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Polarizing

How to wire this?

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Posted (edited)

Hi TV again!

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/BpfBrHb

I want to move the outlet and the two switches to the tubes where I created the hole. The left tube with 4 white wires is leading to the outlet and the switches CURRENTLY, however since there is no ground wire in the socket I am thinking of connecting the right tube's collored wires with the socket (this one is leading to the socket that was wrongly wired that I posted yesterday).

The challenge for me would be to determine how to wire the switch, can someone guide me with this? And since I will be using the colored wires, does this mean I have an extra neutral which I can use for a smart switch if i wish to do so?

-All of these wires are on the same switch in the breakerbox. 

Thanks!!

Edited by Polarizing

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A bit easier for folks to see :

image.png.34672611632c93972375d80932122a62.png

image.png.c9011ca894a2e776284c3d06bf6311e2.png

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No idea what you want to achieve.  You mention no ground and wanting to do something instead?  NO.  Ground is ground. There is no such thing as an "extra neutral".  There is no such thing as a "smart switch" using such.  

 

What is it that you want to do?  "Moving the outlets and switches to the tubes" is not enough information.

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How do you test the power cable stand in a puddle and hold 1 wire

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3 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

No idea what you want to achieve.  You mention no ground and wanting to do something instead?  NO.  Ground is ground. There is no such thing as an "extra neutral".  There is no such thing as a "smart switch" using such.  

 

What is it that you want to do?  "Moving the outlets and switches to the tubes" is not enough information.

if you click on the link I provided you can see that in the socket there is no ground connected, the picture that steven posted does not show the whole picture. How do we solve that. Well in the picture with the two tubes where I made the two openings, you can  see that theres a tube with colored wires in it. We can just use those three wires to make the outlet.

So when we disconnect the outlet from the white wires,  there are some wires that are left over (If its a neutral, I would think that I can use it for a smart switch)

I just want to move the outlet and the switch to where I made the tube openings...

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1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

 There is no such thing as an "extra neutral".  There is no such thing as a "smart switch" using such. 

I think it could be interpreted as:  For future installation of a smart switch, there need to be a neutral wire present.

 

Most switches only has the live wire. One hot live wire coming from the CU and one switched live wire going to the lightpoint. At the light point there is neutral.

 

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2 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

I think it could be interpreted as:  For future installation of a smart switch, there need to be a neutral wire present.

 

Most switches only has the live wire. One hot live wire coming from the CU and one switched live wire going to the lightpoint. At the light point there is neutral.

 

Okay what im saying is that I have at least two neutrals there. One in the tube with collored wires, one in the white wire tube.

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Can you take a picture of the whole setup? Where are the other wires going to (socket?) and where are the switch and unearthed socket located?

This would help us with telling how to pull cables and locations for taps.

 

For the switch/unearthed socket in the photo. It looks like the one with the black tape marks are the live wire, which are taped off from a blue wire somewhere in the attic/walls,  and the  thinnier white wire (1.5sqmm)  is the real neutral. But very bad practice.

Do you have testing gears? Like a neon light test probe/screwdriver?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Polarizing said:

(this one is leading to the socket that was wrongly wired that I posted yesterday)

Then I have to forget about the coloring in the CU. We can't rely on the wiring system, and coloring, in the CU and this situation outside.

Four white wires going to the unearthed socket and switches, one of them being neutral and one live and two switched live (or neutral..).

 

There must be a tap in the ceiling/wall where the blue wire became white.

Now I can't be sure that the switches are switching live OR the neutral wire.

 

And who can tell, that the 'wrong' socket is indeed wrong, maybe it is good but somewhere in the line the color of the wire changed.

 

With good testing and marking we can be sure.

Photos are getting useless now, unfortunately.

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8 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

Then I have to forget about the coloring in the CU. We can't rely on the wiring system, and coloring, in the CU and this situation outside.

Four white wires going to the unearthed socket and switches, one of them being neutral and one live and two switched live (or neutral..).

 

There must be a tap in the ceiling/wall where the blue wire became white.

