Jump to content
BANGKOK 22 March 2019 06:46
Sign in to follow this  
george

The Thai Economy Is In Crisis

Recommended Posts

not there yet, but with the US GDP coming in at a paltry 1.3% , its only a matter of time before Thailand takes it on the chin....

Four Asian nations hit by 1997-98 financial crisis face vulnerability

Thailand now faces greater risks due to a decline in the ratio of foreign reserves to short-term debt and an increase in short-term capital inflows.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/19/news/currency.php

I agree with you. but maybe not got the same reason.

Thailand is facing another financial crisis vulnerability because huge hedge funds and investment banks have taken position on the thai baht. As such Thailand is now at the mercy of those forign speculators that can decide to draw out and repeat the same crisis as in 97. Unfortunatly this is now a problem not only for thailand but for the whole world. the Huge fund mangers have only one consideration and that is to make more and more profits. they dont care if they can ruin a country or devestate an economy while doing so.

All the economical factors are in favour for thailand to continue growth but a bunch of greedy speculators can realy rock the boat.

there is no way to stop this as if you put limitations on short-term capital inflows the speculators are going to go to the govermants and complain about thailands monitary policy and thailand does not want tpo upset the americans or the europeans. so at the end of the day a few greedy managers are basicly running the world.

Highdiver, You hit the nail on the head! I have posted multiple times on this subject but most people here just don't get it. When the hedge funds decide to get out of their investments and change their baht back in to euros and U.S. dollars then the Thai baht will do an absolute backflip. People don't realize the size and scope of these funds to change capital markets overnight and ruin a small countries economy as well, and you are correct that absolute greed is the only thing that motivates these people. It is truely unconsionable how governments both in the U.S. and Europe have been bought off and make no attempt to have any regulation or oversight on these hedge fund criminals. A good example was the democratic debate in south carolina yesterday, the moderator asked john edwards and hillary clinton the same question about what they would do to institute some oversight on the hedge fund industry if elected and both candidates completely dodged the question and talked about something else. The next question in the debate was directed toward chris dodd (a senator from conneticut that the hegde fund industry has in its back pocket) and you could see senator dodd sweating bullets thinking that he might be getting the same question on the hegde fund industry, but sadly the moderator seeing that he was not going to get a straight answer about hedge funds from these candidiates, changed the line of questioning and you could see the immediate relief on chris dodds face. Just as Jesus overturned the carts of the moneychangers in the temple, we need someone in power with a strong loyal following to turn over the carts of the hedge funds and watch as the cockroaches scrurry, if something isn't done soon then I feel that the price to pay will be devestating.

if you have proof that this is actually happening, then, let us all see it. otherwise, all this conspiracy stuff is old stuff, and the only thing it does is make foreigners more anti-american.

on the other hand, since you seem to think this is true, perhaps you can tell us all what thailand can do to stop this so-called conspiracy being implemented by evil rich americans?

your conspiracy theories are making it so that win or lose, america will look like the one to blame.

jesus, can't someone in this world take the blame for something THEY did for once?

yeah. maybe I am naive about all the evil in this world. so, please enlighten me. but some more constructive thought would help instead of just all the accusations. thank you.

Nick, First of all there is no conspiracy theory going on here, hegde funds and arbitragers have been with us for a while now and their size, strength, and political clout has grown into something that would make the tabacco industry evious. Secondly, this is not a uniquely american phenomonon there are many european hedge funds manipulating the thai market as well as many other markets in asia and elseware. Last week on 60 minutes (or maybe it was 20-20) there was a segment on just this, and senator grassley who had the guts to put forward some rather tame hegde fund legislation on the senate floor was interviewed and said that within 10 minutes of introducing his bill on the senate floor he was contacted by multiple parties(both other senators and lobbyists) to kill the bill. In this same segment it was made clear that on multiple occasions senator dodd has killed similiar bills and then 60 minutes went on to say that dodd recieved over 5 million dollars from the hedge fund industry in his last campaign. These are the hard cold facts my friend, I only wish it was just a bad dream or some bogus conspiracy theory. By the way americans are not to blame but instead are victims of these hedge funds as well. Perhaps when the valuation on the baht does reverse dramatically and some journalist can lay out just how all this occured, then perhaps you will not be so naive the next time around.

ok. I am not disbelieving you. especially if 60 minutes brought the subject up.

...if some senators and some lobby groups tried to stop this hegde fund legislation, then, these people need to be identified before anybody can do anything. so, the big question is - can you identify who these senators and lobbyist are?

on the same token, since you say that there are american and european hedge funds who are causing all these evil deeds here in thailand, can you identify them so that ALL thais will know who they are?

to fight an evil, you must first know who you are fighting. right?

name the hedge funds.

being a small speck, I certainly cannot do much. but I am sure there are others with more "influence" who can.

expose the hedge funds.

Nick, You just don't get it do you? The United States Congress is so impetent and scared that they cannot pass legislation to regulate or at the very least lend some transparency to the hedge fund industry. In Eurpoe it is the same way, but at least the discussion seems to be "on the table" over there. These funds act with impunity and have absolutly no transparency so what do you think that you could possibly do? I tell you what if you check out the phone books for Darien conneticut, Boca Raton FL., northern N.J., Toronto Canada, Bermuda, the Bahanas, the cayman islands and Berlin you might have a good start as most of the power players in the hedge fund industry operate from these locals. Good luck my friend, perhaps you have the power to do what the U.S. congress obviously doesn't have the balls to attempt!

we only have your accusations. no proof. if you know personally ANY hedge funds who are causing these conspiracies as you claim they are doing, bring it out so that people can confront them.

as for the "other guy" who asked me how I "know" that there is a lot of anti-american sentiment here in thailand. you only have to read the newspapers here to get the general idea of what is going on. gee, you really don't need to go that far either. why, just read the replies from thais on thaivisa.

we are starting to get off-topic here. so, I will stop.

