Why the discrimination against retirees in Thailand?

[Trujillo]

A foreigner friend of mine (married to a Thai) just renewed his work permit and visa. They automatically gave him a FOUR YEAR VISA.

 

I'm happy for him but it begs the question: Why are retired people here in Thailand not afforded similar treatment? In fact, now we are not even allowed to re-enter Thailand for any reason if we leave; whereas, anyone with a work permit can re-enter Thailand as can any student in places approved by Thai authorities, as well as married foreigners. 

I'm baffled. Although I may inject more income into the Thai economy as a retiree, a person studying Thai has more rights than me of free movement? My relationships are of lesser value because I am not legally married? 

What part of the word "retired" does the Thai government not understand? We have settled here to live. We are not here temporarily to learn a language or to work and then move on when the time is right. We have adopted this place as our new (and last) home. 

 

I would really love to see someone in the media or from an embassy or consulate publicly confront government officials with this issue. What is this rank discrimination based on and how is it justified? More importantly, when can we expect the government to do the right thing and treat us with equal fairness? When will I be able to get a FOUR YEAR VISA extension? When can I be allowed to leave and legally re-enter Thailand? 

[ravip]

A working foreign population contributes more to the country than a retiree. All retirees are not millionaires either. Some are struggling financially.

[bkk6060]

16 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

I'm baffled.

#me too.

 

17 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

I would really love to see someone in the media or from an embassy or consulate publicly confront government officials with this issue. What is this rank discrimination based on and how is it justified?

If you are so passionate about it, take it upon yourself.  Maybe go to one of the national media outlets or your embassy and start a campaign. Good luck.

[northsouthdevide]

I hear you brother, 

But immigration laws in most countries in the world, if not all, are designed to protect that particular state, 

And thailand is no different. 

Not being able to return once you leave the country could happen just about anywhere at the moment. 

That's not thailands fault. 

This virus could see us all off if countries didn't enforce strict rules on travel. 

[OneMoreFarang]

Let's be realistic: What do retirees contribute to Thailand? A little money, probably a lot less than tourists.

And at the same time some retirees create headache and cost for Thailand like unpaid medical bills.

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand that you and many others like to live her. But look at it from Thailand's point of view.

And Thailand is not unique in that way. Many (all?) countries are more interested in experts for their expertise and tourists for their money.

[Dumbastheycome]

But does that  Visa and work permit stay  valid if or when the job it had to be based on ceases  ?

[Trujillo]

 

"Not being able to return once you leave the country could happen just about anywhere at the moment."

 

Granted, but do you think it's fair for retirees to be excluded and students not? 

 

And it's not about being a millionaire. And I am not convinced that, for instance, an "online teacher" or a "web designer" with a work permit contributes much to society, but you are free to educate me. 

 

The job my friend has is a real job with an international company that will not cease. But yes, I assume that if you are with "Happy Giraffe" English school on a work permit and they fold, you will too. 

 

A tourist contributes more than a retiree? Are you joking? 

Of course, tourists (in normal times) are more numerous than retirees, sure. But individually, I outpace any tourist by my contributions over time by orders of magnitude. 

And by the way, if Thailand accepts retirees into their national community, one would argue that it's done with open arms; otherwise, why allow anyone to live here? I'm not asking for special treatment above and beyond other groups, just some reasonableness compared to the treatment of others. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Trujillo

[Matzzon]

Where are you feeling discriminated? As it is of today, there is an ongoing pandemic. That´s the reason for Thailand to not let tourists or retired people in.

Of humanitarian reasons they are allowing member of families that includes a Thai citizen in. Nothing strange with that.

People that are employed by Thai companies or are working on diplomatic missions are allowed to enter because either they are needed or they are contributing with their knowledge and experience to a Thai company. Nothing strange with that.

As for your envy that a person with a WP can get a 4 year visa. So can you!

The person that gets a 4 year visa is employed by a Thai company or working under the rules of BOI on contract for a minimum of 4 years. They also have a salary that reaches the minimum limit allowed to work in Thailand depending on which work and country they are connected to.

You can get a 5 or 10 year visa as a retiree. Of course you also have to live up to the requirements and show your finances. Here you need 3m baht in the bank or 1,8m baht in the bank and a yearly income of minimum 1,2m baht. Nothing strange with that. The options are there and not different for you.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Matzzon

[gearbox]

Adapt...enrol to learn Thai if you are so desperate. Some retirees will turn into "volunteers" past Sept 26.

