Jump to content

Sciencemag provide direct evidence that pre-existing immune memory can be derived from exposure to #commoncold coronaviruses.


Recommended Posts

Science mag confirms that up to half of the population has immune memory from previous colds.

 

"T cells have been reported in unexposed individuals, suggesting pre-existing cross-reactive T cell memory in 20-50% of people. Using human blood samples derived before the SARS-CoV-2 virus was discovered in 2019, we mapped 142 T cell epitopes across the SARS-CoV-2 genome to facilitate precise interrogation of the SARS-CoV-2-specific CD4+ T cell repertoire. " 

 

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/04/science.abd3871

Edited by steelepulse
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

its nice to see studies being conducted without bias, agenda, and group think,

hope more is coming to sway the way of the current dumb policies

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so now that you have all read the report, please tell us what the conclusion is, because I don't think the person who posted it understands that it doesn't support his longstanding position on the infection.

 

1 hour ago, scammed said:

its nice to see studies being conducted without bias, agenda, and group think, hope more is coming to sway the way of the current dumb policies

It certainly won't be because of what this report says;

it is plausible to hypothesize that pre-existing cross-reactive HCoV CD4+ T cell memory in some donors could be a contributing factor to variations in COVID-19 patient disease outcomes, but this is at present highly speculative   😀😄

 

All that they are saying is that one can hypothesize that cross reactive  T cell memory may be a contributing factor in SOME blood donors. It's not a new idea.  Multiple papers have already been published that suggest cross-reactive T cell recognition between circulating “common cold” coronaviruses and SARS-CoV-2.  A parallel concept of interchangeability with the common cold corona virus is behind a couple of the  proposed vaccines.

 

 

There is no point throwing out references to research, if the people  posting do not understand what is being discussed.

Edited by geriatrickid
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Evidence I see here and in other reports is up to half the population already has some form of immunity to this due to being exposed to other coronaviruses.     I am not sure how you can't see it, but i would guess from the screen name and constant fear mongering, you are no spring chicken and should take all precautions.

 

Just to help you out some, here's plenty of charts and research from various government and medical reseach facilities.  Happy reading.

 

https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher/
https://twitter.com/covid_clarity?lang=en

Edited by steelepulse
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to emphasise, as geriatrickid has pointed out above, the finding of pre-existing T-cell cross-reactivity to SARS CoV-2, (apparently resulting from pre-exposure to other coronaviruses) tells you nothing about whether this is in any way protective against the disease COVID-19!

 

This is all complete speculation and not any kind of guarantee of positive effects at all. Scientists know this, but it seems the general public do not.

 

Immunologists warn continually that even immunity raised by a vaccine directly to the actual SARS CoV-2 virus itself may not be protective!  So how much more uncertain is it that immunity to different viruses will be protective?

 

It could do nothing, it could even make the disease worse.

 

A balanced article in Atlantic magazine based on consultation with immunologists working in the field explains this clearly: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/covid-19-immunity-is-the-pandemics-central-mystery/614956/

 

"There are also preliminary hints that some people might have a degree of preexisting immunity against the new coronavirus. Four independent groups of scientists—based in the U.S., Germany, the Netherlands, and Singapore—have now found that 20 to 50 percent of people who were never exposed to SARS-CoV-2 nonetheless have significant numbers of T-cells that can recognize it. These “cross-reactive” cells likely emerged when their owners were infected by other, related coronaviruses, including the four mild ones that cause a third of common colds, and the many that infect other animals.

 

But Farber [ Donna Farber, a microbiologist at Columbia] cautions that having these cross-reactive T-cells “tells you absolutely nothing about protection.” It’s intuitive to think they would be protective, but immunology is where intuition goes to die. The T-cells might do nothing. There’s an outside chance that they could predispose people to more severe disease. We can’t know for sure without recruiting lots of volunteers, checking their T-cell levels, and following them over a long period of time to see who gets infected—and how badly."

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, partington said:

Just to emphasise, as geriatrickid has pointed out above, the finding of pre-existing T-cell cross-reactivity to SARS CoV-2, (apparently resulting from pre-exposure to other coronaviruses) tells you nothing about whether this is in any way protective against the disease COVID-19!

 

This is all complete speculation and not any kind of guarantee of positive effects at all. Scientists know this, but it seems the general public do not.

 

Immunologists warn continually that even immunity raised by a vaccine directly to the actual SARS CoV-2 virus itself may not be protective!  So how much more uncertain is it that immunity to different viruses will be protective?

