Over 70s in Thailand

[KarenBravo]

17 minutes ago, nahkit said:

Why do you think that having the right to live a normal life with my family, the same as hundreds of millions of people throughout the world, is a joke?

"hundreds of millions of people throughout the world" within their own countries.

There. That's a bit more truthful, eh?

[nahkit]

16 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

"hundreds of millions of people throughout the world" within their own countries.

There. That's a bit more truthful, eh?

I didn't say they weren't did I?

[KarenBravo]

2 minutes ago, nahkit said:

I didn't say they weren't did I?

You were comparing yourself to people who's circumstances are not the same as your own.

Misleading at best.

[rumak]

On 8/13/2020 at 5:09 PM, Kwasaki said:

 

At 72 they said they had changed their policy and my annual renewal was refused. 

Whenever this topic comes up I say that my choice was to self insure........... i had insurance 30 years

ago, for two years.    Never had to use it but the inevitable price increase was presented.

Life is risk and reward.   I chose what the "gotta have health insurance" group say is the very risky

route.   My savings are in the millions of baht, safely tucked away,  and i don't have to worry about

whether someone will cancel or change their policy .  That is the company's right (even when they said they never would, right)   I chose to tell them where to shove it, and have never regretted it.  For those like me that don't have a large pension , and no inheritance coming ,then save save save. 

Next life i will choose some rich parents ....... but this life i am on my own.

 

[rumak]

6 hours ago, Raphael Hythlodaeus said:

I am 74 and in the same position as the OP. I used to have BUPA (now AETNA) health insurance but the premiums became too expensive so I dropped it and now self insure by every year putting the money I would have paid for insurance (and some) into a separate savings account.

Everyone knows the situation and there are no easy answers, so how about taking personal responsibility and stop looking to gummints to provide a solution. If for some reason you cannot afford to live in Thailand then face that fact.

yep, sooner or later some of us just say ....take your increase and shove it.    I did it some 30 years ago,

as i posted .     keep saving, keep healthy  !

[Raphael Hythlodaeus]

2 hours ago, nahkit said:

Why do you think that having the right to live a normal life with my family, the same as hundreds of millions of people throughout the world, is a joke?

The only "rights" you have are what you think you have. You don't have any except what governments say you have which can be withdrawn at any time. Like the current "right" (not) to travel, for example. I was not referring to your desire to live a normal life with your family. The joke is your belief that anyone in authority will listen to your "rights."

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, rumak said:

Whenever this topic comes up I say that my choice was to self insure........... i had insurance 30 years

ago, for two years.    Never had to use it but the inevitable price increase was presented.

Life is risk and reward.   I chose what the "gotta have health insurance" group say is the very risky

route.   My savings are in the millions of baht, safely tucked away,  and i don't have to worry about

whether someone will cancel or change their policy .  That is the company's right (even when they said they never would, right)   I chose to tell them where to shove it, and have never regretted it.  For those like me that don't have a large pension , and no inheritance coming ,then save save save. 

Next life i will choose some rich parents ....... but this life i am on my own.

 

Fair call but are you English. 

[rumak]

8 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Fair call but are you English. 

not sure why the question.  BUT,  if it pertains to currency exchange I would have done even better

than with my US dollars,   as i brought my life savings here 20 years ago

 

did i guess right ?    

[Kwasaki]

39 minutes ago, rumak said:

not sure why the question.  BUT,  if it pertains to currency exchange I would have done even better

than with my US dollars,   as i brought my life savings here 20 years ago

 

did i guess right ?    

Not really I'm English and have been bought up with free health care available so what I am trying to say entering Thailand was s different healthcare situation for me I don't have the kinda money put away as you do, glad you are where you are in life,  well done. 

[DogNo1]

could you kindly elaborate on using an insurer as a self-insure plan administrator.  I'm 77 and would be interested in doing that once I learn the details.  Certainly there would be deposits and fees involved.  I am presently self-insured in Thailand.

[rumak]

Just now, Kwasaki said:

Not really I'm English and have been bought up with free health care available so what I am trying to say entering Thailand was s different healthcare situation for me I don't have the kinda money put away as you do, glad you are where you are in life,  well done. 

The two countries that i know (probably others as well)  where one can also live with good health care are Canada and Australia .   My daughter , born in Thailand , now is an adult and lives in Canada.

Taxes are a bit high, but healthcare is great !  I may be there in my old old age  555

 The US system is s*** .   Medicare or whatever leaves more than a lot to be desired. Many retirees

are broke because of the health care costs.    ( besides, i really do not like the place )

When one learns how to navigate the health care in Thailand it is quite good and very cheap.

My nest egg is for the "big emergency"  that i try to avoid .  

