Over 70s in Thailand

[David gilbert]

Avoid the bangkok hosp pattaya I had one stent fitted cost me £11,000 grand English, my UK doc said max £5,000 at Nuffield uk friend just had hernia op there cost 300,000 bht £4,000 quoted at Nuffield but they're not doing private ops their been taken over by govt. And full up with covid patients 

[PGSan]

16 hours ago, CanadaSam said:

I have done extensive research into this issue, and the best I have found is this company:  https://www.trawickinternational.com/

 

200 quid a month for a guy your age (73) from the UK, the plan covers you for just about everything (medical, repatriation, even trip cancellation, etc.) for a year at a time.

But what is the maximum length or stay for each trip?  Does this vary according to age?

[Bender Rodriguez]

21 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

 

What do you have in mind? Full coverage for 1000THB? Get real! Why should the Thailand take the risk?

If you can't afford it then you can't afford it. You are not the only person who wants something he can't afford. That's life, get used to it!

why why why

 

maybe because farangs living here support the local economy ?

 

I know for sure my tax on savings the government takes at the source is much more than 95 percent of thai people pay tax on income as most POOR don't pay anything at all but get healthcare FREE for life ...

[Oldie]

13 minutes ago, Knocker33 said:

What do you think a forum targeted at expats is for? 

I always thought it was for asking questions like this. Obviously not this forum thou said its full of....Feel free to finish the sentence 

You are okay? I never ever said that this forum is full of... And I gave you a reasonable answer when I write that the time here might come that at a certain age you will not find a health insurance here anymore. And if then you will pay a lot. This is the fear of many expats here. They might get a problem if health insurance gets mandatory for retirement extensions. And now take your pills... Very strange behavior from your side. 

[Surasak]

19 hours ago, Speedo1968 said:

If you are from the UK and are classed there as non-resident my understanding is, that you are not entitled to free NHS treatment and care for three months, should you decide to return there.   This is irrespective of the time you may have worked in the UK.

One of the requirements for retirement visas in Thailand is the 800K bank deposit, no doubt this is to ensure you could, if necessary pay off your hospital bill.

Traveling back to the UK could be very expensive depending on your condition and of course flight regulations could ban you from traveling anyway.

 

Not sure what will happen once UK leaves the EU, no doubt reciprocal health care agreements will stop.

 

Yes, it may not be fair that having paid private medical insurance for years and then no longer covered because of age but that's the way it is.   No doubt as the world gets more sick insurance premiums will rise.

 

"OP original comment " - Annual Insurance premiums in excess of $100k are not in my reach so my plan has always been to hop on the plane to the UK if taken seriously sick .   Do you mean insurance premium or cover ?     Do you mean dollar or baht ?    Just hop on a plane ... the airlines do not have to let you travel if they see you are sick.   A global rescue insurance may help but if you can't afford the 100k premium then it is probably out of reach.     What happens if there is another pandemic or similar that bars flights between certain countries, how would you hop on a plane then ?   It's an overall irresponsible attitude towards family, airlines, it's passengers and those concerned.

Hi Speedo, I have to pick up on your first sentence of non entitlement to NHS care for 3 months. IF, it is an emergency then NHS will treat you, in fact they will treat anyone from any country in an emergency. However, for a UK national, the hospital reserves the right to claim compensation. Some will and some won't, it depends on the hospital management. Further, while an inpatient, you may find your pension will be either withdrawn or cut considerably, again depending upon the hospital management. The same applies should you be imprisoned, your pension would definitely be withdrawn for the full term.   

[PGSan]

5 minutes ago, Surasak said:

. The same applies should you be imprisoned, your pension would definitely be withdrawn for the full term.   

Wow!  Another good reason for me not to get banged up!  ????

[rickudon]

I have a retired friend here who was on BUPA. Yes, he used it a couple of times, but when he got to 70 the premiums just became too high and he was beginning to bleed away his savings. After the next price hike he had no option but to give up health insurance. He has some health problems and would be very unlikely to find insurance now.. He is resigned to the fact that his twilight years will probably be brief.

