Marriage extension

[ryane66]

5 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Well, that's a new one on me!

You already have a Non O (based on medical). Why didn't you apply for a Non O based on retirement instead at the Thai Embassy.

 

You may be able to apply for a 1 year extension based on retirement changing the reason of stay from medical to retirement, but I've never heard of that before.

Maybe @ubonjoe can provide some light on the issue.

They were not issuing tourist visas and due to a very tight time constraint for the repatriation flight and my necessity to get back for the operation,  they felt this was the best way.

[Tanoshi]

6 minutes ago, ryane66 said:

They were not issuing tourist visas and due to a very tight time constraint for the repatriation flight and my necessity to get back for the operation,  they felt this was the best way.

Which Thai Embassy was this?

 

I stand to be corrected, but there indication was incorrect.

There is only a procedure to obtain a Non O based on marriage or retirement when you entered either Visa exempt or on a Tourist Visa. There is no procedure for changing or applying for a Non O based on retirement when you've entered on a Non O based on medical.

 

As already stated, you may be able to apply for a 1 year extension based on retirement from a Non Imm O based on medical, but that would be at the discretion of Immigration.

You would need to meet the financial requirements of 800K in a Thai bank for 2 months prior to the date of application, or 2 x monthly overseas transfers into a Thai bank of 65K +.

 

Which is your local Immigration office Ryan.

 

[Jenkins9039]

4 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Obviously, it is impossible with so little detail to provide a meaningful response to your post

If you need specific information, just post here:

- Your current Visa situation > On which Visa did you last enter Thailand, and what was the permission to stay (as stamped in your passport) from that entry?

- Did you apply in mean time for extensions of stay, and if so for which reason and what where the permission to stay dates from those last extensions of stay?

- What is your age, nationality, and are you officially married to a thai national or have thai dependant children?

- What is your IO?

Like i stated, exactly the same.

[Okis]

1 hour ago, Jenkins9039 said:

Like i stated, exactly the same.

Did you ever use the covid/embassy letter extension that was used before the amnesty was implemented? 

[ryane66]

9 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Which Thai Embassy was this?

 

I stand to be corrected, but there indication was incorrect.

There is only a procedure to obtain a Non O based on marriage or retirement when you entered either Visa exempt or on a Tourist Visa. There is no procedure for changing or applying for a Non O based on retirement when you've entered on a Non O based on medical.

 

As already stated, you may be able to apply for a 1 year extension based on retirement from a Non Imm O based on medical, but that would be at the discretion of Immigration.

You would need to meet the financial requirements of 800K in a Thai bank for 2 months prior to the date of application, or 2 x monthly overseas transfers into a Thai bank of 65K +.

 

Which is your local Immigration office Ryan.

 

It was the Embassy in Mexico City. It was all very rushed , with lots to do and only a few days to get all done. They were very helpful. I will go into my Immigration Office in Sakon Nakhon and see if l can get an extension of stay based on retirement on this Visa. I have all the requirements. 

[Peter Denis]

11 hours ago, Jenkins9039 said:

Like i stated, exactly the same.

You are obviously not interested in any options you might have. 

How can your case be EXACTLY the same, like another posters?

Same IO, age, nationality, marital status, permission to stay date, Visa status, extensions used, ...

Could be your twin brother of course ????

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, andyrobbo said:

Hi UJ, just to clarify does this mean I need to obtain a 90 day extension based on marriage before I can apply for a one year extension? I have a one year ME Non O visa from HCM that is valid till 25 Aug, I entered Thailand on that visa on 21st March, was given 90 days till 18th June but before date that I extended 60 days with Non O to visit Thai wife that is valid till 15th September. I note the OP obtained a 60 day Non O to visit Thai Wife (from tourist visa) is that why he needs to get the 90 day extension first? Maybe I misunderstood as I thought I could apply for the one year extension around the 1st week of September? 

You can do the extension when it suits, up until the 26th Sept, I did mine yesterday. I would suggest that you do as planned before the 15th.

