Vaccine -- Will you take it or not?

[checkered flag]

14 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I'm always perplexed by the anti vaxxer crowd.

 

Probably a large percentage of the TVF crowd are old enough to remember a time when there were polio hospitals, with people 'living' in iron lungs.

 

The reason we don't see that anymore, and it's erased from memory is because of a polio vaccine. I remember taking it as a small child on a lump of sugar.

 

Yeah let's all go back to the days before vaccines and see how that works out!

 

When a vaccine becomes available, just get your head outta your ass and get vaccinated for Gods sake. If not for you, your kids and grandkids! 

Many of the anti xaxxer crowd probably consume large amount of alcohol daily and think it's OK. That or taking handfuls of pills, but complain about a vaccine that could help them and or those around them. I think they are mostly the manly kind that's that are afraid of needles. 

I'd be in the first group who want the vaccine.

[DrTuner]

Taking a vaccine among the first is sort of like installing a freshly released new version of Windows or buying a new model of a car. Risk is high there will be complications until updates arrive. Factory recalls are not possible, though, and no reinstallations either.

Edited August 12, 2020 by DrTuner

[CGW]

57 minutes ago, checkered flag said:

I'd be in the first group who want the vaccine.

Good for you 

Though I would question your reasoning ????

Your faith in the business model of "Big Pharma" is admirable, it didn't come cheap though, they invest billions in advertising to influence people to believe that they are doing it for "your good" not profit.

If the vaccine goes wrong you can always join the queue and make a claim, they have paid out over 4.2 billion USD where they got it wrong.

https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/data/index.html

Good luck! 

[checkered flag]

A lot of jabbering but I don't see any new informative information and/or posters changing whether or not they will be vaccinated. Just spinning around.

[aussiexpat]

Just read on CDC website: 

"...recent studies show that flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to the flu vaccine."

 

This means that half the people vaccinated get the flu anyway! Why would a brand new vaccine for Covid be any more successful than the seasonal flu vaccines they've been working on for the last 50 years? When you the weigh up the risk of unknown side effects, I'll only get it when Thais mandate it for coming in.

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by aussiexpat

[Tounge Thaied]

1 hour ago, aussiexpat said:

when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to the flu vaccine."

Key wording here. This efficacy rate is only applicable when they able to accurately match the vaccine to each seasonal strain. In other words, they can achieve 40-60% but only when they get the match right. And in fact, when you take the error rate of correctly matching the strain, the overall efficacy of anyone receiving a benefit drops to about 33%. What is even more important to consider is the attempt at the SARS 1 vaccine... which has not been successful at all. In fact, they gave up on attempting to produce this vaccine. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Tounge Thaied

[aussiexpat]

That raises another point. As all the strains are apparently different in each country/region, will we all need 2 vaccinations to get in (home country strain and Thailand strain) 

[canopy]

Results of the poll: 2 out of 3 people here want a vaccine. 1 out of 3 don't.

 

[checkered flag]

9 minutes ago, canopy said:

Results of the poll: 2 out of 3 people here want a vaccine. 1 out of 3 don't.

 

Price of plane tickets out will get expensive. I'm staying and will get the vaccine ????.

[checkered flag]

2 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Key wording here. This efficacy rate is only applicable when they able to accurately match the vaccine to each seasonal strain. In other words, they can achieve 40-60% but only when they get the match right. And in fact, when you take the error rate of correctly matching the strain, the overall efficacy of anyone receiving a benefit drops to about 33%. What is even more important to consider is the attempt at the SARS 1 vaccine... which has not been successful at all. In fact, they gave up on attempting to produce this vaccine. 

The strains may vary but if the receptor site is the same it won't matter.

[KonaRain]

On 8/9/2020 at 3:20 PM, elgenon said:

There will be some kind of vaccine. The US government has ordered a bunch before the testing. But what type and how effective it/they will be is open to question.

 

Also an antibody vaccine is close. Cheap and plentiful. How long it will last is unknown at the moment.

Reading all Your great comments!

NPR Said today (I think), that there are 8 vaccines in the running, ;ur the 'Russian vaccine' may set back the cause of vax for a long time..???? silly, just follow the data, and take Your chances..Grove hill, here's some more good data!

Alohas      antigens?

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/08/06/899813217/the-special-sauce-that-makes-some-vaccines-work

[CGW]

Being a "critical thinker" I find it strange how the media is telling us that we must have a vaccine, vaccines are supposed to be used when there is no cure available, could this be because their major advertisers are pharmaceutical companies? Is a cure available, is it purposefully being hidden?

Away from the well funded MSM, some news agencies which still tell the truth and report facts are reporting how Doctors are disgusted with the response, most of the news from Doctors is labelled misinformation or fake news, why is that I wonder, why are we not listening to Doctors anymore, seems that we are not being given the option!  Doctors views are hidden, but if the saviour of society, a non Doctor "Kill Bill" says anything about the "virus" it's front page news ????

