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Are Thailand's coronavirus numbers too good to be true?

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1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Obviously testing approaches need to differ in countries with large and rising numbers of cases than in countries with very little or none. The US needs more (and equally important more rapid in terms of results) testing at this stage of its epidemic. Thailand does not.

That's correct. What Thailand needs right now is speed, not bulk. Tests must be available within an hour in case of suspected infection, results must be in within 4h and tracing if positive must kick in immediately and be done within a day. They don't have it, so must remain closed. And if there is a major outbreak, then bulk will also be needed (capacity is likely around 6-7k tests/day currently - there haven't been many updates about it lately).

 

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-how-to-do-testing-and-contact-tracing-bde85b64072e

0*wrTc-aWVRCCtgEs2

 

This thing can't be stopped, but it can be managed. Thais don't exactly excel in management.

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9 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

"On at least four occasions in the last week, we've had to smash the windows of cars and pull people out to provide details because they weren't adhering to the Chief Health Officer's guidelines, they weren't providing their name and address."

A quote from the link above.

 

This is what has beyond a joke!Remember these are "the Chief Health Officer's guidelines",they are guidelines yet they must apparently be enforced,with physical violence if deemed necessary and none of these "guidelines" have had the benefit of going through a parliamentary process.They are the made up nonsense of some knobheaded politician who is basing his decisions on nobody knows what!It made me sick to watch him give his "heart felt condolences" to the families of those that had died when no such heart felt outpouring of emotions were ever expressed to the 1100 families in 2017 or the 900 families of those that died in from the flu,nor were such extreme measures undertaken to save the lives of those that died.Where is the consistency,and are we going to continue with these types of measures to combat viral infections from now on?Is this the new normal we are being forced to accept or suffer the brutal consequences of? 1984 was supposed to be a work of fiction not a manual for maniacs!   

It's basically fear. Some people are so terrified of this virus they cling to any straw which gives them a bit of comfort, like a comfort blanket. Never mind that top scientists have looked at the evidence and concluded masks have no benefit, never mind that MIT found social distancing of 2 metres is not enough as aerosol droplets spread far wider, never mind that lockdowns have not worked.

 

Like this Tedros from the WHO they want to throw everything at the virus, whatever it is, regardless of whether there is any scientific basis. Just because they're so terrified.

 

If people are so terrified they should just stay at home. But unfortunately, all over the world politicians are giving in to the demands of the stupid sizeable minority who demand these idiotic measures, as politicians tend to do. Placate public opinion and special interest groups.

 

I just hope Thailand won't go the way of Singapore, which was touted as a model for the Covid response at one point, but then due to increasing numbers of cases decided to target all "outsiders" because of course only outsiders bring the virus, it's not spread by Singaporeans. This xenophobic development could take place in Thailand, once the real figures come out or God forbid a second wave hits Thailand.

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2 hours ago, Logosone said:

All indications now seem to point to a very low rate of infection in virtually every single country, bar a handful of exceptions.

 

Witness Iceland's testing of its general population, which was far greater than that of any other country, and which found that 0.8% of the population were infected. Much lower, than many thought.

 

I don't think Tedros' exhortations to "Do it all" are helpful, as it implies governments too should then do it all and impose futile lockdowns. Testing and isolating, yes of course, but clearly this blind passion to "do it all" has been part of the problem. 

 

This pandemic needs a more nuanced and intelligent approach. Many of the measures governments have put in place have been shown to be unnecessary and counterproductive.

 

It is not necessary to "do it all". It just necessary to do what is required and is the right thing to do.

 

In order to know what that is, proper testing figures are important. Blanket lockdowns and masks are not.

 

Blanket lockdowns was not mentioned in my post but regardless I disagree entirely with all your points, no surprise there.

 

As for those wretched mask wearers, WHO yesterday announced:

 

"This week, we’re also launching a mask challenge with partners from around the world and we’re encouraging people to send in photos of themselves wearing a mask.

As well as being one of the key tools to stop the virus, the mask has come to represent solidarity.

Like the Safe Hands and Healthy-at-home challenges, we’re going to be spreading further positive messages about how everyone has a role to play in breaking chains of transmission."

 

I already know you'll be aghast at this so feel free to ignore the post.

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1 hour ago, FarFlungFalang said:

This is a story of how some Ozzies are reacting to to Covid-19 restrictions both for law enforcement and against.I ask is all this really necessary?