 

Another friend is over 80 and has no insurance, fortunately reasonably well off. He originally was on an OA and was unable to get the new health insurance, had to go to Laos and change his visa (my advice). Fortunately he did this in February - not an option now!

 

I think the Thai government should provide some basic level of health insurance for expats - at least retirees who do not have a company paying for it. The private policies here are expensive and do not always pay up - also hard to get/stay insured when older.

[Oldie]

5 minutes ago, rickudon said:

I have a retired friend here who was on BUPA. Yes, he used it a couple of times, but when he got to 70 the premiums just became too high and he was beginning to bleed away his savings. After the next price hike he had no option but to give up health insurance. He has some health problems and would be very unlikely to find insurance now.. He is resigned to the fact that his twilight years will probably be brief.

 

Another friend is over 80 and has no insurance, fortunately reasonably well off. He originally was on an OA and was unable to get the new health insurance, had to go to Laos and change his visa (my advice). Fortunately he did this in February - not an option now!

 

I think the Thai government should provide some basic level of health insurance for expats - at least retirees who do not have a company paying for it. The private policies here are expensive and do not always pay up - also hard to get/stay insured when older.

Some retirement dreamers often realize too late that retirement here means that you have to take care of yourself. The Thai government has no obligation to help you. There is no social security for retired expats. And therefore it can get very expensive to live as retired expat here. Some might be forced to move back to their home country. 

[Thomas J]

21 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What do you have in mind? Full coverage for 1000THB? Get real! Why should the Thailand take the risk?

If you can't afford it then you can't afford it. You are not the only person who wants something he can't afford. That's life, get used to it!

OneMoreFarang who said anything about the Thai government taking a risk.  As it stands now EVERY PERSON ENTERING THAILAND REQUIRES $100,000 USD in HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE.  That is ludicrous to think that tourist spending a few day will opt to come to Thailand and opt to get an insurance policy outside of their country.  How about cruise ships who dock in Phuket for 1 day.  If the government is worried about a foreigner obtaining health care here and not being insured, simple.  Just charge 100 - 200 thb per entrant into the country for insurance.  Perhaps the charge is so much per month to cover those on longer stays.  If someone requires hospitalization, then the hospital bills the Thai government for reimbursement.  Simple and non intrusive and no risk to Thailand. 

 

[Kwasaki]

8 hours ago, Ron jeremy said:

At his age , it is a matter of time before he needs medical attention,

Well there's no escape from dying of natural causes, keeping an eye on your health is what I see as important.

Especially now for me when a Thai health insurance company gave me the elbow.

 

I was born in England so use to free hospital emergency care but not anymore, mainly because I never want to go back.

 

As said the system is unfair, I didn't pay into private healthcare insurance for long so it doesn't bother me.

Some others who have paid into private healthcare insurance for many years and are still paying should not be kicked out otherwise what's the point.

[mrwebb8825]

22 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

I am 52 and have thought that I would enroll in this global emergency evacuation flight insurance program so that I could be flown back to my home country when I need a major health care emergency.

https://www.globalrescue.com/

I just chatted with their rep online and he said it's only good if you have a permanent address in your home country (which I do not)

[Chainsaw]

21 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Hmm, you must have a hell of a lot of pre-existing medical conditions.  More than $8,000 in premiums every month?  I'm almost 62 and pay $200 per month for a $1 million+ annual coverage.

 

Or perhaps you mean 100,000 Thai baht?

Wait till you reach 70 simon43. Your premiums will rocket. I was paying around 20,000 baht p.a. for years (no pre-existing conditions) on reaching 70 I got a nice letter from the Insurance company saying my premiums were now 100,000 baht p.a. World renowned company. Happens to everybody. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Chainsaw

[Tony125]

https://product.thailife.com/

44 minutes ago, Oldie said:

Some retirement dreamers often realize too late that retirement here means that you have to take care of yourself. The Thai government has no obligation to help you. There is no social security for retired expats. And therefore it can get very expensive to live as retired expat here. Some might be forced to move back to their home country. 