Appears letting the truth stand in the way of a well run "agenda" is no longer an option 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/08/640-european-doctors-gather-discuss-overreaction-covid-damaging-society/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=PostSideSharingButtons&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons

 

[elliss]

On 8/9/2020 at 10:06 AM, dinsdale said:

The glaring flaw in this questionare is the assumption there WILL be a vaccine. This is not a given.

   

    A vaccine , that has proven too be effective , against covid-19 .?

     What are the side effects ?. 

    It will be at least  two years, before we know , the Scientific results ..

 

[AndrewMciver]

On 8/12/2020 at 10:42 AM, checkered flag said:

Many of the anti xaxxer crowd probably consume large amount of alcohol daily and think it's OK. That or taking handfuls of pills, but complain about a vaccine that could help them and or those around them. I think they are mostly the manly kind that's that are afraid of needles. 

I'd be in the first group who want the vaccine.

 

Pretty much. Know someone who will put considerable amounts of chemicals (legal and illegal) into his body without flinching, yet is adamant he won't do a vaccine. 

[BoojamTheKind]

On 8/12/2020 at 1:51 AM, GinBoy2 said:

I'm always perplexed by the anti vaxxer crowd.

 

Probably a large percentage of the TVF crowd are old enough to remember a time when there were polio hospitals, with people 'living' in iron lungs.

 

The reason we don't see that anymore, and it's erased from memory is because of a polio vaccine. I remember taking it as a small child on a lump of sugar.

 

Yeah let's all go back to the days before vaccines and see how that works out!

 

When a vaccine becomes available, just get your head outta your ass and get vaccinated for Gods sake. If not for you, your kids and grandkids! 

You are just regurgitating the slops of Big Pharma propaganda. I have heard this same tired old claim about polio made by many ignorant people who were indoctrinated into the vaccine cult. It is rubbish. Polio didn't even exist before the early 1900s. Polio was a disease of modernity most likely caused by environmental factors. The first polio vaccine was an unmitigated disaster and this is not up for debate. Later they redefined the symptoms of polio so that exactly the same presentation was no longer diagnosed as polio but as some form of encephalitis.

 

I'm not against vaccines, just against the lies and deceit of the pharma companies that have revolving door relationships with governments and use every imaginable dirty trick to hide their mistakes and sell their defective products or encourage the powers that be to force these upon the bewildered masses.

Edited August 13, 2020 by BoojamTheKind

[BritManToo]

On 8/12/2020 at 1:51 AM, GinBoy2 said:

When a vaccine becomes available, just get your head outta your ass and get vaccinated for Gods sake. If not for you, your kids and grandkids! 

I'm hoping my kids and grand-kids will be as naturally resistant to disease as I.

(cue the 'you only survived because everyone else is vaccinated' crowd) 

[checkered flag]

10 hours ago, elliss said:

   

    A vaccine , that has proven too be effective , against covid-19 .?

     What are the side effects ?. 

    It will be at least  two years, before we know , the Scientific results ..

 

So your answer is no - I'll stall. Its like I can't run the race because I can't tie my shoes, plus expect a participation trophy.

[checkered flag]

On 8/13/2020 at 7:20 AM, Tounge Thaied said:

Key wording here. This efficacy rate is only applicable when they able to accurately match the vaccine to each seasonal strain. In other words, they can achieve 40-60% but only when they get the match right. And in fact, when you take the error rate of correctly matching the strain, the overall efficacy of anyone receiving a benefit drops to about 33%. What is even more important to consider is the attempt at the SARS 1 vaccine... which has not been successful at all. In fact, they gave up on attempting to produce this vaccine. 

So your saying no and looking for reasons. 

[checkered flag]

On 8/12/2020 at 5:44 PM, CGW said:

Good for you 

Though I would question your reasoning ????

Your faith in the business model of "Big Pharma" is admirable, it didn't come cheap though, they invest billions in advertising to influence people to believe that they are doing it for "your good" not profit.

If the vaccine goes wrong you can always join the queue and make a claim, they have paid out over 4.2 billion USD where they got it wrong.

https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/data/index.html

Good luck! 

My speciality is infectious diseases and I fully understand the risks of unchecked pandemics. The best strategy at this point is to break the spread by effective treatments and/or vaccine mediated immune responses. The immunity from recovered patients is good but the cost to health is very high. 

Effective treatments and recovering from Covid are not risk free. The cycle needs to be broken and with sufficient numbers of healthy people vaccinated, transmission will come under control. 

Currently Thailand is doing a good job by locking everything down and keeping the virus at bay, but a vaccine program would allow sensible opening up. 

[Laza 45]

[checkered flag]

On 8/13/2020 at 6:20 AM, aussiexpat said:

Just read on CDC website: 

"...recent studies show that flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to the flu vaccine."

 

This means that half the people vaccinated get the flu anyway! Why would a brand new vaccine for Covid be any more successful than the seasonal flu vaccines they've been working on for the last 50 years? When you the weigh up the risk of unknown side effects, I'll only get it when Thais mandate it for coming in.

