Thai Resident

[Selwyn]

Hi, 

I am living in Thailand, on a retirement extension of stay visa. I was asked a question, am I a Thai resident.

So am I classed as a Thai resident?

The reason for this question is, I am a non-resident citizen of the UK so I don't pay tax on Dividends from uk companies. 

Thai rules state, if I am a non-resident in Thailand I don't need to file a tax return. If I am a Thai resident I have to file a tax return and pay tax on any income.

[dimitriv]

36 minutes ago, Selwyn said:

I have to file a tax return and pay tax on any income.

 

I've read that this is not so. You do not have to pay tax on foreign income if the income is brought into the country in the year after you received it. So if you have dividends and keep them on a UK bank account till january the next year you do not have to pay anything.

 

This was how I understood it. It can be smart to get professional advice if you worry.

 

Apart from laws and regulations, I do not believe that the Thai tax authorities can find out how much income you receive from abroad.

 

 

[glegolo]

For me as a swede, we have a double-tax-agreement in place with Thailand, saying that; where ever I earn my money, that is where I pay my taxes.... 

Dont you  as an english citizen, have such an agreement as well...??

 

glegolo

[jackdd]

44 minutes ago, Selwyn said:

So am I classed as a Thai resident?

Not in general, but if you spend more than 180 days a year in Thailand you are considered resident for tax purposes.

[Selwyn]

Ok Thanks for your help. Yes it is the same as Sweden but income payed in dividends from the UK, as a Non Res citizen, is exempt from tax.

I think, as you advise, seek professional help

[4MyEgo]

9 minutes ago, Selwyn said:

Ok Thanks for your help. Yes it is the same as Sweden but income payed in dividends from the UK, as a Non Res citizen, is exempt from tax.

I think, as you advise, seek professional help

I am an Australian citizen and live here in Thailand as a non-resident, and invest in the Australian Stock Exchange.

 

No tax is payable back home or here as the dividends that I am paid are fully franked, i.e. the tax has already been taken out before I receive my return on investment, so I have never paid tax here and don't believe I have to pay tax here, that would be double dipping, however if the share that I invested in wasn't fully franked, i.e. tax not taken out of when the dividend was paid, I would have to pay the tax back home, and as far as I recall, it has nothing to do with Thailand as far as my accountant has advised me.

 

The above said, I make sure my shares are fully franked, just in case I would also have to pay tax here as I would back home, besides going fully franked means I don't have to do a tax return which saves me going through the BS ????

 

[MRToMRT]

You are OK. You are non tax resident both in UK and Thailand. Dimitriv is correct about the 1 year for importing overseas income into Thailand. 

 

I had a similar question so went to the Tax office (Thailand) to see if I could get a tax ID number. Described my situation (UK  & retired) and they told me I "could not have a tax ID" unless I intended to have earnings from within Thailand.

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

38 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

You are OK. You are non tax resident both in UK and Thailand. Dimitriv is correct about the 1 year for importing overseas income into Thailand. 

 

I had a similar question so went to the Tax office (Thailand) to see if I could get a tax ID number. Described my situation (UK  & retired) and they told me I "could not have a tax ID" unless I intended to have earnings from within Thailand.

 

 

I am a retired U.K. citizen in Thailand, I got my tax number recently, I have claimed back the interest on my bank account. So you were given incorrect information.

[MRToMRT]

23 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I am a retired U.K. citizen in Thailand, I got my tax number recently, I have claimed back the interest on my bank account. So you were given incorrect information.

Interesting. Do you have to file a tax return each year?

[sencelebi]

You are not a Thai resident. You don't have to pay tax. I do  have rental incomes from USA and transfer them here in to Thailand every month and I don't pay taxes. 

[sencelebi]

18 hours ago, jackdd said:

Not in general, but if you spend more than 180 days a year in Thailand you are considered resident for tax purposes.

Not necessarily. If he doesn't earn any income in Thailand he will not be required to pay tax from overseas income. No matter what, he is not a Thai resident. In order to be a Thai resident he has to have the Thai resident card which is retires can not get it. But if you go to the tax office or whatever it's called and insist paying tax then they will not say no, they will happily take the money.