I am also on ME Non O from HCM and entered early Feb until 5th May when I should have flown to UK. I went last week to do 60 day which was refused, said I should have done it on 5th May. 

Yesterday there was also some hostility, the IO told my wife that ME non O were not tourists and the amnesty did not not really apply to them and it was perceived as taking advantage. You are better placed as you have done what it would appear that they expected. 

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

So much for saving those 60 day extensions when the IO's don't follow the rules. ????

I don't think it is about following the rules, I think they are just as confused as we are.

I have been to immigration twice in the last week, first visit spent an hour in an office with an IO going over options, I got different interpretations from different IOs in the same office.

At this point in time nobody can provide any definitive outcome.

[Tanoshi]

26 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I don't think it is about following the rules, I think they are just as confused as we are.

I have been to immigration twice in the last week, first visit spent an hour in an office with an IO going over options, I got different interpretations from different IOs in the same office.

At this point in time nobody can provide any definitive outcome.

Certain Immigration offices are treating the permission of stay granted by the amnesty differently than that from the permission of stay granted by the Visa entry.

 

The amnesty granted extended permission of stay from the entry because borders were closed, International flights cancelled. The irony is that they are allowing foreigners to apply for 60 day extensions, but not 1 year extensions from their extended permission of stay.

We also have at least one report of granting a 60 day extension, but then refusing a 1 year extension within that 60 days, because they were previously on an extended permission of stay from the amnesty.

Thai logic!

 

I am in incomplete agreement that they are for the most part utterly confused.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Tanoshi

[sandyf]

4 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The irony is that they are allowing foreigners to apply for 60 day extensions, but not 1 year extensions from their extended permission of stay.

Not really ironic as it is not the only scenario. I was refused a 60 day extension because I had taken advantage of the amnesty, their perception, and was told I had until 26th Sept to apply for 12 month extension or would have to leave.

I did the extension yesterday, only hiccup was the Kor Ror2, that office never required a new one in the past. Wife was told it would be witnesses and and home visits every year.

Certainly getting more particular.

[Peter Denis]

14 hours ago, Myran said:

So what would happen if you're already on a 1 year extension based on marriage, and you move to a different province? Will you not be able to make the next 1 year extension at the new office?

When on a Non Imm O Visa or 1-year extension of stay of such Visa, you are free to live wherever you want in Thailand.  But you need an 'official residence' for Immigration purposes, and it's at the IO of that province where your official residence is located that your 1-year extensions of stay, TM30s and 90-day reports will be handled.

When relocating to another province (or even within the same province), you need to notify the IO of that province that you relocated there.  You will need proof of residence of that new place (e.g. a rental contract or a copy of the house-book of the place where you are staying - together with a signed front/back copy of the ID-card from the owner), and then file a TM30 (or TM27) at the IO where you moved.

When you received approval by the local IO of that TM30 (or TM27) filing, you are then officially relocated to that new place, and will have to deal with that local IO for any immigration matters.

 

Note: In the current Amnesty times (with no clear rules/regulations resulting in inconsistency) many IOs are totally confused on how to handle applications from those whose permission to stay already expired during the Amnesty.  With some IOs refusing to handle applications when on an Amnesty-based permission to stay, playing the 'Relocation Game' can be a life-line for staying in Thailand and not being forced to leave.  For some applicants dealing with an unwilling IO to handle their application, temporarily relocating to a more accomodating IO in a different province will indeed turn out to be their option of the last resort. 

[BangkokAlan]

On 8/10/2020 at 8:05 AM, Peter Denis said:

UJ is fully correct.

The granted 60-day extension of stay you applied for, provided you with a valid permission to stay till 6 September.  So it should be no problem applying from that valid permission for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of marriage.

Please note that you need to apply for that 90-day Non Imm O marriage Visa when you still have at least 15 days (some offices require 23 days) left on your permission to stay.

You only need to prove you meet the financial requirements on the day of application (so no seasoning requirements).