I agree with the above replies you got. and apart from you it seems that other members "dont get it"

Forex is the largest market in the world with a daily turn over of Trillions of dollars. not billions but trillions.

the largest players on this court are usualy central banks and heavy players in forex.

by the way the largest player by far is the US Federal Reserve. some would even go as far as saying that it is the Americans who by sheer ratio are actually controlling this market and do so to promote american interests.

The Hedge Funds and the private equiry funds have become in the last Few years very big players.

some of those funds are called by economists "dumb money" as the investors in those funds dont realy understand what it is the fund is investing in or where the mony is invested they just want to see profis at the end of the year.

Those large funds are making huge amounts of money. and it was published last week about the salaries that some of those hedge funds manages get they were in billions.

Edward S. Lampert made $1.02 billion, while his firm, ESL Investments, raked in a 69 percent return on investment.

Besides Lampert, others in the top 10 of hedge fund managers included James Simons of Renaissance Technologies, $670 million; Bruce Kovner of Caxton Associates, $550 million; Steven Cohen of SAC Capital Advisors, $450 million; David Tepper of Appaloosa Management, $420 million; George Soros of Soros Fund Management, $305 million (Soros was number one in 2003, with $750 million); Paul Tudor Jones II of Tudor Investment Corp., $300 million; Kenneth Griffin of Citadel Investment Group, $240 million; Raymond Dalio of Bridgewater Associates, $225 million; and Israel Englander of Millennium Partners, $205 million.

and that just the americans.

do you undesratand that those guys with those salaries are controlling billions dollar funds and the only objective they have is to make more money and have a bigger return.

Hedge-fund assets globally broke through the $1 trillion mark in July, 2004, with funds invested in Asia approaching 6% of that total.

Dozens of these funds have set up shop in Asia in the past 24 months, hoping to find lucrative opportunities outside the crowded capital markets in Europe and the United States. So why are they investing in Asia and in Thailand??? because the growth rate is better and the lack of monitary controls enable them to do ehat they want.

Aggressive hedge fund managers normally take positions designed to profit from a market decline if one is expected, and perhaps no market "correction" has been as widely anticipated as the latest one in March. Fund managers in Asia were warning of an imminent slide in markets as far back as December. What is surprising about the latest expected drop was how few hedge fund managers appeared to have taken such positions.

Instead, they were trying to take advantage of the bull market for Asian stocks and bonds.

Short-selling, or betting that stocks will fall, is not allowed in some Asian equity markets, but determined short-sellers can use financial derivatives and options to achieve the same effect. When stocks started to move down, though, investors will jumped out en masse, making drops even steeper.

do you understand they are actually going to win a lot of money by crashing the stocks?? do you understand that they are world wide players that can afford to loose in one game if they win more on another? do you understand that The Thai economy is nothing for them and with a single decision they can destroy the country and create another crisis and that at the end of the day they make more moeny from doing it??

But today it is not just the hedge funds that act like hedge funds It is also the proprietary desks of banks like Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley.

Because the banks' traders and hedge fund managers are compensated on the short-term trading profits they make they are not interested any more in Long term investments . they are playing god to other countris so the bonus at the ned of the year will be bigger.

the crisis is coming soon unless the thai govermant and infact every other asian country will take steps to controll forign investement and capital controll. Meanwhile, a 167 percent increase in Vietnam's benchmark stock market index has sparked fears that Hanoi will impose capital controls to keep foreign speculative investments out. Thailand put controls on incoming portfolio capital in December, although it has been relaxing them steadily since then due to international pressure by.... yes you are right those with the big salaries above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the nightlife is still here . is an answer why ameicans should come here...lol. it hanst gone anywhere.

Well there was an outrage a few years back when one foreign diplomat was quoted in Time (or Business week or some such mag) as saying the only competitive advantages Thailand had was sex and golf!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
not there yet, but with the US GDP coming in at a paltry 1.3% , its only a matter of time before Thailand takes it on the chin....

Four Asian nations hit by 1997-98 financial crisis face vulnerability

Thailand now faces greater risks due to a decline in the ratio of foreign reserves to short-term debt and an increase in short-term capital inflows.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/19/news/currency.php

I agree with you. but maybe not got the same reason.

Thailand is facing another financial crisis vulnerability because huge hedge funds and investment banks have taken position on the thai baht. As such Thailand is now at the mercy of those forign speculators that can decide to draw out and repeat the same crisis as in 97. Unfortunatly this is now a problem not only for thailand but for the whole world. the Huge fund mangers have only one consideration and that is to make more and more profits. they dont care if they can ruin a country or devestate an economy while doing so.

All the economical factors are in favour for thailand to continue growth but a bunch of greedy speculators can realy rock the boat.

there is no way to stop this as if you put limitations on short-term capital inflows the speculators are going to go to the govermants and complain about thailands monitary policy and thailand does not want tpo upset the americans or the europeans. so at the end of the day a few greedy managers are basicly running the world.