Thanks for your kind words.   BTW:  i never made tons of money.  Just lived simply.  One can live

well and still save.... if, as the american saying goes, they are not trying "to keep up with the Jones"

 

 

[KarenBravo]

Just love the term "self-insured".

It actually means not insured.

[rumak]

16 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

Just love the term "self-insured".

It actually means not insured.

No, it means self reliant .    

 

I Know i can pay.  I need not fear that my expenses will be rejected nor that I will lose all

my false sense of security when some mafia company rejects my claim or decides that i am no longer worth their risk.

 

and what i do not love,  is that your main purpose on this forum is to present a negative response

to others posts.    try something original .   FYI:  being POSITIVE   means 

                                                                      not being negative

 

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by rumak

[nausea]

The real elephant in the room here is getting Alzheimers or something. I'm pretty sure my SO would do the right thing; are you?

[rumak]

3 minutes ago, nausea said:

The real elephant in the room here is getting Alzheimers or something. I'm pretty sure my SO would do the right thing; are you?

SO SO  

Edited August 15, 2020 by rumak

[simon43]

At 72 they said they had changed their policy and my annual renewal was refused. 

 

If you had elected to go with a European insurance company, then they cannot legally refuse to renew your policy, regardless of your claim history, (unless that option is in their 'small print').  It always pays to shop around, find the best policy for you and understand the exclusions etc.

[KarenBravo]

28 minutes ago, rumak said:

No, it means self reliant .    

 

I Know i can pay.  I need not fear that my expenses will be rejected nor that I will lose all

my false sense of security when some mafia company rejects my claim or decides that i am no longer worth their risk.

 

and what i do not love,  is that your main purpose on this forum is to present a negative response

to others posts.    try something original .   FYI:  being POSITIVE   means 

                                                                      not being negative

 

 

I've told you about the scroll bar before, but, you just can't help yourself.

As you have absolutely no idea what illness, or accident may happen to you in the future, you would have no idea what the total cost would be. Right?

I've seen figures of 500k and a million Baht bandied about. This may lull you into a false sense of security. What if you are unlucky and have to face a multi-million Baht end bill? You maybe able to cover it with your savings, but, would you want to? Much better and cheaper to have an insurance company pay it.

Having insurance reduces the unknowns, whereas not having insurance adds a major unknown.

I can put it into two words. Risk management.

 

As for what I do and do not post, that is none of your business. Why do you even think I care what you do, or do not love?

Edited August 15, 2020 by KarenBravo

[rumak]

45 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

If you had elected to go with a European insurance company, then they cannot legally refuse to renew your policy, regardless of your claim history, (unless that option is in their 'small print').  It always pays to shop around, find the best policy for you and understand the exclusions etc.

yes, it is always a good ,  or great idea to try to understand what those 4 pages of legalese that you must sign really mean .  They are written by very expensive lawyers to protect very profitable companies

that do not like to pay out.     Good luck winning when your claim is denied ,  and if you do you will

probably get more ill from the stress you have been through.

For me,  I would worry more about having to deal with an insurance company than having a heart attack,  and some million baht claim or two that people like to throw around.  Sure, it could happen.

BTW:   I also don't insure against the possibility of getting hit by a bus crossing the street .  Best advice i know is to read the fine print about how to be a healthy human being.  Seems to me that

most of humanity never read it.   Guess they are the ones that have health insurance ?

[Oldie]

44 minutes ago, rumak said:

yes, it is always a good ,  or great idea to try to understand what those 4 pages of legalese that you must sign really mean .  They are written by very expensive lawyers to protect very profitable companies

that do not like to pay out.     Good luck winning when your claim is denied ,  and if you do you will

probably get more ill from the stress you have been through.

For me,  I would worry more about having to deal with an insurance company than having a heart attack,  and some million baht claim or two that people like to throw around.  Sure, it could happen.

BTW:   I also don't insure against the possibility of getting hit by a bus crossing the street .  Best advice i know is to read the fine print about how to be a healthy human being.  Seems to me that

most of humanity never read it.   Guess they are the ones that have health insurance ?

Many insurance companies give you a good feeling for the premium until you need them. Had water damage in my newly renovated condo here in Thailand and some tiles got damaged. First they said it is normal wear & and tear. Then they said that they are old. And next they said that it was bad construction. My only way to get any money would have been to sue them. But I know that they have very good lawyers to deal with such horrible costumers. 

[bwpage3]

12 hours ago, Raphael Hythlodaeus said:

I am 74 and in the same position as the OP. I used to have BUPA (now AETNA) health insurance but the premiums became too expensive so I dropped it and now self insure by every year putting the money I would have paid for insurance (and some) into a separate savings account.

Everyone knows the situation and there are no easy answers, so how about taking personal responsibility and stop looking to gummints to provide a solution. If for some reason you cannot afford to live in Thailand then face that fact.

