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If account dips below 800000 shortly after Non O-A extension based on retirement


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The OP's dilemma is one reason I went to the 20 year Elite Visa.  As his situation shows, you cannot use that money, or even 5k of that money--even mistakenly, at certain times.  So I figured give them the 800k and another 200k and sleep well.  To each their own.

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12 hours ago, narisarasgroove said:

I was always of the belief that the 800,000 had to be in the bank 3 months before the extension was due and didn't realise that it was a requirement for it to be their 3 months after also. What is the point I ask myself.

We are supposed to have the cash their to show that we can support ourselves, but if you have a need to use it, for instance after a situation that requires immediate financial outlay, you are penalised. Crazy. Or am I missing something.

You got it correct. However, perhaps what you are missing is additional funds.

 

How can someone with a mere 800K retire in a foreign country? If someone does not have 10 times that amount, in addition to a pension, they probably should return to their home country and continue working.

 

I always think of the 800K (or 400K if married) as the ante for staying in Thailand. I would not recommend ever touching the money, even if it is permitted outside the T-3 and T+3 months window when filing for an extension. When you can use the money, the balance should not fall below 400K.

 

No two people are the same, so my opinion may differ from yours, and so be it.

Edited by Gumballl
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26 minutes ago, Gumballl said:

You got it correct. However, perhaps what you are missing is additional funds.

 

How can someone with a mere 800K retire in a foreign country? If someone does not have 10 times that amount, in addition to a pension, they probably should return to their home country and continue working.

 

I always think of the 800K (or 400K if married) as the ante for staying in Thailand. I would not recommend ever touching the money, even if it is permitted outside the T-3 and T+3 months window when filing for an extension. When you can use the money, the balance should not fall below 400K.

 

No two people are the same, so my opinion may differ from yours, and so be it.

There is no T-3....the law was changed to 2 months some time ago.

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You clearly did not do this intentionally. But you are still at risk, so maybe it's time to be creative since you have about 11 months left on your visa. Go deposit money into the account and bring it above the required amount. Do an update on your book using the PUM machine. THEN, 'lose' your bankbook and get a new one which will being with the current balance which is now above the 800k. When they look at your book again in 11 months there will not appear to be any problem. Case solved. Again, this is because you made an honest error and don't want to be held accountable for your mistake.

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3 hours ago, Kelsall said:

The OP's dilemma is one reason I went to the 20 year Elite Visa.  As his situation shows, you cannot use that money, or even 5k of that money--even mistakenly, at certain times.  So I figured give them the 800k and another 200k and sleep well.  To each their own.

You could start to use it if one planned to leave Thailand that year, or switch to a marriage extension, or maybe income qualification.

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48 minutes ago, ehs818 said:

You clearly did not do this intentionally. But you are still at risk, so maybe it's time to be creative since you have about 11 months left on your visa. Go deposit money into the account and bring it above the required amount. Do an update on your book using the PUM machine. THEN, 'lose' your bankbook and get a new one which will being with the current balance which is now above the 800k. When they look at your book again in 11 months there will not appear to be any problem. Case solved. Again, this is because you made an honest error and don't want to be held accountable for your mistake.

I recall Imm. wants a statement (letter) covering the last 12 months.  Bank book alone is not enough.

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In June I had a similar problem at Koh Samui I was 126.79 baht below the 800,000 as the bank had deducted 200 baht commission for my yearly debit card they wouldn’t accept it thankfully I have another Thai Bank Account so they made me go to the bank get my other book updated pay for another letter take them bank to the IO all that trouble for the sake of 127 baht more annoying is the 800,000 had been in all year it had never been drawn down I had realised what had happened less than 48 hours after the commission had been taken out and had placed 500 bht into the account . I hope your IO has more compassion than mine was Good Luck !

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22 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Always safer to keep the 800K in a Fixed Term account (no debit card) than in a Savings account mixed with your expenditures for living expenses.

ABSOLUTELY.

Don't know why it has to be in a fixed term account though. I kept mine in an ordinary account, but never touched it till I was leaving for good..

 

Especially now, given the silly extra impositions designed, IMO, to make it more difficult, if one can't keep the money in a segregated account one is likely to run into problems.

