Brexit brinkmanship: EU orders UK to scrap plan for treaty breach, UK refuses

[robblok]

Just so you guys know the pound dropped a bit, so the people who know see this as a bad thing for the UK. Now there is only a 3 baht difference between euro and pound. It was always a lot more. 

 

People a lot smarter then the Brexiteers on this forum see how this damages the UK.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Nice to admit that on your own you wouldn't have make it.

On our own it would have been a landslide. ????

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Proboscis said:

Actually that is NOT true. The majority who voted in favor of Brexit did not vote for the UK to become a stand alone state with no trade treaties with anyone. If this legislation does go ahead and there is no trade deal with the EU and it is implemented, there will be no trade deal with the USA. Other countries will also be stand-offish. Why would anyone want to sign a trade deal with a government that signs a treaty only to break it within a year?

Thanks, Nancy, Let's do lunch.

[jonclark]

15 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I suppose if you had enough emojis and put them in a line they would stretch across the whole country. Or you could just encircle both London and Glasgow with them?

Definitely. Getting rid of London and Glasgow would be of great benefit to the UK.

[jonclark]

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

I don't know as nothing has been discussed yet, Barnier is waiting for us to bend over and think of England.

But while your there do you regret not taking Mays Brino deal?

No I do not regret taking Mays deal. Although I am sure a very large number of Tories do now. Kinda like the people who regret voting for Brexit now. But that's democracy eventually the wheel will spin full circle and we will want to rejoin the EU.

[nauseus]

13 minutes ago, robblok said:

Just so you guys know the pound dropped a bit, so the people who know see this as a bad thing for the UK. Now there is only a 3 baht difference between euro and pound. It was always a lot more. 

 

People a lot smarter then the Brexiteers on this forum see how this damages the UK.

And there we have it - a fickernus financial guru. 

[jonclark]

21 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

Double post

Edited September 11, 2020 by jonclark

[robblok]

Just now, nauseus said:

And there we have it - a fickernus financial guru. 

I wish I was, id be rich. Just reporting what you can see in the graphs. 

 

However this is a direct result from the actions that are described in this topic. 

 

Id believe the financial markets over some OAP leavers with not that much education.

 

When asked for instance how many of the laws were forced by the EU it was shown it was so little like a few % but still the leavers use it as excuse. One then has to wonder about the education of those people.

[androokery]

I'm not British. And I feel that any step towards nationalism is basically a step towards nazism. I like the idea of the European Union. I like its stated purpose of being a project for peace. There are of course issues with the EU that I don't like. And there are members that I think should be kept outside. Or kept on a very short leash. 

 

The current trend towards nationalism in so many countries at the same time is very dangerous. And intensely stupid. The cost in human lives and suffering when it all goes wrong will be as devastating as it has always been with previous unnecessary wars in Europe. 

So why is the UK taking this step to break the treaty and international law? It is likely that it will have some impact on the credibility of the current administration in regards to future deals and treaties, so there is obviously a cost associated with this decision. For what exactly?

The exact nature of the law being introduced, which breaks the treaty, has been seriously under-reported in international press. It seems to have something to do with Northern Ireland and the Good Friday agreement. 

Going forward with an exit from the EU without solving the issue with Northern Ireland and its border with the EU is mindbogglingly irresponsible. When nationalists argue about the UK's right to decide its own path, they probably mean the right of the English to subjugate other countries, regions and peoples. Northern Ireland is a quite recent addition to the UK - is it even a 100 years old yet? And it seems to be a project very much akin to Tito's Yugoslavian project of moving Serbs into every part of the then Yugoslav nation. And we all know (?) how that ended. 

 

I shouldn't even get into the arguments of what having or not having a hard border on the Irish island would mean. But it is quite obvious that the proposed solution will lead to unrest, probably to violence, most likely to terrorist deaths. Or freedom fighter deaths - depending on your perspective.

 

I feel that the UK, without the English language, would by now be about as significant and relevant as Hungary on the international stage. Once part of a great empire, but now squandered by selfish nationalists and a weird separatist agenda. But they still have the language, which we all use even on this forum, regardless of our nationalities. So I guess the UK still matters. 

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by androokery

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

I wish I was, id be rich. Just reporting what you can see in the graphs. 

 

However this is a direct result from the actions that are described in this topic. 