This is not realistic at all.

 

You pay for insurance so that the insurance company covers the bulk of the bill.

 

There is no way you can put away enough each month in your savings account to cover a major bill.

 

You may think you are saving what would be the premium each month, but you are getting no insurance benefit on the end.

 

You still get the full bill and what you are saving is not going to cover it.

 

EXAMPLE:

 

What about a major bill of 1,000,000 baht?

 

83,333 baht per month you would need to save, when you have no insurance.

 

 

 

 

[bwpage3]

7 hours ago, rumak said:

Whenever this topic comes up I say that my choice was to self insure........... i had insurance 30 years

ago, for two years.    Never had to use it but the inevitable price increase was presented.

Life is risk and reward.   I chose what the "gotta have health insurance" group say is the very risky

route.   My savings are in the millions of baht, safely tucked away,  and i don't have to worry about

whether someone will cancel or change their policy .  That is the company's right (even when they said they never would, right)   I chose to tell them where to shove it, and have never regretted it.  For those like me that don't have a large pension , and no inheritance coming ,then save save save. 

Next life i will choose some rich parents ....... but this life i am on my own.

 

You don't have a large pension, yet one major medical bill in the millions and you are wiped out forever.

[KarenBravo]

10 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

You don't have a large pension, yet one major medical bill in the millions and you are wiped out forever.

That's the name of the game. To not get wiped out.

[Raphael Hythlodaeus]

1 hour ago, bwpage3 said:

This is not realistic at all.

 

You pay for insurance so that the insurance company covers the bulk of the bill.

 

There is no way you can put away enough each month in your savings account to cover a major bill.

 

You may think you are saving what would be the premium each month, but you are getting no insurance benefit on the end.

 

You still get the full bill and what you are saving is not going to cover it.

 

EXAMPLE:

 

What about a major bill of 1,000,000 baht?

 

83,333 baht per month you would need to save, when you have no insurance.

 

 

 

 

I don't know how old you are, but at my age (74) the health insurance premiums are very expensive, even if you could find a company that would accept the risk. The insurance companies are there to make a profit for their shareholders, not for you.

I managed to obtain a 30 baht health card from a government hospital, but even without that the cost at Thai government hospitals is a fraction of that from private hospitals. A friend recently had an operation and 5-day stay at a Thai gov hospital and the total cost was less than 14K baht. Sure, the "service" left something to be desired, with long waiting times and uncaring nurses.

So I think it is you who is not being realistic. 

By the way, my health savings account would easily cover a 1-million baht medical bill. But that's because I considered this problem IN ADVANCE many years ago and took appropriate action.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Raphael Hythlodaeus

[twocatsmac]

11 hours ago, sandyf said:

Of course it had dropped, it had dropped 4 years previous when I retired but credit card companies take it that everyone will have a reduced income on reaching state retirement age.

The original point of trying to increase your credit limit prior to retirement just doesn't hold water.

I’ll be honest here sandyf, I think you’re clueless on this subject.

 

I HAVE (not tried) increased my limits as thousands of others have prior to retirement.

I gave an example of Barclaycard reducing credit limits, even more reason to up your limit now in case they strike. (I’ve just read this morning that reductions of £4000 are not uncommon).

 

As you stated in your previous posts, you had outstanding balances on your cards. Shrewd people pay up immediately and avoid interest charges.

 

If you had a poor credit rating, your problem, don’t assume everyone else has.

Your 5 credit cards might have looked flash in your wallet but worked against you, with only a few bob credit limit on them. Less cards is better here.

 

Ill also ask you to stop butting in on matters you clearly know nothing about and Ill say one more time, myself and many thousands of older retirees have increased limits on cards prior to retirement.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by twocatsmac

[rumak]

2 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

You don't have a large pension, yet one major medical bill in the millions and you are wiped out forever.

A farang neighbor had a 4 way bypass done at a major private hospital in Chiangmai.  Total cost 400k

baht.    I guess i would need something like that, plus maybe a liver transplant, maybe hip replacement,

hmmmmm   let's see     does that get me to "millions "         oh , heck    just kill me

 

(can't believe I answered this troll )    ????????????

[expat1010]

The older you get the more difficult, expensive and important health insurance becomes. Eventually insurance is either unavailable or unaffordable given preexisting conditions. I changed from a retirement visa to a 6 months tourist visa a few years back because of the insurance issues. While I can still easily afford insurance either as an expat or a tourist, the day will come when I cannot (75 years is my estimate). So I kept a house in my home country and just rent a place in Thailand. Will probably buy a small house when I can return as there are some nice bargains coming up in the area where I stay most often, thanks to Covid and the shutdown. My dreams of retiring in Thailand have adjusted to the reality of old age and now I am just 6 months here and 6 months away. Works fine for me and I have complete peace of mind when it comes to accident and health insurance.

