Multiple-Entry Non-O Visa Based on Marriage during COVID-19

[rattlesnake]

I hereby wish to create a topic specifically dedicated to all of us who are on multiple-entry Non-O visas based on marriage, who usually leave Thailand every 90 days and now can't do it anymore because of the COVID-19 crisis.

 

Our situation is unique and in my opinion needs to be addressed specifically by Thai authorities. Yes, we are given the option to extend our visas to 1 year, but this raises several issues: lots of people do not have 400k in the bank, nor 40k per month, despite having been living here perfectly legally. For example, if you're living here with Thai wife/kids on 35k per month, you are out of options and forced to leave the country (which raises a number of technical and even ethical issues) or overstay (with the grim consequences this entails). Even if you do have 40k per month, some IOs technically only accept pensions.

 

These types of visas are not illegal, they are legit, and in my opinion as long as neighbouring borders are closed people on multiple-entry non-O visas should be granted extensions.

 

The purpose of this topic is to allow people affected by this to reflect, suggest, help out and share experiences. Please only post if you are on a multiple-entry Non-O visa based on marriage who usually leaves the country every 90 days, or have relevant things to say in this respect.

 

Thanks!

 

[ubonjoe]

A off topic inflammatory post and replies to it have been removed. A repeat of it will result in a formal warning.

[steve187]

you are covered by the amnesty and near to the 26th Sept as a one off on each entry you can obtain a 60 day extension, you are better off than a lot of other categories of visa holder

[keith101]

I am in the same situation and there seems to be no real clarification on exactly what we are supposed to do , i will be going into my local IO and see what they have to say but they are the reason why i am on this type of visa despite showing them a bank statement showing all my Pension payments the lady behind the desk decided to not acknowledge 2 payments taking me below the required amount to qualify .

[keith101]

Just now, steve187 said:

you are covered by the amnesty and near to the 26th Sept as a one off on each entry you can obtain a 60 day extension, you are better off than a lot of other categories of visa holder

I have already used my 60 day ext. due to the fact the amnesty came to late for me .

[ozz1]

Myself and many others are in the same boat  when i go to Savannahkanet there allways are plenty of expats with thai wives getting o visas  but unfortunately if the borders are closed i might have to secure the  services of an agent  but ive allways thought it was strange having to go to laos to get it but this is Thailand and we have to comply with their rules  the border cities must be quiet  with out everyone going  over but  these are strange times we are in

[nutosf]

I went to Udon Thani IO last Monday with my Thai wife.  They said probable OK till 26 Sep.  Wait and see if boarders open.  They said they do not have any information.  I have an O visa ME good till Feb 2021.

Edited July 27, 2020 by nutosf
Add to text.

[jackdd]

2 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

These types of visas are not illegal, they are legit, and in my opinion as long as neighbouring borders are closed people on multiple-entry non-O visas should be granted extensions.

Always when thinking about immigration, you have to ask yourself: How can an IO profit from it?

If you can't fulfill the financial requirements for a one year extension:

1) They force you to use an agent to get a one year extension because there is no alternative -> Profit

2) They would introduce some special extension for which you could officially apply -> No profit

It becomes quite clear that they will stick with 1) and option 2) will most certainly never happen.

Edited July 27, 2020 by jackdd

[Keyser Soze666]

1 hour ago, keith101 said:

I am in the same situation and there seems to be no real clarification on exactly what we are supposed to do , i will be going into my local IO and see what they have to say but they are the reason why i am on this type of visa despite showing them a bank statement showing all my Pension payments the lady behind the desk decided to not acknowledge 2 payments taking me below the required amount to qualify .

What is it you need clarifying? if the borders are open by the time you need to leave you can go and get another one, if not, then you will either have to go onto an ext or onto overstay.

 

I suppose it's possible that they may allow further ext's for folks on this type of visa if they can't leave the country, but I doubt it myself.

[rattlesnake]

1 hour ago, Keyser Soze666 said:

What is it you need clarifying? if the borders are open by the time you need to leave you can go and get another one, if not, then you will either have to go onto an ext or onto overstay.

 

I suppose it's possible that they may allow further ext's for folks on this type of visa if they can't leave the country, but I doubt it myself.