 

Id believe the financial markets over some OAP leavers with not that much education.

 

When asked for instance how many of the laws were forced by the EU it was shown it was so little like a few % but still the leavers use it as excuse. One then has to wonder about the education of those people.

Followed by a fickernus double whammy. Great! 

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, androokery said:

I'm not British. And I feel that any step towards nationalism is basically a step towards nazism. I like the idea of the European Union. I like its stated purpose of being a project for peace. There are of course issues with the EU that I don't like. And there are members that I think should be kept outside. Or kept on a very short leash. 

 

The current trend towards nationalism in so many countries at the same time is very dangerous. And intensely stupid. The cost in human lives and suffering when it all goes wrong will be as devastating as it has always been with previous unnecessary wars in Europe. 

So why is the UK taking this step to break the treaty and international law? It is likely that it will have some impact on the credibility of the current administration in regards to future deals and treaties, so there is obviously a cost associated with this decision. For what exactly?

The exact nature of the law being introduced, which breaks the treaty, has been seriously under-reported in international press. It seems to have something to do with Northern Ireland and the Good Friday agreement. 

Going forward with an exit from the EU without solving the issue with Northern Ireland and its border with the EU is mindbogglingly irresponsible. When nationalists argue about the UK's right to decide its own path, they probably mean the right of the English to subjugate other countries, regions and peoples. Northern Ireland is a quite recent addition to the UK - is it even a 100 years old yet? And it seems to be a project very much akin to Tito's Yugoslavian project of moving Serbs into every part of the then Yugoslav nation. And we all know (?) how that ended. 

 

I shouldn't even get into the arguments of what having or not having a hard border on the Irish island would mean. But it is quite obvious that the proposed solution will lead to unrest, probably to violence, most likely to terrorist deaths. Or freedom fighter deaths - depending on your perspective.

 

I feel that the UK, without the English language, would by now be about as significant and relevant as Hungary on the international stage. Once part of a great empire, but now squandered by selfish nationalists and a weird separatist agenda. But they still have the language, which we all use even on this forum, regardless of our nationalities. So I guess the UK still matters. 

 

I've never done this before but - goodbye!

[evadgib]

29 minutes ago, robblok said:

Just so you guys know the pound dropped a bit, so the people who know see this as a bad thing for the UK. Now there is only a 3 baht difference between euro and pound. It was always a lot more. 

 

People a lot smarter then the Brexiteers on this forum see how this damages the UK.

"Ficker than us".....again?

We're leaving & couldn't care less what the Ponti's think of our democratically mandated decision to do so.

Edited September 11, 2020 by evadgib

[jonclark]

32 minutes ago, vogie said:

I don't know

Never a truer word spoken. 

 

Sorry couldn't resist -

 

...A bit like Boris and a buscuit tin. 

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Followed by a fickernus double whammy. Great! 

Are you saying that on average the people on here are better educated then those who work at the big financial institutions ? 

 

Because that is what I am saying Im saying that these guys are far smarter then the people who post here. 

 

And yes the second one about the laws I posted because its a favorite leaver topic that is totally untrue.

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

"Ficker than us".....again?

We're leaving & couldn't care less what the Ponti's think of our democratic decision.

I know you don't care but facts are facts. Financial markets are seeing this as stupidity.  These guys are lot brighter then you and me. 

[jonclark]

9 minutes ago, androokery said:

I'm not British. And I feel that any step towards nationalism is basically a step towards nazism. I like the idea of the European Union. I like its stated purpose of being a project for peace. There are of course issues with the EU that I don't like. And there are members that I think should be kept outside. Or kept on a very short leash. 

 

The current trend towards nationalism in so many countries at the same time is very dangerous. And intensely stupid. The cost in human lives and suffering when it all goes wrong will be as devastating as it has always been with previous unnecessary wars in Europe. 

So why is the UK taking this step to break the treaty and international law? It is likely that it will have some impact on the credibility of the current administration in regards to future deals and treaties, so there is obviously a cost associated with this decision. For what exactly?

The exact nature of the law being introduced, which breaks the treaty, has been seriously under-reported in international press. It seems to have something to do with Northern Ireland and the Good Friday agreement. 

