Non O Multi - Amnesty - Refused extension!

[JonoM]

Hi

 

I have just visisted Immigration (Si Racha) with my wife to check that I had all the necessary paperwork in order to apply for a new visa/extension (that I would apply for on 12 September) and I was told that I am infact an overstaying and that I have to leave the country on the 27 September. So I am a bit shocked and bewildered. Have I completely misunderstood everything that I have read about the amnesty??

 

I have a Non-imm O Visa based on marriage obtained from HCMC which expired on 21 Aug 20. My permit to stay expered on 15 May 20, so I have been staying here under the visa amnesty and I had thought that I had until 27 September to sort something out. My intention was to apply for either an extension to my stay or apply for a new visa (whichever they allow?) using the 400k in the bank method. On 11 July I had 400k depsited in my bank account, enabling to apply on the 12 September, or so I thought.

 

I obviously queried thier interpretation of the Amnesy Rules. They called the Bangkok Head Office and also spoke to their boss and insisted that they were correct. They said that I should have come in earlier and that I had not properly prepared myself and that the amnesty was not meant to be for people like me, rather for tourist that were stuck here. I explained that I could not have know that the borders were going to be shut and for how long etc!

 

Please can anyone tell me if they have had a similar experience to this or not? Have I completely misunderstood everything about the visa amnesty? Any suggestions as to what I can do next. Is there anyone I can appeal to at the Bangkok Head Office? Is there any documentation that I can show them to correct their view of my situation. Would an agent be able to help? Why is nothing simple here? Feeling very frustrated. I have lived here for 10 years, I have a Thai wife and daughter and have now been told that I have to leave the country during this time a crisis! Hope someone can offer some useful advice.

 

Thanks

[ubonjoe]

They are certainly not correct when they say you are on overstay. The are just trying to make things difficult.

There are other offices accepting applications from people in a similar situation as yours.

Perhaps try to apply for a 60 day extension to visit your wife.

[DrJack54]

I'm confused. You had a valid permission of stay till May 20. Why didn't you obtain a 12 month extension prior to may 20.

Obtain a 60 day extension visit wife/family and then obtain 12 month extension. Obviously have all your financials in place to satisfy imm.

Edited August 27, 2020 by DrJack54

[JonoM]

Just now, DrJack54 said:

I'm confused. You had a valid permission of stay till May 20. Why didn't you obtain a 12 month extension prior to may 20.

Because at that time i did not have 400k in a Thai bank account to apply for an extension. As soon as I was able, I transferred the money into my account which was on the 11 July. Under normal circumstaces I would have left country and come back.

[JonoM]

25 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They are certainly not correct when they say you are on overstay. The are just trying to make things difficult.

There are other offices accepting applications from people in a similar situation as yours.

Perhaps try to apply for a 60 day extension to visit your wife.

Thanks Joe. Yes, I could try that, but not optimistic, giving what they have just told me.

Edited August 27, 2020 by JonoM

[DrJack54]

Just now, JonoM said:

Because at that time i did not have 400k in a Thai bank account to apply for an extension. As soon as I was able, I transferred the money into my account which was on the 11 July. Under normal circumstaces I would have left country and come back.

The good news is that you now have the money in bank. So your office is requiring a current permission of stay in your passport. 

Attend you office outline your plan to obtain 60 day extension to visit wife and then apply for annual extension marriage.

If they say no problems (they should) then you can apply for 60 day on the spot.

[JonoM]

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

The good news is that you now have the money in bank. So your office is requiring a current permission of stay in your passport. 

Attend you office outline your plan to obtain 60 day extension to visit wife and then apply for annual extension marriage.

If they say no problems (they should) then you can apply for 60 day on the spot.

OK. Thanks DrJack. I'll go back there tomorrow to give this a try, but I'm wondering if this is an option, why they didn't suggest this themselves? I will give it a go though.

[DrJack54]

Just now, JonoM said:

OK. Thanks DrJack. I'll go back there tomorrow to give this a try, but I'm wondering if this is an option, why they didn't suggest this themselves? I will give it a go though.

Often they don't suggest. Some would like you to use an agent.

On that point don't rule out an agent if nothing else pans out.

Good your going tomorrow, if no joy then you still have time agent path.

Can't see them rejecting 60 day extension to visit wife. 

[misterphil]

21 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

I'm confused. You had a valid permission of stay till May 20. Why didn't you obtain a 12 month extension prior to may 20.

Obtain a 60 day extension visit wife/family and then obtain 12 month extension. Obviously have all your financials in place to satisfy imm.

