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100 billion baht rescue package for Thai tourism mooted - foreign tourists wanted before year's end

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16 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

If the goal is here to maintaining zero new virus carriers then simply do not allow people to enter from abroad.

If they really care to safe lives without hurting their economical situation then Ban nationwide the sales of cigarettes.

Add to that enforce traffic laws, enforce the wearing of crash hats, seat belts, child safety seats in cars, serious penalties for drink-driving, the list is endless.

The government have the population scared to death over Covid why they do a similar exercise with motoring offences ?

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17 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

This is the third time i have posted this, but it is still quite relevant.

 

I think it is time for Thailand to re-evaluate its Virus Response policy.

 
Thailand has been following a 'Zero-Tolerance' policy, but I think it is time to move to a 'Managed-Tolerance' policy. I make this suggestion based mainly on two factors; I think it is inevitable that the virus will return to Thailand and a calm, managed response is more effective than hysteria. Secondly, the economic damage being done to millions is more harmful than the virus itself and needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.
 
We recently saw new cases in Vietnam, and I think that we are going to see new cases in Thailand soon; like most people I take the government's claim of zero cases with a grain of salt, although it seems like they have done a very good job overall. However, I don't think it can last. A better policy is to prepare, both medically and in terms of public opinion/education, for the return of the virus. Is this a radical idea? No, not really. Members will recall the phrase "flatten the curve", but perhaps a reminder is needed that the idea is to manage the virus so that the health system isn't overwhelmed; a policy of Zero Tolerance is incompatible with an open society and/or open economy. It is time to re-enforce the precautions needed, but also to allow for an economic re-start which includes outsiders/foreigners. A final point; humanity's best minds and a boat-load of resources are being thrown at the problem. This global effort, propelled by the power of competition, is expected to produce a vaccine either this year or early next year while treatments are being developed and refined daily; we as a species are going to beat this scourge, and relatively soon.
 
The economic damage being done to Thailand is immense. Yes, I know that we don't hear about it too much, but there is a reason for that. The people talking in the (not quite free) Media are almost all in a 'Virus-Proof' economic situation; they aren't directly affected so they don't feel the urgency of fixing the problem. Firm numbers are difficult to come by, but it seems around 6-9 million Thais are very badly hurt by the economic fall-out of the virus, and those people need to be both helped and heard. The damage done to these people is egregious and growing worse; some government support is being withdrawn, the option of 'Go Back to the Farm' isn't really possible anymore (and not a great idea regardless), and they will soon need more food and rent support to survive. Further, many aren't well-educated and don't have transferable skills, so their options are limited. Finally, even before Covid-19, their economic situation was in decline; it is in free-fall now and they can't be ignored. Simply put, plans for their economic regeneration must to be formulated now and implemented soon.
 
When people are hungry, all bets are off.
 
How to proceed?
 
It is the beginning of August; continue/speed up the current repatriation policy 'as is', but ramp up the public education aspect of change. Announce that by October 1st (perhaps Nov. 1st?) that the airspace around Thailand will be open to commercial air travel, long-term tourists (Snow-Birds who 'winter' here), remaining residents and retirees will be allowed to return with a few restrictions (test before boarding or on arrival, reasonable insurance, self-isolation at home on arrival, etc. BUT no mandatory state quarantine), implement common sense visa issuance (sorry Floridians and Texans!) and most of all prepare the Thai people for the idea that although there will be cases of the virus, they will be managed, and the benefits of re-opening are a risk worth taking. Yes, the end of mandatory state quarantine is essential if this is going to work; I believe that the long-term visitors will respect the self-isolation policy and Thailand's million strong public health volunteers can monitor them, but they won't come if they are going to be locked up. Moreover, the selection of the residents/retirees and 'Snow-Birds' as an initial group isn't accidental; these people already know the Kingdom and understand life within it, are good 'testers' of a new system, have a lot of money to spend, and can be excellent examples of a working policy of re-opening. Finally, allowing these kinds of visitors would build confidence, test whether short-term tourists could actually visit (I think not yet, but...), and help protect the tourism infrastructure from further and/or irreparable damage.
 
There are those who will argue that it is better to keep the borders closed and wait this out, and I honestly have trouble arguing against that idea (I don't want to catch the <deleted> thing). However, those who make that point rarely take the next step; what do you do with the 6-9 million people damaged by the current policy? Will those that advocate for closed borders take in homeless people? If so, how many? One family? Two families? Three? Will those that advocate for closed borders give up a percentage of their salaries/pensions to help? If so, how much? 25%? 35%? 45%? Will those that advocate for closed borders pay school fees and related costs for all the children of unemployed/underemployed parents? How many kids? One? Five? Twenty? The question isn't merely an intellectual exercise, it has real-world implications and consequences. 
 
