Questions on retirement visa.

[projectorguy1]

Greetings all - My name is Jerry. I am an engineer working in the southern US. This is a VERY helpful forum. Likely will be my "go-to" forum from now on! 

I am planning on retiring at the end of next year - VERY interested in a long stay (6 months to a year or two) in Thailand, but am thinking of spending a few months in Europe before we travel there. Some of the specifics of the O-A visa are confusing the heck out of me!

The following are some questions I am having difficulty finding consistent info on. I realize it is at least partly because the Thailand Visa rules have been changing quite a bit in recent years.

 

1 - Can a full year O-A visa be obtained before we travel, or can you only apply for the 90 day one in advance? Would be nice to avoid the Thai bank account issues for the first month or two, until we are settled in. I am worried about getting into problems opening a Thai bank account in time to get the 1 year extension.

2- If we can apply and get the 1 year O-A before we leave, how long is it valid for before we travel to Thailand?

3- If we decide to apply for the visa (90 or 365 day) after we leave the states, do we need a permanent address in the states? We are planning on selling our house before we leave, and putting the money in a separate account for purchasing another house later on. Don't want to deal with renting, and the market in our area is pretty hot right now.

4- From what I have read, I need to have sufficient funds 800K or 65K/month for each of us, or 1600K or 130K/month total (in two separate accounts) is this correct? I guess "two can live as cheaply as one" has no meaning in Thailand. Nearly 4200 USD a month will be more than we spend now while we are working in the US! Conversely, I am not excited about having to have 50,000+ USD sitting in a Thai bank earning very little interest for the duration of our stay.

5- Is the 65000 THB option only for the second year? I cannot see another way to have the money in a Thai bank for 12 months in the first year...

6- Is the 65000 THB option gross or net? My meager pension will be over that much gross, but not net. I am 57, and will not be getting SS for 5 years. By the time we retire, we should have 150-200K USD in our savings/liquid, and quite a bit in our 401K, although we don't want to start withdrawing that for a few years, as we shouldn't need it-planning to live off savings/pension.

 

I was on a Trip Advisor forum, and ubonjoe was highly recommended for Visa advice. And I found him here!

Edited July 10, 2020 by projectorguy1
Added last line

[projectorguy1]

I am surprised no one has an answer for any of these questions...I sincerely hope I haven't broken decorum here by asking 100 questions right out of the gate - if so, I am sincerely sorry.

[ubonjoe]

1/2. When the OA visa it is valid for entry for one year from the date of issue. When you enter the country you will get a one year entry unless your insurance expires before the one year. If less than a year remaining they will stamp you into the country to that day.

You can get almost 2 years of total stay from a OA visa by getting a new one year entry just before it expires.

3. You can only apply for the OA visa while your are in the states.

You do not have to have a permanent residence to apply for it.

4/5. If married both of you do not need to get OA visa. One can apply for it and the other one can get a non-o visa that will be valid for 3 months and will allow a 90 day entry and then they can apply for  a extension that will issued to the day the entry ends for the other person with the OA visa.

The equivalent of 800k baht only has to be in the bank on the day your apply for the OA visa. Or can proof of 65k baht of income.

6. You can combine your income and money in the bank to reach a total of 800k baht. Gross income can be used.

Info about the OA visa can be found here. https://www.thaicgny.com/ภาษาอ-งกฤษ-english-version/visa-service/doc-non-im-oa/  I would normally post info the from the embassy website but they have taken it down to the covid 19 situation.

 

[projectorguy1]

Thank you for the great info! I feel that you are so far ahead of me on this that I am like a third grader sitting in a college course!

 

1/2 - I am assuming you mean getting the OA visa in the states, then getting a bank account at a Thai bank, and making the deposit ASAP after arriving (to meet the 60 day requirement), then apply for the full year? Then to get the second year, just apply for an extension, and we are free to use/move the money after it is granted? 

 

4 - I had read that this could only be done if my wife was under 50...  https://www.thaiembassy.com/faq/retirement-requirements-with-a-wife.php

This seems very odd to me - if my wife is under 50, she is a dependent REGARDLESS of my age/situation...but as soon as she hits 50, all the sudden she has to qualify as if I weren't there??