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9 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

In June I had a similar problem at Koh Samui I was 126.79 baht below the 800,000 as the bank had deducted 200 baht commission for my yearly debit card they wouldn’t accept it thankfully I have another Thai Bank Account so they made me go to the bank get my other book updated pay for another letter take them bank to the IO all that trouble for the sake of 127 baht more annoying is the 800,000 had been in all year it had never been drawn down I had realised what had happened less than 48 hours after the commission had been taken out and had placed 500 bht into the account . I hope your IO has more compassion than mine was Good Luck !

It takes a special mindset to be a bureaucrat. Compassion is lacking, IMO.

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2 hours ago, ehs818 said:

You clearly did not do this intentionally. But you are still at risk, so maybe it's time to be creative since you have about 11 months left on your visa. Go deposit money into the account and bring it above the required amount. Do an update on your book using the PUM machine. THEN, 'lose' your bankbook and get a new one which will being with the current balance which is now above the 800k. When they look at your book again in 11 months there will not appear to be any problem. Case solved. Again, this is because you made an honest error and don't want to be held accountable for your mistake.

If I understand correctly he still had over 800k on deposit when other bank accounts are considered so should be OK but will need to show bank book and statements from all relevant accounts when he extends in order to establish that he always had at least 800k on deposit for the required time period.

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45 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

I recall Imm. wants a statement (letter) covering the last 12 months.  Bank book alone is not enough.

That must be your imm. office, unless it's a new rule. Never happened in mine. As you know, different offices make up different rules- the national guidelines are only a base line for the irrelevant, pointless extras they add on. That's why I employed an agent in the end- the office kept inventing stupid rules eg blue pen one year, black pen the next; big photo with blue background one year, different size with white background the next time. I had to assume they really did want to make it difficult, unlike when I first visited LOS when they actually wanted us to come.

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5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That must be your imm. office, unless it's a new rule. Never happened in mine. As you know, different offices make up different rules- the national guidelines are only a base line for the irrelevant, pointless extras they add on. That's why I employed an agent in the end- the office kept inventing stupid rules eg blue pen one year, black pen the next; big photo with blue background one year, different size with white background the next time. I had to assume they really did want to make it difficult, unlike when I first visited LOS when they actually wanted us to come.

The 12-month bank-statement is a recent 'add-on' to the requirements.

The reason IO now requires that 12-month bank-statement is because some banks consolidate the transactions when not regularly updating your bank-book, and as a result IO can not check whether you didn't slip under the 800K/400K tressholds.

Of course that 12-month bank-statement is redundant when you do regularly update your bank-book so that it shows all transactions, but the 12-month bank-statement has now become 'part of the rules' irrespective of whether you update the bank-book regularly or only do one transaction yearly. 

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1 minute ago, Peter Denis said:

The 12-month bank-statement is a recent 'add-on' to the requirements.

The reason IO now requires that 12-month bank-statement is because some banks consolidate the transactions when not regularly updating your bank-book, and as a result IO can not check whether you didn't slip under the 800K/400K tressholds.

Of course that 12-month bank-statement is redundant when you do regularly update your bank-book so that it shows all transactions, but the 12-month bank-statement has now become 'part of the rules' irrespective of whether you update the bank-book regularly or only do one transaction yearly. 

If they are going to do that then just make it mandatory to have the money in a separate account that can't be accessed as along as one wishes to keep renewing an extension. That was a price I was prepared to pay to stay in LOS.

If the law requires the money only part of the year, then how can they legally require a statement for an entire year. No need to answer, as I know they can make up any stupid thing they want and no one can dispute it.

 

However, it's going to cause problems for those that subverted the system by using agents that provided the money for a short time, and that is a good thing, IMO.

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@Peter Denis hey Peter. I have been waiting for some update re you post above. I deal with CW and last year only needed photocopy bank pages along with back letter etc. I rarely update bb. 

It appears now I will also require bank statements for 2 accounts (perhaps not for the FD account). My question how long does it take to obtain statements. I recall they can only do the recent 6 months quickly and the 6 prior to that takes longer.

Also recall it wasn't cheap. Can anyone advise re the process. Ta

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6 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

as a result IO can not check whether you didn't slip under the 800K/400K tressholds.

