UK COVID-19 daily death count could be scrapped: Telegraph

[webfact]

UK COVID-19 daily death count could be scrapped: Telegraph

 

FILE PHOTO: People are seen on a retail street, amid the spread of the coronavirus disease (COVID-19), in Windsor, Britain August 5, 2020. REUTERS/Toby Melville

 

(Reuters) - The UK's official COVID-19 daily death count could be scrapped following an investigation into Public Health England's method of counting the toll, The Telegraph newspaper reported.

 

The conclusions of the investigation, which was ordered by Health Secretary Matt Hancock after it emerged officials were "exaggerating" virus deaths, are expected this week, the newspaper said.

 

One recommendation could be to move to a weekly official death toll instead, a government source told the Telegraph.

 

Britain paused its daily update of the death toll last month and the government ordered a review into how Public Health England reports coronavirus deaths, after academics said the daily figures may include people who died of other causes.

 

Academics in a blog post had warned that the way the government health agency calculated the figures was skewed as patients who tested positive for coronavirus, but are successfully treated, will still be counted as dying from the virus "even if they had a heart attack or were run over by a bus three months later".

 

England's death figures vary substantially from day to day due to this reason, the academics had argued.

 

In contrast, the other parts of the United Kingdom do not follow the same approach. There is a cut-off threshold of 28 days in Scotland after a positive test, after which a patient is not automatically considered to have died from the virus.

 

Britain, one of the countries hardest hit by the virus, reported more than 1,000 new COVID-19 infections on Sunday, its highest daily increase since June, taking the total number of cases past 310,000.

 

(Reporting by Bhargav Acharya in Bengaluru; Editing by Daniel Wallis)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-08-10

 

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[Tug]

Sounds to me like your government might be trying to hide things don’t stand for it

[ezzra]

17 minutes ago, Tug said:

Sounds to me like your government might be trying to hide things don’t stand for it

sure, no bad news on death, no pressure on the people who are suppose to mange and prevent them, easy way out for all...

[scubascuba3]

No story link to click on?

[TopDeadSenter]

35 minutes ago, Tug said:

Sounds to me like your government might be trying to hide things don’t stand for it

"after it emerged officials were "exaggerating" virus deaths"

 

 Yes, you are correct. As per the OP the govt have been ginning the stats. For what purposes we can only guess at. But the premise of this article is right. Scrap the daily death count, it serves only to ratchet up the irrational fear level. The negative effect of a generation of kids too terrified to go to school, then left unable to deal with life is way worse that this virus. 

 We hear this world stopping virus is so lethal and terrible. Economies have shut down worldwide. Travel and free movement ended. Fear is off the charts. Yet the only way most people know they even had coronavirus is by taking a test. Well, it is probably time to rethink the narrative.

[scammed]

it follow the philosophy of co2 going to drown us all in a flood,

a herd in panic is easier to control, manipulate, tax, and impose restrictions on,

such as criminalize movement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom

[TopDeadSenter]

6 minutes ago, Estrada said:

The fact is that in the UK and US the deaths due to COVID-19 are around double those recorded in the official figures.

Claiming without evidence that COVID deaths are "around double" the official recorded figures is a conspiracy theory not a fact.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Claiming without evidence that COVID deaths are "around double" the official recorded figures is a conspiracy theory not a fact.

A conspiracy requires one or more people to conspire.

 

A logical argument is not a conspiracy.

 

Hypothetical logical argument do not, by definition, rely on evidence, their validity is the correctness of applied logic.

[scammed]

11 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A conspiracy requires one or more people to conspire.

 

A logical argument is not a conspiracy.

 

Hypothetical logical argument do not, by definition, rely on evidence, their validity is the correctness of applied logic.

no, the hypothesis is verified or falsified by data that either support or contradict the hypothesis. there is to date no known data why uk should have twice the casualties

over any other european nation, or even north america, thus the most logical explanation is uk & usa count differently, with different criteria

[Logosone]

Well done UK government.

 

Quote

Academics in a blog post had warned that the way the government health agency calculated the figures was skewed as patients who tested positive for coronavirus, but are successfully treated, will still be counted as dying from the virus "even if they had a heart attack or were run over by a bus three months later"

 

Healthy common sense would tell you this is nonsense. In Germany it is exactly the same, anyone tested with the virus who dies, of whatever cause, is counted as having died of Covid19. Clearly this overinflates the numbers.

 

They count very differently in places like Thailand, which goes someway to explain the great discrepancy in numbers.