 

6- I was aware that you could do this (although I have read that if you catch an immigration rep on a bad day, they have been known to require all one, or all the other. My gross and net will be close, since I won't be drawing 401k or social security yet (federal/state taxes in US will be zero); The only thing coming out will be my health insurance (~400/month). Still, it'll only be ~1400. I thought you had to have the pension coming in for a full year to use the 65k/month option, or combination.

 

I don't mind locking up the 800000 baht in the Thai bank (wouldn't mind avoiding having to do that though!), but I definitely wanted to avoid locking up/moving $50000 for the two of us...

[ubonjoe]

6 hours ago, projectorguy1 said:

1/2 - I am assuming you mean getting the OA visa in the states, then getting a bank account at a Thai bank, and making the deposit ASAP after arriving (to meet the 60 day requirement), then apply for the full year? Then to get the second year, just apply for an extension, and we are free to use/move the money after it is granted? 

No need to put any money in a Thai bank if you have a OA visa issued by an embassy or consulate. It only has to be in bank in the states.

 

6 hours ago, projectorguy1 said:

This seems very odd to me - if my wife is under 50, she is a dependent REGARDLESS of my age/situation...but as soon as she hits 50, all the sudden she has to qualify as if I weren't there??

Just little misleading info. She can apply for the non-o if she is 50 or over. There is no maximum age to qualify for it.

 

6 hours ago, projectorguy1 said:

I don't mind locking up the 800000 baht in the Thai bank (wouldn't mind avoiding having to do that though!), but I definitely wanted to avoid locking up/moving $50000 for the two of us...

No need for 800k baht in a Thai bank if you apply for a OA visa until your last one year entry expires and you do not apply for a new OA visa in the states.

[Mike Teavee]

@projectorguy1Whilst the OA Visa from your home country is a good option, it does require Health Insurance that is approved by Thailand with a cover of 400,000 inpatient & 40,000 outpatient...   https://www.thaiembassy.com/travel/health-insurance-thailand-new-requirement-for-retirees.php

 

Getting the cover is generally not a problem (Unless you're > 75 and/or have pre-existing conditions) but unless you can get a signed certificate from the company stating it meets the requirements, you're stuck to buying Health Insurance from the approved Thai list. 

  

If this is going to be a problem for you, I would suggest you look at getting a 90 day Non-O, if these are not available in your country then you can get one from a nearby (to Thailand) country like Laos, Malaysia, Vietnam etc... 

 

I wouldn't worry about opening a bank account as this can be done in minutes, I did mine in Bangkok with a 30 day Visa Exempt stamp (Though I did use Siam Legal to help me, cost of 3,000 THB, as I only had the day to get it open before returning back to Singapore for work) & money can be transferred in a couple of hours using Transferwise (suggest you set-up an account beforehand as there is some too-ing & fro-ing around proof of address etc...) As you're in the US I would also suggest you set-up a Charles Schwab account so you get ATM fee free withdrawals on any cash you take out of your US account. 

[Peter Denis]

Hi Jerry,

There can be no doubt that - given your travel plans - applying for the 1-year Non Imm O-A (long-stay) Visa at a thai Embassy/Consulate in USA is the best option, both for yourself and for your wife.

I presume that your wife is not a thai national, but if so do let me know as that would give you way more options.

The Non Imm O-A Visa can provide you with almost 2 years of thai IO hassle-free stay in Thailand.  So no need to park money on a thai bank-account or do monthly income transfers to such a thai bank-account.  Also no hassle with having to apply for a Non Imm O Visa or a 1-year extension of stay, during those two years.  Just enjoy your stay in Thailand...

Because of the since 29 October 2019 required IO-approved health-insurance policy when applying for the Non Imm O-A Visa, many posters on the TV Forum are recommending to stay clear of the Non Imm O-A Visa. 

Although that was correct in the early days it is not so anymore, and in most cases it would still be worthwhile to apply for that Non Imm O-A Visa.  Apart from the 'regular' requirements you need to meet that health-insurance requirement 'stumble-block' which sounds difficult or almost impossible, but - if you know how to do it - is relatively straightforward.

I have attached with this mail an Annex on

Meeting the Health-Insurance requirement when Applying for a Non Imm O-A (long-stay) Visa in your Home-Country

explaining how to do it and the options you have.

It is part of the comprehensive Guideline Document I compiled outlining all details/options on how to apply for a Non Imm O Visa.

In case you decide not to apply for the Non Imm O-A Visa, just PM me and I will send over that Guideline Document, as that would then be your next best option.