Why the confusion? I am in the same position as the original poster and when I went to do my 90 day they told me I don't need to do anything during the amnesty. 

[JusticeGB]

Sadly different officers within the same office will interpret the rules differently. The guy on the phone in Bangkok didn't have your passport in front of him and therefore couldn't have made a truly informed decision. The problem you have is that the Immigration Office you went to did ring Bangkok and if you personally went back again I think it's likely that you will get the same answer. In your shoes I would use a reputable local agent to do the legwork. It will certainly cost less than returning to your home country and having to wait until at least November until you "maybe" allowed to apply to come back. 

[Bigz]

23 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

I'm confused. You had a valid permission of stay till May 20. Why didn't you obtain a 12 month extension prior to may 20.

Obtain a 60 day extension visit wife/family and then obtain 12 month extension. Obviously have all your financials in place to satisfy imm.

So if someone used up the 60 days 'visit wife' extension can still get a year extension on top of that? I see conflicting reports, some people here on tv said that once you used up your 60 days extension you can't get a further annual. 

[lopburi3]

18 minutes ago, Bigz said:

So if someone used up the 60 days 'visit wife' extension can still get a year extension on top of that? I see conflicting reports, some people here on tv said that once you used up your 60 days extension you can't get a further annual. 

From several reports today you may be able if you visit immigration prior to September 11 and request official permission to stay until the 27th.  This seems to reset your status to legal from what they seem to consider overstay without fine (amnesty) and may allow normal extension of stay.  It it not clear yet but appears may be an option for some so worth a try - but time is short as have long holiday coming up next weekend.

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by lopburi3

[Bender Rodriguez]

23 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

I'm confused. You had a valid permission of stay till May 20. Why didn't you obtain a 12 month extension prior to may 20.

Obtain a 60 day extension visit wife/family and then obtain 12 month extension. Obviously have all your financials in place to satisfy imm.

because we are(/were) in amnesty maybe ... why make your life more difficult

 

I went on 25 march, one day before the lockdown, overfull immigration, total chaos, zero social distancing, IO's TV was on for them, could not here them say the follow up number in THAI only !!! and their ticket online follow up screen was DEAD, but their TV was on for their pleasure...

 

got my extension denied and only got 60 days, which, I wish I would have saved to be used after 26 september...

 

indeed, the few remaining farangs still here contributing to the country, they want out...

 

no sympathy, no empathy from IO's ... pushing you to use crooked agents for 10x 25x the normal immigration fee

[Bender Rodriguez]

On 8/27/2020 at 4:51 PM, JonoM said:

Is there anyone I can appeal to at the Bangkok Head Office?

I also asked for that, but appeal, that is for civilized countries only

[Hi Tea]

2 hours ago, misterphil said:

Why the confusion? I am in the same position as the original poster and when I went to do my 90 day they told me I don't need to do anything during the amnesty. 

The OP wasn't trying to do a 90-day report!

[Seeall]

On 8/27/2020 at 5:12 PM, JonoM said:

Because at that time i did not have 400k in a Thai bank account to apply for an extension. As soon as I was able, I transferred the money into my account which was on the 11 July. Under normal circumstaces I would have left country and come back.

It seems that if we all can, dont rely on the amnesty if you can help it...  keep the cash in the bank, do the normal hokey pokey.. dont push it.. its confusing enough normally.. without this....

[Satcommlee]

I think there are going to be so many people in the same boat that completely mis-understood that the amnesty was for those that wouldn't ordinarily have had to jump through immigration hoops..

[Shaunduhpostman]

I have to admit, that from the get go with this amnesty thing I thought, "wow, they are putting us onto a whole other level of vulnerability." At first I thought, "Sit tight, they will address people like some of us who do the non-O multi border bounce, there is no reason to panic or even worry too much, it is a perfectly legit option as immigration or the consulates have never mentioned there being a problem  after a decade of doing it, going out getting the stamp without them even blinking let alone even giving me so much as a disapproving look.

 

But, yes, as the cookie has crumbled, it seems the higher ups in immigration and the government itself are going to give any immigration office in the country a wide berth to interpret each and every case that they see regarding permission to stay based on yearly extension. Surprise surprise. They don;t want to acknowledge what they at the very least tolerated if not actually approved of, the Non-O multi 90 day border bounce option.

 

But, that said, the way I interpret what has happened in this case is that because the OP's visa had expired, not just his 90 day permission to stay, his request to extend 9 months was denied. That the Op was denied seems perfectly in line with what I would expect to be honest.  If the VISA has expired it would stand to reason that there is nothing left to extend. Of course you can try your luck and the COVID crisis has no doubt muddied already cloudy waters, but it seems clear to me that you need a valid visa in order for an extension. 

