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Explainer: Pandemic behaviour - Why some people don't play by the rules


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7 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Please tell us how you would have mitigated the costs of a wide scale infection. You are good at criticizing. Fine. Now tell us how you would have kept society running as large portions fell ill and essential services and supplies were disrupted. Tell us how you would run a hospital without PPE and with much of the hospital contaminated and understaffed.  

I would have let the seriously ill die.

No point shutting the world down to protect a few old folks from dying a couple of months early.

And even then they could have protected the old folks at risk by isolating them and testing carers in nursing homes.

Not sure where your 'large portions fell ill' from, most people have no symptoms at all, more have flu like symptoms.

 

If you're frightened, stay at home alone, order all your supplies online, disinfect when they deliver.

Your fear of infection doesn't need to affect my life.

Edited by BritManToo
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2 hours ago, englishoak said:

The only thing preventing me from travelling to Thailand is the Thai government nothing else. I have travelled all over the globe to many regions where risks are high and numerous disease is rampant, fear of what I determine are acceptable risks never stopped me doing anything. Have they eradicated TB ? nope and your wrong about waterborne disease, it can be transmitted when people move around. The worlds a dangerous place, heck living in Thailand is far more a risk to ones health than back in the UK but an acceptable risk imo, we can agree on that obviously. 

 

I absolutely recognise i care primarily about my personal comfort and needs and my family, everyone does and saying anything else is a lie. A 70 year old is usually retired and dosnt run business or have employees and hopefully have children grown and in work. I do not have the luxury of a pension yet or a sugar daddy, I work, employ others and have responsibilities I have to balance with making a living,  i fully expect to contract the virus at some point. You seem to forget that 90% or more infected get mild to little symptoms, it is a very very small minority that is at high risk. It would make far more sense to protect those at highest risk and let the rest get on with life paying the taxes keeping business running and employees in work. Ring fence and isolate the risk groups, old and infirm etc by all means but the rest need to get back to life asap. Unforeseen casualties are normal and regrettable but thats life.  

 

For every serious case highlighted and paraded on the media there are hundreds of thousands who have little problems and recover fast, no ones making headlines about that though as it dosnt sell the fear and that is just the documented cases, according to the models and estimates there are probably millions of others who wont ever know they have had it...but they will have antibodies and like all the rest of the viruses herd immunity will and is the most effective longterm solution, I do not believe in the vaccine claims as being practical or likely effective, I do believe in our immune systems to adapt and overcome, yes people die and its regrettable but thats a guarantee in life, its only a question of how and when, I do not spend my time worrying about it for myself so no i dont concern myself about the world in general either, if that makes me selfish then so be it, the world does not have time for me nor I in general for it. This is how life really is and I do not pretend otherwise just because the media and propaganda says to now. My life is not yours or any others to command, I simply reject living my life on others terms. 

 

I get you have bought into the hysteria and fear the virus, many have and do whereas I havnt and do not... I fully expect to contract it at some point and will deal with it when I do, at that point I will isolate and almost certainly recover but your wrong about being selfish, on the contrary im being realistic, you cant and imo shouldnt try to protect 100% for 1% at risk, they could put all resources into ring fencing the most at risk, that would make sense to me rather than destroying entire industries and economies.  More will die and have lives destroyed from the measures than the virus in the longrun imo  The faster people get used to living a normal life as possible despite the virus the faster the world gets back on its feet..

 

Btw im not ageist in the slightest, im in my mid 50s and have family and friends in their 70s to 90s, most are pragmatic and accepting this is just another thing that might kill them but getting on with life as best they can despite the madness and panic going on out there. I dont see myself or views as selfish, just realistic and stoic. 

 

I am going to assume your post 70 from the way your talking, I wish you well and long life but I will not live my life on your or anyones elses terms or demands because your scared of something that I am not, that to me is the height of entitled selfishness. 

 

Have a good evening

I think this post was much better thought out than your first post. This was much more even handed and was far less 'tin foil' than the first. A couple of points though you should consider; 

1. Herd immunity is not likely unless there is a vacine. In most other wide spread diseases (measles, flu etc) the vacine allows for herd immunity. Sweden is trying the herd immunity approach and unfortunately is nowhere near the 60-70% it needs to be able to say herd iummunity has been acheived (I think it's only at 6 or 7%).

2. As I pointed out in one of my earlier posts, without isolating, lockdown, social distancing, face masks etc, it is estimated the worldwide death toll from C19 would be in excess of 7 million. That is not a number to be sneezed at (excuse the pun).

 

However that is all I am going to point out in your post as I pretty much agree with everything else. This pandemic can and should have been handled much, much better than it has. Both S. Korea and Taiwan had the right idea; both acted early and decisively, quickly putting in travel restrictions followed by screenings, identifying, tracing and strict quarantining. They never waited around for a non-existant herd immunity to emerge (which I have already pointed out is only reasonably pluasible once a vacine has been found) and didn't run their economies into the ground as they didn't need to lock down. They isolated their 'most at risk' and just put in place tried and trusted routines learned from when they were combatting SARS, H1N1, MERS and Ebola. Every other country also had the ability to mimic these methods but as in the case of the UK, US and most of Europe, they dithered in the crucial initial weeks and even now are not following guidance (why is wearing a face masks still a debate). They still haven't isolated their most vulnerable and still struggle with basics such as PPE. It's an absolute joke.    