>> It is strongly recommended not to wait till very last day for doing the 90-day Non Imm O Visa application at CW.

This in case your application turns out to be incomplete, so you still have time and opportunity to arrange for any missing documents.

Also in the unlikely case that CW would not accept your application for the Non Imm O Visa because of you having been on the Amnesty during the preceding period, it would provide you with the option to relocate to a more accomodating IO in another province (but that would take a couple of days, hence the importance of applying with sufficient time left on your permission to stay, keeping in mind the required 15 or 23 days before expiry of that permission to stay).

I went to CW immigration today at 9am and submitted my application for a 90 day Non-immigrant O visa based on marriage extension, it took less an hour to process no queue straight in and up to the counter. I had all the required documents plus added in a 6 month statement and my TM30. The only extras they asked was for each page of my updated bank book to be photocopied which i did will the IO spoke to my wife, asked for our photos to be changed from landscape to portrait which we did there and my wife mentioned she actually had some wedding photos in case they were required which she added into the submission. Never asked me question clearly explained the 90 day visa, the extension process and re-entry permit process so i left the office clear. We are now waiting on our call for the home visit but IO said probably issue the visa on 26th all being good with the home visit. IO was very polite, efficient and helpful.

[Peter Denis]

Hi @BangkokAlan,

 

Thanks for your report and glad that everything worked out smoothly for you (as it should)!

 

But I have one question and would really appreciate you answering it.

Reason for my question being that I am collecting case-reports from people applying for a Visa or extension at their local IO, during the Amnesty.  In these unprecedented chaos times, IOs are not consistent in how they handle such applications, and hence it is useful to get well-documented case-stories of success or refusal.

 

Here my question.

You wrote >

Hi everyone, looking for some advice on gaining marriage extension. I came in on a tourist exemption in March and early July opted for a 60 day extension to visit Thai wife in case the amnesty wasn't extended. My extension of stay expires 6th Sept while i could stay until 26th Sept without doing anything i prefer to have a long term option.

I am interested in the period between your entry in Thailand on a Tourist Visa in March and your application for the 60-day extension of stay early July.

1 - What was the permission to stay date as stamped into your passport when entering in March?

2 - After that permission to stay expired, did you apply for a 30-day extension of stay which your Tourist Visa entry allowed you?  If so when did you apply for it.

>> I am trying to determine whether you were on the 'Amnesty' extension during the April till June period, as it seems that some IOs use this as an 'excuse' for not accepting a 1-year extension of stay application (even when doing so from a valid 60-day permission to stay, as you did).

Thanks in advance.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Peter Denis

[ryane66]

15 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Which Thai Embassy was this?

 

I stand to be corrected, but there indication was incorrect.

There is only a procedure to obtain a Non O based on marriage or retirement when you entered either Visa exempt or on a Tourist Visa. There is no procedure for changing or applying for a Non O based on retirement when you've entered on a Non O based on medical.

 

As already stated, you may be able to apply for a 1 year extension based on retirement from a Non Imm O based on medical, but that would be at the discretion of Immigration.

You would need to meet the financial requirements of 800K in a Thai bank for 2 months prior to the date of application, or 2 x monthly overseas transfers into a Thai bank of 65K +.

 

Which is your local Immigration office Ryan.

 

Went to Immigration.  They were very helpful. All is well.

[BangkokAlan]

19 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi @BangkokAlan,

 

Thanks for your report and glad that everything worked out smoothly for you (as it should)!

 

But I have one question and would really appreciate you answering it.

Reason for my question being that I am collecting case-reports from people applying for a Visa or extension at their local IO, during the Amnesty.  In these unprecedented chaos times, IOs are not consistent in how they handle such applications, and hence it is useful to get well-documented case-stories of success or refusal.

 

Here my question.

You wrote >

Hi everyone, looking for some advice on gaining marriage extension. I came in on a tourist exemption in March and early July opted for a 60 day extension to visit Thai wife in case the amnesty wasn't extended. My extension of stay expires 6th Sept while i could stay until 26th Sept without doing anything i prefer to have a long term option.