 

I can sympathize though with the "you are on overstay!" condemnation, which is one I had gotten years ago because I was on an Ed visa and had gotten a job offer and naively went to Chaeng Wattana to ask about how to go about switching over to a permission to work situation. Its traumatic, really a shock to just try your best to follow some rules that are not easy to understand let alone find out about and get almost attacked for inquiring. There is an amnesty and yes it is not for tourists, incredible. But back in the day, yes, I was in the wrong, as I later found out years later when I  read somewhere that you can't go to a job interview while on an Ed visa, but Immigration did not even explain that to me, just a stamp "OVERSTAY" slammed into my passport and I was shouted at "YOU ON OVERSTAY! WHY YOU NOT KNOW!? YOU CAN NEVER CHANGE YOUR VISA IN THAILAND! 2,000 baht!" They also told me I had a week to get out gave me a week stamp in my passport. That and the problems my employers have had year after year getting my visa extended when both of us were qualified and a right to work and do business under their own regulations spelled out to me that when i was on my own, staying here using the Non-O multi border bounce option was the only sane sensible thing to do and that has proven to be correct up till the COVID border lockdown.

 

I really hope the OP can get this sorted, and Buddha/God help all of us. That immigration would be so cruel and disingenuous and say that the amnesty was for tourists only is a new low. But of course it is not that surprising. That said it does seem they are pressuring people so they will go to the agents who I assume make a neat tidy operation out of getting them their tea money. If it gets down to that for me, no thank you. I'll leave the country after 21 years here before i go to an agency, it violates the terms of holding a passport as well if I recall and you can not only get into trouble with the law here but at home as well if they find out you are passing your passport around to "agencies"  who likely copy your passport data, mine your <deleted> etc. I understand and respect people who feel they must go that route but not me.

 

I am so sorry about how this is all starting to turn out, may we all get through the gauntlet once again just so that we may stand on terra firma. I pray for us all.

[connda]

I'm sorry to hear your plight Op.  And you probably will not be the last we hear from.

But - This is exactly why I didn't deviate from my normal schedule for extensions and reports.  There is too much variability in the interpretation of Immigration orders as it is.  Then you and I, really as unwanted, "temporary" "guests" in this country even though we may have been supporting families for years, find out the hard way that an "amnesty" doesn't apply to us.  At least by one IO's interpretation, or one immigration office's interpretation, or the changing interpretations that never make sense anyway.  And...your kicked out.

You have to assume you are not wanted, that immigration is not out to assist you but conversely, they are there to find ways to expel you.  And then act accordingly

Immigration cannot be trusted.  I hope things work out for you and others.  Truly. 

[orchidfan]

55 minutes ago, connda said:

I'm sorry to hear your plight Op.  And you probably will not be the last we hear from.

But - This is exactly why I didn't deviate from my normal schedule for extensions and reports.  There is too much variability in the interpretation of Immigration orders as it is.  Then you and I, really as unwanted, "temporary" "guests" in this country even though we may have been supporting families for years, find out the hard way that an "amnesty" doesn't apply to us.  At least by one IO's interpretation, or one immigration office's interpretation, or the changing interpretations that never make sense anyway.  And...your kicked out.

You have to assume you are not wanted, that immigration is not out to assist you but conversely, they are there to find ways to expel you.  And then act accordingly

Immigration cannot be trusted.  I hope things work out for you and others.  Truly. 

Agree entirely. Have done all my reports (online or whatever ) and will make sure the 400k is in the bank account the required 2 months before annual extension early next year.

Not going to believe any amnesty BS that allows IO to give me a hard time.

[Jenkins9039]

On 8/27/2020 at 4:51 PM, JonoM said:

I have just visisted Immigration (Si Racha) with my wife to check that I had all the necessary paperwork in order to apply for a new visa/extension (that I would apply for on 12 September) and I was told that I am infact an overstaying and that I have to leave the country on the 27 September. So I am a bit shocked and bewildered. Have I completely misunderstood everything that I have read about the amnesty??

Nah, they're correct, as mentioned previously by me, Amnesty is considered 'overstay' without the fines, it will likely cost you 300-400k to go to Europe (with the wife) and then return, far easier to apply for the Elite, but being frank, that takes 30-45 days, so you best get packing!

[ndreamer]

42 minutes ago, Jenkins9039 said:

Nah, they're correct, as mentioned previously by me, Amnesty is considered 'overstay' without the fines, it will likely cost you 300-400k to go to Europe (with the wife) and then return, far easier to apply for the Elite, but being frank, that takes 30-45 days, so you best get packing!