 

It is good that the UK government is reviewing this. Good job.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, scammed said:

no, the hypothesis is verified or falsified by data that either support or contradict the hypothesis. there is to date no known data why uk should have twice the casualties

over any other european nation, or even north america, thus the most logical explanation is uk & usa count differently, with different criteria

You missed the bit about the intent to stop reporting the data.

[Cryingdick]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You missed the bit about the intent to stop reporting the data.

 

Don't worry you can find that on CNN 24/7 a day. 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, Logosone said:

In Germany it is exactly the same, anyone tested with the virus who dies, of whatever cause, is counted as having died of Covid19.

It’s one of your regular ‘grouses’ but you never back up your claim.

[Logosone]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s one of your regular ‘grouses’ but you never back up your claim.

I always back up my claims, unlike other people.

 

You want confirmation that Germany counts anyone who tested positive for Covid19 and died as having died of Covid 19? No problem, here you go:

 

"Germany: All deaths in and outside of hospitals of patients who have tested positive for COVID-19"

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-the-challenge-of-counting-covid-19-deaths/

 

 

[scammed]

32 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Well done UK government.

 

 

Healthy common sense would tell you this is nonsense. In Germany it is exactly the same, anyone tested with the virus who dies, of whatever cause, is counted as having died of Covid19. Clearly this overinflates the numbers.

 

They count very differently in places like Thailand, which goes someway to explain the great discrepancy in numbers.

 

It is good that the UK government is reviewing this. Good job.

i have to agree with you on this one, it takes a great man to snap out of it

and admit his modus operandi was a fallacy

[Logosone]

4 minutes ago, scammed said:

i have to agree with you on this one, it takes a great man to snap out of it

and admit his modus operandi was a fallacy

Britain has done excellent work in reviewing its death count repeatedly. Much better than Germany. Very transparent from the UK and very sensible work.

 

I don't think over counting deaths the way European countries are doing is good thing. It means we do not know the true extent of this illness' danger. It distorts the figures.

 

The reason why countries are counting this way is because of WHO guidelines. But many countries interpret it differently.

 

The difficulty is that to do an autopsy on every single patient who died with a positive Covid 19 test  is not something doctors wanted to do. They were concerned about dangers to them. It is time consuming. It is costly. However in many cases that would be the only certain way to determine if the patient actually died of Covid 19 or not.

 

Obviously what countries like Thailand are doing is also wrong and even worse, to basically count hardly anyone as having died of Covid 19 since they do not test 99% of the population.

 

The problem in South East Asian countries most do not have the resources to test. The authorities in Indonesia have therefore taken issue with the WHO methodology in counting the death rate and have said that potential patients, not yet tested, should be included in the equation. The reason being that by including them, though not tested yet but suspected, this would reduce Indonesia's fatality rate from 8% to 3%.

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/coronavirus-indonesia-disputes-whos-method-of-counting-the-countrys-fatality-rate

 

Unfortunately  many countries seem to have great problems in getting accurate death figures, so whatever is done to improve the accuracy is a good thing. Health authorities and ministers should take a cue from the UK government in this regard.

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, Estrada said:

Nonsense.... Richard Coleman catches COVID-19 which causes him to die early from his pre-existing condition, death is therefore correctly determined as caused by the COVID-19 infection. Or Richard Coleman has a car accident and dies. Death is recorded as being due to a car accident not COVID-19 even if he has COVID-19. The fact is that in the UK and US the deaths due to COVID-19 are around double those recorded in the official figures.

 

 

Case in point.

Agent Orange use in the Vietnam War is still the cause of death now for some veterans. Example, ultimately causing death in 2018 of a veteran who died from Hanson's malignant lung cancer.

https://military.com/daily-news/2019/06/14/vietnam-veterans-who-died-agent-orange-effects-be-honored-saturday.html

Covid 19 permanent damage to vital organs has been proven. For "vulnerable" people, their bodies may become ticking time bombs even after recovery.

 

[silver sea]

 

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Britain paused its daily update of the death toll last month and the government ordered a review into how Public Health England reports coronavirus deaths, after academics said the daily figures may include people who died of other causes.

 

I would be inclined to agree with the academics.
 

There were occasions when readers of U.K. newspaper articles on coronavirus would say in the “readers’ comments” section at the bottom of the article that when one of their relatives died in a hospital, a decision had to be made about what to put on the death certificate. The relatives were told that if they agreed that coronavirus was the cause of death, the body could be released quickly for the funeral.
 