Not totally true , for expats who have worked here and pay into Thai SS they can keep their health coverage after leaving  job by self paying into SS for less than 500 baht a month. Also some expats married to Gov workers are covered by their wife's plan.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Tony125
spelling

[Tony125]

https://www.theblondtravels.com/a-guide-to-buying-an-expat-medical-insurance-in-thailand/

 

https://www.thailife.com/ประวัติบริษัทฯ?lang=en  They also carry Health Insurance

 

Many banks have Health Insurance coverage if opening an account orgetting a credit card

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, Surasak said:

Hi Speedo, I have to pick up on your first sentence of non entitlement to NHS care for 3 months. IF, it is an emergency then NHS will treat you, in fact they will treat anyone from any country in an emergency. However, for a UK national, the hospital reserves the right to claim compensation. Some will and some won't, it depends on the hospital management. Further, while an inpatient, you may find your pension will be either withdrawn or cut considerably, again depending upon the hospital management. The same applies should you be imprisoned, your pension would definitely be withdrawn for the full term.   

 

I need to clarify this even further, you're right in saying that anybody can get life saving emergency treatment free at an NHS hospital, as you say that's available for anyone visiting the UK from anywhere in the world.
 

Speedo is wrong however when he states that an returning expat has to wait three months before being entitled to free NHS treatment, expats who are returning to the UK are entitled to free NHS services as soon as they arrive in the UK, though hospitals are supposed to seek proof that they are acutually returning and not just visiting.

 

It's worth reminding members that British Citizens who are not normally resident in the UK are charged 150% of the actual cost of ongoing treatment, even if they are still UK taxpayers.

[Oldie]

17 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

https://product.thailife.com/

Not totally true , for expats who have worked here and pay into Thai SS they can keep their health coverage after leaving  job by self paying into SS for less than 500 baht a month. Also some expats married to Gov workers are covered by their wife's plan.

Sure - but most of the expats here aren't in such a position. I had a friend with cancer here and without health insurance. The treatment here was so expensive (millions) that he had to leave Thailand after about 20 years. He went back to his home country where he had nothing. And this being sick and not very fit. I bought his condo here in Thailand (I had one already but he needed money quickly) and so he had at least some money. Shortly after he moved back he died. So not a long story. 

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Oldie

[meechai]

On 8/12/2020 at 5:45 PM, superal said:

Well a recent experience of minor illness would not have allowed me to fly and neither was I capable so my main plan is not feasible especially if the illness was more serious .........

If only the Thai Government could introduce an insurance policy for long term visitors  .  I would imagine there are plenty of others like me in the same position

 

 

 

All else aside I am just glad you realized this truth now

Many do not...They are the go fund me or the condo railing flying club ????

It is always surprising how many think it is no problem to go home if they have a major problem.

 

As for the second part about wishing Thailand would offer something.....

You have to realize the 70+ years old expats represent homes on fire to Insurance companies...

Who would want to sell fire insurance to such a group knowing it is nearly burnt?

 

Harsh I know but the sad reality Insurance is an odds game. Older folks wanting health insurance are poor odds to the Insurance Companies.

Edited August 14, 2020 by meechai

[Tony125]

21 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Most of us can get medical service in our home countries. Often free when we are old.

Is that not fair and good enough?

 

Do we all have a right to live wherever we want in this world and get medical cover for cheap or free? What next? 

Yes it should be that way. In my case I worked for US Gov that had private Health/life insurance as well as paying into SS/Medicare. Now retired my health Insurance covers me anywhere in the world and cannot be cancelled for age. Can only be cancelled if payments are not made. Life insurance the same. Even has an overseas number that can be called to verify to hospitals that they will  cover charges.