If you want those 6-9 million people to sacrifice for you, what are you going to sacrifice for them?
 
To sum up, I think that the question of whether or not to keep the border closed is incomplete. The question should be: if you keep the border closed, then what will you do for the 6-9 million people economically-eviscerated by the response to the virus? Opening the Kingdom to visitors in November for the high season would likely see a few cases of the virus, but the Thai medical system can handle that (it did before, right?) until a vaccine is widely available. It would begin the process of re-starting the tourism industry in Thailand (20% of GDP!!!), begin the process of building trust again, re-start the employment of huge numbers, give Thailand a 'leg up' on future tourism business in the region, and alleviate some of the damage done to the poorest in the Kingdom. The alternative is a policy of rot, idleness, atrophy and decline with an indefinite timeline. 
 
History is replete with examples of people hiding behind walls for protection, but it rarely ever works (especially against something the size of a virus); see the 'Maginot Line', the Great Wall of China, the Berlin Wall, and more. History shows that a combination of pro-active tactics coupled with reasonable, layered defenses provides a better outcome to almost any problem.
 
The question is; is anyone listening? Or are public officials just spewing nonsense to get their name in the paper?
 
I've given you an outline on what and how to do it; can you take it from here?
 
 
 

greet article... your style is very diplomatic.

And sure, they do a very good job to not test too much, this way they not see the reality of infected people in Thailand and how many death concerned. I think not so much than other country were population show to be more open and who fight more to hold job done and economy to not fall on the floor, but the numbers of infected people and death relation is out of any possible logic. there is also 2500 death (around) more than last year... But no foreigner tourists in visit.

How can it be possible ? If the police would investigate on this, they would said it is suspicious.

 

Well, it is in fact more than suspicious, it is a proof that if there is no test, there is no infected people revealed, but if death of people is growing suddenly in a world pandemic situation in a country there is not to much test to apply, then it is because the pandemic virus in concern is there, same than every where around the world. how deep ? Who know ? no one, but it is there already.

 

Now i start to suspect that because of these restrictions with high cost (5 stars hotels, and all this show time, facts that cheap workers soon very welcome in the same time...), they are (on the top of the brain system) thinking to get money from selected high VIP population around the world and try to make them thinking that Thailand has close to no case in there (and in the same time, use poor foreigner population to make the dirty job at best price... then there, never mind the COVID...).

 

Do they think really rich people are dumb (i think they can be terribly psychopathic for some of them, but not more stupid than every body) ?

 

I'm thinking that, because i think that to be anywhere around the world on a kind of top level of any tower (even if we are born inside this top level room), we can not stay there and in the same time be to much an idiot.

But it is very possible to think that other are so stupid.

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18 hours ago, webfact said:

Under this plan only those from countries deemed to have the virus under control would be allowed entry and they would then be subject to quarantine and severe restrictions on where they are allowed to go

 

18 hours ago, webfact said:

Countries that would be eligible were China, Taiwan, the US and those in Europe,

So that's a non-starter then .

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Taiwan i can understand.

however US? One of the country with highest death/ infected number, china ... (we all know too many stories there)

EU - Russia, UK, Spain are all up there with numbers..

I definitely want help for the hotel sector however as to who to allow in i hope PM will evaluate again.

if uk, Spain are unable to control their citizens in their countries what makes us think they will listen here?

china had to impose Marshall law to control the people to prevent further spread, can they really observe the authorities stated law when they are here?? 

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18 hours ago, chrisinth said:

They are living the dream. Until quarantine is removed from the equation nothing is going to happen in any sort of numbers.

 

If they do remove the quarantine restrictions, they will change the safety of the Thai population to an unacceptable level. They need to beliefs to the fore that Thailand is the centre of the world. But also understand that they are surrounded by the same world, and if they open their doors, all the bad in relation to covid has the potential to seep in.

 

Don't push your luck.

 

IMO, if they take shortcuts on this tourism mess, it will all end in tears. 

To them there is only one world and that ends at the Thai border.

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20 hours ago, johng said:

Dirty foreigners,  please come back all is forgiven !

Expats we'll drop the TM30 so you can move around freely and spend your money... 
 

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20 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

This is the third time i have posted this, but it is still quite relevant.

