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habuspasha

How about "common law" marrieds reunited?

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, habuspasha said:

A Thai judge recently settled a case by recognizing a relationship between a Danish man and a Thai woman as a "common law marriage."  So why can't immigration allow common law spouses a marriage visa? ...

Because a common law marriage is not a de jure marriage. The Covid-19 pandemic does not change this fact.

 

Edited by Puccini
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4 hours ago, Puccini said:

Because a common law marriage is not a de jure marriage. The Covid-19 pandemic does not change this fact.

 

"In law and government, de jure describes practices that are legally recognised."  The judge recognised it.  While de jure is distinguished from de facto, it is not limited to the letter of the law or legislation.  It includes judicial interpretation.  Of  course Covid 19 has nothing to do with whether or not a common law marriage should be legally recognised.  It is, or has been.  It could be now as Thailand seeks to reunite families as well.

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Common law is not considered a marriage in any country.  It is a relationship that has usually lasted 12 months of continuous co habitation.

 

Therefore it is not recognized by any immigration in any country.

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Posted (edited)

To make matters even worse - I personally know of several rich Thai-Chinese families who won't sign the marriage certificate; and themselves don't live in an "official" marriage, as it makes things easier when it comes to assets.

Mind you, they live together for 20+ years, have kids, business together etc. 

So in Thailand there doesn't appear to be any gotchas like in the West - don't sign the paper and you aren't married.

Interestingly enough, the youth are smarter than this so now they want the marriage certificate without the ceremony! (Probably googling which one gets them a new passport, hahaha)

Edited by DaftToPutRealName
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24 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

Common law is not considered a marriage in any country.  It is a relationship that has usually lasted 12 months of continuous co habitation.

 

Therefore it is not recognized by any immigration in any country.

A relationship akin to marriage is certainly recognised by UK immigration and I think EEA countries also.

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1 hour ago, kingstonkid said:

Common law is not considered a marriage in any country.  It is a relationship that has usually lasted 12 months of continuous co habitation.

 

Therefore it is not recognized by any immigration in any country.

That isn't true. The problem is that people often treat "live-in girlfriend" and "common law wife" as synonymous terms, which they're not. An actual common law marriage is legally equivalent to a registered marriage, whereas "shacking up" is not.

 

Even in countries that follow the common law (which Thailand does not), the exact requirements for a common law marriage vary, assuming it's allowed at all. (Only a handful of US states recognize it, for example.) Generally, the key factors are that the couple have cohabited for a certain period of time (often longer than 12 months), have consummated the relationship, and have held themselves out to the community as married.

 

If they meet those requirements in a place that recognizes such relationships, they are just as "married" as a couple that got a license and registered at city hall, and would even technically require a divorce if they wanted to separate and marry other people. No such unregistered relationship exists in Thailand - if you live together or have a village wedding, either party can walk away at any time with no formalities.

 

Obviously a registered marriage is much easier to prove than a common law one, and in practice it's relatively easy for a couple to avoid having their relationship called a "marriage" if that's what they want, but the US, at least, will accept a genuine common law marriage as valid for immigration purposes. The pertinent regulation is the following:

 

9 FAM 102.8-1(F)  Common Law Marriage

(CT:VISA-863;   06-17-2019)

In the absence of a marriage certificate, an official verification, or a legal brief verifying full marital rights, a common law marriage or cohabitation is considered to be a “valid marriage” for purposes of visa adjudication only if it is legally recognized in the place in which the relationship was created and is fully equivalent in every respect to a traditional marriage.  To be "fully equivalent", the relationship must bestow all of the same legal rights and duties possessed by partners in a lawfully contracted marriage, including that:

 

(1)  The relationship can only be terminated by divorce or death;

(2)  There is a potential right to alimony;

(3)  There is a right to intestate distribution of an estate; and

(4)  There is a right of custody, if there are children.

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1 hour ago, Upnotover said:

A relationship akin to marriage is certainly recognised by UK immigration and I think EEA countries also.

In the UK a couple can get a Civil Partnership, which confers the same rights as a marriage. This is enshrined in statute so is not 'common law'.

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1 hour ago, DaftToPutRealName said:

To make matters even worse - I personally know of several rich Thai-Chinese families who won't sign the marriage certificate; and themselves don't live in an "official" marriage, as it makes things easier when it comes to assets.

Mind you, they live together for 20+ years, have kids, business together etc. 

So in Thailand there doesn't appear to be any gotchas like in the West - don't sign the paper and you aren't married.

Interestingly enough, the youth are smarter than this so now they want the marriage certificate without the ceremony! (Probably googling which one gets them a new passport, hahaha)

Important, it's not only "don't sign the paper and you aren't married".

 

I heard from two independent farangs that they had a marriage ceremony at the village temple with their Thai girlfriend but no official marriage certificate. Nothing signed.

And later pictures from those ceremonies were used to prove that they were married and that they should get divorce payments.

I am no lawyer and I don't know the legal situation but it seem this is a possibility. So be careful even if you don't sign anything. 

 

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Basically because you may have some huge responsibilities back home with a wife The judge was referring to a "settlement" & had ascertained that the relationship in this context ONLY was applicable. In this situation only he is right.

You may be surprised to learn that any land & houses we purchased together , although in my partners name cannot be sold without my approval & signature (as long as I am alive)

which is why I sleep alone behind locked doors 555 & cook for myself

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most countries don't allow common law marriages.  If you are so concerned then why not make it legal in all aspects.  Or are you playing like the blacks in the US.  In the 1960's 2-parent black familie numbered approximately 60%.  the Welfare changed and women were allowed more money per each child they had.  Immediately the numbers of marriages for the blacks dropped and the number of babies increased and today approx 20% only are 2-parent families.  Welfare can destroy relationships and countries.

 

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it's bizarre that you can think you're married, but you're not. i guess some people need to understand thai law and culture before they wed.

 

and true enough in the majority of countries common law marriage is a myth.

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30 minutes ago, samsensam said:

and true enough in the majority of countries common law marriage is a myth.

The great majority of countries don't follow the common law, so that's not surprising.

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