If however the relatives felt that death was caused by other reasons, the body would have to go into storage and that it might be weeks or even months before a final decision on cause of death could be made. 

 

Naturally, distressed relatives wanted to have a funeral as soon as possible and so were more likely to agree that coronavirus, rather than heart or cancer problems, caused the death.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by silver sea

[Logosone]

2 minutes ago, silver sea said:

 

 

I would be inclined to agree with the academics.
 

There were occasions when readers of U.K. newspaper articles on coronavirus would say in the “readers’ comments” section at the bottom of the article that when one of their relatives died in a hospital, a decision had to be made about what to put on the death certificate. The relatives were told that if they agreed that coronavirus was the cause of death, the body could be released quickly for the funeral.
 

If however the relatives felt that death was caused by other reasons, the body would have to go into storage and that it might be weeks or even months before a final decision on cause of death could be made. 

 

Naturally, distressed relatives wanted to have a funeral as soon as possible and so were more likely to agree that coronavirus, rather than heart or cancer problems, caused the death.

 

 

Excellent point, and another thing: Because hospitals receive more money for Covid19 deaths hospital administrators have an incentive to see Covid19 on a death certificate:

 

Jensen said, "Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate. Why? Because if it's a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for – if they're Medicare – typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000. But if it's COVID-19 pneumonia, then it's $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000."

 

We rate the claim that hospitals get paid more if patients are listed as COVID-19 and on ventilators as TRUE.

Hospitals and doctors do get paid more for Medicare patients diagnosed with COVID-19 or if it's considered presumed they have COVID-19 absent a laboratory-confirmed test, and three times more if the patients are placed on a ventilator to cover the cost of care and loss of business resulting from a shift in focus to treat COVID-19 cases.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

 

[Scott]

A post containing misinformation has been removed along with replies.   Continue to post false or misleading information and you will receive a suspension.  

 

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

No story link to click on?

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-britain-infections/uk-covid-19-daily-death-count-could-be-scrapped-telegraph-idUSFWN2F91G2

 

Who in turn were quoting...

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-news-uk-deaths-cases-second-lockdown/

[silver sea]

14 minutes ago, silver sea said:

 

 

I would be inclined to agree with the academics.
 

There were occasions when readers of U.K. newspaper articles on coronavirus would say in the “readers’ comments” section at the bottom of the article that when one of their relatives died in a hospital, a decision had to be made about what to put on the death certificate. The relatives were told that if they agreed that coronavirus was the cause of death, the body could be released quickly for the funeral.
 

If however the relatives felt that death was caused by other reasons, the body would have to go into storage and that it might be weeks or even months before a final decision on cause of death could be made. 

 

Naturally, distressed relatives wanted to have a funeral as soon as possible and so were more likely to agree that coronavirus, rather than heart or cancer problems, caused the death.

 

 

 

 

 

Further to my comments above, here is an interesting article about Professor Karol Sikora “who has gained a huge Twitter following during the crisis, claimed doctors are sometimes too keen to mention the disease on death certificates.“

 

He is also a cancer treatment expert.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8409677/Coronavirus-deaths-HALF-official-toll.html

[Rimmer]

A troll post has been removed

[Logosone]

An official of the Robert Koch Institute in Germany has confirmed (!) that anyone who commits suicide or had a car accident is counted as having died of Covid 19, provided he tested positive for Covid19.

 

 

 

 

[2 is 1]

Maybe that was genius from UK, who count speed of Ferrari in Red Bull case!?

[Chomper Higgot]

Perhaps link this the Government’s ‘PR campaign’ to open schools in September.

[Eric Loh]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

UK COVID-19 daily death count could be scrapped

A Wuhan cover-up. All countries have their reasons to sweep information under the carpet.

[JusticeGB]

Daft to count a death as a covid19 death 28 days after someone has recovered from covid19. It should be noted that the UK is one of three countries that does not report the number of people who have recovered from covid19. This might be the reason why they could be recording road deaths, for example, as covid19 deaths. Even if someone has covid19 it's not a covid19 death it's a road traffic accident!

[johnnysunshine]

Well, that is a good start.   

So, can we now begin to report the daily deaths of the diseases which cause considerably more deaths beginning with heart attacks, cancer, diabetes, and the other 19 diseases which cause more deaths daily than COVID-19 Plandemic to show how ridiculously low the COVID-19 are in contrast?

[Rimmer]

Some quoted replies of a previously removed post have now been removed