"if the borders are open by the time you need to leave you can go and get another one, if not, then you will either have to go onto an ext or onto overstay."

 

It's the "you will have to go onto overstay" part I am talking about, and which made me start this topic. A government can't force people who have been residing legally in the country to go on overstay because they can't leave due to force majeure circumstances. I just can't see that happening. Maybe they will grant extensions on a case-by-case basis, i.e. ask to see stamps in your passport which prove you usually leave the country every 90 days.

[rattlesnake]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

Always when thinking about immigration, you have to ask yourself: How can an IO profit from it?

If you can't fulfill the financial requirements for a one year extension:

1) They force you to use an agent to get a one year extension because there is no alternative -> Profit

2) They would introduce some special extension for which you could officially apply -> No profit

It becomes quite clear that they will stick with 1) and option 2) will most certainly never happen.

This is true on a local IO level, not on a national governmental level. They can't officially force people who have been residing legally (and unable to maintain legal status due to force majeure) to go into illegality.

[FarFlungFalang]

2 hours ago, ozz1 said:

Myself and many others are in the same boat  when i go to Savannahkanet there allways are plenty of expats with thai wives getting o visas  but unfortunately if the borders are closed i might have to secure the  services of an agent  but ive allways thought it was strange having to go to laos to get it but this is Thailand and we have to comply with their rules  the border cities must be quiet  with out everyone going  over but  these are strange times we are in

I'm also a passenger of this boat which seems to be located in the upper reaches of Excrement Creek without a paddle.Being on an expired Non O ME visa and having also used my 60 day extension which expired late March I've been told last Monday I can't apply for the one year extension without a current and valid visa I will be at the mercy of the "case by case" basis  when I go into my local Imm Office on Wednesday.

31 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

This is true on a local IO level, not on a national governmental level. They can't officially force people who have been residing legally (and unable to maintain legal status due to force majeure) to go into illegality.

We can only wait and see how they intend to deal with our situation on an official level and see also if they are prepared to incarcerate those not in a position to accept repatriation.

[jackdd]

46 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

This is true on a local IO level, not on a national governmental level. They can't officially force people who have been residing legally (and unable to maintain legal status due to force majeure) to go into illegality.

To be fair with them, they aren't forcing you into illegality, you have two months time to choose one of various options which keep you legal. You just don't like any of these options.

[FarFlungFalang]

15 minutes ago, jackdd said:

To be fair with them, they aren't forcing you into illegality, you have two months time to choose one of various options which keep you legal. You just don't like any of these options.

Any suggestions on what those various options might be if the visa and 60 day extension have expired as I was informed that my only option was to leave Thailand before 26th Sept to get a new visa?

Edited July 27, 2020 by FarFlungFalang

[brain150]

Thai Immigration has tried to get people who live in Thailand on an "extension of stay" for a long time now !

With a multiple entry re-entry permit it is what Immigration wants everybody to have because this way they control

the situation !

 

Multiple entry visas are for people who are not supposed to live in Thailand !

Now they have a situation where they can enforce this quite easily.

 

It is not about whether you like it or not ... right now there seems to be no other option !!!

Edited July 27, 2020 by brain150

[jackdd]

15 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Any suggestions on what those various options might be if the visa and 60 day extension have expired as I was informed that my only option was to leave Thailand to get a new visa?

1) Use an agent to apply for a marriage extension

2) If you have for example 30k per month, you could supplement this with transfers from a friend from abroad or with a job which pays 10k per month, so that you have the required 40k

3) Let your wife take a loan so that you have 400k in the bank (if you have 30k pension per month you need just 100k in the bank)

4) Maybe you can sign up at a school and get an extension based on studying

5) Leave Thailand

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by jackdd

[rattlesnake]

10 minutes ago, jackdd said:

To be fair with them, they aren't forcing you into illegality, you have two months time to choose one of various options which keep you legal. You just don't like any of these options.

Firstly, I did not start this topic to whine about my personal situation, I have already sorted out my options and will be just fine. The purpose of this topic is to take a step back and consider things from a general standpoint.

