Extend amnesty into 2021?

[anchadian]

18 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I think it all really comes down to how you interpret the September 26th date (not September 30th) in conjunction with

 

I believe it is a clear instruction by immigration to leave, and indicates that immigration (at least) does not contemplate a further automatic extension of the grace period to leave.

Exactly.  It all depends on how you read into this.  

 

Reading this infographic tells me that it's a final written answer on the amnesty extension.

Edited August 11, 2020 by anchadian

[sandyf]

Just now, BritTim said:

I believe senior officials are genuinely upset by what they see as foreigners taking advantage of the situation to just sit indefinitely in Thailand. If I am correct, those who just decide to sit tight and hope for the best are in for a rude awakening post September 26th.

Couldn't agree more, experienced it first hand yesterday.

[Barney13]

sandyf, what about all the family guys who earn 39k baht or less, or the guys who could not get together 400k in one week? Thousands of farang use  the Savannakhet/HohChiMihn non o visa who have not been given a chance here. You say just return to their own country then come back, talk sense.

[Bangkok Barry]

21 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

‘Air-borders’ are not closed for those wishing to depart.

 

The current regulations seems quite clear and many other countries have opened up. Flights can be taken back to ones home country. 

 

I suspect the people being afforded amnesty are those who can present a valid reason / evidence / justification for further extension. Of course, the gamble will always be how flexible Immigration will be with their extension (its likely people will need a letter from their Embassy and to obtain that letter you would need to show proof you have attempted and are unable to return within the current amnesty period). 

 

If I were on a current Visa Amnesty - I’d be making preparations to either sort out my visa situation, either directly if I could, or through an agent if I had to, or, I would be making plans to secure a flight to my home country (country of nationality). 

 

All you've written only applies to those who do not have a home/family in Thailand. Post #2 applies to others.

[ubonjoe]

32 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I think it all really comes down to how you interpret the September 26th date (not September 30th) in conjunction with

<snipped image>

I believe it is a clear instruction by immigration to leave, and indicates that immigration (at least) does not contemplate a further automatic extension of the grace period to leave.

Contemplation and reality can be very different things. 

Also that infographic is not really a official document. I hope to soon have a translation of a notification done by immigration (a page was missing from the first translation) that is signed by the head of the immigration bureau.

[anchadian]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Contemplation and reality can be very different things. 

Also that infographic is not really a official document. I hope to soon have a translation of a notification done by immigration (a page was missing from the first translation) that is signed by the head of the immigration bureau.

This infographic was released by the immigration Bureau.

[Max69xl]

21 hours ago, Tarteso said:

6 more months with the borders closed, Thailand will need to search for Petroleum under the stones.

Do you think oil comes into the country by land? FYI, Thailand is also an oil producing country, even if they import a lot because of an increasing demand. 

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, anchadian said:

This infographic was released by the immigration Bureau.

But that does no make it official. Only a signed document is official.

[anchadian]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

But that does no make it official. Only a signed document is official.

In that respect, I agree.  So why hasn't the 'offical' English translated document been released?

 

It would have saved so much speculation.

 

Waiting for the translated English signed doc.  

 

Thanks.

[JackThompson]

  

31 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Immigration can be overruled, but they have a lot of influence in this situation.

 

Those without firm permissions to stay extending past September 26th have a difficult risk benefit analysis to do. It is just possible that a further amnesty is contemplated, and immigration is scaremongering, trying to push people into the clutches of agents to generate income for themselves. On this occasion, that is not my reading of the situation. I believe senior officials are genuinely upset by what they see as foreigners taking advantage of the situation to just sit indefinitely in Thailand. If I am correct, those who just decide to sit tight and hope for the best are in for a rude awakening post September 26th.

You mean something like "time to clear out" remark from the immigration-spokesman before this last extension of the auto-extension system?  It is very likely he knew this "extension of the extension" was coming at that time, and wanted to maximize agent-revenue before it was announced.

