Ambassadors entering Thailand will be quarantined: CCSA

[webfact]

Ambassadors entering Thailand will be quarantined: CCSA

By The Nation

 

 

The ambassador of Estonia, who was refused entry by a condominium building where she had rented a unit, on Thursday night moved to Grand Centralpoint Bangkok Hotel, which is one of the registered state quarantine hotels, the government’s Centre for Covid-19 Situation Administration (CCSA) said on Friday.

 

CCSA spokesman Dr Taweesin Visanuyothin said the centre had resolved on Friday that all ambassadors who entered Thailand would have to be in Alternate State Quarantine on arrival for 14 days.

 

Source: https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30391484

 

-- © Copyright The Nation Thailand 2020-07-17

 

- Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you

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[LeamchabangLarry]

Why did the condo building have to step up here?  Shouldn't she have been escorted to the quarantine as soon as she landed?

idiots

[webfact]

Diplomat moves into alternate state quarantine after condo authorities deny check-in

By The Nation

 

 

The diplomat of Estonia was denied permission to stay in an apartment she had rented in Khlong Toei district on Thursday by the juristic authority of the building as she was not quarantined.

 

At 8pm, police were notified by the juristic authority of the condominium on Sukhumvit Soi 20 that an Estonian diplomat mission expected to stay at the building without being quarantined for Covid-19.

 

Police went to the building for more information and learned the guest was a woman diplomat who had arrived at 2pm from Germany.

 

A Foreign Ministry official took her for Covid-19 testing, and the result was negative.

 

When she came to the condominium building requesting accommodation, the juristic authority refused as she had not been quarantined and had booked the room in her name, not the embassy's.

 

A solution was found around 10pm after an Estonian diplomatic mission and the Foreign Ministry agreed to take her to an alternative state quarantine facility.

 

Source: https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30391485

 

-- © Copyright The Nation Thailand 2020-07-17

 

- Whatever you're going through, the Samaritans are here for you

- Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking COVID-19 updates

[DLock]

Just so I'm clear, the Diplomat arrived sometime this week, likely Thursday, after the Egyptian issue.

 

She did not get tested on arrival and not quarantined, like every other person?

 

The condo had to determine she had no quarantined and set up to solve the problem?

 

How is this still possible that people of influence do not follow the same rules?

 

Virus don't care.

[Shuya]

Not that the condominium juristic office would have the slightest authority to do so, but everybody who would have doesn’t want to be responsible.

[DrJack54]

Only Ambassadors? 

What about the VIP 

[DrJack54]

Just now, DLock said:

She did not get tested on arrival and not quarantined, like every other person?

No problem. She is not a soldier.

[86Tiger]

Guys, as general rule all over the globe officially recognized diplomats are not subject to local authorities.  All communications on requirements or requests of the host government are made thru ministries of foreign affairs directly to the diplomatic mission by diplomatic note.  So it is not unusual this ambassador proceeded and was allowed to proceed to her residence as normal if no official communication had notified her otherwise.

 

On a big picture it has to be that way, otherwise diplomats would be subject to harassment and/or coercion by unscrupulous local or state law enforcement every day in many nations all over the world.  The flip side is diplomats have an obligation to honor laws and wishes of host government willingly or risk being asked to leave and having diplomatic credential revoked.

 

 

[LeamchabangLarry]

16 minutes ago, 86Tiger said:

Guys, as general rule all over the globe officially recognized diplomats are not subject to local authorities.  All communications on requirements or requests of the host government are made thru ministries of foreign affairs directly to the diplomatic mission by diplomatic note.  So it is not unusual this ambassador proceeded and was allowed to proceed to her residence as normal if no official communication had notified her otherwise.

 

On a big picture it has to be that way, otherwise diplomats would be subject to harassment and/or coercion by unscrupulous local or state law enforcement every day in many nations all over the world.  The flip side is diplomats have an obligation to honor laws and wishes of host government willingly or risk being asked to leave and having diplomatic credential revoked.