Highdiver, You hit the nail on the head! I have posted multiple times on this subject but most people here just don't get it. When the hedge funds decide to get out of their investments and change their baht back in to euros and U.S. dollars then the Thai baht will do an absolute backflip. People don't realize the size and scope of these funds to change capital markets overnight and ruin a small countries economy as well, and you are correct that absolute greed is the only thing that motivates these people. It is truely unconsionable how governments both in the U.S. and Europe have been bought off and make no attempt to have any regulation or oversight on these hedge fund criminals. A good example was the democratic debate in south carolina yesterday, the moderator asked john edwards and hillary clinton the same question about what they would do to institute some oversight on the hedge fund industry if elected and both candidates completely dodged the question and talked about something else. The next question in the debate was directed toward chris dodd (a senator from conneticut that the hegde fund industry has in its back pocket) and you could see senator dodd sweating bullets thinking that he might be getting the same question on the hegde fund industry, but sadly the moderator seeing that he was not going to get a straight answer about hedge funds from these candidiates, changed the line of questioning and you could see the immediate relief on chris dodds face. Just as Jesus overturned the carts of the moneychangers in the temple, we need someone in power with a strong loyal following to turn over the carts of the hedge funds and watch as the cockroaches scrurry, if something isn't done soon then I feel that the price to pay will be devestating.

if you have proof that this is actually happening, then, let us all see it. otherwise, all this conspiracy stuff is old stuff, and the only thing it does is make foreigners more anti-american.

on the other hand, since you seem to think this is true, perhaps you can tell us all what thailand can do to stop this so-called conspiracy being implemented by evil rich americans?

your conspiracy theories are making it so that win or lose, america will look like the one to blame.

jesus, can't someone in this world take the blame for something THEY did for once?

yeah. maybe I am naive about all the evil in this world. so, please enlighten me. but some more constructive thought would help instead of just all the accusations. thank you.

Nick, First of all there is no conspiracy theory going on here, hegde funds and arbitragers have been with us for a while now and their size, strength, and political clout has grown into something that would make the tabacco industry evious. Secondly, this is not a uniquely american phenomonon there are many european hedge funds manipulating the thai market as well as many other markets in asia and elseware. Last week on 60 minutes (or maybe it was 20-20) there was a segment on just this, and senator grassley who had the guts to put forward some rather tame hegde fund legislation on the senate floor was interviewed and said that within 10 minutes of introducing his bill on the senate floor he was contacted by multiple parties(both other senators and lobbyists) to kill the bill. In this same segment it was made clear that on multiple occasions senator dodd has killed similiar bills and then 60 minutes went on to say that dodd recieved over 5 million dollars from the hedge fund industry in his last campaign. These are the hard cold facts my friend, I only wish it was just a bad dream or some bogus conspiracy theory. By the way americans are not to blame but instead are victims of these hedge funds as well. Perhaps when the valuation on the baht does reverse dramatically and some journalist can lay out just how all this occured, then perhaps you will not be so naive the next time around.

ok. I am not disbelieving you. especially if 60 minutes brought the subject up.

...if some senators and some lobby groups tried to stop this hegde fund legislation, then, these people need to be identified before anybody can do anything. so, the big question is - can you identify who these senators and lobbyist are?

on the same token, since you say that there are american and european hedge funds who are causing all these evil deeds here in thailand, can you identify them so that ALL thais will know who they are?

to fight an evil, you must first know who you are fighting. right?

name the hedge funds.

being a small speck, I certainly cannot do much. but I am sure there are others with more "influence" who can.

expose the hedge funds.

Nick, You just don't get it do you? The United States Congress is so impetent and scared that they cannot pass legislation to regulate or at the very least lend some transparency to the hedge fund industry. In Eurpoe it is the same way, but at least the discussion seems to be "on the table" over there. These funds act with impunity and have absolutly no transparency so what do you think that you could possibly do? I tell you what if you check out the phone books for Darien conneticut, Boca Raton FL., northern N.J., Toronto Canada, Bermuda, the Bahanas, the cayman islands and Berlin you might have a good start as most of the power players in the hedge fund industry operate from these locals. Good luck my friend, perhaps you have the power to do what the U.S. congress obviously doesn't have the balls to attempt!

we only have your accusations. no proof. if you know personally ANY hedge funds who are causing these conspiracies as you claim they are doing, bring it out so that people can confront them.

as for the "other guy" who asked me how I "know" that there is a lot of anti-american sentiment here in thailand. you only have to read the newspapers here to get the general idea of what is going on. gee, you really don't need to go that far either. why, just read the replies from thais on thaivisa.

we are starting to get off-topic here. so, I will stop.

I agree with the above replies you got. and apart from you it seems that other members "dont get it"

Forex is the largest market in the world with a daily turn over of Trillions of dollars. not billions but trillions.

the largest players on this court are usualy central banks and heavy players in forex.

by the way the largest player by far is the US Federal Reserve. some would even go as far as saying that it is the Americans who by sheer ratio are actually controlling this market and do so to promote american interests.

The Hedge Funds and the private equiry funds have become in the last Few years very big players.

some of those funds are called by economists "dumb money" as the investors in those funds dont realy understand what it is the fund is investing in or where the mony is invested they just want to see profis at the end of the year.

Those large funds are making huge amounts of money. and it was published last week about the salaries that some of those hedge funds manages get they were in billions.

Edward S. Lampert made $1.02 billion, while his firm, ESL Investments, raked in a 69 percent return on investment.

Besides Lampert, others in the top 10 of hedge fund managers included James Simons of Renaissance Technologies, $670 million; Bruce Kovner of Caxton Associates, $550 million; Steven Cohen of SAC Capital Advisors, $450 million; David Tepper of Appaloosa Management, $420 million; George Soros of Soros Fund Management, $305 million (Soros was number one in 2003, with $750 million); Paul Tudor Jones II of Tudor Investment Corp., $300 million; Kenneth Griffin of Citadel Investment Group, $240 million; Raymond Dalio of Bridgewater Associates, $225 million; and Israel Englander of Millennium Partners, $205 million.

and that just the americans.

do you undesratand that those guys with those salaries are controlling billions dollar funds and the only objective they have is to make more money and have a bigger return.

Hedge-fund assets globally broke through the $1 trillion mark in July, 2004, with funds invested in Asia approaching 6% of that total.

Dozens of these funds have set up shop in Asia in the past 24 months, hoping to find lucrative opportunities outside the crowded capital markets in Europe and the United States. So why are they investing in Asia and in Thailand??? because the growth rate is better and the lack of monitary controls enable them to do ehat they want.