 

But I do think it would be foolish to make bets on if they are bluffing again or not.  Best to make plans to move to the nearest country where one can enter and stay for awhile, unless willing and able to pay off immigration's extortion system. 

 

The latter risks the "agent" you deal with not sharing the loot with immigration (Thai Visa Centre case), leaving you in legal-trouble.  My wife doesn't want me to leave - but doesn't want me arrested, jailed, booted and banned forever, either.

 

I ended my lease and moved to a monthly apartment due to the delay in the announcement the last time. as they could not even give us 30-days notice of what was coming.  I was preparing to head to Turkey - and camp-out at the airport until a "real" flight materialized, when the "extension of the auto-extension" was announced.

[NanLaew]

21 hours ago, at15 said:

its pretty clear to me , "prepare for departing the kingdom within september 26, 2020" . they didnt have this last time. 

 

there are 47 days left. i would be doing something now, as waiting until the last moment could lead to flights being booked up and going into overstay. 

Nowhere in the last official announcement is there any suggestion of the need to "prepare for departing the kingdom within september 26, 2020"

 

Maybe you are still confused by the Immigration Department's suggestion late last month to end the amnesty 31 July and offer a 60-day 'grace' period until 26 September?

 

The CCSA, cabinet and PM did NOT approve that suggestion.

 

The existing amnesty was simply extended without any pre-conditions until 26 September.

[dxrdxr]

21 minutes ago, BritTim said: I believe senior officials are genuinely upset by what they see as foreigners taking advantage of the situation to just sit indefinitely in Thailand. If I am correct, those who just decide to sit tight and hope for the best are in for a rude awakening post September 26th.

After this “amnesty” is over, does anyone expect Thailand to change the tourist visa entry rules to match many other countries, to address these “upset” senior officials?

 

Countries like the USA have a (de facto) policy of no more than 180 cumulative days in the country within the last 365.
 

The previous year’s Thai land border limits (2 30-day) seem to be part of a reaction to the “upset”.
 

But will they go back to the older rule of 90 days in last 180 days?

 

[GeorgeCross]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

Nowhere in the last official announcement is there any suggestion of the need to "prepare for departing the kingdom within september 26, 2020"

 

Maybe you are still confused by the Immigration Department's suggestion late last month to end the amnesty 31 July and offer a 60-day 'grace' period until 26 September?

 

The CCSA, cabinet and PM did NOT approve that suggestion.

 

The existing amnesty was simply extended without any pre-conditions until 26 September.

 

how do you know that? not even UbonJoe has an english translation yet

 

*not having a dig, genuinely interested how you can be so sure

[Peter Denis]

12 hours ago, yinki said:

i came in thailand just before my child birth as a tourist , planing to gather all document to apply a support child visa. 

 

now that i have all document i need to get out of the country and back in to apply for my dependent child visa..

 

but how long will i be away from my family?

 

letting people apply to any visa without having to leave the country, it would solve many problem and there would be no need of an amnesty

Hi Yinki,

I feel for you!  Dreadful situation.

But one question > WHY do you need to get out of the country and back in to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of dependant child?

Is it because you are not a 'valid' permission to stay anymore of your Tourist Visa?  If that's the case, did you already use the regular 30-day extension of stay your Tourist Visa entitles you to?

If not, that could be your life-line as such an application will provide you with a 'valid' permission to stay again.

Also please note that what your local IO tells you is not 'gospel'.  In these unprecedented chaos times also IOs are struggling to cope with how to handle applications from applicants whose permission to stay already expired, and responses vary widely from one IO to another.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

how do you know that? not even UbonJoe has an english translation yet

A translation of the ministerial notice extending it has been been posted already on this forum.

Soon I will have the translation of the immigration notification done.

[Caldera]

1 hour ago, sitti said:

I just don't understand some people here. Thai government already gave you plenty of time to leave legally for those who aren't supposed to remain in the country for extended period. You were supposed to use your time given to make your own arrangement to leave. Have you even tried contacting your embassy? I see the complainers are just milking the amnesty.