Now I can't be sure that the switches are switching live OR the neutral wire.

 

And who can tell, that the 'wrong' socket is indeed wrong, maybe it is good but somewhere in the line the color of the wire changed.

 

With good testing and marking we can be sure.

Photos are getting useless now, unfortunately.

As far as I can tell, i see no thinnier wire here. All same sized. We don't know which wire exactly is.


The switch and the outlet from the upper picture comes from the left circle.
All 4 wires are pulled somewhere from the ceiling, since thais don't match colors they became all white, no surprise here.

I have testing gear, but what I am more interested in a step by step plan than to actually test it, because I drilled into a wire somewhere else in my condo and I did not fix that yet (same breaker switch).

and we dont know if the wrong socket is really wrong or not for now, but I know how to confirm that.

I actually think that this picture might confuse people even more haha...
 

kdhHtim.jpg

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43 minutes ago, Polarizing said:

As far as I can tell, i see no thinnier wire here. All same sized. We don't know which wire exactly is.

It looks like it is.. or it's an effect of angle/fisheye from the camera 🙂

image.png.cd02c8378f762ff9262ad4873ab1570e.png 

 

image.png.1292125181e4af8dcd5127a4a5333148.png

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15 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

It looks like it is.. or it's an effect of angle/fisheye from the camera 🙂

image.png.cd02c8378f762ff9262ad4873ab1570e.png 

 

image.png.1292125181e4af8dcd5127a4a5333148.png

How can I check it? 

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47 minutes ago, Polarizing said:


I actually think that this picture might confuse people even more haha...
 

kdhHtim.jpg

Not that much confusing 🙂 it made more clearly that those are two separated lines. Then another question will arise, are they both on the same breaker or different?

 

This is important for the solution, as we wouldn't mess it up with shared neutrals, which will works until when you, or next owner, decide to replace breakers for rcbo's and the load of the wiring.

(Load of two live wires with both their own rated breaker and the flowback of both over one neutral line which has to be avoided. )


 

Quote

 


The switch and the outlet from the upper picture comes from the left circle.
All 4 wires are pulled somewhere from the ceiling, since thais don't match colors they became all white, no surprise here.

I have testing gear, but what I am more interested in a step by step plan than to actually test it, because I drilled into a wire somewhere else in my condo and I did not fix that yet (same breaker switch).

and we dont know if the wrong socket is really wrong or not for now, but I know how to confirm that.

 

 

The steps are:

1. With the switches in 'off' position ; first measure which one of the white wire is the 'hot wire' and mark it.

   - If it is the one with the many black tape, then we know that that one was supposed to be the blue wire (in your case blue, in proper case it's brown or red). and also means that at the light points the fittings are neutral and switched-live.

2. pull the wiring out the new hole if you giving up the holes beneath, are you?

3. Forget the neutral in the left pipe just leave it here for future 'smart switch'

4. At the location of the hole use the wiring from the right pipe for the outlet. (Get a wall plate for both switches and power outlet.

 

For the right wire, to be sure about the wiring:

1. Measure between the blue and white = 220v

2. Measure between the green and blue = 220v

3. Measure between the green and white = 0v

4. Disconnect the neutral bar from the main switch (this turns off everything in home so do during the day and in the right order: mains off. disconnect. mains on)

5. Measure between the  green and blue = 220v

 

If step 5 is true, then the wiring at the outlet is ok and green is really the earth wire.

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2 minutes ago, Polarizing said:

How can I check it? 

Not to worry about now, it just look like it and could help with identifying if they are sized different.

But it probably isn't it would be obvious if they are by just comparing them with your eyes. (phone)Cameras does in fact little distorting of the image and perspective.

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8 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

Not that much confusing 🙂 it made more clearly that those are two separated lines. Then another question will arise, are they both on the same breaker or different?

 

3 hours ago, Polarizing said:

-All of these wires are on the same switch in the breakerbox. 

 

 

Just to be sure, there was a reason there are two tubes coming down from the ceiling.. 🙂

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