Aggressive hedge fund managers normally take positions designed to profit from a market decline if one is expected, and perhaps no market "correction" has been as widely anticipated as the latest one in March. Fund managers in Asia were warning of an imminent slide in markets as far back as December. What is surprising about the latest expected drop was how few hedge fund managers appeared to have taken such positions.

Instead, they were trying to take advantage of the bull market for Asian stocks and bonds.

Short-selling, or betting that stocks will fall, is not allowed in some Asian equity markets, but determined short-sellers can use financial derivatives and options to achieve the same effect. When stocks started to move down, though, investors will jumped out en masse, making drops even steeper.

do you understand they are actually going to win a lot of money by crashing the stocks?? do you understand that they are world wide players that can afford to loose in one game if they win more on another? do you understand that The Thai economy is nothing for them and with a single decision they can destroy the country and create another crisis and that at the end of the day they make more moeny from doing it??

But today it is not just the hedge funds that act like hedge funds It is also the proprietary desks of banks like Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley.

Because the banks' traders and hedge fund managers are compensated on the short-term trading profits they make they are not interested any more in Long term investments . they are playing god to other countris so the bonus at the ned of the year will be bigger.

the crisis is coming soon unless the thai govermant and infact every other asian country will take steps to controll forign investement and capital controll. Meanwhile, a 167 percent increase in Vietnam's benchmark stock market index has sparked fears that Hanoi will impose capital controls to keep foreign speculative investments out. Thailand put controls on incoming portfolio capital in December, although it has been relaxing them steadily since then due to international pressure by.... yes you are right those with the big salaries above.

you know... I still do not believe your story. rather, I do not want to believe your story. you would have to be one pretty sick person to want to destroy other people to make money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
not there yet, but with the US GDP coming in at a paltry 1.3% , its only a matter of time before Thailand takes it on the chin....

Four Asian nations hit by 1997-98 financial crisis face vulnerability

Thailand now faces greater risks due to a decline in the ratio of foreign reserves to short-term debt and an increase in short-term capital inflows.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/19/news/currency.php

I agree with you. but maybe not got the same reason.

Thailand is facing another financial crisis vulnerability because huge hedge funds and investment banks have taken position on the thai baht. As such Thailand is now at the mercy of those forign speculators that can decide to draw out and repeat the same crisis as in 97. Unfortunatly this is now a problem not only for thailand but for the whole world. the Huge fund mangers have only one consideration and that is to make more and more profits. they dont care if they can ruin a country or devestate an economy while doing so.

All the economical factors are in favour for thailand to continue growth but a bunch of greedy speculators can realy rock the boat.

there is no way to stop this as if you put limitations on short-term capital inflows the speculators are going to go to the govermants and complain about thailands monitary policy and thailand does not want tpo upset the americans or the europeans. so at the end of the day a few greedy managers are basicly running the world.

Highdiver, You hit the nail on the head! I have posted multiple times on this subject but most people here just don't get it. When the hedge funds decide to get out of their investments and change their baht back in to euros and U.S. dollars then the Thai baht will do an absolute backflip. People don't realize the size and scope of these funds to change capital markets overnight and ruin a small countries economy as well, and you are correct that absolute greed is the only thing that motivates these people. It is truely unconsionable how governments both in the U.S. and Europe have been bought off and make no attempt to have any regulation or oversight on these hedge fund criminals. A good example was the democratic debate in south carolina yesterday, the moderator asked john edwards and hillary clinton the same question about what they would do to institute some oversight on the hedge fund industry if elected and both candidates completely dodged the question and talked about something else. The next question in the debate was directed toward chris dodd (a senator from conneticut that the hegde fund industry has in its back pocket) and you could see senator dodd sweating bullets thinking that he might be getting the same question on the hegde fund industry, but sadly the moderator seeing that he was not going to get a straight answer about hedge funds from these candidiates, changed the line of questioning and you could see the immediate relief on chris dodds face. Just as Jesus overturned the carts of the moneychangers in the temple, we need someone in power with a strong loyal following to turn over the carts of the hedge funds and watch as the cockroaches scrurry, if something isn't done soon then I feel that the price to pay will be devestating.

if you have proof that this is actually happening, then, let us all see it. otherwise, all this conspiracy stuff is old stuff, and the only thing it does is make foreigners more anti-american.

on the other hand, since you seem to think this is true, perhaps you can tell us all what thailand can do to stop this so-called conspiracy being implemented by evil rich americans?

your conspiracy theories are making it so that win or lose, america will look like the one to blame.

jesus, can't someone in this world take the blame for something THEY did for once?

yeah. maybe I am naive about all the evil in this world. so, please enlighten me. but some more constructive thought would help instead of just all the accusations. thank you.

Nick, First of all there is no conspiracy theory going on here, hegde funds and arbitragers have been with us for a while now and their size, strength, and political clout has grown into something that would make the tabacco industry evious. Secondly, this is not a uniquely american phenomonon there are many european hedge funds manipulating the thai market as well as many other markets in asia and elseware. Last week on 60 minutes (or maybe it was 20-20) there was a segment on just this, and senator grassley who had the guts to put forward some rather tame hegde fund legislation on the senate floor was interviewed and said that within 10 minutes of introducing his bill on the senate floor he was contacted by multiple parties(both other senators and lobbyists) to kill the bill. In this same segment it was made clear that on multiple occasions senator dodd has killed similiar bills and then 60 minutes went on to say that dodd recieved over 5 million dollars from the hedge fund industry in his last campaign. These are the hard cold facts my friend, I only wish it was just a bad dream or some bogus conspiracy theory. By the way americans are not to blame but instead are victims of these hedge funds as well. Perhaps when the valuation on the baht does reverse dramatically and some journalist can lay out just how all this occured, then perhaps you will not be so naive the next time around.

ok. I am not disbelieving you. especially if 60 minutes brought the subject up.