[Oldie]

13 minutes ago, sencelebi said:

Not necessarily. If he doesn't earn any income in Thailand he will not be required to pay tax from overseas income. No matter what, he is not a Thai resident. In order to be a Thai resident he has to have the Thai resident card which is retires can not get it. But if you go to the tax office or whatever it's called and insist paying tax then they will not say no, they will happily take the money.

As far as I know this is not correct. If you are here more than 180 days you have to pay taxes. If you transfer your income in the same year you earned it to Thailand you will have to pay taxes. Take for instance a pension you transfer every month to your Thai account. 

 

Read here too

 

https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Payroll/Personal-Income-Tax

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Oldie

[PETERTHEEATER]

19 hours ago, glegolo said:

For me as a swede, we have a double-tax-agreement in place with Thailand, saying that; where ever I earn my money, that is where I pay my taxes.... 

Dont you  as an english citizen, have such an agreement as well...??

 

glegolo

Yes.

[Paul DS]

You maybe Non Resident for Tax Purposes, but your domicile is as per passport, ie UK Resident for Domicile, that would only change if you gave up your right of abode in the UK and had Domicile / passport in another country.

[sidgy]

i have some shares on the SET and the dividend payments are tax deducted 10%

The Thai Tax ID number it states is just my UK passport number

If it is necessary/makes things easier for you to have a Thai tax ID, perhaps just invest a few thousand Bht on the SET so you will be issued an official number

Hope this is of use to you 

Edited August 3, 2020 by sidgy
misspelling

[sometimewoodworker]

24 minutes ago, Paul DS said:

You maybe Non Resident for Tax Purposes, but your domicile is as per passport, ie UK Resident for Domicile, that would only change if you gave up your right of abode in the UK and had Domicile / passport in another country.

You are not correct 

www.gov.uk says

Quote

Working out your domicile

Your domicile’s usually the country your father considered his permanent home when you were born. It may have changed if you moved abroad and you do not intend to return.

 So I am a U.K. citizen, non-resident, not ordinarily resident and non domiciled in the U.K. and paying U.K. tax, I have the right to live there if I wish.

[Almer]

I seem to think a Retirement visa gives  you the "Alien" stamp

[Mavideol]

20 hours ago, jackdd said:

Not in general, but if you spend more than 180 days a year in Thailand you are considered resident for tax purposes.

ONLY for tax purposes, not immigration or any other government office, for immigration we are still considered as "guests" they can kick us out any time

[topt]

21 hours ago, Selwyn said:

If I am a Thai resident I have to file a tax return and pay tax on any income.

I sometimes wonder if posters ever search for previous threads and take any note of them. This is from just over a month ago but the subject seems to come up with breathtaking regularity.......

 

[khunPer]

22 hours ago, Selwyn said:

I am living in Thailand, on a retirement extension of stay visa. I was asked a question, am I a Thai resident.

So am I classed as a Thai resident?

The reason for this question is, I am a non-resident citizen of the UK so I don't pay tax on Dividends from uk companies. 

Thai rules state, if I am a non-resident in Thailand I don't need to file a tax return. If I am a Thai resident I have to file a tax return and pay tax on any income.

There is a major difference between being a resident, and a tax resident; you are the latter if you stay more than 183 days in Thailand.

 

Being a tax resident in Thailand you fully are income taxable to Thailand; however, you will have some special rules being a British citizen in accordance with the Double Taxation Agreement (DTA) between Britain and Thailand.

 

You can find the DTA here, and you better check where you are taxable of this and that, including any retirement pension, and dividends from stocks.

 

You can find information about Thai personal income tax here.

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

Interesting. Do you have to file a tax return each year?

To get your refund, yes.

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

You are OK. You are non tax resident both in UK and Thailand. Dimitriv is correct about the 1 year for importing overseas income into Thailand. 