There's nothing wrong with "milking the amnesty", as long as people have a plan B for when it ends. I was prepared to leave at the end of July, I had a flight booked - one that has a proven track record of actually taking place no less. But when they extended the amnesty, why should I have left? I prefer staying here, it's as simple as that.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

I was told at immigration that come Sept 26th the only further extension would be for medical or a letter from the embassy.

Of course that is not official but it would be wrong for anyone to be misleading people into thinking there will be a further extension when the possibility is obviously evaporating.

It is not out of the question for many on ME non O to return to the home country and come back again, money and hassle is the deterrent, neither of which is of any concern to immigration.

That option was my last resort and it really is time for people to be looking at their options.

And back towards the end of July, I was told at Udon immigration that they, like many other immigration offices weren't processing any extensions until after the official announcement on whether the amnesty would end (their recommendation) or be extended (government's recommendation and actual action).

 

That immigration infographic posted earlier is only getting the usual stress monkeys all worked up again.

[ttkeric]

Sigh.... I think some people still can't get it into their heads that this isn't a good time to be a tourist. Anywhere. Period. 

 

Sorry, but travelling for leisure is something for the back burner for the moment. 

 

Yea, yea, lucky me, "stuck" here in Thailand because I have a wife and kids here, so I have no choice but to extend my visa every darn year.  

 

I have things I needed to do back home, urgent matters but the situation is what it is.

 

Until this China virus thing dies down, expect the long haul. I was slightly optimistic earlier on but since this month I surrendered and accepted that we're all in for the long haul. I honestly don't think tourism will be back normal soon. Maybe by mid-2021 we might be some semblance of normalcy but I believe it will be at least 2023 before we are back to business as usual unless China unleashes another round of whatever. 

[anchadian]

9 minutes ago, Caldera said:

There's nothing wrong with "milking the amnesty", as long as people have a plan B for when it ends. I was prepared to leave at the end of July, I had a flight booked - one that has a proven track record of actually taking place no less. But when they extended the amnesty, why should I have left? I prefer staying here, it's as simple as that.

Let's hope you do have a plan B, otherwise your preference to remaining in Thailand will be at some other accommodation.

Edited August 11, 2020 by anchadian

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, easydoor said:

What are you hoping for? To stay 6 months more without a correct visa?

This will be the final amnesty, those what had to leave they had time enough to do so. There is NO EXCUSE anymore. Just do what you have to do, if you cannot..... just go.

For many of us, what we need is to be able to go out to a Thai Consualte - where corruption does not prevent a successful application - and obtain a proper Visa, so we can stay with our Thai families as before.

Alternatively - as a worst-case scenario - to be able to enter a nearby country, such as the PI or Cambodia, and stay there (no issues with immigraiton there, unlike Thailand) until Thailand's borders are open semi-normally, again.

 

52 minutes ago, sitti said:

I just don't understand some people here. Thai government already gave you plenty of time to leave legally for those who aren't supposed to remain in the country for extended period. You were supposed to use your time given to make your own arrangement to leave. Have you even tried contacting your embassy? I see the complainers are just milking the amnesty.

Evidently, you have not attempted to comprehend the situation of many here.  Immigration's corruption is blocking us from getting an extension, for which we legally-qualify.  

 

How can our embassy help us get another Non-O Visa and re-enter Thailand to stay with our families?
How can they help us force immigration to issue an extension for which we legally-qualify?
How can they help us get permission to enter Cambodia or the PI, where we could stay close to home, while we wait for Thailand to allow semi-normal entry procedures to return?

  

42 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Hypothetically, an immigration officer asks a foreigner, 'why don't you leave Thailand'?, and he answers, 'the borders are closed',  ...

... and the corruption-system prevents us from obtaining the extension(s) for which we legally-qualify (Non-B or Non-O, in my case). 

 

Immigration: "Go out for a visa or pay us $35K+ Baht in CASH.  Oh, you can't 'go out for a visa' to continue to support your family here because the borders are closed?  Gotcha - Pay Up Sucker!!!"  And you better hope your agent shares the loot with us, or you get jail +  a lifetime-ban preventing EVER living here with your Thai family, again."
 

