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AHD versus IP camera?


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Hi, recently I asked here for good CCTV camera brands here. Now it turns out there is a shop close to the home in Bangkok that is selling the brand Hi-View. Any thoughts about that brand?

My main question is: IP or AHD? Look like IP is the new thing and the way to go. More expensive but maybe better experience?

Also what do I need to look after? I have never had a CCTV camera before and don´t even know what to ask for.

Should I go for 4-5 Mega Pixel? I want the video to be stored in the cloud or in the phone. If in the phone then how much space would I need for 1 week storage at 1920x1080 for example? I have seen there are packages with a hard drive. Is that needed when we store the video in the cloud of phone?

And what Horizontal field of angle should I aim for? Look like they have between 85-110 degree.

Is digital zoom a good thing? Mic and loudspeaker? Are there any requirements for the router or will the router from True be enough?

I have also seen cameras with antennas. What is the advantage of that? No need for cable or other too? There must still be a power cable or would that be with battery then?

Many stupid questions I guess but if only getting answers on a fraction of them that would be of help.

Thanks in advance.

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Will try a bit. First, it depends what you want to protect with the cams. Condo or House, indoor or outdoor, protected areas or exposed to the weather, mounted on walls or ceilings / floors.

 

I have Wifi cameras which only require electricity and a running wifi and give me the option to store in the cloud. My cams only record when they detect movement, otherwise there is not storage use. Important is the pic quality (min 1080p, don't go below), the IR quality in night time and what kind of alarms you can define. My cams can send me a SMS when I activate the alarm feature, but for outdoor cams that is a bad idea, every bird, big fly and cat will trigger the alarm. For inside cams that is a great thing when you are away from home. 

 

Now, as far as I know, AHD (analog HD) will require coax cabling to a HD recorder for which you would need a safe space to put it. Normally, it would be in the roof of a house, so that a burglar can not just take the recorder away and all your pics are gone. HR recorders might not give you the option of additional cloud recording, you would have to check that.

 

At the end of the day, it all depends on your security needs. Your cams have two points of failure: wifi and electricity. Wifi cams have therefore double risk of break down, so really you need to review the availability of those 2 services for your protected object. Wifi cams normally come with a SD card that can easily store up to 1 week of recordings (large SD) and with the option of cloud storage, theft of the cams does not affect your backup in the cloud.

 

As far as your wifi, a normal router is more than enough. My 7 cams are all on my 2.4G network and work very well. Storing data depends on what options your cam system gives you for the length of storage. As I said, my cams can store 7 days on a 128GB SD card - multiply that with the number of cams and the number of weeks that you want to keep your data and you will have your number. Not really an amount of data you want to put on your phone... Cloud at the end is all about cost. 

 

Mic and speaker are a good thing... if you get an alarm and want to try and drive away a burglar... or if you have inside cams and leave your kids at home alone and want to scare them when you see what they do... 

 

Me personally, I do not need the most expensive brand, I bought my cams in TuCom for around 1K Baht per piece, Wifi, SD card, some on cloud, others not, good IR, come with mic and speaker (not that I was looking for that), have an app for the phone where I see pics of all cams on one page. I had a cabled system before, it is a pain in the ass for solving problems (you will need a CCTV company for that, as you don't want to climb in your roof...).

 

Almost forgot to add: My cams can only be mounted on floors or ceilings, NOT on walls, and should NOT be exposed to weather. So really, the question about placement must take precedence over price or brand or any other question. It will limit what you can use. The outside cams are under roofs and protected from water, but of course, that limits their upwards visibility 

 

Ok, enough for now, just some thoughts from a person with "normal" cam use requirements with no gold bars or high cash amounts or Van Gogh pictures at home...

Edited by Swiss1960
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1 hour ago, Swiss1960 said:

Will try a bit. First, it depends what you want to protect with the cams. Condo or House, indoor or outdoor, protected areas or exposed to the weather, mounted on walls or ceilings / floors.