 

 

Yes we've all seen the Lethal Weapon movie with the "Diplomatic Immunity" guy, but these are extreme times and they just have to be bothered a little more for the greater good of the world/country.

 

[DrJack54]

19 minutes ago, 86Tiger said:

Guys, as general rule all over the globe officially recognized diplomats are not subject to local authorities.

Seems that applies to the diplomats wives also. What's the name of that American wife of some USA diplomat that had some fuss in UK.

[4MyEgo]

42 minutes ago, 86Tiger said:

Guys, as general rule all over the globe officially recognized diplomats are not subject to local authorities.  All communications on requirements or requests of the host government are made thru ministries of foreign affairs directly to the diplomatic mission by diplomatic note.  So it is not unusual this ambassador proceeded and was allowed to proceed to her residence as normal if no official communication had notified her otherwise.

 

On a big picture it has to be that way, otherwise diplomats would be subject to harassment and/or coercion by unscrupulous local or state law enforcement every day in many nations all over the world.  The flip side is diplomats have an obligation to honor laws and wishes of host government willingly or risk being asked to leave and having diplomatic credential revoked.

 

 

I believe that less than a week ago at most, the Thai government sent such a notice to embassies around the globe spelling out that everyone now has to quarantine.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1951236/visits-by-foreign-diplomats-business-reps-suspended

Edited July 17, 2020 by 4MyEgo

[natway09]

I would want to know how she arrived from Germany & just strolled out of the airport ?

Heads need to roll.

So much for the authorities "closing the gate"

[kingstonkid]

Having had a diplomatic passport let me explain. Diplomatic person's and there accompanying family are all issued diplomatic passport.  This means that when entering a country they are exempt from being stopped having our bags searched or anything else.  An example I ce back to Pakistan with a bottle of cdn club in my carry on.  The Pakistani noticed but when he saw my passport all he could do was welcome me back to Islamabad.

 

That being said there should have been someone from the embassy there to meet her and make sure that she was looked after and all the i's dotted.

[khunjeff]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

CCSA spokesman Dr Taweesin Visanuyothin said the centre had resolved on Friday that all ambassadors who entered Thailand would have to be in Alternate State Quarantine on arrival for 14 days.

The CCSA is not responsible for the conduct of Thailand's foreign relations, and knows nothing about long-standing international diplomatic agreements and protocols. It cannot order a foreign ambassador to do anything, and there are a number of countries that have stated that requiring a specific type of test or quarantine for accredited diplomats is in violation of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations.

 

This is not a matter of "powerful VIPs don't have to follow the rules" - diplomatic immunity as a concept has developed over centuries as a way of allowing countries to interact with each other safely and predictably, and throwing it out the window in reaction to a crisis is not good for the international community or for Thailand. (As a relatively small and weak country, Thailand is much more reliant on diplomacy to ease its way through the world than wealthy, powerful countries are.)

 

Foreign missions will cooperate with taking measures to prevent the spread of the virus, but they will not be ordered around, and will insist on consultation regarding those measures. They will afford the same courtesy to Thai missions in their own countries.

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

When she came to the condominium building requesting accommodation, the juristic authority refused as she had not been quarantined and had booked the room in her name, not the embassy's.

So she was allowed to exit the airport, travel freely to the condo, to be turned down on entry & police informed..
Thailand still screwing it up !

[Colki]

Kingston Kid what you say is factually incorrect. Diplomatic bags that are duly sealed are exempt from being searched but your personal bags are not and you are subject to the same protocol as other passengers otherwise your bottle of alcohol would not have been found if as you insinuate that you can just walk through and not be subject to clearance procedures. If in your bags illegal items are discovered you could claim diplomatic immunity and for a very minor issue like a bottle of alcohol common sense would prevail and on presentatation of your passport you would be able to continue without further issue.

Also no diplomat can just walk into a sterile area at an airport to greet incoming passengers connected to an embassy and supervise procedure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I believe that less than a week ago at most, the Thai government sent such a notice to embassies around the globe spelling out that everyone now has to quarantine.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1951236/visits-by-foreign-diplomats-business-reps-suspended

Further, surely Thailand (any country) is perfectly entitled to override or refuse to accept any 'international ambassador protocols' in some circumstances e.g. a pandemic which is close to out of control, and where needed to override without notice. 