Which IMO is a nonsense in the first place. The only rational for requiring proof of a certain amount of money can be to ensure that one has enough money to live for a year in LOS. Who cares how long it is in the bank? One either has enough money or one doesn't. Just another example of them making it as difficult as possible to stay in LOS.

It's the same as the barking requirement that one gets a statement on the day of application. If one had the money in the bank for 3 months, does it matter if the statement was from the day before? Of course it doesn't, except in the minds of those that apparently hate expats and want to make it as hard as possible.

I absolutely loathed going to immigration as I never knew what barking requirement they would come up with.

When other posters say that they were told that they can't use black pen when blue is now the colour, and it was black last time, one knows that something is very, very wrong in immigration offices.

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6 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

@Peter Denis hey Peter. I have been waiting for some update re you post above. I deal with CW and last year only needed photocopy bank pages along with back letter etc. I rarely update bb. 

It appears now I will also require bank statements for 2 accounts (perhaps not for the FD account). My question how long does it take to obtain statements. I recall they can only do the recent 6 months quickly and the 6 prior to that takes longer.

Also recall it wasn't cheap. Can anyone advise re the process. Ta

Reading posts like this makes me glad that I left and don't have to comply with their expat hating stupid regulations any more.

No wonder westerners were not going/ staying in LOS as much before Corona struck.

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Just now, DrJack54 said:

@Peter Denis hey Peter. I have been waiting for some update re you post above. I deal with CW and last year only needed photocopy bank pages along with back letter etc. I rarely update bb. 

It appears now I will also require bank statements for 2 accounts (perhaps not for the FD account). My question how long does it take to obtain statements. I recall they can only do the recent 6 months quickly and the 6 prior to that takes longer.

Also recall it wasn't cheap. Can anyone advise re the process. Ta

The 12-month bank statement has to be ordered from the Headquarter of your local bank branche.  That can take up to a week, so the same day bank-documents collection and 1-year extension application is not possible anymore.  You would need to ask your local bank at least 1 week before you are going to do your 1-year extension application to order that 12-month bank statement from bank Headquarters.   

Local bank branches only keep the account-data for 6 months (and then they are transferred to Headquarters) and so they can only provide 6-month bank statements.  Of course you could order a 6-month bank statement in the middle of the year at your local bank and do same when your 1-year extension is due for renewal  Or you might need three of such 6-month statements that are 'overlapping' but ensure that you cover the full 12-months.

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11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Reading posts like this makes me glad that I left and don't have to comply with their expat hating stupid regulations any more.

No wonder westerners were not going/ staying in LOS as much before Corona struck.

To each their own. I love Thailand and appreciate how easy it is to live here. Some people just love to find fault 

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11 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The 12-month bank statement has to be ordered from the Headquarter of your local bank branche.  That can take up to a week, so the same day bank-documents collection and 1-year extension application is not possible anymore.  You would need to ask your local bank at least 1 week before you are going to do your 1-year extension application to order that 12-month bank statement from bank Headquarters.   

Local bank branches only keep the account-data for 6 months (and then they are transferred to Headquarters) and so they can only provide 6-month bank statements.  Of course you could order a 6-month bank statement in the middle of the year at your local bank and do same when your 1-year extension is due for renewal  Or you might need three of such 6-month statements that are 'overlapping' but ensure that you cover the full 12-months.

This really depends on which bank you use ... I use SCB and my local branch here in Bangkok will issue a 12 month bank statement instantly without going through their head office ... I know that Bangkok bank branches will only issue the 12 month statement through their head office hence the delay.

 

You would need to check with your local branch first to get a definitive answer on the time frame for obtaining the 12 month statement from your bank.

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I am using the 65000/month method until my account reaches the 800,000 level.  At my last extension (Udonthani I/O) I discovered that one month last year, due to the time delay and a weekend, although I initiated the transfer in what I thought was enough time, it wasn't posted to my Thai bank account until the second of the following month.  Even though I could document when I initiated it it was disallowed and I was charged an TB18000  "fine" to get my extension.  (THAT) won't happen again!) Suggesting you might face the same or similar situation.

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25 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The 12-month bank statement has to be ordered from the Headquarter of your local bank branche.  That can take up to a week, so the same day bank-documents collection and 1-year extension application is not possible anymore.  You would need to ask your local bank at least 1 week before you are going to do your 1-year extension application to order that 12-month bank statement from bank Headquarters.   