 

I think it is time for Thailand to re-evaluate its Virus Response policy.

 
Thailand has been following a 'Zero-Tolerance' policy, but I think it is time to move to a 'Managed-Tolerance' policy. I make this suggestion based mainly on two factors; I think it is inevitable that the virus will return to Thailand and a calm, managed response is more effective than hysteria. Secondly, the economic damage being done to millions is more harmful than the virus itself and needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.
 
We recently saw new cases in Vietnam, and I think that we are going to see new cases in Thailand soon; like most people I take the government's claim of zero cases with a grain of salt, although it seems like they have done a very good job overall. However, I don't think it can last. A better policy is to prepare, both medically and in terms of public opinion/education, for the return of the virus. Is this a radical idea? No, not really. Members will recall the phrase "flatten the curve", but perhaps a reminder is needed that the idea is to manage the virus so that the health system isn't overwhelmed; a policy of Zero Tolerance is incompatible with an open society and/or open economy. It is time to re-enforce the precautions needed, but also to allow for an economic re-start which includes outsiders/foreigners. A final point; humanity's best minds and a boat-load of resources are being thrown at the problem. This global effort, propelled by the power of competition, is expected to produce a vaccine either this year or early next year while treatments are being developed and refined daily; we as a species are going to beat this scourge, and relatively soon.
 
The economic damage being done to Thailand is immense. Yes, I know that we don't hear about it too much, but there is a reason for that. The people talking in the (not quite free) Media are almost all in a 'Virus-Proof' economic situation; they aren't directly affected so they don't feel the urgency of fixing the problem. Firm numbers are difficult to come by, but it seems around 6-9 million Thais are very badly hurt by the economic fall-out of the virus, and those people need to be both helped and heard. The damage done to these people is egregious and growing worse; some government support is being withdrawn, the option of 'Go Back to the Farm' isn't really possible anymore (and not a great idea regardless), and they will soon need more food and rent support to survive. Further, many aren't well-educated and don't have transferable skills, so their options are limited. Finally, even before Covid-19, their economic situation was in decline; it is in free-fall now and they can't be ignored. Simply put, plans for their economic regeneration must to be formulated now and implemented soon.
 
When people are hungry, all bets are off.
 
How to proceed?
 
It is the beginning of August; continue/speed up the current repatriation policy 'as is', but ramp up the public education aspect of change. Announce that by October 1st (perhaps Nov. 1st?) that the airspace around Thailand will be open to commercial air travel, long-term tourists (Snow-Birds who 'winter' here), remaining residents and retirees will be allowed to return with a few restrictions (test before boarding or on arrival, reasonable insurance, self-isolation at home on arrival, etc. BUT no mandatory state quarantine), implement common sense visa issuance (sorry Floridians and Texans!) and most of all prepare the Thai people for the idea that although there will be cases of the virus, they will be managed, and the benefits of re-opening are a risk worth taking. Yes, the end of mandatory state quarantine is essential if this is going to work; I believe that the long-term visitors will respect the self-isolation policy and Thailand's million strong public health volunteers can monitor them, but they won't come if they are going to be locked up. Moreover, the selection of the residents/retirees and 'Snow-Birds' as an initial group isn't accidental; these people already know the Kingdom and understand life within it, are good 'testers' of a new system, have a lot of money to spend, and can be excellent examples of a working policy of re-opening. Finally, allowing these kinds of visitors would build confidence, test whether short-term tourists could actually visit (I think not yet, but...), and help protect the tourism infrastructure from further and/or irreparable damage.
 
There are those who will argue that it is better to keep the borders closed and wait this out, and I honestly have trouble arguing against that idea (I don't want to catch the <deleted> thing). However, those who make that point rarely take the next step; what do you do with the 6-9 million people damaged by the current policy? Will those that advocate for closed borders take in homeless people? If so, how many? One family? Two families? Three? Will those that advocate for closed borders give up a percentage of their salaries/pensions to help? If so, how much? 25%? 35%? 45%? Will those that advocate for closed borders pay school fees and related costs for all the children of unemployed/underemployed parents? How many kids? One? Five? Twenty? The question isn't merely an intellectual exercise, it has real-world implications and consequences. 
 
If you want those 6-9 million people to sacrifice for you, what are you going to sacrifice for them?
 