[Why Me]

Living here without major medical (inpatient) insurance is not a smart thing to do. Doesn't matter if you're a 70+ pensioner or a 25 year old crossfit champ. Accidents happen and a surgery with a few days in a hospital can mount to a million b. easily.

 

Re evacuation insurance a medical emergency might need immediate hospitalization. Then the patient has to be stabilized before they can travel. Again a few 100k in a decent hospital.

 

I would put health insurance up there with rent and visa costs on the list of expat essential expenditures. Not to be skimped.

 

I thought I saw a post of Sheryl's in the Med forum about EU-based insurance companies which cannot cancel for age. The premium might be a bit high but peace of mind is worth a bit especially as we grow older.

[JTXR]

I am currently in Thailand with the THB 400K long-stay insurance required for Non-Imm OA folks.  I expect that the insurance requirements for that group will be jacked up greatly (perhaps to US$ 100K?). 

If that happens, I expect I won't be able to afford it as I turn 70 next year, and I'll just have to return to my home country where I have very good coverage.  I'm already preparing myself psychologically for that eventuality.

[lorbhaim]

OP - Much same status.

77, my travel insurance ran out 5 months already.

Quoted 120k B for year to 400K B insurance.

Observed that it is a hell of good business I should get into making 10 times expected revenue.  

Estimated, by past experience, I could have saved some millions Bahts already.

 Decided: 

-  I will be my own insurance company.

-  I will do anything I can and needed maintaining and prevention steps of my health.

-   Keep away from hospital. Only private GOOD doctor sunless

indispensable. -- Sure I can end loosing on my insurance venue.????????☠️????.

Of

 

[JusticeGB]

I had insurance for $100k with a Lloyds insurance broker for £125 a month within 4 months it was £165 a month but that cover would expire at 80. I am 73. I now have insurance with WR Life for 5,900 baht a month with cover of 400,000 baht and that premium should stay the same until I am 80 when it will double. However they say that they will cover until I am 99. 400,000 should be enough for Government Hospitals. It only costs an extra 850 baht a year for an extra 100,000 baht of covid19 cover with Deves insurance. 

[muffy]

I am over 70 with health benefits for life ,I have anthem blue cross from calif. What will they accept as proof

just the cards?

[NoshowJones]

On 8/13/2020 at 10:56 AM, Oldie said:

"Is there an alternative solution ?" 

 

You can use Google and try to treat yourself. ???? The day might come when you will not be able to get an insurance. 

 

The big thing about health insurance for expats is that the insurance companies could and do take your money for years, and in a lot of cases people having no or very little claims, then they will tell you when you reach a certain age that you are too old and we won't insure you any more.

You are then left with no insurance at all, I blame the soldiers government for this for allowing this to happen, as the OP says, they should have an insurance for us, probably through a government hospital scheme for a fair price and none of this stopping insurance because we are "too old".

[NoshowJones]

On 8/13/2020 at 11:17 AM, trucking said:

 

Yes. Make sure you have a good credit card with as high a limit on it as possible.

 

Although a lot of credit cards come with some kind of insurance , medical care won't be one of them.

 

However, if you turn up at a hospital for expensive treatment  ( as happened to me , 120,000 bahts worth ) and have a decent credit card with good limit then it can be a life saver. 

 

You pay your bill with the card and then you can pay off the credit card installments at your leisure after you recover. 

 

When I was admitted , they checked out my card in 5 minutes then straight to my private room , passing half a dozen blokes on deaths door in reception whilst two secretaries tried on the telephone to confirm their insurance policies were up to the mark.

Yes, but how easy is it to get a credit card? Even a work permit does not always get you one. I was refused a credit card by the SCB, and I had a work permit. I immediately cancelled my account.

[trucking]

14 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Yes, but how easy is it to get a credit card? Even a work permit does not always get you one. I was refused a credit card by the SCB, and I had a work permit. I immediately cancelled my account.