Like yourself, I'm in my early 50's and run a business in Thailand. I employed 50 Thai staff and so far have had to let 10 of them go. With no end to the lockdowns from other countries in sight, I am very fearful of both their's and my future. Thailand has minimal infections and minimal deaths (thanks to some good stuff done early by the Thai government) yet we all have to sit and wait whilst countries that should know better (you know, the supposed 'advanced' Western economies) flounder from one debacle to the next. It's frustrating and super worringing so I hear and sympathise with your thoughts, however I don't blame the media and I don't blame people for 'buying into the hysteria'; that's an unfair accusation brought around from frustration. I do however blame blame Boris and his cronies for a terrible response leading to the second highest per capita death rate and I blame the likes of Trump for ignoring, minimising and politicising this pandemic, the same with Bolsonaro and other idiots off his ilk. If all countries had done the right thing which is exactly your suggestion of 'shouldnt try to protect 100% for 1% at risk, they could put all resources into ring fencing the most at risk, that would make sense to me rather than destroying entire industries and economies.' then none of us would be in this situation. 

So lets point our anger where it is justified and take to task the people who have put us all in this situation through incompetance, negligence and downright lying.

Suprise, surprise, it's the politicians.    

 

Edited by johnnybangkok
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On 8/13/2020 at 5:24 PM, richard_smith237 said:

This makes a lot of sense... 

 

It seems to me that the Brits and Americans have some sort of subconscious anarchistic impulse to at first question anything official and then fight the consensus. 

 

 

Too true !   How many weeks ago was it that thousands fled to Bournmouth beach for the day because they didn't like being told to employ spacial awarenes  hmm ?

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On 8/13/2020 at 5:03 PM, BritManToo said:

A major factor with me is not believing COVID is significant.

If the bodies were piling up in the streets I'd probably be a be more careful.

But the chances of it hurting me is less likely than getting run over walking across the road.

 

After a while you get used to ignoring nutters shouting 'the sky is falling'.

(BSE, SARs, Swine Flu, HIV, global warming, seas rising, peak oil, etc.)

After a while you get used to ignoring nutters shouting 'the sky is falling'.

(BSE, SARs, Swine Flu, HIV, global warming, seas rising, peak oil, etc.)

 

A sort of live and let live...

Plastics, oil, garbage etc. in the sea is fine?

Cutting down forests... plenty more...

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On 8/14/2020 at 2:07 AM, englishoak said:

Nope. The sky was never falling in its just the hysteria pretending it is/was... 99% survival rate is pretty acceptable to me.. but im not fat or have other underlying conditions nor scared of dying so.... and no I dont wear a nosebag.

If you were part of the 1%+an in the high risk, highly likely to die, category, I wonder if you'd still have the same 'I'm alright jack' attitude??? 

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45 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

How high would the body pile have to be exactly before you would "probably be a bit more careful"? Would the fact that some of the bodies were your family or friends influence the height decision? How probable is it that either of these factors would influence your choices? Just curious since you framed the question so eloquently. 

 

Many of the problems facing humanity today such as global weather change, massive government debt, water shortages,

I'm the oldest one in my family, and my death probably wouldn't make a difference to anyone, certainly not me.

But you feel free to cower in your room alone, I'm living my life while I still have it. 

 

Global weather change ............ irrelevant, nothing we can do one way or the other.

Massive government debt ........... they can just print more money.

Water shortages ......... haven't seen any, torrential rain at the moment.

These are all the concerns of nutters crying the sky is falling.

Did you forget peak oil and worldwide famine predicted for the early 2000s ..... didn't happen, the world is awash with food and oil.

 

How many cries of 'the sky is falling' do you need to hear before you learn they're all bogus predictions to control you through fear?

Edited by BritManToo
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1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I'm the oldest one in my family, and my death probably wouldn't make a difference to anyone, certainly not me.

But you feel free to cower in your room alone, I'm living my life while I still have it. 

 

Global weather change ............ irrelevant, nothing we can do one way or the other.

Massive government debt ........... they can just print more money.

Water shortages ......... haven't seen any, torrential rain at the moment.

These are all the concerns of nutters crying the sky is falling.

Did you forget peak oil and worldwide famine predicted for the early 2000s ..... didn't happen, the world is awash with food and oil.

 

How many cries of 'the sky is falling' do you need to hear before you learn they're all bogus predictions to control you through fear?

Ahh the wonderfully cavalier attitude of the older generation, who have drained the world of its resources and are just sitting back with a “f&ck you, I’ve had my time, why should I worry” stance. 
Well some of us have hopefully a few more years and more importantly, young children to worry about so you’ll forgive us if we do pay attention and at least try our best to sort some of the things out. 

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On 8/15/2020 at 2:22 AM, thaibreakfast said:

Nothing at all to do with Trump having consistently denigrated mask-wearing? Even now, he violates the White House's own guidelines. He politicized public health issues.

No nothing to do with Trump at all. We are not robots that follow what any president does or doesn't do but thanks for making this political

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The real question is why so many believe/follow such irrational orders regarding covid. But we already have scientific answers to that: 1) unquestionable submission to authority 2) hypochondria

I would also add laziness or limited intellectual ability to overcome the huge propaganda/censorship and form a real opinion (not the one spoon fed to us)

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33 minutes ago, LiveKiss said:

The real question is why so many believe/follow such irrational orders regarding covid. But we already have scientific answers to that: 1) unquestionable submission to authority 2) hypochondria

I would also add laziness or limited intellectual ability to overcome the huge propaganda/censorship and form a real opinion (not the one spoon fed to us)

Ahh another one who knows better than the experts. Can you tell us exactly which branch of epidemiology you specialise in please? 

 

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