 

The holders of this type of visa typically have families here, have actual lives here (children etc), have stable income and live here legally, sometimes have done so for many years. They are not always able to meet the financial requirements for an extension, especially given the current situation. Now telling them all of a sudden that they will have to "get out" as if they were mere tourists raises a number of questions, both on a legal and ethical level. That is the purpose of this topic and I look forward to reading insightful comments.

[Pravda]

I don't want to sound like someone who's riding the high horse, but these multiple entry non o marriage visas are not meant for long stay in Thailand. 

 

I am also on this exact same visa but I have 400k in the bank ready once the immigration smartens up and tells me that these visas are not meant for long stay. 

 

So I think you will be asked to leave if there is not another amnesty or don't have the cash ready. 

[brain150]

The big problem it seems is that Immigration is actually not supposed to give you a Visa !

That's the job of an Embassy or Consulate abroad !

 

That's the biggest issue at the moment !

Getting a visa on any normal way is pretty much impossible.

 

And Immigration is not really the instance to solve this problem !

They can only handle "permissions to stay" ... and not visas !

 

To understand this is the core to the problem many people have ... and I don't see that the Government WANTS to solve this problem !

If they want to really solve the problem they would just set up a consular service inside Thailand for the time being

that issues Visas ... obviously they don't do this [at least not right now]

[FarFlungFalang]

5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

1) Use an agent to apply for a marriage extension

2) If you have for example 30k per month, you could supplement this with transfers from a friend from abroad or with a job which pays 10k per month, so that you have the required 40k

3) Let your wife take a loan so that you have 400k in the bank

4) Maybe you can sign up at a school and get an extension based on studying

5) Leave Thailand

 

Agent option is maybe possible although legally and morally dubious.I have money to transfer to Thai bank so that's not the problem the problem is local Imm says can't as visa is expired I doubt they would accept number 4 as they know me already and would just say again visa has expired and I must leave Thailand and get a new visa ,and  number 5 is not an option I'm prepared to consider as it means going to Oz and all paying for quarantine etc and trying to get back to Thailand and paying again for quarantine etc but the main reason is this is my home and I live here with my wife and have done so for twenty years.You forgot the go to jail and wait for the border to open option which funnily enough is my preferred and cheapest option at the moment.

[Peter Denis]

6 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Agent option is maybe possible although legally and morally dubious.I have money to transfer to Thai bank so that's not the problem the problem is local Imm says can't as visa is expired I doubt they would accept number 4 as they know me already and would just say again visa has expired and I must leave Thailand and get a new visa ,and  number 5 is not an option I'm prepared to consider as it means going to Oz and all paying for quarantine etc and trying to get back to Thailand and paying again for quarantine etc but the main reason is this is my home and I live here with my wife and have done so for twenty years.You forgot the go to jail and wait for the border to open option which funnily enough is my preferred and cheapest option at the moment.

Or 'administratively' relocate to a more accomodating IO in another province.

You would only need a rental contract for a place in that new province and then do the TM-30 (or TM-27) change of address procedure at that new IO, which would then make you eligible to apply for the 1-year extension at the new IO.

You won't even have to physically relocate if you prefer staying in your present place, but when you apply for the 1-year extension of stay based on your Non Imm O Visa for reason of marriage, IO might do a check during the under consideration period, whether you and your wife are indeed living at the place you indicated. 

Note: When +50 years of age and applying for the 1-year extension of stay for reason of retirement, there won't even be an 'under consideration period' nor such a visit.

> But would be a matter to browse the Forum to find an IO that would handle your application for a 1-year extension of stay based on your current Non Imm O Visa, with an expired permission to stay and presently under the Amnesty.

 

[Isaan Alan]

1 hour ago, FarFlungFalang said:

I'm also a passenger of this boat which seems to be located in the upper reaches of Excrement Creek without a paddle.Being on an expired Non O ME visa and having also used my 60 day extension which expired late March I've been told last Monday I can't apply for the one year extension without a current and valid visa I will be at the mercy of the "case by case" basis  when I go into my local Imm Office on Wednesday.

We can only wait and see how they intend to deal with our situation on an official level and see also if they are prepared to incarcerate those not in a position to accept repatriation.