 

I had a similar question so went to the Tax office (Thailand) to see if I could get a tax ID number. Described my situation (UK  & retired) and they told me I "could not have a tax ID" unless I intended to have earnings from within Thailand.

"...earnings from within Thailand" include foreign income transferred into Thailand same year as it's earned.

 

You need to check the Double Taxation Agreement, which would specify tax on different types foreign earnings, including both tax on dividends, capital gain (from for example stock trade), and retirement pension...????

[khunPer]

2 hours ago, sencelebi said:

Not necessarily. If he doesn't earn any income in Thailand he will not be required to pay tax from overseas income. No matter what, he is not a Thai resident. In order to be a Thai resident he has to have the Thai resident card which is retires can not get it. But if you go to the tax office or whatever it's called and insist paying tax then they will not say no, they will happily take the money.

That is not correct, it's depending if any foreign income is transferred into Thailand during the same calendar year as it's earned.

 

Retirees can certainly have a Thai tax ID (TIN) – I have one, and I've only stayed in Thailand on extensions based on ritirement – but you need to show proof of taxable income to get a TIN.

[Letseng]

21 hours ago, dimitriv said:

 

I've read that this is not so. You do not have to pay tax on foreign income if the income is brought into the country in the year after you received it. So if you have dividends and keep them on a UK bank account till january the next year you do not have to pay anything.

 

This was how I understood it. It can be smart to get professional advice if you worry.

 

Apart from laws and regulations, I do not believe that the Thai tax authorities can find out how much income you receive from abroad.

 

 

There is the 183 day presence which makes you in theory liable for tax. You will never be a resident in the meaning of the word. 

[Thingamabob]

Total confusion. 

[Oldie]

44 minutes ago, topt said:

I sometimes wonder if posters ever search for previous threads and take any note of them. This is from just over a month ago but the subject seems to come up with breathtaking regularity.......

 

Yes and on top of it many simply make assumptions that have nothing to do with reality and sell this as advice. This thread that you mentioned here has some good information. 

[khunPer]

21 hours ago, glegolo said:

For me as a swede, we have a double-tax-agreement in place with Thailand, saying that; where ever I earn my money, that is where I pay my taxes.... 

Dont you  as an english citizen, have such an agreement as well...??

 

glegolo

That is unfortunately not fully correct, you should read the DTA between Sweden and Thailand. It for example says...

Quote

Dividends paid by a company which is a resident of a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State may be taxed in that other State.

[ ... ]

Interest arising in a Contracting State and paid to a resident of the other Contracting State may be taxed in that other State.

[ ... ]

Royalties arising in a Contracting State and paid to a resident of the other Contracting State may be taxed in that other State.

[ ... ]

Gains derived by a resident of a Contracting State from the alienation of immovable property referred to in Article 6 and situated in the other Contracting State may be taxed in that other State.

Source: DTA between Sweden and Thailand.

[khunPer]

2 hours ago, sidgy said:

i have some shares on the SET and the dividend payments are tax deducted 10%

The Thai Tax ID number it states is just my UK passport number

If it is necessary/makes things easier for you to have a Thai tax ID, perhaps just invest a few thousand Bht on the SET so you will be issued an official number

Hope this is of use to you 

Yes, you foreign pasport number is used for SET-registration. You don't to do any further for SET stock holdings, as you if you do no further the 10 percent withholding tax on dividends is the final tax. Capital gains from SET listed stocks are free from income tax.

[ericthai]

3 hours ago, Letseng said:

There is the 183 day presence which makes you in theory liable for tax. You will never be a resident in the meaning of the word. 

why do you say that? a person can get permanent residency in Thailand and also can apply for citizenship (if the meet that qualifications).

[Max69xl]

On 8/2/2020 at 9:03 PM, jackdd said:

Not in general, but if you spend more than 180 days a year in Thailand you are considered resident for tax purposes.

Not when it comes to income based on retirement. You pay taxes where the pension was earned. UK must have a double taxation agreement with Thailand. Some countries in Europe have agreements with Thailand since the late 70's.