Cheers and success - Peter

Meeting the Health-Insurance requirement when Applying for a Non Imm O-A (long-stay) Visa in your Home-Country - rev3 dd 2020-07-01.docx

[projectorguy1]

Thank you all for such GREAT information!!! This is by FAR the best expat forum I have found! You will never get rid if me now! ????

 

Yes, my wife is non Thai... for some reason she wants to go with me ???? Of course so do I! 

 

The health insurance is no problem - I am very fortunate to work for the DoD, and have the FEP Blue Cross insurance. It works anywhere in the world, and I can keep it instead of enrolling in Medicare when I turn 65. Applying at the Thai consulate would be PERFECT - and the news that I can renew it for a year in Thailand is GREAT. I am REALLY excited for the world to rid itself of this awful virus, so we can go!! I am also glad to know that if we intend to stay past 2 years, all I need to transfer would be the 800000 ve 1.6 million...

I definitely will use Schwab, and are planning to look into transferwise. I need to compare the services with my Federal Credit Union... They offer fee free ATM use, and even reimburse me for fees from other banks. My credit card offers fee free cash advances also...The banking stuff REALLY confuses me sometimes...I will be doing a LOT of reading on the subject in the coming months. Mike Teavee - Great idea using an agent - That might be money well spent for a newby like me.

 

You guys are GREAT - A HUGE THANK YOU!!

[projectorguy1]

Peter Denis - Thank you for the great insurance information - After reading your attachment, I am concerned that it may be very difficult to meet the Thai requirements for insurance verification, even though I am, and will be fully insured. When I retire, my insurance premiums are paid off the top of each pension payment I receive, which will be for the rest of my life.

[projectorguy1]

After looking at the policy cost, it might be better just to pay for one year coverage commencing from the year my insurance cert ends (even though my coverage doesn't end) for me, even though I don't need it, to get the two year O-A visa. The cost would be under 200 USD. In this case, my wife would do the O visa...

[Peter Denis]

10 hours ago, projectorguy1 said:

After looking at the policy cost, it might be better just to pay for one year coverage commencing from the year my insurance cert ends (even though my coverage doesn't end) for me, even though I don't need it, to get the two year O-A visa. The cost would be under 200 USD. In this case, my wife would do the O visa...

Hi Projectorguy1,

As mentioned earlier, in your situation applying for the 1-year Non Imm O-A Visa would be without any doubt your best option (cheapest, easiest and no IO hassle once in Thailand).

Even if you are not able to persuade your FEP Blue Cross insurer to fill in and sign the Foreign Insurance Certificate, there is still the option of subscribing to the cheap throw-away Plan 1 policy offered by LMG Insurance, to meet the health-insurance requirement for your Non Imm O-A Visa application.

I would even advise that both yourself as well as your wife apply for the Non Imm O-A Visa.

Yes, she can apply for a spouse Visa with lower financials to be proven and no need for the Embassy approved health-insurance.

But doing so, she would have to deal with Immigration once in Thailand, and be a.o. confronted with the requirement to park money or transfer money to a personal thai bank-account.

Imo it would be far easier if both of you applied for the Non Imm O-A Visa, so that both of you will be able to enjoy almost 2 full years in Thailand without any IO-hassle.

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

I would even advise that both yourself as well as your wife apply for the Non Imm O-A Visa.

Yes, she can apply for a spouse Visa with lower financials to be proven and no need for the Embassy approved health-insurance.

His wife can get a single entry non-o visa when he applies for his OA and then apply for an extension of stay for being a member of his family without any financial proof. Her extension will valid to the day his most recent entry using the OA visa ends.

Her extension is done under clause 20 of immigration order 327/2557.

[Peter Denis]

15 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

His wife can get a single entry non-o visa when he applies for his OA and then apply for an extension of stay for being a member of his family without any financial proof. Her extension will valid to the day his most recent entry using the OA visa ends.

Her extension is done under clause 20 of immigration order 327/2557.

Thanks!

Wasn't aware that once in Thailand his wife would not need to provide financial proof when using that option, and obviously that would be her best choice.

 

[projectorguy1]

8 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi Projectorguy1,

As mentioned earlier, in your situation applying for the 1-year Non Imm O-A Visa would be without any doubt your best option (cheapest, easiest and no IO hassle once in Thailand).