 

I have Wifi cameras which only require electricity and a running wifi and give me the option to store in the cloud. My cams only record when they detect movement, otherwise there is not storage use. Important is the pic quality (min 1080p, don't go below), the IR quality in night time and what kind of alarms you can define. My cams can send me a SMS when I activate the alarm feature, but for outdoor cams that is a bad idea, every bird, big fly and cat will trigger the alarm. For inside cams that is a great thing when you are away from home. 

 

Now, as far as I know, AHD (analog HD) will require coax cabling to a HD recorder for which you would need a safe space to put it. Normally, it would be in the roof of a house, so that a burglar can not just take the recorder away and all your pics are gone. HR recorders might not give you the option of additional cloud recording, you would have to check that.

 

At the end of the day, it all depends on your security needs. Your cams have two points of failure: wifi and electricity. Wifi cams have therefore double risk of break down, so really you need to review the availability of those 2 services for your protected object. Wifi cams normally come with a SD card that can easily store up to 1 week of recordings (large SD) and with the option of cloud storage, theft of the cams does not affect your backup in the cloud.

 

As far as your wifi, a normal router is more than enough. My 7 cams are all on my 2.4G network and work very well. Storing data depends on what options your cam system gives you for the length of storage. As I said, my cams can store 7 days on a 128GB SD card - multiply that with the number of cams and the number of weeks that you want to keep your data and you will have your number. Not really an amount of data you want to put on your phone... Cloud at the end is all about cost. 

 

Mic and speaker are a good thing... if you get an alarm and want to try and drive away a burglar... or if you have inside cams and leave your kids at home alone and want to scare them when you see what they do... 

 

Me personally, I do not need the most expensive brand, I bought my cams in TuCom for around 1K Baht per piece, Wifi, SD card, some on cloud, others not, good IR, come with mic and speaker (not that I was looking for that), have an app for the phone where I see pics of all cams on one page. I had a cabled system before, it is a pain in the ass for solving problems (you will need a CCTV company for that, as you don't want to climb in your roof...).

 

Almost forgot to add: My cams can only be mounted on floors or ceilings, NOT on walls, and should NOT be exposed to weather. So really, the question about placement must take precedence over price or brand or any other question. It will limit what you can use. The outside cams are under roofs and protected from water, but of course, that limits their upwards visibility 

 

Ok, enough for now, just some thoughts from a person with "normal" cam use requirements with no gold bars or high cash amounts or Van Gogh pictures at home...

Hi Swiss,

 

That was a lot thank you very much. Very appreciated. Movement detection for example I forgot about. And motion alarm by sms, good stuff! For the camera indoor. I will check that. Should there be a siren for scaring away a thief? The cams will protect a townhome. I was thinking 2 cams in the front in case some one want to steel of just cut the power then the other camera will "see" that. And then I was thinking about 2 cams in the big room on the first floor both opposite walls faced to the middle of the room. The backside is safe. No one can come in that way.

The cams outside will be mounted under a roof on the roof or wall I am not sure for now.

 

I am not sure I understood about the storage. You said 1 camera in 7 days will need 128GB storage? Also with the motion detection? That will give me some problem because that means 512 for 4 cams. OK, I need to buy a big SD card or forget about the phone and instead just put the data in the cloud somewhere. Do you have any idea where I can do that? Is that a difficult setup? Maybe Microsoft or google gmail can be used?

 

You said you had cabled before. So now your cams are with an antenna for the wifi and then battery for the power? No cable at all?

 

 

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If you do go IP, makes sure the cameras are compatible with the speed of your wifi. 

 

I recently wasted a few bucks on a camera that's not compatible with my existing 5Gig wifi router.  It needs a 2.4Gig network.

 

Live and learn...