I am interested in the period between your entry in Thailand on a Tourist Visa in March and your application for the 60-day extension of stay early July.

1 - What was the permission to stay date as stamped into your passport when entering in March?

2 - After that permission to stay expired, did you apply for a 30-day extension of stay which your Tourist Visa entry allowed you?  If so when did you apply for it.

>> I am trying to determine whether you were on the 'Amnesty' extension during the April till June period, as it seems that some IOs use this as an 'excuse' for not accepting a 1-year extension of stay application (even when doing so from a valid 60-day permission to stay, as you did).

Thanks in advance.

Hi Peter, to answer your questions, I arrived on 20th March on a tourists exemption and was given the standard 30 days. I was on the amnesty when i applied for the 60 day extension to visit Thai wife on 8th July and was given 60 days from 8th July with an expiry of 6th Sept. My personal experience is as long as you are prepared well with what they want and think ahead on what they may request as extras (most of which has been raised on this forum such as requesting a photocopy of every page of my bank book today) then you should be ok. Also submitting a CW office is probably easier as i believe it is more closely monitored being in BKK and also better informed due to its location so i think this helps with a more consistent approach. That just my opinion. My wife is also very detailed so applies her Thai thinking to what we may get asked to provide. Hope this helps.

[JackThompson]

15 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

I stand to be corrected, but there indication was incorrect.

There is only a procedure to obtain a Non O based on marriage or retirement when you entered either Visa exempt or on a Tourist Visa. There is no procedure for changing or applying for a Non O based on retirement when you've entered on a Non O based on medical.

Per Immigration-Law, you can switch the reason for extension from any Non-Imm type to another w/o leaving the country for a "new visa,"  - but the reality on the ground, is Immigration want a big payoff to do it, unless switching between Retirement-based and Thai-Family-Based. 

 

This is the problem affecting many, including one of my options to stay.

[up-country_sinclair]

I recently submitted my Non-O extension application and it is currently "under consideration".  I'm expecting a phone call about a house visit in the next couple of days.

 

One thing that I found curious is that the start date of the extension is this week.  I read something recently which said that all extensions would begin on September 27th.  Am I confusing two different things, or should I bring this up with the immigration officers?  In theory, the 6 extra weeks in 2021 could end up very useful to me.

 

Thanks!

[Tanoshi]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

Not really ironic as it is not the only scenario. I was refused a 60 day extension because I had taken advantage of the amnesty, their perception, and was told I had until 26th Sept to apply for 12 month extension or would have to leave.

I did the extension yesterday, only hiccup was the Kor Ror2, that office never required a new one in the past. Wife was told it would be witnesses and and home visits every year.

Certainly getting more particular.

What office Sandy?

There are different reports of being refused a 1 year extension from a ME Non O Visa because of being on the amnesty extension. Alternatively applying for the 60 day extension then gives you a permission of stay not of the amnesty and 1 year extension applications are being accepted from that.

Total opposite of your experience.

 

Peter Denis is trying to compile case reports from various IO's when applying for 30/60 or 365 day extensions from the amnesty, but it relies on the member giving complete details of his circumstances.

i.e. Valid Non Imm O ME, or expired Non Imm O ME, previous 30/60 day extension and whether 1 year extension application accepted or refused.

For sure there are some abnormalities already appearing.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, up-country_sinclair said:

 

One thing that I found curious is that the start date of the extension is this week.  I read something recently which said that all extensions would begin on September 27th.  Am I confusing two different things, or should I bring this up with the immigration officers?  In theory, the 6 extra weeks in 2021 could end up very useful to me.

That is only for short stay extensions. One year extensions start from the day your current permit to stay ends.

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Per Immigration-Law, you can switch the reason for extension from any Non-Imm type to another w/o leaving the country for a "new visa,"  - but the reality on the ground, is Immigration want a big payoff to do it, unless switching between Retirement-based and Thai-Family-Based. 