Going forward with an exit from the EU without solving the issue with Northern Ireland and its border with the EU is mindbogglingly irresponsible. When nationalists argue about the UK's right to decide its own path, they probably mean the right of the English to subjugate other countries, regions and peoples. Northern Ireland is a quite recent addition to the UK - is it even a 100 years old yet? And it seems to be a project very much akin to Tito's Yugoslavian project of moving Serbs into every part of the then Yugoslav nation. And we all know (?) how that ended. 

 

I shouldn't even get into the arguments of what having or not having a hard border on the Irish island would mean. But it is quite obvious that the proposed solution will lead to unrest, probably to violence, most likely to terrorist deaths. Or freedom fighter deaths - depending on your perspective.

 

I feel that the UK, without the English language, would by now be about as significant and relevant as Hungary on the international stage. Once part of a great empire, but now squandered by selfish nationalists and a weird separatist agenda. But they still have the language, which we all use even on this forum, regardless of our nationalities. So I guess the UK still matters. 

 

The Ireland issue goes back alot longer than 100 years and it is a sectarian issue that can be traced back to Henry 8th and the English Reformation some time in the 1550's. It is an issue that literally divides families and communities and is incredibly complex and ingrained. 

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

Are you saying that on average the people on here are better educated then those who work at the big financial institutions ? 

 

Because that is what I am saying Im saying that these guys are far smarter then the people who post here. 

 

And yes the second one about the laws I posted because its a favorite leaver topic that is totally untrue.

I am saying that you specified leavers as having a low level of education, which is insulting,

 

Now your lyrics have changed but the song remains the same. 

[luckyluke]

54 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Pension. I was wondering when that would pop out. Hurrah!

I was wondering when you would react otherwise than with a "Haha" emoticon.

Hurrah! I make you do it.

[androokery]

9 minutes ago, jonclark said:

The Ireland issue goes back alot longer than 100 years and it is a sectarian issue that can be traced back to Henry 8th and the English Reformation some time in the 1550's. It is an issue that literally divides families and communities and is incredibly complex and ingrained. 

The "issue" is quite old - but NI formally being part of the UK is not even 100 years old, right?

[crobe]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Good faith was part of the agreement. The EU already reneged on this by making completely unreasonable demands that failed to respect the UK's sovereignty.

 

Barnier's tactics have backfired. He's failed.

 

Stop now with this lie Brexiteers

FAKE NEWS

In order to be in bad faith the party has to DO SOMETHING that is not in good faith - like maybe trying to introduce some law against the agreement

The fact that you do not like the negotiating position of the other side is not "bad faith"

 

 

 

[evadgib]

Meanwhile HMG are (still) getting on with it:

Quote

The UK has today secured a free trade agreement with Japan, which is the UK’s first major trade deal as an independent trading nation.

UK and Japan agree historic free trade agreement

 

[vogie]

29 minutes ago, jonclark said:

No I do not regret taking Mays deal. Although I am sure a very large number of Tories do now. Kinda like the people who regret voting for Brexit now. But that's democracy eventually the wheel will spin full circle and we will want to rejoin the EU.

I sure that you'll agree that once the referendum returned a win for leaving the EU, we were going to leave, anything else would have been catastrophic for democracy and indeed our country. So having said that, it was a choice of what deal which suited you the best, you chose to ignore all the deals or options put to you, but if you or the Labour Party didn't buy a raffle ticket you were never going to win a prize. You have by your own apathy landed us where we are today, you have had your last drink in the last chance saloon, you cannot complain when you/remainers are responsible for unwittingly getting us further away from the EU than any Brexiteer could have possibly ever dreamt of.

'Eventually we will rejoin the EU' there, there, of course you will.????????????

[jonclark]

5 minutes ago, androokery said:

The "issue" is quite old - but NI formally being part of the UK is not even 100 years old, right?

Well yes and no - the first act of union in 1800 made all of Ireland part of the UK and NI sort of sprouted out of that until the Irish war on independence after WW1 which created the division that gave rise to NI, so yes i guess you could say NI as a state is 100 years old but it (the land on which the state sits) has been part of the UK for a lot longer, but there is alot of back history. Not really like Titos Yugoslavia. 

[RayC]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Rubbish. It's still May's deal with a few tweaks. It would have taken at least another decade to agree a new one (with significant UK input) and that was not going to happen. 