[alyx]

How can someone's address be disclosed? Especially a diplomat's whereabout 

That is unacceptable

[86Tiger]

1 minute ago, scorecard said:

Further, surely Thailand (any country) is perfectly entitled to override or refuse to accept any 'international ambassador protocols' in some circumstances e.g. a pandemic which is close to out of control, and where needed to override without notice. 

You are absolutely correct.  Thailand can through proper channels change all protocols.  The result would be no embassies staffed in Bangkok.  And reciprocal policies would be implemented and Thai embassies/consulates would be closed all across the world.

 

You want more confusion and problems with visa and passport?  This is how you do it.

[AlfHuy]

Wowww. In our condo, juristic department are lazy like hell. Don't go there to complain, they just do not care.

At 5pm, all gone.

Grab food delivery every 5 minutes.

A few months ago, almost daily, Chinese coming for Airbnb.

How do they know who rented? Since when, juristic is informed who is coming?

How do they know, that this Ambassador just came back from Europe and wasn't all the time in Thailand.

Sounds a bit fishy this story.

Maybe now the condo manager will get a white uniform with lots of golden stars.

[scorecard]

57 minutes ago, 86Tiger said:

You are absolutely correct.  Thailand can through proper channels change all protocols.  The result would be no embassies staffed in Bangkok.  And reciprocal policies would be implemented and Thai embassies/consulates would be closed all across the world.

 

You want more confusion and problems with visa and passport?  This is how you do it.

Good points. IMHO Thailand, any country has the right to override where needed along with a responsibility to protect it's citizens, especially in a fast moving pandemic situation, any the responsibility to quickly discuss so that there's a mutually agreed balanced result. Surely that's what diplomacy is all about.

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

Further, surely Thailand (any country) is perfectly entitled to override or refuse to accept any 'international ambassador protocols' in some circumstances e.g. a pandemic which is close to out of control, and where needed to override without notice. 

Who knows what these guys have agreed too and what notice they are required to give to break their immunities ?

 

But yes this should have been a given.

[Stocky]

3 hours ago, khunjeff said:

there are a number of countries that have stated that requiring a specific type of test or quarantine for accredited diplomats is in violation of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations.

Well they can p##s off home then.

[GigsGigs]

6 hours ago, 86Tiger said:

The flip side is diplomats have an obligation to honor laws and wishes of host government willingly or risk being asked to leave and having diplomatic credential revoked.

Thankfully you couldn't be further away from the truth. The only reason why she accepted to submit herself to this kind of "abuse" from the Thai police's "authority" is because at the end of the day Estonia is seen as a "small country", try hussling with a diplomat from say USA, China, France, Germany or UK and I assure you heads are going to start rolling.

 

Diplomats of other countries are literally EXEMPTED from following ANY local laws at ANY given time, in fact they couldn't even arrest her even if they wanted to and they tried, with the biggest prime example being a diplomat from an African country being "arrested" earlier this year at a local checkpoint in France, the cop's dogs marked the diplomat's car trunk, it contained a suitcase filled to the brim with narcotics, yet the cops had no other legal recourse than... letting it go and apologizing to the diplomat's driver for delaying them and interfering, naturally police reports were filled as one would expect, however the case went nowhere as far as I'm aware.

 

Diplomats and diplomatic passports along with their vehicles and their Embassies are not to be messed with, this could be interpreted as an act of war and the repercussions could be far worse than one would think.

Edited July 17, 2020 by GigsGigs

[simon43]

What's the name of that American wife of some USA diplomat that had some fuss in UK.

 

Fuss?  Oh you mean mowing down and killing an innocent British teenager because she still thought she was in the USA and was driving on the wrong side of the road!