Agreed Jack, however you only quoted part of my reply to 'Ryane66'

He was issued a 90 day Non O based on medical and the Thai Embassy led him to believe he could apply for a further 90 Non O based on retirement after entering Thailand at Immigration.

I suggested a 1 year extension based on retirement from his Non Imm O (medical) would be at the discretion of Immigration.

 

Technically you are correct, orders only state a Non Imm type Visa.

However IO's have been known to refuse 1 year retirement extensions from Non Imm B's, insisting on a Non O, whilst others have accepted the change of reason of stay.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Tanoshi

[sandyf]

13 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

What office Sandy?

There are different reports of being refused a 1 year extension from a ME Non O Visa because of being on the amnesty extension. Alternatively applying for the 60 day extension then gives you a permission of stay not of the amnesty and 1 year extension applications are being accepted from that.

Total opposite of your experience.

 

Peter Denis is trying to compile case reports from various IO's when applying for 30/60 or 365 day extensions from the amnesty, but it relies on the member giving complete details of his circumstances.

i.e. Valid Non Imm O ME, or expired Non Imm O ME, previous 30/60 day extension and whether 1 year extension application accepted or refused.

For sure there are some abnormalities already appearing.

  It was Sri Ratcha, believe Peter is aware of the circumstances. What I may not have said is my visa is still valid till 5th November.

[Ajooma]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is only for short stay extensions. One year extensions start from the day your current permit to stay ends.

My last retirement extension will expire on the 12th SEP 2020 and I recently extended my current retirement extension at CW in Bangkok on the 6th AUG and was given a new extension of stay permitted until the 26th SEP 2021.

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

However IO's have refused 1 year retirement extensions from Non Imm B's, insisting on a Non O, whilst others have accepted the change of reason of stay.

That is correct. A couple of years ago I wanted to change the renewal period on my extension so on a trip to the UK I came back on a SE non O, or so I thought. It wasn't until I arrived in BKK I noticed they had issued a Non B by mistake, not that it made much difference as I wouldn't have had the time to get it corrected in the UK.

I didn't think it would be a problem but when I went to get a retirement extension they refused and sent me to MFA to get it changed. The MFA agreed that immigration were right in what they did.

[Peter Denis]

14 minutes ago, Ajooma said:

My last retirement extension will expire on the 12th SEP 2020 and I recently extended my current retirement extension at CW in Bangkok on the 6th AUG and was given a new extension of stay permitted until the 26th SEP 2021.

> So it seems that CW did let your 1-year Non Imm O extension of stay for reason of retirement start from 27 September.

That Sept 27 start date was meant for short-term Visa holders applying for a short-term extension of stay.  But no need to complain, even on the contrary as their mistake provided you with an extra two weeks on your new permission to stay.

[Tanoshi]

6 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

> So it seems that CW did let your 1-year Non Imm O extension of stay for reason of retirement start from 27 September.

That Sept 27 start date was meant for short-term Visa holders applying for a short-term extension of stay.  But no need to complain, even on the contrary as their mistake provided you with an extra two weeks on your new permission to stay.

UJ was 100% correct, his new extension should have been dated from the end of his previous extension date. Immigration are completely misinterpreting the situation.

 

28 minutes ago, Ajooma said:

My last retirement extension will expire on the 12th SEP 2020 and I recently extended my current retirement extension at CW in Bangkok on the 6th AUG and was given a new extension of stay permitted until the 26th SEP 2021.

So effectively between his previous retirement extension expiring 12th Sept, CW granted an automatic extension until 26th Sept under the amnesty, then his new annual extension dated until 27th Sept 2021.

Obvious confusion between existing orders and the cabinet announcement.

[Ajooma]

15 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

UJ was 100% correct, his new extension should have been dated from the end of his previous extension date. Immigration are completely misinterpreting the situation.

 

So effectively between his previous retirement extension expiring 12th Sept, CW granted an automatic extension until 26th Sept under the amnesty, then his new annual extension dated until 27th Sept 2021.

Obvious confusion between existing orders and the cabinet announcement.