Local bank branches only keep the account-data for 6 months (and then they are transferred to Headquarters) and so they can only provide 6-month ....

 

Not true at all banks.

 

My local branch of Kasikorn had no difficulty providing me a 12 month statement on the spot 

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5 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

people don't have 800k on a bank account, not to be touched, getting almost zero interest, just for immigration ?

 

come on

Of course they do but not zero interest. Normal FD rates. 

 

It is easier than trying to keep track of how much of it you are allowed to spend and when. Especially since you can only ever spend half of it and that, only for 6-7 months of the year.

 

As the OP demonstrates it is easy to slip up and fall below required threshholds if withdrawing from the account used to meet the lump sum requirement.

 

People who don't have 800k  in discretionary  savings would usually do better to use the monthly income method (which has its own hassles unless you are from a country that still issues income letters).

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Bangkok bank passbook update machines  , and presumably others, will print a consolidated entry if you have several transactions over a period of time without updating your passbook. So if you have not updated your book to show that low balance, leave it for a while (3 months, I think?) then update it and it will look as if you had 800k+ all the time.

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18 minutes ago, Udon Tom said:

I am using the 65000/month method until my account reaches the 800,000 level.  At my last extension (Udonthani I/O) I discovered that one month last year, due to the time delay and a weekend, although I initiated the transfer in what I thought was enough time, it wasn't posted to my Thai bank account until the second of the following month.  Even though I could document when I initiated it it was disallowed and I was charged an TB18000  "fine" to get my extension.  (THAT) won't happen again!) Suggesting you might face the same or similar situation.

It would have been cheaper to do a border-run, than paying that BS 18.000 THB fine.

And there are reports of IOs not willing to handle your application in case of not meeting the financial requirements, and telling you to do exactly that.

The border-run scenario simply consists of hopping over the border, then return VisaExempt and then apply for a NEW 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement, and in the last month of those 90 days then apply for the 1-year extension of stay. 

 

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9 minutes ago, MikeN said:

Bangkok bank passbook update machines  , and presumably others, will print a consolidated entry if you have Aseveral transactions over a period of time without updating your passbook. So if you have not updated your book to show that low balance, leave it for a while (3 months, I think?) then update it and it will look as if you had 800k+ all the time.

And that's exactly why Immigration now also requires the 12-month bank statement which will show ALL transactions during the 12 month period.

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Just now, Peter Denis said:

And that's exactly why Immigration now also requires the 12-month bank statement which will show ALL transactions during the 12 month period.

I only used copies of my books in December, at Nonthaburi.  Had them stamp the copies.  And the letter.

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I am wondering what hoops I'll have to jump through when I renew mine in Sept ...I went to my bank to transfer money from one account to another (Same Bank) to top up to 800000 Baht ...  but  the stupid girl at the bank transferred it    wrongly making my visa account drop below 400000 baht ...the mistake was rectify within 3 minutes ,,,but it still  shows in my Bank book that my money dropped  below 400000 baht (if only for 3 minutes)... I have all the receipts to show the times of the rectification of this error .... but I am still expecting aggro when I apply for my next extension ..  

 

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On 8/2/2020 at 9:54 AM, peterdwje2 said:

I did my annual extension last week at CW. Then two days ago I was getting cash to buy something and inadvertently withdrew down to balance of 795,000. I've read I need to keep 800,000 for three months after extension. I will make deposit today to push it back up. But I worry this will cause me problem for next year's extension. Anything I can do to fix this now? Thanks.

Make plans to use an agent for next years extension

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12 minutes ago, banglay said:

I am wondering what hoops I'll have to jump through when I renew mine in Sept ...I went to my bank to transfer money from one account to another (Same Bank) to top up to 800000 Baht ...  but  the stupid girl at the bank transferred it    wrongly making my visa account drop below 400000 baht ...the mistake was rectify within 3 minutes ,,,but it still  shows in my Bank book that my money dropped  below 400000 baht (if only for 3 minutes)... I have all the receipts to show the times of the rectification of this error .... but I am still expecting aggro when I apply for my next extension ..  

 

See post #59 above.

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