So Johnson signed a deal (WA) that he didn't believe in? This raises the possibility that he had no intention of honouring it (which seems to be the case). That's an interesting way of negotiating in 'good faith'.

[jonclark]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

I sure that you'll agree that once the referendum returned a win for leaving the EU, we were going to leave, anything else would have been catastrophic for democracy and indeed our country. So having said that, it was a choice of what deal which suited you the best, you chose to ignore all the deals or options put to you, but if you or the Labour Party didn't buy a raffle ticket you were never going to win a prize. You have by your own apathy landed us where we are today, you have had your last drink in the last chance saloon, you cannot complain when you/remainers are responsible for unwittingly getting us further away from the EU than any Brexiteer could have possibly ever dreamt of.

'Eventually we will rejoin the EU' there, there, of course you will.????????????

Sorry the people that wished to remain are resonsible for the shambles the brexiters have created? You are responsible for this mess. I have no idea what the Labour party has to do with this but it probably is their fault, along with the EU / UN etc etc for the complete mess that Boris, May and chums have greated. If only the EU had agreed to all our terms / demands things owuld have been so much similer wouldn't they? What awful people they are.  But you deny all responsibility and create a candyfloss of confected rage (borrowed that one from rees moog) when the coutries of the EU use their own soverign powers to disadvantaged the UK and claim its not fair and not your fault. This mess is your fault - wallow in it and enjoy it. 

 

Like i said I have no personal investment or interest in Brexit, but I am enjoying watching the brexiters furiously polishing the turd that is their 'deal' before presenting it to a rather bewildered and frankly disappointed voter base. 

[RayC]

14 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Meanwhile HMG are (still) getting on with it:

UK and Japan agree historic free trade agreement

 

Excellent news. 

 

Now if only we could agree a FTA with our biggest trading partner. Wouldn't that be something!

[katana]

Don't know why the EU is suddenly getting all moralistic about sticking to and not altering agreements.
Didn't Ireland vote no to both the Nice (2001) and Lisbon Treaties (2008) before the EU made them vote again until they gave the correct result?
Pot, kettle and black springs to mind.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I guess you really don't understand it before the Scots thought the UK would stay in EU that is no longer the case.

 

Do you really think that decisions can't change when new facts emerge ? Sorry but you make absolutely no sense. When conditions change one can have new votes and referendums. 

 

If the UK goes down the drain and suddenly wants to come back a new referendum can be held too. Nothing is forever its all about change.

 

Even I can change my opinion about staying in the EU, and then if enough people think like that we can demand a referendum. There is no such thing as no change.

 

In this case its clear the Scots like the EU always have and when they voted they did not think the UK would leave the EU. Now that has changed so they can leave if they want.

 

Not sure why you don't understand such things. Have you ever owned a company ? If so I would be even more surprised that you don't understand. Maybe you been in employment of one employer your whole life and rigid in your thinking. 

 

 

As you do not answer my questions I will return the favour.

 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, jonclark said:

Sorry the people that wished to remain are resonsible for the shambles the brexiters have created? You are responsible for this mess. I have no idea what the Labour party has to do with this but it probably is their fault, along with the EU / UN etc etc for the complete mess that Boris, May and chums have greated. If only the EU had agreed to all our terms / demands things owuld have been so much similer wouldn't they? What awful people they are.  But you deny all responsibility and create a candyfloss of confected rage (borrowed that one from rees moog) when the coutries of the EU use their own soverign powers to disadvantaged the UK and claim its not fair and not your fault. This mess is your fault - wallow in it and enjoy it. 

 

Like i said I have no personal investment or interest in Brexit, but I am enjoying watching the brexiters furiously polishing the turd that is their 'deal' before presenting it to a rather bewildered and frankly disappointed voter base. 

Quite simply, don't expect to get what you want without voting for it, the parliamentry MPs thought they were being smart by ignoring the wishes of the people, now their chickens have come home to roost and many are out of a job for their deceptive behaviour, the biggest winner in all of this is democracy itself.

[evadgib]

13 minutes ago, RayC said:

Excellent news. 

 

Now if only we could agree a FTA with our biggest trading partner. Wouldn't that be something!

As soon as the ???????? realizes ???????? will be the ones supplying the spirit level we probably will.

Edited September 11, 2020 by evadgib