There is a clear note in red underneath my current extension pertaining to covid 19 (see attached file) and my new multi entry reentry permit also runs concurrently to the 26th SEP 2021 so that appears to be the way CW are interpreting the current ruling regarding retirement extensions.

[Peter Denis]

2 minutes ago, Ajooma said:

There is a clear note in red underneath my current extension pertaining to covid 19 (see attached file) and my new multi entry reentry permit also runs concurrently to the 26th SEP 2021 so that appears to be the way CW are interpreting the current ruling regarding retirement extensions.

Thanks for the report.

But this is clearly an error from the immigration officer handling your 1-year extension of stay application.  It is simply not possible that CW has adopted the policy that it will issue all 1-year extension of stay applications from now till 26 September, as starting from 27 September.

But as mentioned in my earlier post, no need for you to complain because the mistake is in your advantage and provided you with an extra 2 weeks on your permission to stay.

[Jenkins9039]

On 8/10/2020 at 10:47 PM, Okis said:

Did you ever use the covid/embassy letter extension that was used before the amnesty was implemented? 

No, i had a visa exempt.

 

It was extended at the end of Feb till end of March (before the amnesty and amnesty came in before it expired), and then i moved to the 60 days mid july when they said we needed to get over to our original visas or family (non im o).

 

Yet i've been there twice, and they keep stating, that because from end of may onwards i used amnesty i am not entitled to convert to a marriage 12 month ext, their argument has been that my visa expired during Amnesty (visa exempt), i renewed this by getting a 60 day in mid July, now they're stating that my prior visa exempt expired during the amnesty and (lock down period) and i should have converted to family before it expired (during the lockdown and the period they were telling people to remain at home and not come to immigration)...

 

Thursday will attempt another local immigration, after which if unsuccessful, will pay a agent (first time) and having invested millions of $ in this country i am somewhat disgusted, and at the same time, speak to a buddy at the BBC and see if they can shed some light on this <deleted>-show.

 

Should add i've been dealing with Phuket Immigration, used to have staff go and do this sort of thing, and when there, first time, one agent (boss) said impossible, when i went the second time, a different IMO was completing the process, when the agent (Boss) interrupted him and said, nah cant do, unsure if they're trying to push people down the agent route, but he said something along the lines ''this is making you crazy'', and ''have to wait till end of sep" = which by that time my 60 days would have expired lol, worst i am current mid-build of an extension (home).

[Tanoshi]

@Jenkins9039

Your obviously from the UK.

Was it your intention to remain long term in Thailand when you first entered Visa exempt in February, or was it because of the developing Covid situation you decide not to return to the UK.

[Peter Denis]

@Jenkins9039

Dreadful situation, and if feel for you.

It is more than strange that Phuket IO is not accepting your application for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa when you are on a still valid (till 12 Sept) 60-days permission to stay.  And using the 'virtual' overstay argument to deny your 90-day Non Imm O Visa application, must also be a First.

It also flies in the face of a recent CW case > application from a TouristVisa with expired permission to stay, who applied for his not yet used 30-day extension of stay as stepping stone to get the valid permission to stay to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa.  So there is a clear precedent here of someone having been on virtual overstay AND successfully applying for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa.

Imo temporarily relocating to a province with a more accomodating IO would be your best option if Phuket IO is not inclined to change its outerworldly stance in your case. 

Applying with your valid 60-day permission to stay at a different IO will as good as certain be accepted.  However, be aware that you still need to have at least 15 days (some IOs require 23 days) left on your current permission to stay when applying for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa.  So application needs to be done latest 28 August (or 20 August, if IO requires 23-day).

And of course you would need some time to 'shop around' for a more accomodating IO and rent a temporary place in that province, as you would need proof of residence to first do your TM30 (or TM27) relocation at that IO in order to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa.  Do you have by any chance friends/relatives in other provinces that might be willing to allow you temporarily to stay at their place (provided the IO in their province is willing to accept your application, which should normally not be a problem)?