...if some senators and some lobby groups tried to stop this hegde fund legislation, then, these people need to be identified before anybody can do anything. so, the big question is - can you identify who these senators and lobbyist are?

on the same token, since you say that there are american and european hedge funds who are causing all these evil deeds here in thailand, can you identify them so that ALL thais will know who they are?

to fight an evil, you must first know who you are fighting. right?

name the hedge funds.

being a small speck, I certainly cannot do much. but I am sure there are others with more "influence" who can.

expose the hedge funds.

Nick, You just don't get it do you? The United States Congress is so impetent and scared that they cannot pass legislation to regulate or at the very least lend some transparency to the hedge fund industry. In Eurpoe it is the same way, but at least the discussion seems to be "on the table" over there. These funds act with impunity and have absolutly no transparency so what do you think that you could possibly do? I tell you what if you check out the phone books for Darien conneticut, Boca Raton FL., northern N.J., Toronto Canada, Bermuda, the Bahanas, the cayman islands and Berlin you might have a good start as most of the power players in the hedge fund industry operate from these locals. Good luck my friend, perhaps you have the power to do what the U.S. congress obviously doesn't have the balls to attempt!

we only have your accusations. no proof. if you know personally ANY hedge funds who are causing these conspiracies as you claim they are doing, bring it out so that people can confront them.

as for the "other guy" who asked me how I "know" that there is a lot of anti-american sentiment here in thailand. you only have to read the newspapers here to get the general idea of what is going on. gee, you really don't need to go that far either. why, just read the replies from thais on thaivisa.

we are starting to get off-topic here. so, I will stop.

I agree with the above replies you got. and apart from you it seems that other members "dont get it"

Forex is the largest market in the world with a daily turn over of Trillions of dollars. not billions but trillions.

the largest players on this court are usualy central banks and heavy players in forex.

by the way the largest player by far is the US Federal Reserve. some would even go as far as saying that it is the Americans who by sheer ratio are actually controlling this market and do so to promote american interests.

The Hedge Funds and the private equiry funds have become in the last Few years very big players.

some of those funds are called by economists "dumb money" as the investors in those funds dont realy understand what it is the fund is investing in or where the mony is invested they just want to see profis at the end of the year.

Those large funds are making huge amounts of money. and it was published last week about the salaries that some of those hedge funds manages get they were in billions.

Edward S. Lampert made $1.02 billion, while his firm, ESL Investments, raked in a 69 percent return on investment.

Besides Lampert, others in the top 10 of hedge fund managers included James Simons of Renaissance Technologies, $670 million; Bruce Kovner of Caxton Associates, $550 million; Steven Cohen of SAC Capital Advisors, $450 million; David Tepper of Appaloosa Management, $420 million; George Soros of Soros Fund Management, $305 million (Soros was number one in 2003, with $750 million); Paul Tudor Jones II of Tudor Investment Corp., $300 million; Kenneth Griffin of Citadel Investment Group, $240 million; Raymond Dalio of Bridgewater Associates, $225 million; and Israel Englander of Millennium Partners, $205 million.

and that just the americans.

do you undesratand that those guys with those salaries are controlling billions dollar funds and the only objective they have is to make more money and have a bigger return.

Hedge-fund assets globally broke through the $1 trillion mark in July, 2004, with funds invested in Asia approaching 6% of that total.

Dozens of these funds have set up shop in Asia in the past 24 months, hoping to find lucrative opportunities outside the crowded capital markets in Europe and the United States. So why are they investing in Asia and in Thailand??? because the growth rate is better and the lack of monitary controls enable them to do ehat they want.

Aggressive hedge fund managers normally take positions designed to profit from a market decline if one is expected, and perhaps no market "correction" has been as widely anticipated as the latest one in March. Fund managers in Asia were warning of an imminent slide in markets as far back as December. What is surprising about the latest expected drop was how few hedge fund managers appeared to have taken such positions.

Instead, they were trying to take advantage of the bull market for Asian stocks and bonds.

Short-selling, or betting that stocks will fall, is not allowed in some Asian equity markets, but determined short-sellers can use financial derivatives and options to achieve the same effect. When stocks started to move down, though, investors will jumped out en masse, making drops even steeper.

do you understand they are actually going to win a lot of money by crashing the stocks?? do you understand that they are world wide players that can afford to loose in one game if they win more on another? do you understand that The Thai economy is nothing for them and with a single decision they can destroy the country and create another crisis and that at the end of the day they make more moeny from doing it??

But today it is not just the hedge funds that act like hedge funds It is also the proprietary desks of banks like Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley.

Because the banks' traders and hedge fund managers are compensated on the short-term trading profits they make they are not interested any more in Long term investments . they are playing god to other countris so the bonus at the ned of the year will be bigger.

the crisis is coming soon unless the thai govermant and infact every other asian country will take steps to controll forign investement and capital controll. Meanwhile, a 167 percent increase in Vietnam's benchmark stock market index has sparked fears that Hanoi will impose capital controls to keep foreign speculative investments out. Thailand put controls on incoming portfolio capital in December, although it has been relaxing them steadily since then due to international pressure by.... yes you are right those with the big salaries above.