Even if you are not able to persuade your FEP Blue Cross insurer to fill in and sign the Foreign Insurance Certificate, there is still the option of subscribing to the cheap throw-away Plan 1 policy offered by LMG Insurance, to meet the health-insurance requirement for your Non Imm O-A Visa application.

I would even advise that both yourself as well as your wife apply for the Non Imm O-A Visa.

Yes, she can apply for a spouse Visa with lower financials to be proven and no need for the Embassy approved health-insurance.

But doing so, she would have to deal with Immigration once in Thailand, and be a.o. confronted with the requirement to park money or transfer money to a personal thai bank-account.

Imo it would be far easier if both of you applied for the Non Imm O-A Visa, so that both of you will be able to enjoy almost 2 full years in Thailand without any IO-hassle.

I think you and ubonjoe are 100% correct, and have REALLY provided some relief for me in this process! The O-A visa for me is definitely my best option...If we get there and plan to stay beyond 2 years, then obviously, the retirement visa should be easier to execute after being there for almost two years!

[projectorguy1]

7 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

His wife can get a single entry non-o visa when he applies for his OA and then apply for an extension of stay for being a member of his family without any financial proof. Her extension will valid to the day his most recent entry using the OA visa ends.

Her extension is done under clause 20 of immigration order 327/2557.

That is what we will do - thanks for your help! So if I have the full two years (almost), she will be given the same? That would be SUCH a relief, and way less hassle than I was expecting. Thank you SO MUCH for your advice!

 

Just one more thing - As I read the O-A information, it looks like I would have to leave the country and return just before the end of the first year - what in addition (if that is required) is needed to activete the second year?

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, projectorguy1 said:

Just one more thing - As I read the O-A information, it looks like I would have to leave the country and return just before the end of the first year - what in addition (if that is required) is needed to activete the second year?

The only thing you will need other than your passport is proof you have a year of insurance coverage.

You wife will have to apply for a new extension when your permit to stay changes since hers will be valid to the same date as yours.

[Peter Denis]

24 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The only thing you will need other than your passport is proof you have a year of insurance coverage.

You wife will have to apply for a new extension when your permit to stay changes since hers will be valid to the same date as yours.

When re-entering Thailand during the first year when your 1-year Non Imm O-A Visa has not expired yet, you will be stamped in for a new permission to stay for whatever period is shorter:

- the full year that the Non Imm O-A Visa entitles you to

OR

- till the expiry date of your health-insurance policy as mentioned on a note next to the Visa sticker in your passport (hence my recommendation to request your foreign insurer to mention a 2-year period on the FIC).

In case the health-insurance policy you subscribed to when applying for the Non Imm O-A Visa is limited to one year, you can after having been in Thailand for a couple of months subscribe to a new cheap throw-away thai IO-approved health-insurance policy and the policy expiry date will then become your permission to stay date after having exited and returning during the Visa validity period.

Please note that when exiting Thailand and planning to return AFTER your 1-year Visa validity has expired, that you would need to buy a Re-Entry Permit before exiting in order to keep the granted permission to stay 'alive' on your return.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Peter Denis

[Joe1593]

I have another question concerning Retirement Visa: I want to rearrange my 800000 Baht account. So how are the latest deadlines? I have read something about 3 months after and 2 months before the new visa I cannot touch the account? So I would have to transfer the money to a new account in the period between these deadlines? How are the current deadlines?
Any valid information appreciated!  

[Peter Denis]

11 minutes ago, Joe1593 said:

I have another question concerning Retirement Visa: I want to rearrange my 800000 Baht account. So how are the latest deadlines? I have read something about 3 months after and 2 months before the new visa I cannot touch the account? So I would have to transfer the money to a new account in the period between these deadlines? How are the current deadlines?
Any valid information appreciated!  

When you are already on a 1-year extension of stay based on your Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement, and you use the money-in-bank method to meet the financial requirements, you need to:

- provide evidence that you kept the required funds in your personal thai bank account

- during the 12 months preceding the date of application for the new extension

- and that these funds did no go below the following tressholds:

• 800.000 THB during the first 3 months
• 400.000 THB during the next 7 months
• 800.00o THB during the last 2 months

 

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

So I would have to transfer the money to a new account in the period between these deadlines?

You could do the transfer to new account during the 400k baht period that is 3 months after the application to 2 months before.