[scorecard]

21 minutes ago, GigsGigs said:

Thankfully you couldn't be further away from the truth. The only reason why she accepted to submit herself to this kind of "abuse" from the Thai police's "authority" is because at the end of the day Estonia is seen as a "small country", try hussling with a diplomat from say USA, China, France, Germany or UK and I assure you heads are going to start rolling.

 

Diplomats of other countries are literally EXEMPTED from following ANY local laws at ANY given time, in fact they couldn't even arrest her even if they wanted to and they tried, with the biggest prime example being a diplomat from an African country being "arrested" earlier this year at a local checkpoint in France, the cop's dogs marked the diplomat's car trunk, it contained a suitcase filled to the brim with narcotics, yet the cops had no other legal recourse than... letting it go and apologizing to the diplomat's driver for delaying them and interfering, naturally police reports were filled as one would expect, however the case went nowhere as far as I'm aware.

 

Diplomats and diplomatic passports along with their vehicles and their Embassies are not to be messed with, this could be interpreted as an act of war and the repercussions could be far worse than one would think.

"...it contained a suitcase filled to the brim with narcotics, yet the cops had no other legal recourse than... letting it go and apologizing to the diplomat's driver for delaying them and interfering, naturally police reports were filled as one would expect, however the case went nowhere as far as I'm aware. ..."

 

All the more reason why diplomats etc., should be required as a matter of respect to abide by local laws, regulations etc.

[86Tiger]

25 minutes ago, GigsGigs said:

Thankfully you couldn't be further away from the truth. The only reason why she accepted to submit herself to this kind of "abuse" from the Thai police's "authority" is because at the end of the day Estonia is seen as a "small country", try hussling with a diplomat from say USA, China, France, Germany or UK and I assure you heads are going to start rolling.

 

Diplomats of other countries are literally EXEMPTED from following ANY local laws at ANY given time, in fact they couldn't even arrest her even if they wanted to and they tried, with the biggest prime example being a diplomat from an African country being "arrested" earlier this year at a local checkpoint in France, the cop's dogs marked the diplomat's car trunk, it contained a suitcase filled to the brim with narcotics, yet the cops had no other legal recourse than... letting it go and apologizing to the diplomat's driver for delaying them and interfering, naturally police reports were filled as one would expect, however the case went nowhere as far as I'm aware.

 

Diplomats and diplomatic passports along with their vehicles and their Embassies are not to be messed with, this could be interpreted as an act of war and the repercussions could be far worse than one would think.

We agree.  I may have worded it better: Diplomats have responsibility to conduct themselves honorably in representing their government.  But are not subject by international convention to any host nation authority.

 

And yes, the Estonia ambassador chose to play nice rather than invoke an incident.  But my bet her quarantine doesn't last long, she has already received an official apology and will be at her embassy or on a plane very very soon.

[GigsGigs]

54 minutes ago, 86Tiger said:

We agree.  I may have worded it better: Diplomats have responsibility to conduct themselves honorably in representing their government.  But are not subject by international convention to any host nation authority.

 

And yes, the Estonia ambassador chose to play nice rather than invoke an incident.  But my bet her quarantine doesn't last long, she has already received an official apology and will be at her embassy or on a plane very very soon.

Normally the right procedure (in case she didn't want/felt/agreed/comply to whatever they've asked of her) would be to *gently* escort her to her Embassy, as the Embassies are considering foreign soil. That is all they can do. Thai style they would probably would have to do it while filming themselves to cover themselves from any wrongdoings to a diplomat of a foreign nation. That's about it.

 

As you can also glarner from the original photo the officers stood from a very reasonable distance from her body and seemed to be avoiding eye contact, their body language alone tells you they knew full well they were threading on egg shells, there was very little they could do unless she was a threat to their safety (which she was not).

 

At the end of the day it it also because she was from Estonia, I doubt any of these cops could point on a world map/atlas the location of Estonia, Latvia etc if they were asked.

 

Try pulling the same stunt against a diplomat from USA, France, Australia, China or any of the big five and see what happens next.

 

[Srikcir]

So another apology from Prayut?

Not to mention from the Minister of Foreign Affairs?

Maybe the government needs a new ministry: Minister of National Apologies.