 

I was thinking that most people will have one from their home country , given that most expats probably have one.

[NoshowJones]

23 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I do think it quite atrocious that someone can pay into an insurance policy for decades, not using it. Then once they are over 70 years old they are either kicked off the policy or priced out of it. 

 

 

I’m quids in so to speak.. I’m in insurance ‘deficit’... having been medi-vacced to Singapore from an Island some years back, with a follow up 10 days in hospital there. 

 

It’s an extremely difficult situation to be in. Wanting to have cover, but being priced out of options. 

Insurance companies simply do not want to insure older people - its bad for business. 

 

The whole system is wrong and desperately needs overhauling. 

 

 

The insurance companies are, and always will be the biggest crooks on this earth.

[geriatrickid]

I do appreciate that people face coverage  restrictions and  costs, and it has certainly been discussed at length on many threads.  However, there are solutions, but it requires some common sense. No one is obliged to use the published coverage formats. Think outside of the box. Nothing stops anyone from structuring coverage on a catastrophic care basis. Consider self insuring - Carry a higher retention or deductible. Nothing stops anyone for taking an annual deductible of  25,000 or 50,000 euro/USD/GBP.   You can also use the insurer as a self insured plan administrator: This works on the basis that the insurer  verifies the invoices and supervises treatment for an annual fee or a cost plus arrangement. Insurers  are able to obtain lower costs for procedures  that we cannot. They know the  invoicing tricks and can get reductions very quickly.

The reality is that if a person keeps making small claims, the coverage  won't be underwritten. Keep the coverage for a catastrophe and manage it as such and you can  find affordable coverage.

 

On 8/13/2020 at 12:37 AM, Tounge Thaied said:

I am 52 and have thought that I would enroll in this global emergency evacuation flight insurance program so that I could be flown back to my home country when I need a major health care emergency.

https://www.globalrescue.com/

 

medievac is included with most travel health insurance policies

[sanmyn]

Health insurance is just too expensive so I have been taking my chances.

I am from San Francisco and still have an address there.  I am now 85 

and have lived in Thailand for 24 years.

So far so good.

If I require hospital care, I hope to quickly end it there.

 

i have no health complaints and take no medication.  lucky lucky......

[NoshowJones]

21 hours ago, Speedo1968 said:

If you are from the UK and are classed there as non-resident my understanding is, that you are not entitled to free NHS treatment and care for three months, should you decide to return there.   This is irrespective of the time you may have worked in the UK.

One of the requirements for retirement visas in Thailand is the 800K bank deposit, no doubt this is to ensure you could, if necessary pay off your hospital bill.

Traveling back to the UK could be very expensive depending on your condition and of course flight regulations could ban you from traveling anyway.

 

Not sure what will happen once UK leaves the EU, no doubt reciprocal health care agreements will stop.

 

Yes, it may not be fair that having paid private medical insurance for years and then no longer covered because of age but that's the way it is.   No doubt as the world gets more sick insurance premiums will rise.

 

"OP original comment " - Annual Insurance premiums in excess of $100k are not in my reach so my plan has always been to hop on the plane to the UK if taken seriously sick .   Do you mean insurance premium or cover ?     Do you mean dollar or baht ?    Just hop on a plane ... the airlines do not have to let you travel if they see you are sick.   A global rescue insurance may help but if you can't afford the 100k premium then it is probably out of reach.     What happens if there is another pandemic or similar that bars flights between certain countries, how would you hop on a plane then ?   It's an overall irresponsible attitude towards family, airlines, it's passengers and those concerned.

"One of the requirements for retirement visas in Thailand is the 800K bank deposit, no doubt this is to ensure you could, if necessary pay off your hospital bill".

Yes, and then get kicked out of the country. Of course you could use an agent, that is if you are not one of the "scared of your own shadow" brigade.