Highdiver, It seems that you can try and explain the situation at hand until you are blue in the face and it really does not matter because some people just don't want to face reality. You are right on about Goldman and Morgan Stanley as well as other large investment banks on wall street and in Europe. I have a friend (who seems to have lost his moral copass years ago) who worked for an arbitrage firm for many years and is now a Sr. VP with Goldman in Manhattan and his clients are virtually all hegde funds, among them some of the Conneticut scumbags that you mentioned. Its funny how quickly the Thai government eased up on the capital controls that they instituted in December 06. I have no doubt that is why the finance minister eventually quit, he obviously could see clearly what was going on and what the fallout would be when the bottom falls out. Thailand really needs to get a newly elected government and constitution ASAP, and they need to institute some well thought out capital controls that will be in the interest of Thailands economy for the long run. In the mean time I fear that when the slide does begin it will be steep and compounded by the hedge funds piling on the short side. I find it kind of funny (sad actually) that so many posters here equate a strong currency with a strong economy, on one of the forums here posters are actually predicting the euro and pound to be 160+ and 240+ respectivley vs. the U.S. dollar by years end, they just don't understand how crippling that would be for the Brittish and European economies. As you well know the US government is loving the weak dollar because it is lowering their trade defecit daily and at the same time keeping uemployment at historic lows and increasing U.S. corporate profits and thus tax revenues, and of course because of that the U.S. stock market has been on a tear recently setting all time highs in virtually every average. Finally in answer to Nicks question, yes there is evil in the world and it is personified by these amoral hedge fund billionaires in Conneticut and elseware who don't care how many peoples lives they destroy as long as they increase their net worth by another 500 million dollars by years end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the nightlife is still here . is an answer why ameicans should come here...lol. it hanst gone anywhere.

Well there was an outrage a few years back when one foreign diplomat was quoted in Time (or Business week or some such mag) as saying the only competitive advantages Thailand had was sex and golf!!!

Don't forget the replacement 'page down' button industry. :o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
not there yet, but with the US GDP coming in at a paltry 1.3% , its only a matter of time before Thailand takes it on the chin....

Four Asian nations hit by 1997-98 financial crisis face vulnerability

Thailand now faces greater risks due to a decline in the ratio of foreign reserves to short-term debt and an increase in short-term capital inflows.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/19/news/currency.php

I agree with you. but maybe not got the same reason.

Thailand is facing another financial crisis vulnerability because huge hedge funds and investment banks have taken position on the thai baht. As such Thailand is now at the mercy of those forign speculators that can decide to draw out and repeat the same crisis as in 97. Unfortunatly this is now a problem not only for thailand but for the whole world. the Huge fund mangers have only one consideration and that is to make more and more profits. they dont care if they can ruin a country or devestate an economy while doing so.

All the economical factors are in favour for thailand to continue growth but a bunch of greedy speculators can realy rock the boat.

there is no way to stop this as if you put limitations on short-term capital inflows the speculators are going to go to the govermants and complain about thailands monitary policy and thailand does not want tpo upset the americans or the europeans. so at the end of the day a few greedy managers are basicly running the world.

Highdiver, You hit the nail on the head! I have posted multiple times on this subject but most people here just don't get it. When the hedge funds decide to get out of their investments and change their baht back in to euros and U.S. dollars then the Thai baht will do an absolute backflip. People don't realize the size and scope of these funds to change capital markets overnight and ruin a small countries economy as well, and you are correct that absolute greed is the only thing that motivates these people. It is truely unconsionable how governments both in the U.S. and Europe have been bought off and make no attempt to have any regulation or oversight on these hedge fund criminals. A good example was the democratic debate in south carolina yesterday, the moderator asked john edwards and hillary clinton the same question about what they would do to institute some oversight on the hedge fund industry if elected and both candidates completely dodged the question and talked about something else. The next question in the debate was directed toward chris dodd (a senator from conneticut that the hegde fund industry has in its back pocket) and you could see senator dodd sweating bullets thinking that he might be getting the same question on the hegde fund industry, but sadly the moderator seeing that he was not going to get a straight answer about hedge funds from these candidiates, changed the line of questioning and you could see the immediate relief on chris dodds face. Just as Jesus overturned the carts of the moneychangers in the temple, we need someone in power with a strong loyal following to turn over the carts of the hedge funds and watch as the cockroaches scrurry, if something isn't done soon then I feel that the price to pay will be devestating.

if you have proof that this is actually happening, then, let us all see it. otherwise, all this conspiracy stuff is old stuff, and the only thing it does is make foreigners more anti-american.

on the other hand, since you seem to think this is true, perhaps you can tell us all what thailand can do to stop this so-called conspiracy being implemented by evil rich americans?

your conspiracy theories are making it so that win or lose, america will look like the one to blame.

jesus, can't someone in this world take the blame for something THEY did for once?

yeah. maybe I am naive about all the evil in this world. so, please enlighten me. but some more constructive thought would help instead of just all the accusations. thank you.

Nick, First of all there is no conspiracy theory going on here, hegde funds and arbitragers have been with us for a while now and their size, strength, and political clout has grown into something that would make the tabacco industry evious. Secondly, this is not a uniquely american phenomonon there are many european hedge funds manipulating the thai market as well as many other markets in asia and elseware. Last week on 60 minutes (or maybe it was 20-20) there was a segment on just this, and senator grassley who had the guts to put forward some rather tame hegde fund legislation on the senate floor was interviewed and said that within 10 minutes of introducing his bill on the senate floor he was contacted by multiple parties(both other senators and lobbyists) to kill the bill. In this same segment it was made clear that on multiple occasions senator dodd has killed similiar bills and then 60 minutes went on to say that dodd recieved over 5 million dollars from the hedge fund industry in his last campaign. These are the hard cold facts my friend, I only wish it was just a bad dream or some bogus conspiracy theory. By the way americans are not to blame but instead are victims of these hedge funds as well. Perhaps when the valuation on the baht does reverse dramatically and some journalist can lay out just how all this occured, then perhaps you will not be so naive the next time around.

ok. I am not disbelieving you. especially if 60 minutes brought the subject up.

...if some senators and some lobby groups tried to stop this hegde fund legislation, then, these people need to be identified before anybody can do anything. so, the big question is - can you identify who these senators and lobbyist are?

on the same token, since you say that there are american and european hedge funds who are causing all these evil deeds here in thailand, can you identify them so that ALL thais will know who they are?

to fight an evil, you must first know who you are fighting. right?

name the hedge funds.

being a small speck, I certainly cannot do much. but I am sure there are others with more "influence" who can.

expose the hedge funds.