 

I get the flu vaccine as it helps me and those I come in contact with. It was mandated to work in a hospital in the US as I expect the Covid vaccine will be. In fact they had shot team nurses running the halls and checking everyone working. No proof and you needed to roll up your sleeve. 

We know flu strains mutate rapidly and because the flu vaccine in older technology and requires longer to develop hitting the right strain is not easy. That said even a 40-60% effectiveness significantly reduces illness and the risk of spreading.

[CGW]

1 hour ago, checkered flag said:

I get the flu vaccine as it helps me and those I come in contact with.

How do you know it helps? do you not have a functioning immune system?

It's been over 50 years since I had flu and I take no drugs produced by the companies you work for nor do I intend to.

Your slanted view is obviously driven by your source of income IMO. ???? 

From what I have read people that took the flu vaccine lowered their resistance to Covid 19, is the warning label wrong?

[checkered flag]

2 minutes ago, CGW said:

How do you know it helps? do you not have a functioning immune system?

It's been over 50 years since I had flu and I take no drugs produced by the companies you work for nor do I intend to.

Your slanted view is obviously driven by your source of income IMO. ???? 

From what I have read people that took the flu vaccine lowered their resistance to Covid 19, is the warning label wrong?

? What are you talking about? Go back and drink you 6 pack.

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, CGW said:

From what I have read people that took the flu vaccine lowered their resistance to Covid 19

 

 

Interesting... I’ve not read or seen that information anywhere. IF true it could explain a lot if those nations with a high incidence of Covid-19 deaths and severe illness are also those nations with a high incidence of Flu Vaccine. 

 

Any reliable source CGW ????

[CGW]

9 minutes ago, checkered flag said:

? What are you talking about? Go back and drink you 6 pack.

Admirable response 

$ first eh

[CGW]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Any reliable source CGW ????

What is considered a reliable source, who is determining the "truth" ????

I posted information on this forum way back about this, there were warnings stating that the flu vaccine reduced resistance to covid, these were official, from the manufacturer, sure they are still available.

A search will doubtless bring them up - eventually, but as we are unable to filter our own information google has heavily "censored" what is called "fake" news!

A quick search with google revels nothing, if I use another search engine (Duckduck) there is a lot of information, this being the first, https://doctormurray.com/does-the-flu-shot-increase-covid-19-risk/ is this reliable, depends if you consider a Doctor is telling the truth or if you want to believe censored results, major advertisers have a huge influence on results, there is a lot of true information out there but getting harder to find!

If people were able to put aside their "cognitive dissonance" for a period and look at facts?

The usual suspects, those in the industry will no doubt be on the "attack" now ????

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 8/13/2020 at 6:20 AM, aussiexpat said:

Just read on CDC website: 

"...recent studies show that flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to the flu vaccine."

 

This means that half the people vaccinated get the flu anyway! Why would a brand new vaccine for Covid be any more successful than the seasonal flu vaccines they've been working on for the last 50 years? When you the weigh up the risk of unknown side effects, I'll only get it when Thais mandate it for coming in.

 

I'm not sure why people keep bringing up this old canard about the flu vaccine. The flu vaccines available each year are developed in a totally different manner to the current coronavirus vaccine efforts. CoVid-19 vaccines are being developed to combat one specific virus that has been clearly identified, that we already know is circulating around the world and infecting humans. There is as yet, only one main strain of CoVid-19 against which to design a vaccine (and the minor variations seen so far are not enough to affect the efficacy of a vaccine).

 

With the flu, the scenario is totally different. There are two different types of flu that primarily affect humans, influenza A and influenza B. While the B strain is fairly homogenous, there are many, many different subtypes of influenza A. Here are just some of the ones that have affected humans recently: H1N1, H2N2, H3N2, H5N1, H7N7, H1N2, H9N2, H7N2, H7N3, H10N7, H7N9 and H6N1.

 

Each year, flu vaccines designed to combat influenza B, plus just 2 or 3 of the A strains are rolled out, based on a guess about which particular strains will be prevalent during the coming flu season. If the guess is correct, the flu vaccine for that year will be more successful, if they guess wrong, then it will be less so.

 

This is so totally different to the way CoVid-19 vaccines are being developed, that there is really no valid basis for a comparison.

 

[elliss]

8 hours ago, checkered flag said:

? What are you talking about? Go back and drink you 6 pack.

 

  Tell us about yourself , Cf . 

    Your professional status , or just another Google Quack .

     We have so many , on TV forums , becomes so boring ..

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by elliss

[elliss]

11 hours ago, checkered flag said:

So your answer is no - I'll stall. Its like I can't run the race because I can't tie my shoes, plus expect a participation trophy.

 

 Should the vaccine , cause undesirable affects to my health and well-being .

   I should be able to sue the manufacturer , yes ?. 

    

Edited August 14, 2020 by elliss

[checkered flag]

11 hours ago, elliss said:

 

  Tell us about yourself , Cf . 

    Your professional status , or just another Google Quack .

     We have so many , on TV forums , becomes so boring ..

 

I would ask you the same. But I don't expect anything in you life history,