42 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

the IO replies, 'you can leave by air anytime you want'. The foreigner says, 'tickets are very expensive now'.  ...

Yes, we can abandon our families in Thailand, and return to a country far-away, where we have exactly nothing but a passport with that country-name in it.   The next-closest option open now that I know of is Turkey, but that's just a 90-day option, then onward to who knows where from there.

[ThailandRyan]

21 hours ago, AndyAndyAndy said:

Only people who have valid reason to stay will be allowed to stay (NON-O + B). And everybody else abusing the system (tourist, education, volunteer etc.) will be forced to leave. And to be allowed to come back until country is opened for tourists again.

You forgot those with O-A visas

[Max69xl]

40 minutes ago, Barney13 said:

sandyf, what about all the family guys who earn 39k baht or less, or the guys who could not get together 400k in one week? Thousands of farang use  the Savannakhet/HohChiMihn non o visa who have not been given a chance here. You say just return to their own country then come back, talk sense.

Have you heard the comment from several immigration officers: "Get the correct Visa"! Do you think Thailand is the place to live and start a family in if you don't meet any financial requirements and the only solution is endless border runs? Vietnam has changed their visas from July 1 and Cambodia are on their way to change their visas. I think they've already started. I wouldn't be very surprised if it will happen here as well.

[JackThompson]

7 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Have you heard the comment from several immigration officers: "Get the correct Visa"! Do you think Thailand is the place to live and start a family in if you don't meet any financial requirements and the only solution is endless border runs? Vietnam has changed their visas from July 1 and Cambodia are on their way to change their visas. I think they've already started. I wouldn't be very surprised if it will happen here as well.

Cambodia and Vietnam do not run prohibitevely-expensive extortion-rackets on foreigners married to their citizens.   Also, no issues with visa-runs in either, pre-virus.

Having the proven-income isn't enough for Thai Immigration. It is to be the "right kind" of income to qualify.  Been there and done that.

 

And if you work here legally, they make you apply as if going for a Non-B (re-prove your work-permit paperwork, prove tax-payments were made which are not required by tax-rules, etc) - and won't let you switch to a Non-B via the BOI system w/o "going out for a new visa" (now impossible), or paying them off though their agent-partners.

Edited August 11, 2020 by JackThompson

[Max69xl]

5 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

For many of us, what we need is to be able to go out to a Thai Consualte - where corruption does not prevent a successful application - and obtain a proper Visa, so we can stay with our Thai families as before.

Alternatively - as a worst-case scenario - to be able to enter a nearby country, such as the PI or Cambodia, and stay there (no issues with immigraiton there, unlike Thailand) until Thailand's borders are open semi-normally, again.

 

Evidently, you have not attempted to comprehend the situation of many here.  Immigration's corruption is blocking us from getting an extension, for which we legally-qualify.  

 

How can our embassy help us get another Non-O Visa and re-enter Thailand to stay with our families?
How can they help us force immigration to issue an extension for which we legally-qualify?
How can they help us get permission to enter Cambodia or the PI, where we could stay close to home, while we wait for Thailand to allow semi-normal entry procedures to return?

  

... and the corruption-system prevents us from obtaining the extension(s) for which we legally-qualify (Non-B or Non-O, in my case). 

 

Immigration: "Go out for a visa or pay us $35K+ Baht in CASH.  Oh, you can't 'go out for a visa' to continue to support your family here because the borders are closed?  Gotcha - Pay Up Sucker!!!"  And you better hope your agent shares the loot with us, or you get jail +  a lifetime-ban preventing EVER living here with your Thai family, again."
 

Yes, we can abandon our families in Thailand, and return to a country far-away, where we have exactly nothing but a passport with that country-name in it.   The next-closest option open now that I know of is Turkey, but that's just a 90-day option, then onward to who knows where from there.