[sidjameson]

16 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Bad for business?? What about public service? No one expects any company to operate on a loss, but they could cut their enormous profits a bit.

Which insurance company? I will buy their stock.

[Peter Denis]

10 hours ago, Raphael Hythlodaeus said:

...

The insurance companies are there to make a profit for their shareholders, not for you.

...

I agree with the rest of your post #43 and even gave it a Like.

But the statement that insurance companies are there to make a profit for their shareholders, not for you is a typical US 'free enterprise for profit' point of view. 

And it doesn't need to be that way.

In Europe many insurance companies are 'co-operatives' originally founded to provide assurance for their members.  Of course they cannot operate at a loss, but several of these are operating as a non-profit, even sharing any profit they make with their customers (yes, the profit they made in the year before, is deducted from the annual premium you pay). 

Such insurance companies don't have an interest in denying your claims just to boost their profits, but use a fair process to evaluate any claims you make to ensure the insured gets what he is entitled to, and to avoid fraudulent claims (which harm all the stakeholders, and will ultimately be reflected in the fair insurance premiums those co-operative insurance companies have to charge).

In many European countries there is also the 'dreaded government meddling' which prohibits commercial insurance companies to use fine print in their policies that goes against fair practices (like kicking out their customers at a certain age, or applying excessive premium-raises when getting older, etc.).  

And guess what, even the commercial insurance companies operating in such regulated landscape to protect those that subscribed to their policies, are still making a healthy - but not excessive - profit.

Same goes of course for government regulated maximum prices for drugs or medical services like surgery.  Health-care is simply too important to have it hi-jacked by organizations that are only in it for the money.  Health-care for profit leads to excesses, prosperity for all stakeholders should be the guiding principle and that will often require government regulation.

Some will brand me a pinko socialist or communist, for being in favor of such regulation, and if so then I will proudly carry that label.  

[sandyf]

11 hours ago, twocatsmac said:

I’ll be honest here sandyf, I think you’re clueless on this subject.

It is the height of arrogance to think you know someone's affairs better than they do.

You are quite free to believe what you want, doesn't make it fact, and inappropriate to try and advise on that basis.

It is a fact that lending institutions recognise retirement for what it is.

[superal]

20 hours ago, Sheryl said:

No, $932.68 a month works out to just a little over $10,000  a year not $100,000. You're off by a factor of 10.

 

And this (10k) is way more than necessary. At age 65-70 you can get good cover for about $3-4,000 a year. Rises to $4-5,000 once past 70.

 

The quote you list is inclusive of maternity. Hardly what an older person needs. Nor do you need unlimited benefits; for Thailand a 500,000 - 1,000,000 cap is plenty. I am not sure which company this is but they will surely have less costly plans.

 

Contact a good broker specializing in ecpat insurance in Thailand like AA  www.aainsure.net

Hi Sheryl , Apologies to all for the " too many zeros " . I am sure you know that a standard quote will include items that are not required e.g. maternity and of course when that is removed and existing ailments are included the final premium will be different . I have pasted another quote below from Cigna which you will notice highlights daypatient only but then says total cancer cover , is that possible ? . When it comes to insurance I try to avoid the " too good to be true cheap policies " , always have fully comprehensive on motor policies as an example as insurers will go through every nook and cranny to avoid a payout . To get the level of health cover that I want may be too expensive and so I could alter my living arrangements and 6 months here and same in the UK and a good travel insurance will exceed the benefits of pure health insurance . I have approached aainsure for their quote and am waiting for a reply .

Dear alan  Thank you for your interest in our Cigna Global plans To proceed with your quote or to discuss in more detail, please contact us on +44(0)1475 492119 (outside of US) or 877 539 6295 (inside the US).

Your Core Quotes

Silver Worldwide $552.15 per month The core benefits on the Silver plan provide international inpatient and daypatient cover, including hospital stays and treatment.  Annual benefit limit: $1,000,000  Inpatient, daypatient & accommodation costs - Paid in full for semi-private room  Total cover for cancer  No maternity  No Travel Safety service APPLY & BUY

Gold Worldwide $708.84 per month Comprehensive coverage, with higher overall annual limits and added benefits including inpatient maternity care.  Annual benefit limit: $2,000,000  Inpatient, daypatient & accommodation costs - Paid in full for private room  Total cover for cancer  Routine inpatient maternity cover - 100% up to $7,000  Travel Safety service APPLY & BUY

Platinum Worldwide $932.68 per month Our highest level of coverage offers an unlimited overall annual limit, with most benefits being paid in full.  Annual benefit limit: Unlimited  Inpatient, daypatient & accommodation costs - Paid in full for private room  Total cover for cancer  Routine inpatient maternity cover - 100% up to $14,000  Travel Safety service