Isn't there a condition on elite for no overstays. Its not really an option for anybody some even have flights off the table.

[fakser]

I am afraid that you were wrong. The amnesty was aimed for tourists on tourist visa of 30 - 60 days who were stranded in Thailand without the physical ability to leave the country because of the flight shut down.

You had all the time to hope on to immigration office and extend your one year visa before it expired.

I have the same but opposite problem. i have a Non O retirement visa but I am abroad in my country and can not approach Thai immigration to extend it. My visa expired on July and I guess that I will have to start the process  from the beginning once I am back.

[recom273]

If it were me, I would have put the money in my bank and then applied, knowing it would have been rejected. 
 

That gives Thai immigration the option to decide the best way to proceed, not what you thought was best or you understood to be correct - under normal conditions, they would just grant you a 60 day extension which gives you the time for your funds to season and then after your extension was approved it would begin from May 15.

 

I too had never understood the visa amnesty to apply for anyone other than holders of tourist visas who have become stranded. 
 

However, you would think logic would prevail in this situation, but Thai Immigration aren’t exactly known for their understanding and helpful approach. 
 

Anyway, it’s all well and good after the fact - I wish you all the best, I hope you can sort it out. 

 

 

[zoza]

i did not realize the problem was so bad, i spoke to a friend last week and he told me he was in big trouble as his 30 days visa has near expired and he is on overstay shortly and he said you cannot apply for a visa on overstay? and Immigration (Jomtien) told him he had to leave Thailand to get a new visa ? i am a bit surprised as when is an Amnesty not an Amnesty ? when you are in Thailand

it appears? i mean normally you get all the ''i have never had a problem with Immigration in twenty years'' brigade , but this has changed not too many fish in the barrels in fact most of the barrels   are empty so a lot of Immigration staff are not getting the income stream they are used to,

and now they want to maximize their earnings, if there is a way around this via Agent or other body

a heads up would be appreciated as i do understand how it feels when you get caught up in one of their '' how can we make it even more difficult for Farangs to stay in Thailand '' games.

                                                          Thanks for any helpful advice. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by zoza

[Maha Sarakham]

Just use an agent, not worth getting ousted from the country and not being able to come back, over 2000 baht.  Yes, they're crooks, but they have the authority in this case.

[JonoM]

Thanks for the support and empathy guys. I hope others in the same situation find their Immigration Offices more accommodating than mine.

 

Nothing more to report, as wasn't able to make it to immigration on Friday. Will go Monday now, but given my previous experience I don't hold much hope that they will give me 60 days (to visit wife), but I can but try!

 

I think it's more likely i will be using an agent to get me through this. So if any one can recommend one in Si Racha or Pattaya please pm me.

[FarFlungFalang]

12 minutes ago, JonoM said:

Thanks for the support and empathy guys. I hope others in the same situation find their Immigration Offices more accommodating than mine.

 

Nothing more to report, as wasn't able to make it to immigration on Friday. Will go Monday now, but given my previous experience I don't hold much hope that they will give me 60 days (to visit wife), but I can but try!

 

I think it's more likely i will be using an agent to get me through this. So if any one can recommend one in Si Racha or Pattaya please pm me.

 

I also didn't hold much hope when I went in yesterday but was pleasantly surprised so you never know when the wind might change and remember pleasant polite persistence pays positive premiums!

[Wongkitlo]

This video definitely says non O me are included in the amnesty. "In summary all visa holders do not need to apply for extension"

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/RichardBarrow/status/1252835323177865218

Edited August 29, 2020 by Wongkitlo
Edit

[trucking]

On 8/27/2020 at 2:51 AM, JonoM said:

I have a Non-imm O Visa based on marriage obtained from HCMC which expired on 21 Aug 20. My permit to stay expered on 15 May 20, so I have been staying here under the visa amnesty and I had thought that I had until 27 September to sort something out. My intention was to apply for either an extension to my stay or apply for a new visa (whichever they allow?) using the 400k in the bank method. On 11 July I had 400k depsited in my bank account, enabling to apply on the 12 September, or so I thought.

 

Although I agree that Sri Racha are incorrect in what they have told you I was nonetheless told the same thing at Petchabun immigration recently , that they would not extend an expired visa. 

 

It seems that there are immigration offices out there ignorant of the official line making up their own rules. Fortunately my Non O expires in September and I will apply before then for a 60 day extension to give my recent 400,000 deposit enough time to season.