Do the transfer and show both bank books when you apply for the next expansion prove it was transferred  and never went below 400k baht.

[Joe1593]

Thanks for the info! However, if this is the case, I will have a problem with putting the money to another bank because this would have to happen within one year before the new extension, and that would mean, I would need a bank statement from two banks next year? If the deadline is one year, how can I transfer the money to another account ever?

 

[Joe1593]

Ok, so transfer during the 7 month 400000 Baht period, show both bank books, but do I need two bank statements?

[Joe1593]

Or maybe after 3 months put 400 000 on the new bank book, wait some days and then put the rest to the new bank book. That way there is no period of time with less than 400000 on any bank book, (f.e. during the transfer.) 

 

[Joe1593]

I´ll probably need 2 bank statements then, I´m afraid. I´ll inquire during my next 90 days reporting.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Joe1593 said:

Thanks for the info! However, if this is the case, I will have a problem with putting the money to another bank because this would have to happen within one year before the new extension, and that would mean, I would need a bank statement from two banks next year? If the deadline is one year, how can I transfer the money to another account ever?

 

Get a bank statement for the old account just before you move the money to the new account.

[projectorguy1]

On 7/14/2020 at 5:48 AM, Peter Denis said:

When re-entering Thailand during the first year when your 1-year Non Imm O-A Visa has not expired yet, you will be stamped in for a new permission to stay for whatever period is shorter:

- the full year that the Non Imm O-A Visa entitles you to

OR

- till the expiry date of your health-insurance policy as mentioned on a note next to the Visa sticker in your passport (hence my recommendation to request your foreign insurer to mention a 2-year period on the FIC).

In case the health-insurance policy you subscribed to when applying for the Non Imm O-A Visa is limited to one year, you can after having been in Thailand for a couple of months subscribe to a new cheap throw-away thai IO-approved health-insurance policy and the policy expiry date will then become your permission to stay date after having exited and returning during the Visa validity period.

Please note that when exiting Thailand and planning to return AFTER your 1-year Visa validity has expired, that you would need to buy a Re-Entry Permit before exiting in order to keep the granted permission to stay 'alive' on your return.

Thanks again for the advice - I was thinking that if I could not get the 2 year FIC form from my insurer (BCBS), I would buy a policy like the one linked in your attachment before leaving, commencing one year out, and lasting the full year two. Is that possible?

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, projectorguy1 said:

Thanks again for the advice - I was thinking that if I could not get the 2 year FIC form from my insurer (BCBS), I would buy a policy like the one linked in your attachment before leaving, commencing one year out, and lasting the full year two. Is that possible?

Yes, that would be possible. 

Your best option would of course be that your home-country insurer which provides international coverage when you are in Thailand, could be persuaded to fill in a 2-year period on the FIC (and that this is taken over by the thai Embassy on the insurance-note next to the O-A Visa sticker in your passport).  Even if your insurer (or the thai Embassy) is not willing to do that and only want to fill in a 1-year period, that would still be your best option.

If you are unable to get the foreign insurance FIC - for whatever reason - then your next best option would be to subscribe to one of the thai IO-approved health-insurance policies (the cheapest and easiest one being the LMG Insurance Plan 1 policy with 200K deductible).

LMG will not issue policies for more than 1 year, so that means that somewhere during that 1st year, let's say in the 3rd quarter - e.g. when planning to make a trip to a neighboring country in that period - that you request LMG to 'reschedule' your policy validity and pay the fee for doing so.  That will ensure that on your return from your trip abroad that the permission to stay is not capped to the 'old' LMG policy validity date, but that you have a Certificate with the rescheduled policy with you when re-entering Thailand again, which will allow you to be stamped in again for almost a full year permission to stay.  The same procedure needs to be followed when you plan to make the border-run in the final days of your Non Imm O-A validity.  Doing so, you will be able to make use of almost the full 2nd year the O-A Visa can provide you.

 

 

[Peter Denis]

On 7/14/2020 at 12:16 PM, projectorguy1 said:

I think you and ubonjoe are 100% correct, and have REALLY provided some relief for me in this process! The O-A visa for me is definitely my best option...If we get there and plan to stay beyond 2 years, then obviously, the retirement visa should be easier to execute after being there for almost two years!

Did sent you a PM to address some 'loose ends'.

> To access your PM messages just click the letter-icon when logged-in to the Forum