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-04/victoria-police-concerned-sovereign-citizens-amid-mask-assault/12522332

Indeed there's extremes on every side of the spectrum, unity is whats required, its a sad world.

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16 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Indeed there's extremes on every side of the spectrum, unity is whats required, its a sad world.

What I feel most is that it the world may get much more sadderer.I've banged on a lot about how much worse the flu has proven to be in the past than what Sars Cov 2 has so far proven to be and how much they have in common,sure they are not exactly the same,they don't say "if you have flu like symptoms" for no reason.They question I keep raising is will this be the "new normal" response to future "flu like" outbreaks in the flu seasons that follow?Where the police smash car windows and drag bodies from cars because they didn't wash their hands enough as recommended by the "health guidelines"?Seems like it might be.  

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1 hour ago, dastakantattaka said:

What advantages? I have many:

 

More trust from the citizens.

Absense of critisism.

Absense of potensial protests.

Absense of fear, from citizens, of going back to work.

Ability to justify, of the government, any measures against the virus. And new ways of spending money of the tax payers.

Plenty of tourists, who are sure that Thailand is safe, flocking back that otherwise may not be willing to return once borders are open

Being viewed as "excellent example of how to fight the virus" from other countries.

 

"Can infected patients be hidden in public hospitals?" ---> Yes. Don't report them to the world, report only domestically at best -- they get hidden.

 

LOL

So easy to get over the COVID-19 pandemic!

Just wondering why any country even took any notice - LOL

How many days or weeks would it take for the bubble to burst and disprove your expert opinion?

eg. when hospital capacities are overwhelmed? Dead bodies pile up? Keep on hiding?

LOL

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8 minutes ago, Logosone said:

I've never seen a non-mask wearer going up to a mask-wearer and say "you should take that off".

 

I have seen mask wearers get a Thai man arrested because he was not wearing a mask.

 

I have not seen anybody relaxed about social distancing pulling someone closer and say "you really should come closer".

 

I have seen an irate fat British woman driver scream obscenities at a British driver to "keep social distancing" with his car.

 

It seems clear that the extremist, zealot fanaticism is all coming from one side, the maskers and social distancers. 

 

Relaxed and fearless people don't act like terrified and fearful people do.

 

 

 

I am not sure what the point of your post is........ other than to reinforce your stance against mask wearing.

 

 

It is about right and wrong. A non mask wearer would never be in the right to suggest that someone removes a mask - a pointless comparison. A mask wearer would never be wrong for telling someone to wear a mask if they are in an area where the law/proprietor requires it.

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11 minutes ago, Logosone said:

I've never seen a non-mask wearer going up to a mask-wearer and say "you should take that off".

 

I have seen mask wearers get a Thai man arrested because he was not wearing a mask.

 

I have not seen anybody relaxed about social distancing pulling someone closer and say "you really should come closer".

 

I have seen an irate fat British woman driver scream obscenities at a British driver to "keep social distancing" with his car.

 

It seems clear that the extremist, zealot fanaticism is all coming from one side, the maskers and social distancers. 

 

Relaxed and fearless people don't act like terrified and fearful people do.

Oh dear you sound fearful

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15 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

 

I am not sure what the point of your post is........ other than to reinforce your stance against mask wearing.

 

 

It is about right and wrong. A non mask wearer would never be in the right to suggest that someone removes a mask - a pointless comparison. A mask wearer would never be wrong for telling someone to wear a mask if they are in an area where the law/proprietor requires it.

The point was to take issue with Bkk Brian's relativising of the savagery of mask and social distancing zealots and fanatics, evidence of which was adduced by another poster above. In reply he casually relativised it by saying there were extremes on both sides.

 

However, people who do not wear masks have not been caught on camera hounding fellow citizens not to wear a mask. Not even in places were masks are not compulsory. We just let the fools wear their face nappies if they so please, their problem. However, violent extremism, when it has surfaced, invariably emanates from the camp of the mask zealots, social distancing zealots. Because they are the frightened fearful souls and their fear makes them behave in the extreme way they do.

 

It's not, as Bkk Brian implied, found on both sides. It's found on one side only.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/woman-threatens-man-car-social-distancing-video-a9631831.html

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20 minutes ago, Logosone said:

The point was to take issue with Bkk Brian's relativising of the savagery of mask and social distancing zealots and fanatics, evidence of which was adduced by another poster above. In reply he casually relativised it by saying there were extremes on both sides.