To sum up, I think that the question of whether or not to keep the border closed is incomplete. The question should be: if you keep the border closed, then what will you do for the 6-9 million people economically-eviscerated by the response to the virus? Opening the Kingdom to visitors in November for the high season would likely see a few cases of the virus, but the Thai medical system can handle that (it did before, right?) until a vaccine is widely available. It would begin the process of re-starting the tourism industry in Thailand (20% of GDP!!!), begin the process of building trust again, re-start the employment of huge numbers, give Thailand a 'leg up' on future tourism business in the region, and alleviate some of the damage done to the poorest in the Kingdom. The alternative is a policy of rot, idleness, atrophy and decline with an indefinite timeline. 
 
History is replete with examples of people hiding behind walls for protection, but it rarely ever works (especially against something the size of a virus); see the 'Maginot Line', the Great Wall of China, the Berlin Wall, and more. History shows that a combination of pro-active tactics coupled with reasonable, layered defenses provides a better outcome to almost any problem.
 
The question is; is anyone listening? Or are public officials just spewing nonsense to get their name in the paper?
 
I've given you an outline on what and how to do it; can you take it from here?
 
 
 

The only thing you are missing, and perhaps may be escaping you, because your intuition conveys it in message, Is that if ALL the other curves are not managed, Mother Nature will manage them for the country, and she will not be polite about doing such.  Easily the 2nd law of thermodynamic physics applies to human behavior.  Already, we have seen the Corna-virus adapt and strengthen, in Vietnam.  Now Thailand has 2 viruses to run from! “Run the mile now, or run 3 in two more days.  Either way it goes, you are going to run your mile a day; unless you are dead.”

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I can see Tatoo pointing to the sky shouting "the plane, the plane" as Thailand opens to tourists.

Welcome to Fantasy Thailand.

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17 hours ago, kamma said:

The requirement for quarantine is not unique to Thailand.

 

Most countries in Europe are requiring tourists to quarantine upon arrival. France, Germany, Austria, Czech Rep, Estonia, Ireland and Bulgaria to name a few. Also N. America, many countries in S. America and Australia have quarantine rules for travelers in place.

 

And yet many are still holidaying this summer.

 

People here just wanna bash Thailand. The Thai government has many-many deficiencies in the way the country is run but all these armchair politicians here act as if they could run a country any better?

"but all these armchair politicians here act as if they could run a country any better?"

Well they certainly could not run it any worse.

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17 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

Why not ship in a few million indians to completely re-energize the Farang-Departure Program ?

Well it would certainly keep the people who make boxes of straws in regular employment. :cheesy:

  • Haha 1

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16 hours ago, VBF said:

Or maybe your attention span is too short????   Just wonderin' 🤔

Depends on whether he (Steven100) wrote his post  before 5pm or not. :burp:

  • Haha 1

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18 hours ago, Anna Rak said:

British Home office remove quarantine restrictions for Malaysia and Brunei.

 

There are many great beaches and holiday spots on the East coast of Malaysia, so to try and get some sort of far east holiday this year that will be a last minute destination for me, my Thai wife and our children for our 3 weeks vacation.

 

So Thailand has lost my annual 200,000 Thai baht spend, I know in the great scheme of things it's a small amount but as they say every little helps. 

So you are expecting Malaysia to open up to tourism in the foreseeable future? They are only this month starting to issue approvals to most existing work permit holders to return. Two-week quarantine in government designated hotel also.

  • Haha 1

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On 8/7/2020 at 11:08 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

This is the third time i have posted this, but it is still quite relevant.

 

I think it is time for Thailand to re-evaluate its Virus Response policy.

 
Thailand has been following a 'Zero-Tolerance' policy, but I think it is time to move to a 'Managed-Tolerance' policy. I make this suggestion based mainly on two factors; I think it is inevitable that the virus will return to Thailand and a calm, managed response is more effective than hysteria. Secondly, the economic damage being done to millions is more harmful than the virus itself and needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.
 
We recently saw new cases in Vietnam, and I think that we are going to see new cases in Thailand soon; like most people I take the government's claim of zero cases with a grain of salt, although it seems like they have done a very good job overall. However, I don't think it can last. A better policy is to prepare, both medically and in terms of public opinion/education, for the return of the virus. Is this a radical idea? No, not really. Members will recall the phrase "flatten the curve", but perhaps a reminder is needed that the idea is to manage the virus so that the health system isn't overwhelmed; a policy of Zero Tolerance is incompatible with an open society and/or open economy. It is time to re-enforce the precautions needed, but also to allow for an economic re-start which includes outsiders/foreigners. A final point; humanity's best minds and a boat-load of resources are being thrown at the problem. This global effort, propelled by the power of competition, is expected to produce a vaccine either this year or early next year while treatments are being developed and refined daily; we as a species are going to beat this scourge, and relatively soon.
 
