 

It should be referenced 'DWP XB' – shorthand for Department of Work and Pensions Christmas Bonus.

[prakhonchai nick]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/penalties-for-social-security-fraud-and-error/penalties-policy-in-respect-of-social-security-fraud-and-error

 

State pensions are included in the above, and from a quick read, I see nothing to suggest that fraud in claiming state pension is overlooked.

[Surasak]

23 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

You are not sent life forms if in the UK, the bell rings when you die and pension is stopped automatically. If abroad they do not know when you die, hence the life forms. That's how it used to be anyway.

I didn't mention 'Life Forms'? If you use a UK address when claiming your pension, ALL correspondence will be sent to that that address. If this takes a two week turn around for your family to send to you in Thailand, and you then return them to your family to post on, the length of time will start bells ringing. I do believe that is clear?

?

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, Surasak said:

I didn't mention 'Life Forms'? If you use a UK address when claiming your pension, ALL correspondence will be sent to that that address. If this takes a two week turn around for your family to send to you in Thailand, and you then return them to your family to post on, the length of time will start bells ringing. I do believe that is clear?

?

They don't send 'forms' to you if you live in the UK (beyond the initial claim form).

There is no correspondence or ongoing interaction between the DWP and UK based pensioners.

 

The DWP admits it doesn't have a current address for 40% of UK pension claimants, as it's not required.

Am I clear enough for you?

Edited July 11, 2020 by BritManToo

[Surasak]

23 hours ago, crazykopite said:

I don’t cheat the system but I can tell you that I don’t receive any mail from DWP the only mail I get is from HMRC as I am clobbered for U.K. Tax due to having 3 different pensions and although I have a HMRC app they insist on sending out my P60 out by mail each year

I don't remember stating anyone cheats the system. I got the Impression the OP was about to apply for his state pension while living in Thailand.

I also didn't mention the HMRC, to my knowledge they don't deal with pension applications. Be so kind as to why you think I suggesteed they do?