 

However, people who do not wear masks have not been caught on camera hounding fellow citizens not to wear a mask. Not even in places were masks are not compulsory. We just let the fools wear their face nappies if they so please, their problem. However, violent extremism, when it has surfaced, invariably emanates from the camp of the mask zealots, social distancing zealots. Because they are the frightened fearful souls and their fear makes them behave in the extreme way they do.

 

It's not, as Bkk Brian implied, found on both sides. It's found on one side only.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/woman-threatens-man-car-social-distancing-video-a9631831.html

I wasn't responding to you, I was responding to the poster, who unlike you replied with a sensible take on his perspective, of which I'll be replying soon.

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2 hours ago, Logosone said:

Mask zealots are going insane and are out of control. This happens all over the world. There was a report in the UK where a woman in a car got hysterical and told someone to keep "social distancing" with his car.

 

We can not let the fools run the asylum. We need to be vigilant against mask or lockdown extremists, many of whom, are frankly insane or plain idiots.

 

We know from history that Australians were also less affected in the great flu pandemic. This has to do with geography and other factors, above all Australia's excellent testing efforts. Not so much with lockdown.

 

I actually thinking wearing masks is fairly sensible. It is low cost and results in no one losing their jobs. 

 

Lockdowns is another thing - does enormous damage, ruining far more lives than it saves.

 

IMO you need to pick your fights. These anti-maskers are just as zealous as the pro-maskers. There are more important things to fight over and the fight over masks distracts from the real damage lockdowns are doing.

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1 hour ago, FarFlungFalang said:

What I feel most is that it the world may get much more sadderer.I've banged on a lot about how much worse the flu has proven to be in the past than what Sars Cov 2 has so far proven to be and how much they have in common,sure they are not exactly the same,they don't say "if you have flu like symptoms" for no reason.They question I keep raising is will this be the "new normal" response to future "flu like" outbreaks in the flu seasons that follow?Where the police smash car windows and drag bodies from cars because they didn't wash their hands enough as recommended by the "health guidelines"?Seems like it might be.  

I've not noticed your posts where you've stated you believe covid to be similar to the flu. I don't see it that way sorry. I'm going by what the health professionals are saying, at least the majority of them. However I agree that there is a real risk it will never fully go away even with a vaccine. If that is the case how will outbreaks be handled in the future, many months or years from now, the same way?

 

I hope not, I hope by then together with the vaccine that there will be a range of therapeutic drugs that can be taken to take away the worst symptoms and so lead to far less hospitalizations. If that is the case then yes it may turn out to be comparable to a new flu that the world has to deal with but without the lockdowns and more extreme measures that we have seen now. Thats my hope anyway.

 

Certainly the extreme behaviors from opposing groups should also then be quashed. Both are deplorable, the far right protests against lockdown in the US were another example along with the white supremacists. Hateful stuff.

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12 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I've not noticed your posts where you've stated you believe covid to be similar to the flu. I don't see it that way sorry. I'm going by what the health professionals are saying, at least the majority of them. However I agree that there is a real risk it will never fully go away even with a vaccine. If that is the case how will outbreaks be handled in the future, many months or years from now, the same way?

 

I hope not, I hope by then together with the vaccine that there will be a range of therapeutic drugs that can be taken to take away the worst symptoms and so lead to far less hospitalizations. If that is the case then yes it may turn out to be comparable to a new flu that the world has to deal with but without the lockdowns and more extreme measures that we have seen now. Thats my hope anyway.

 

Certainly the extreme behaviors from opposing groups should also then be quashed. Both are deplorable, the far right protests against lockdown in the US were another example along with the white supremacists. Hateful stuff.

 

People have a right to their opinions and to protest, and people have the right to oppose lockdowns. I don't agree with the far right but I also don't agree with lockdowns - the number of lives ruined through job losses far outweighs any lives saved.

 

I'd much rather see masks as compulsory, work from home also strongly encouraged - sensible measures. Trying to lockdown to stop the spread is nuts. Can't be stopped.

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1 hour ago, ravip said:

LOL

So easy to get over the COVID-19 pandemic!

Just wondering why any country even took any notice - LOL

How many days or weeks would it take for the bubble to burst and disprove your expert opinion?

eg. when hospital capacities are overwhelmed? Dead bodies pile up? Keep on hiding?

LOL

Yeah...LOL!

Too funny!

Maybe...just maybe...some countries are not totallitarian regimes with emergency decrees in effect and a press that is merely a couch- pet to the government!

 

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