The economic damage being done to Thailand is immense. Yes, I know that we don't hear about it too much, but there is a reason for that. The people talking in the (not quite free) Media are almost all in a 'Virus-Proof' economic situation; they aren't directly affected so they don't feel the urgency of fixing the problem. Firm numbers are difficult to come by, but it seems around 6-9 million Thais are very badly hurt by the economic fall-out of the virus, and those people need to be both helped and heard. The damage done to these people is egregious and growing worse; some government support is being withdrawn, the option of 'Go Back to the Farm' isn't really possible anymore (and not a great idea regardless), and they will soon need more food and rent support to survive. Further, many aren't well-educated and don't have transferable skills, so their options are limited. Finally, even before Covid-19, their economic situation was in decline; it is in free-fall now and they can't be ignored. Simply put, plans for their economic regeneration must to be formulated now and implemented soon.
 
When people are hungry, all bets are off.
 
How to proceed?
 
It is the beginning of August; continue/speed up the current repatriation policy 'as is', but ramp up the public education aspect of change. Announce that by October 1st (perhaps Nov. 1st?) that the airspace around Thailand will be open to commercial air travel, long-term tourists (Snow-Birds who 'winter' here), remaining residents and retirees will be allowed to return with a few restrictions (test before boarding or on arrival, reasonable insurance, self-isolation at home on arrival, etc. BUT no mandatory state quarantine), implement common sense visa issuance (sorry Floridians and Texans!) and most of all prepare the Thai people for the idea that although there will be cases of the virus, they will be managed, and the benefits of re-opening are a risk worth taking. Yes, the end of mandatory state quarantine is essential if this is going to work; I believe that the long-term visitors will respect the self-isolation policy and Thailand's million strong public health volunteers can monitor them, but they won't come if they are going to be locked up. Moreover, the selection of the residents/retirees and 'Snow-Birds' as an initial group isn't accidental; these people already know the Kingdom and understand life within it, are good 'testers' of a new system, have a lot of money to spend, and can be excellent examples of a working policy of re-opening. Finally, allowing these kinds of visitors would build confidence, test whether short-term tourists could actually visit (I think not yet, but...), and help protect the tourism infrastructure from further and/or irreparable damage.
 
There are those who will argue that it is better to keep the borders closed and wait this out, and I honestly have trouble arguing against that idea (I don't want to catch the <deleted> thing). However, those who make that point rarely take the next step; what do you do with the 6-9 million people damaged by the current policy? Will those that advocate for closed borders take in homeless people? If so, how many? One family? Two families? Three? Will those that advocate for closed borders give up a percentage of their salaries/pensions to help? If so, how much? 25%? 35%? 45%? Will those that advocate for closed borders pay school fees and related costs for all the children of unemployed/underemployed parents? How many kids? One? Five? Twenty? The question isn't merely an intellectual exercise, it has real-world implications and consequences. 
 
If you want those 6-9 million people to sacrifice for you, what are you going to sacrifice for them?
 
To sum up, I think that the question of whether or not to keep the border closed is incomplete. The question should be: if you keep the border closed, then what will you do for the 6-9 million people economically-eviscerated by the response to the virus? Opening the Kingdom to visitors in November for the high season would likely see a few cases of the virus, but the Thai medical system can handle that (it did before, right?) until a vaccine is widely available. It would begin the process of re-starting the tourism industry in Thailand (20% of GDP!!!), begin the process of building trust again, re-start the employment of huge numbers, give Thailand a 'leg up' on future tourism business in the region, and alleviate some of the damage done to the poorest in the Kingdom. The alternative is a policy of rot, idleness, atrophy and decline with an indefinite timeline. 
 
History is replete with examples of people hiding behind walls for protection, but it rarely ever works (especially against something the size of a virus); see the 'Maginot Line', the Great Wall of China, the Berlin Wall, and more. History shows that a combination of pro-active tactics coupled with reasonable, layered defenses provides a better outcome to almost any problem.
 
The question is; is anyone listening? Or are public officials just spewing nonsense to get their name in the paper?
 
I've given you an outline on what and how to do it; can you take it from here?
 
 
 

Please contact me. I would like to publish as an opinion piece in our ScandAsia magazine. Please contact me through the website of ScandAsia as I dont know how to contact you through this forum.  

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