Nick, You just don't get it do you? The United States Congress is so impetent and scared that they cannot pass legislation to regulate or at the very least lend some transparency to the hedge fund industry. In Eurpoe it is the same way, but at least the discussion seems to be "on the table" over there. These funds act with impunity and have absolutly no transparency so what do you think that you could possibly do? I tell you what if you check out the phone books for Darien conneticut, Boca Raton FL., northern N.J., Toronto Canada, Bermuda, the Bahanas, the cayman islands and Berlin you might have a good start as most of the power players in the hedge fund industry operate from these locals. Good luck my friend, perhaps you have the power to do what the U.S. congress obviously doesn't have the balls to attempt!

we only have your accusations. no proof. if you know personally ANY hedge funds who are causing these conspiracies as you claim they are doing, bring it out so that people can confront them.

as for the "other guy" who asked me how I "know" that there is a lot of anti-american sentiment here in thailand. you only have to read the newspapers here to get the general idea of what is going on. gee, you really don't need to go that far either. why, just read the replies from thais on thaivisa.

we are starting to get off-topic here. so, I will stop.

I agree with the above replies you got. and apart from you it seems that other members "dont get it"

Forex is the largest market in the world with a daily turn over of Trillions of dollars. not billions but trillions.

the largest players on this court are usualy central banks and heavy players in forex.

by the way the largest player by far is the US Federal Reserve. some would even go as far as saying that it is the Americans who by sheer ratio are actually controlling this market and do so to promote american interests.

The Hedge Funds and the private equiry funds have become in the last Few years very big players.

some of those funds are called by economists "dumb money" as the investors in those funds dont realy understand what it is the fund is investing in or where the mony is invested they just want to see profis at the end of the year.

Those large funds are making huge amounts of money. and it was published last week about the salaries that some of those hedge funds manages get they were in billions.

Edward S. Lampert made $1.02 billion, while his firm, ESL Investments, raked in a 69 percent return on investment.

Besides Lampert, others in the top 10 of hedge fund managers included James Simons of Renaissance Technologies, $670 million; Bruce Kovner of Caxton Associates, $550 million; Steven Cohen of SAC Capital Advisors, $450 million; David Tepper of Appaloosa Management, $420 million; George Soros of Soros Fund Management, $305 million (Soros was number one in 2003, with $750 million); Paul Tudor Jones II of Tudor Investment Corp., $300 million; Kenneth Griffin of Citadel Investment Group, $240 million; Raymond Dalio of Bridgewater Associates, $225 million; and Israel Englander of Millennium Partners, $205 million.

and that just the americans.

do you undesratand that those guys with those salaries are controlling billions dollar funds and the only objective they have is to make more money and have a bigger return.

Hedge-fund assets globally broke through the $1 trillion mark in July, 2004, with funds invested in Asia approaching 6% of that total.

Dozens of these funds have set up shop in Asia in the past 24 months, hoping to find lucrative opportunities outside the crowded capital markets in Europe and the United States. So why are they investing in Asia and in Thailand??? because the growth rate is better and the lack of monitary controls enable them to do ehat they want.

Aggressive hedge fund managers normally take positions designed to profit from a market decline if one is expected, and perhaps no market "correction" has been as widely anticipated as the latest one in March. Fund managers in Asia were warning of an imminent slide in markets as far back as December. What is surprising about the latest expected drop was how few hedge fund managers appeared to have taken such positions.

Instead, they were trying to take advantage of the bull market for Asian stocks and bonds.

Short-selling, or betting that stocks will fall, is not allowed in some Asian equity markets, but determined short-sellers can use financial derivatives and options to achieve the same effect. When stocks started to move down, though, investors will jumped out en masse, making drops even steeper.

do you understand they are actually going to win a lot of money by crashing the stocks?? do you understand that they are world wide players that can afford to loose in one game if they win more on another? do you understand that The Thai economy is nothing for them and with a single decision they can destroy the country and create another crisis and that at the end of the day they make more moeny from doing it??

But today it is not just the hedge funds that act like hedge funds It is also the proprietary desks of banks like Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley.

Because the banks' traders and hedge fund managers are compensated on the short-term trading profits they make they are not interested any more in Long term investments . they are playing god to other countris so the bonus at the ned of the year will be bigger.

the crisis is coming soon unless the thai govermant and infact every other asian country will take steps to controll forign investement and capital controll. Meanwhile, a 167 percent increase in Vietnam's benchmark stock market index has sparked fears that Hanoi will impose capital controls to keep foreign speculative investments out. Thailand put controls on incoming portfolio capital in December, although it has been relaxing them steadily since then due to international pressure by.... yes you are right those with the big salaries above.

Highdiver, It seems that you can try and explain the situation at hand until you are blue in the face and it really does not matter because some people just don't want to face reality. You are right on about Goldman and Morgan Stanley as well as other large investment banks on wall street and in Europe. I have a friend (who seems to have lost his moral copass years ago) who worked for an arbitrage firm for many years and is now a Sr. VP with Goldman in Manhattan and his clients are virtually all hegde funds, among them some of the Conneticut scumbags that you mentioned. Its funny how quickly the Thai government eased up on the capital controls that they instituted in December 06. I have no doubt that is why the finance minister eventually quit, he obviously could see clearly what was going on and what the fallout would be when the bottom falls out. Thailand really needs to get a newly elected government and constitution ASAP, and they need to institute some well thought out capital controls that will be in the interest of Thailands economy for the long run. In the mean time I fear that when the slide does begin it will be steep and compounded by the hedge funds piling on the short side. I find it kind of funny (sad actually) that so many posters here equate a strong currency with a strong economy, on one of the forums here posters are actually predicting the euro and pound to be 160+ and 240+ respectivley vs. the U.S. dollar by years end, they just don't understand how crippling that would be for the Brittish and European economies. As you well know the US government is loving the weak dollar because it is lowering their trade defecit daily and at the same time keeping uemployment at historic lows and increasing U.S. corporate profits and thus tax revenues, and of course because of that the U.S. stock market has been on a tear recently setting all time highs in virtually every average. Finally in answer to Nicks question, yes there is evil in the world and it is personified by these amoral hedge fund billionaires in Conneticut and elseware who don't care how many peoples lives they destroy as long as they increase their net worth by another 500 million dollars by years end.