 

It could do nothing, it could even make the disease worse.

 

A balanced article in Atlantic magazine based on consultation with immunologists working in the field explains this clearly: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/covid-19-immunity-is-the-pandemics-central-mystery/614956/

 

"There are also preliminary hints that some people might have a degree of preexisting immunity against the new coronavirus. Four independent groups of scientists—based in the U.S., Germany, the Netherlands, and Singapore—have now found that 20 to 50 percent of people who were never exposed to SARS-CoV-2 nonetheless have significant numbers of T-cells that can recognize it. These “cross-reactive” cells likely emerged when their owners were infected by other, related coronaviruses, including the four mild ones that cause a third of common colds, and the many that infect other animals.

 

 

But Farber [ Donna Farber, a microbiologist at Columbia] cautions that having these cross-reactive T-cells “tells you absolutely nothing about protection.” It’s intuitive to think they would be protective, but immunology is where intuition goes to die. The T-cells might do nothing. There’s an outside chance that they could predispose people to more severe disease. We can’t know for sure without recruiting lots of volunteers, checking their T-cell levels, and following them over a long period of time to see who gets infected—and how badly."

Have a look at this link, then the links on this page that disagree with your statement. It's a short quick read.

https://threader.app/thread/1292873236716433416

 

Links referenced in the threader.app link include nature.com, medrxiv.org, sciencedirect.com and
medicalxpress.com

Edited by steelepulse
Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, steelepulse said:

Have a look at this link, then the links on this page that disagree with your statement. It's a short quick read.

https://threader.app/thread/1292873236716433416

 

Links referenced in the threader.app link include nature.com, medrxiv.org, sciencedirect.com and
medicalxpress.com

If cross t-cell immunity were as potent as you imagine it to be, then a prison population such as san quentin should long since have ceased to experience infections and high mortality rates. Yet that is not the case. Inmates and guards continue to die. If the mortality rate at San Quentin was extrapolated to the US population, that would mean that there would now be over 2.5 million covid 19 deaths. Hypotheses about what T-cell immune responses mean for herd immunity is all well and good. But hypotheses must explain reality, not contradict it.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-08-11/san-quentin-coronavirus-herd-immunity-covid-19

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, steelepulse said:

Have a look at this link, then the links on this page that disagree with your statement. It's a short quick read.

https://threader.app/thread/1292873236716433416

 

Links referenced in the threader.app link include nature.com, medrxiv.org, sciencedirect.com and
medicalxpress.com

You are simply quoting a blog from a person who makes the same incorrect assumptions that cross-reactivity equals protective immunity. It doesn't.

 

The linked references cited in this blog are to papers that show T-cell cross-reactivity to SARS CoV-2 is observed. This has already been made clear. These papers do not strengthen the case that this confers protection, and to suggest they do just repeats the same error.

 

Without studies showing actual protection against the disease is conferred by T-cell cross-reactivity, (which as yet do not exist) any protective effect is an unevidenced assertion. This is a quite simple concept.

 

[Incidentally though the MD (James Todaro) who is the author of the blog  you cite describes himself as "MD COVID-19 research" I could find no research publications at all by him on a Pub Med search, on anything related to immunology, or any subject, so assume he is largely unqualified to give an expert opinion.  Donna Farber (quoted in the article I referenced) has 111 publications on memory T-cells and disease.]

Edited by partington
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I came across something today on the subject of T cells

 

The company's trials found some people who had coronavirus but tested negative for antibodies went on to test positive for T cells - meaning more people may have some immunity than previously thought - and for longer.

 

Currently only a handful of laboratories across the world are equipped to test for T cells, and it is a "laborious" process with a lot of complex machinery, Dr Hindley said.

 

I don't know which 'specific' T cells they're looking for here and it doesn't go into any great detail in the article but these guys seem to know what they're doing...

 

There is a hint in the article though, they speak of antibodies being created on subsequent exposure so it sounds to me like they're talking about the CD4+ helper cells, the type of T cell that activate the B cells which produce the antibodies.

 

The idea being this will be a handy way to measure the efficacy of a vaccine and make that test routine instead of a long drawn out specialised process.

 

This is a nice development and it is a technological advance driven by the COVID crisis, which is nice!

 

This is from an article published Sunday, the source being : https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-53764640

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll show you my study if you show me yours. Always look at from where the funding derives, that will show you the outcome before even having to read the study.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...