 

My retirement visa is about to expire but so far I don't have enough motivation yet to do any of the above. Sooner or later they'll open the borders in a semi-normal way again.

[Trujillo]

I am not arguing that there is anything strange about people being allowed in for their work. Or their families, although are you not aware that there are many relationships here that are solid, long-term and are NOT legally married? What about people retired here who have houses, contribute to the wealth of the nation and more importantly in this example, have Thai citizens who not only care for them but for whom the foreigner is supporting (and their relatives, etc.)? Does this not count for something? 

Should someone who came here to study the Thai language before the covid lockdowns be afforded more rights than a person who has lived and contributed here for 15 years? 

[86Tiger]

"....I would really love to see someone in the media or from an embassy or consulate publicly confront government officials with this issue. As another stated above you can take up this banner and run with it.What is this rank discrimination based on and how is it justified? You are a minority foreigner in a country that doesn't care if you are here or not. More importantly, when can we expect the government to do the right thing and treat us with equal fairness? Just as soon as you get the right to vote or bring in millions of baht to the government coffers. When will I be able to get a FOUR YEAR VISA extension? You can get a multi-year visa now through elite visa program. When can I be allowed to leave and legally re-enter Thailand? you can leave and re-enter as you please with purchase of multi-rentry permt...."

 

Quite frankly, these "problems" are so low on the Thai pecking order no one cares.  And with little cash and paper work there is solution to all your complaints today.

 

 

 

 

[jmccarty]

You can't get a re-entry permit on request before or when departing? (post-covid)

[Pravda]

The thread is a little embarrassing to be honest.

 

If you want equal rights stay at your privileged first world country.

[ravip]

1 minute ago, Pravda said:

The thread is a little embarrassing to be honest.

 

If you want equal rights stay at your privileged first world country.

Absolutely true. Unfortunately very few seem to understand it.

If one decide to settle down in an undeveloped third world country, 'degrade' your self and live happily ever after. No, you will never enjoy the 'bliss' of the developed first world. 

[Henryford]

29 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Let's be realistic: What do retirees contribute to Thailand? A little money, probably a lot less than tourists.

And at the same time some retirees create headache and cost for Thailand like unpaid medical bills.

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand that you and many others like to live her. But look at it from Thailand's point of view.

And Thailand is not unique in that way. Many (all?) countries are more interested in experts for their expertise and tourists for their money.

Nobody wants retirees, not even our own country. Just want us to die to save them the pensions.

[Trujillo]

 

"If you want equal rights stay at your privileged first world country."

 

This a trumped up version of the flaccid non-argument, "If you don't like it, leave."  Sorry I had to waste two sentences on it. 

 

"You can get a multi-year visa now through elite visa program."

 

BOI work permit holders do not have to pay the government between 500,000 and 2,000,000 baht for a visa. Notice the difference? 

 

"You can leave and re-enter as you please with purchase of multi-rentry permt...."

 

No, you can't. All existing multiple re-entry permits are not honored at this time. I thought you were up to speed....

[ballpoint]

How dare they.  Why not take your 800,000 baht, walk into another country with it and demand a four year visa.

[JensenZ]

38 minutes ago, ravip said:

A working foreign population contributes more to the country than a retiree. All retirees are not millionaires either. Some are struggling financially.

I don't agree. Retirees bring in a lot of money and it usually gets spent, whereas foreign workers are younger and more likely to save their money. Retirees come in and buy real estate for cash. Foreign workers on salaries would not be buying real estate for cash.

 

Sure, there are expats doing it tough, but there are a lot of foreign workers making peanuts.

[Berkshire]

33 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Let's be realistic: What do retirees contribute to Thailand? A little money, probably a lot less than tourists.

And at the same time some retirees create headache and cost for Thailand like unpaid medical bills.

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand that you and many others like to live her. But look at it from Thailand's point of view.

And Thailand is not unique in that way. Many (all?) countries are more interested in experts for their expertise and tourists for their money.

My home country (USA) doesn't even have a retiree visa option.  So the OP should be thankful he's even allowed that in Thailand.