I wasn't talking about people with families. I was talking about those who are using the amnesties to be able to stay longer for free,and when suddenly realizing that they might have to leave by air paying for a quite expensive one way ticket, starts to complain about immigration. 

[utalkin2me]

5 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Have you heard the comment from several immigration officers: "Get the correct Visa"! Do you think Thailand is the place to live and start a family in if you don't meet any financial requirements and the only solution is endless border runs? Vietnam has changed their visas from July 1 and Cambodia are on their way to change their visas. I think they've already started. I wouldn't be very surprised if it will happen here as well.

People do have "the correct visas".

 

The irony to me about these comments is people living here and working outside of the country are making salaries commensurate with the countries they are traveling to, which in many cases is a lot higher than Thailand's. For lack of a better phrase, these "border runners" as you call them certainly are a higher class of resident when compared to a teacher or a senior citizen on a $1,200 per month pension. 

 

It just so happens it is very difficult to leave for work and come back right now. 

 

You infer too much with your post, and you have no idea or even the right to guess why people are leaving the country. You can't just assume "people have the wrong visa". 

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

I think it all really comes down to how you interpret the September 26th date (not September 30th) in conjunction with

 

I believe it is a clear instruction by immigration to leave, and indicates that immigration (at least) does not contemplate a further automatic extension of the grace period to leave.

That snip is from the Immigration infographic that was released BEFORE the last CCSA, cabinet and PM approved OFFICIAL and Royal Gazetted change on 29 July that makes absolutely NO mention of the 'grace' period and having to leave on or before 26 September.

 

Thanks for the wind up.

[Max69xl]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Cambodia and Vietnam do not run prohibitevely-expensive extortion-rackets on foreigners married to their citizens.   Also, no issues with visa-runs in either, pre-virus.

Having the proven-income isn't enough for Thai Immigration. It is to be the "right kind" of income to qualify.  Been there and done that.

 

And if you work here legally, they make you apply as if going for a Non-B (re-prove your work-permit paperwork, prove tax-payments were made which are not required by tax-rules, etc) - and won't let you switch to a Non-B via the BOI system w/o "going out for a new visa" (now impossible), or paying them off though their agent-partners.

Have you read about the new visas in Vietnam and Cambodia. I think not. They're are no more 3 months visas in Vietnam which you could extend in-country. When using an agent in Cambodia you can get a 1 year extension for little less than the equivalent of 10,000 baht. Cambodia are even about to start with their own TM30 reporting system which so many here complains about. So, move to one of those countries if you want. I prefer to pay 1,900 baht/year at immigration which every year takes less than 10 min. Don't talk about people not meeting the official requirements who pays for the stay using agents. It's up to them if they can afford it. Do you even live in Thailand? 

[anchadian]

4 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

That snip is from the Immigration infographic that was released BEFORE the last CCSA, cabinet and PM approved OFFICIAL and Royal Gazetted change on 29 July that makes absolutely NO mention of the 'grace' period and having to leave on or before 26 September.

 

Thanks for the wind up.

Let's wait for the official translated and signed doc shall we.

[Keyser Soze666]

My thoughts are I couldn't give a monkies what they do either way. I haven't even give it a second thought, and haven't even heard it come up with other 'expats' when out having a beer.

 

In the very unlikely event I have to leave this corrupt oven on the 26th Sept then so be it, bring it on, don't be shy.

[Max69xl]

10 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

People do have "the correct visas".

 

The irony to me about these comments is people living here and working outside of the country are making salaries commensurate with the countries they are traveling to, which in many cases is a lot higher than Thailand's. For lack of a better phrase, these "border runners" as you call them certainly are a higher class of resident when compared to a teacher or a senior citizen on a $1,200 per month pension. 

 

It just so happens it is very difficult to leave for work and come back right now. 

 

You infer too much with your post, and you have no idea or even the right to guess why people are leaving the country. You can't just assume "people have the wrong visa". 

"People do have "the correct visas".

If you work on for example an oil rigg,yes. But,there are loads of 90 days border hoppers with a Thai wife who don't work outside Thailand and are doing endless border runs.