Hedge funds will not be stopped until they destroy the world economy as the bubble they inflated bursts. That said Thailand has inflamed the situation by putting itself on the radar of the hedge funds courtesy of the Coup and its protectionist regulations and lack of transparancy. I recently returned to Thailand after my honeymoon to be mugged by customs trying to extract duty on a camera I paid UK duty on. After some negotiation my wife agreed on a figure to pay, she explained that showing them the tax invoice would cause them to lose face and would result in them extracting money for something even more spurious. I can quite see how Vietnam is growing at 8% and Thailand less than 4%, indeed Vietnam is planning to compete with India in the provision of English language call centers, which will require a long term co-ordinated approach to education, the chances of this happening in Thailand are sadly zero.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
After some negotiation my wife agreed on a figure to pay, she explained that showing them the tax invoice would cause them to lose face and would result in them extracting money for something even more spurious.

the underlying problem in a nutshell ,

and , as blatantly FALSE as the Emperors new clothes ...........................

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think a lot of people here are underestimating how hard it is to manipulate currency markets.

In terms of some sort of economic crisis, even this lower GDP number is 3 times the GDP growth that the USA is currently experiencing.

With a Coup, The Tsunami, FBA, 30% Currency regulation etc... I'd say its doing pretty ###### fine actually. Some people are just naturally a little negative and look for things to fail, so they can say "I told you so".

I could start a thread with the title "THAILAND GROWS 3 TIMES AS QUICKLY AS THE USA" but it really doesn't mean anything even though it would be a true statement.

"I think a lot of people here are underestimating how hard it is to manipulate currency markets" A very interesting lead off sentence Ben, however you might want to do a little historical reasearch before you post something like that next time, if you do you will find out that only a few years ago the pound sterling was under attack from George Soros and Mr. Soros on his own brought the chancelor of the exchecker to his knees! Now if one man has the ability to manipulate one of the strongest currencies on the planet then just imagine what a group of multi billion dollar hedge fund managers can do to a small country like Thailand. Please go ahead and start that thread comparing GDP growth in the U.S. vs. Thailand, who knows you might even learn something or at least you might be forced to take off those rose colored glasses.

Currency speculators gamble on the future exchange rates, sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesnt. Thats why Soros lost $2 billion in Russia (twice what he made on the pound sterling) and $600 million on Yen in similar gambles, they don't control the market.

In terms of Black Wednesday, Pound Sterling wasn't at that time a particularly strong currency and was sitting in the lower portion of the ERM band (and so the government where obliged to keep it within 6% of any other member currency) with the Germans high interest rates causing the stress on the system. It actually helped the economy, with the UK showing much stronger growth than the rest of the Eurozone for the following 10 years (Double that of Germany's growth), there was a lot of history running up to what happen with the ERM, it wasn't one guy deciding to show up and just buy currency.

If this proved anything it was that markets could NOT be controlled, even by governments.

Even Buffet lost nearly a billion dollars on currency speculation, I think he's the richest man in the world and certainly one of the best businessmen - It was simple he made an educated gamble and lost. Its not a case of control, its educated guesses and risk taking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thailand is facing another financial crisis vulnerability because huge hedge funds and investment banks have taken position on the thai baht. As such Thailand is now at the mercy of those forign speculators that can decide to draw out and repeat the same crisis as in 97.

= rubbish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hedge funds will not be stopped until they destroy the world economy as the bubble they inflated bursts.

more rubbish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hedge funds will not be stopped until they destroy the world economy as the bubble they inflated bursts.

more rubbish

You are, of course, correct.

Hedge funds are opportunists like other investors. No different. While they used to hedge, nowadays they often maintain open positions (the term hedge fund is now a misnomer). They don't bet on large currency movements in one direction in countries they know have the ability to defend themselves. Failing strong regional alliances, countries, like Thailand will unfortunately remain at risk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Failing strong regional alliances, countries, like Thailand will unfortunately remain at risk.

we are facing the opposite in what hedge funds and big speculators like Soros were and are still interested, namely the interesting fact that a currency [THB] is not really vulnerable but shows an unwanted strength. that not only offshore but also onshore. speculators have never been interested in undue strengths of "tiny" currencies like THB because no big gains can be expected. for THB in 1997 and GBP in 1992 the situation was in favour of big gains for the speculators as the BOT and the BOE tried frantically to defend their currencies by buying whatever the shorters threw on the market.

the strength of THB contributes only a fraction to what is now called "Thai economy is in crisis". assuming there is a crisis (which i don't believe) then it is most probably a normal occurence of business cycles. after boom in many cases bust follows.

funnily each and everything negative happening nowadays is blamed on the military government. that the economy cooled down, the Baht strengthened, the visa regulations were [planned] to tighten, the issue of foreign landownership... all happened or was initiated when Thaksin was still in full power as the little emperor of Thailand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They don't bet on large currency movements in one direction in countries they know have the ability to defend themselves. Failing strong regional alliances, countries, like Thailand will unfortunately remain at risk.

This it. One of the reasons why Malaysia got through the 97' crisis better than Thailand; they had a fundamentally more stable economy than Thailand's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They don't bet on large currency movements in one direction in countries they know have the ability to defend themselves. Failing strong regional alliances, countries, like Thailand will unfortunately remain at risk.

This it. One of the reasons why Malaysia got through the 97' crisis better than Thailand; they had a fundamentally more stable economy than Thailand's.

AND they had Mahathir.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...