[Keyser Soze666]

Isn't it obvious. He 'works' here, he isn't a bum wandering around looking lost in the world dressed in flip flops and a vest looking for cheap beer. The Thai gov don't care about your 20k a month, and rightly so.

[Pravda]

3 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

This a trumped up version of the flaccid non-argument, "If you don't like it, leave."  Sorry I had to waste two sentences on it. 

 

At least you have a choice, something you take for granted.

 

Again, what did you expect moving into a country that will never make you a citizen?

 

[david555]

I am grateful that I get year after year my ret. ext. at the cost of 1900 baht in a flash handling at Jomtien desk 8 ….. 1900 / 365 = 5,205 Baht a day ...

 

Every time I check the whereabouts of passport , on page 9 : the extension permitted up to 22SEPT 2021 immigration stamp  is smiling to me ????

Edited September 1, 2020 by david555

[Trujillo]

Just for comparison, what do you do, Keyser Soze666? Or are you even in Thailand? Armchair QB or have a stake; which is it? 

 

 

"Again, what did you expect moving into a country that will never make you a citizen?"

 

A reasonable amount of fair play. Is that asking for the moon? 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Trujillo

[Dante99]

11 minutes ago, Pravda said:

The thread is a little embarrassing to be honest.

 

If you want equal rights stay at your privileged first world country.

Yes. It is embarrassing that people are so ignorant that they "retire here" expecting no discrimination.  Where did they get the idea that there was no discrimination here?  Is it normal delusion, chemically assisted or age related disease/deterioration ?  

 

 

[nausea]

I missed this, the discrimination against me is mostly positive. i'm lazy, so if they want to think I speak no Thai and I'm just an ATM machine, OK. Occasionaly a Thai will open up. I must admit my first two years here were pretty intense. Like girls telling me their innermost thoughts. When my main priority was just getting into their knickers.

Edited September 1, 2020 by nausea

[FolkGuitar]

What is the sane reasoning behind someone first asking permission to live somewhere, then, when that permission is granted, demanding that the local laws be changed to suit them!?!

"I'm here, so now change your laws to make me happy."  How bloody selfish!

[Mike Teavee]

28 minutes ago, david555 said:

I am grateful that I get year after year my ret. ext. at the cost of 1900 baht in a flash handling at Jomtien desk 8 ….. 1900 / 365 = 5,205 Baht a day ...

 

Every time I check the whereabouts of passport , on page 9 : the extension permitted up to 22SEPT 2021 immigration stamp  is smiling to me ????

Did you not get extended until the 26th September 2021 like the rest of us ????

 

OP you could always look into permanent residency though if you haven't worked in Thailand you may need to invest 10 million THB

[gearbox]

41 minutes ago, Keyser Soze666 said:

Isn't it obvious. He 'works' here, he isn't a bum wandering around looking lost in the world dressed in flip flops and a vest looking for cheap beer. The Thai gov don't care about your 20k a month, and rightly so.

Nothing wrong with me being a bum wandering around. I can afford it. Isn't that one of the main attractions of Thailand...go around with flip flops and shorts carefree?

 

I can probably get a work permit if I try, but why should I work for a Thai company paying me probably a fraction of what I get now working remotely for Western clients?

 

Retirement visas are not charity, they are business transactions with mutual benefit for both parties. If the Thais think they are not getting what they want, they can abandon the retirement visas or raise the financial requirements. On the other end retirees can move to another country if they think they get a better deal. It is a market.

 

However the current situation is a bit unfair, as the issuance of a retirement visa which is paid should be regarded as a contract and the Thais should fulfil their obligations. What about the O-A visa holders who paid for expensive Thai health insurance but now are stuck outside and can't use it?

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by gearbox

[Hi Tea]

35 minutes ago, Pravda said:

Again, what did you expect moving into a country that will never make you a citizen?

Unless he applies for it, of course, when that will be considered!  No country invites foreigners to become citizens.

[david555]

5 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Did you not get extended until the 26th September 2021 like the rest of us ????

 

OP you could always look into permanent residency though if you haven't worked in Thailand you may need to invest 10 million THB

I just did the normally things needed to do as always before C19 ….., including my normal 90 day rapports , I was not needed to be under any amnesty or whatever named ….. 

 

Lucky guy's you all of you who got this " until the 26th September 2021 like the rest of us ????" as I had to pay  1900 baht for it …. you got it for free.... yeah that is real discrimination … ???? 555