Yes I am in this situation also and have used up my 60 day extension. Local IOs either make up their own extra rules (for various reasons including profit) or stick to the Kafkaesque rules precisely which are like playing Russian roulette. My local IO said before the previous amnesty ending July 31, the only thing you can do is get a letter from the embassy or leave the country. I didn't expect any sympathy and I got none. The Aus embassy FB site promised a letter if you registered but none ever came. Lucky we got another reprieve. r

Agents seem to be able to work magic but you are adding to the corruption, which is distasteful for some. 14k to 16k seems to be your going rate for a whipped up retirement visa which supposedly ends all your troubles! The first 90 day report is a hurdle because they can check your bank balance, so the agents need to do that also.

No use going back to Oz with pax limits and quarantine and then trying to come back to Thailand.

It's a mess really so I have stopped worrying about it. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst, Maybe swimming lessons to get across the Mekong.

We got a reprieve,  the really sad case is teachers trying to renew their work visa as they have to leave the country. Who knows why? China does not force that

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Isaan Alan

[FarFlungFalang]

8 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Or 'administratively' relocate to a more accomodating IO in another province.

You would only need a rental contract for a place in that new province and then do the TM-30 (or TM-27) change of address procedure at that new IO, which would then make you eligible to apply for the 1-year extension at the new IO.

You won't even have to physically relocate if you prefer staying in your present place, but when you apply for the 1-year extension of stay based on your Non Imm O Visa for reason of marriage, IO might do a check during the under consideration period, whether you and your wife are indeed living at the place you indicated. 

Note: When +50 years of age and applying for the 1-year extension of stay for reason of retirement, there won't even be an 'under consideration period' nor such a visit.

> But would be a matter to browse the Forum to find an IO that would handle your application for a 1-year extension of stay based on your current Non Imm O Visa, with an expired permission to stay and presently under the Amnesty.

 

Thanks Peter I will consider this option after I test the waters at my local Imm office on Wednesday to see if things have changed since last Mondays visit.

[Eibot]

56 minutes ago, brain150 said:

Multiple entry visas are for people who are not supposed to live in Thailand !

Says who?

 

Seems perfect for people who live in Thailand but have to leave the country multiple times per year for work. 

 

Covid19 has created a difficult situation. The thai government is not oblivious too multiple entry. If they want to ban them they could simply do so....

[CFCjeff]

My non o  has also now expired and i have already used my 60 day extension, going to speak to my local office this week but if the borders stay shut what can they do ? 

I must admit im worried, i dont want to go back to the UK, my home is here with my wife and daughter.

Saying you should have got a 1 year extension doesnt help, for many reasons lots of us were content to border hop every 90 days.

I just hope immigration sympathize with our situation and offer a solution, as it stands at the moment i have no idea whats going to happen.

[Dan747]

I use the Non-Immigrant Visa Category “O” to get around the requirement of the Insurance like the "O-A". I do not mind leaving Thailand every 90 days or so to visit other countries in SE Asia. Now with Covid-19 all visa's require $100,000.00 insurance. Hopefully things will change with Herd Immunity and or a Vaccine probably next year.

[TransAm2002]

Hello everyone.  I also have this type of visa and staying in Thailand.  I am confusing with a new announcement released on 24th July.  I have questions.

 

1.  Do we need make a 90 days report during August this time?

2.  I see some post who did 60 days extension, not 1 year.  What documents do we have to prepare? Still need 400K bank saving?

 

 

[JeffersLos]

4 hours ago, jackdd said:

2) If you have for example 30k per month, you could supplement this with transfers from a friend from abroad or with a job which pays 10k per month, so that you have the required 40k

Some IO's insist on an embassy letter as financial proof, and not that Thai bank book and letter.

 

Some embassies require 6 months of payments and official letter from a company in the home nation to supply it.

[JeffersLos]

So I guess some problems could be:

 

Nearby embassies and consulates don't give the Non O muliple entry visa anymore. Like Phnom Penh have done for the last 20 years. 

 

If they can even get such a visa nearby, their 90 day border runs include having to get Covid Insurance etc etc.

[JeffersLos]

 

People that get a 60 day extension, it doesn't come into effect until the 27th of Sept.

 

So doing it now means you have your extension from Sept 27 + 60 days (So you're good until November 26th)

 

 

Sounds like a good deal.