 

Edit:  Just to be clear, the cameras themselves aren't much of a deterrent.  They're more valuable after the fact, and generally only if you know the thieves and/or the local cops really care enough.  I'm not saying don't get them.  I have a few.  But use them in conjunction with perimeter alarms and motion sensing lights.  Those are to convince any thieves that the house across the street is an easier target.

 

Edited by impulse
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1 hour ago, Captor said:

Hi Swiss,

 

That was a lot thank you very much. Very appreciated. Movement detection for example I forgot about. And motion alarm by sms, good stuff! For the camera indoor. I will check that. Should there be a siren for scaring away a thief? The cams will protect a townhome. I was thinking 2 cams in the front in case some one want to steel of just cut the power then the other camera will "see" that. And then I was thinking about 2 cams in the big room on the first floor both opposite walls faced to the middle of the room. The backside is safe. No one can come in that way.

The cams outside will be mounted under a roof on the roof or wall I am not sure for now.

 

I am not sure I understood about the storage. You said 1 camera in 7 days will need 128GB storage? Also with the motion detection? That will give me some problem because that means 512 for 4 cams. OK, I need to buy a big SD card or forget about the phone and instead just put the data in the cloud somewhere. Do you have any idea where I can do that? Is that a difficult setup? Maybe Microsoft or google gmail can be used?

 

You said you had cabled before. So now your cams are with an antenna for the wifi and then battery for the power? No cable at all?

 

 

First, I have EZVIZ cameras types C6C and C6CN (mixed but only 1 app), all dome cameras.

 

About storage: Yes, each of my cam has a 128GB SD card inside for local storage and through the app, I can decide, whether or not I want to store the data in the EZVIZ cloud itself. I can not chose my own cloud for this model. This is not cheap, I think $60 per year and camera, but then you have 7/24 recording in the could, secure and safe, accessible remotely. How much storage you need is depending on how much motion each cam will catch. Some of my cams have only few movements to record, others almost 18 hours per day (the street facing ones). So yes, storing on the phone is not an option.

 

My cams have a built-in antenna, you don't see it. That is of course possible, because I have quite strong wifi reception on all camera locations (I have a wifi repeater in the backyard, also for my phone and Smart TVs). Cams with a visible antenna will probably work on longer distances than what I have here. 

 

Finally, the cabling I mentioned before was for the connection to the hard drive recorder in the roof. So the backyard cams had visible cables running through the yard to the house, I had them put in pipes for protection. My cams do not come with batteries, they only have electricity and the is the wiring you need. However, putting plugs near the location of the cams is much cheaper than wiring needed for a connection to the HD.

 

Finally about batteries in cams, there are two kinds of such cams:

  • cams with batteries that are used as backup in case of electricity failure, so that they continue recording internally), but please note that your wifi router will also be down (except you have a backup battery for that one as well), so you will not be able to access your cams.
  • cams with batteries as main source of power: Those batteries need regular replace or recharge, so keep your ladder ready and buy a cam system that alerts you to low battery load, otherwise you go dark every so often. Or buy a battery cam system with solar cell battery reload, but hey... that is a question of price.

Again, how much you want to spend depends on the level of security and availability you require. Four cams with SD cards, setup by an electrician, you can have them installed in few hours for 5.000 Baht or less, then pay for cloud services as you go or need. Or you go high-end high-security and you can spend more than you have to protect. 

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One more thing about sirens: I have not seen a cam system that also offers add-ons like door alarms, normale motion detectors, sirens or other perimeter alarms. But there might be, if you go high-end.

 

As @impulse said, this would be a different system and you could then even add smoke detectors et al to the alarm system. when impuls mentions that cams are not really deterrents... I think they are, but of course, an alarm system where the siren goes off will definitely do more. Normally, you would then put the siren at the front, clearly visible, so that a potential thief sees that you are well protected. That said.. I know a guy who installed a siren dummy on his front door, the only function it has is a blinking light to make people believe that there is an alarm system...

Edited by Swiss1960
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16 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

First, I have EZVIZ cameras types C6C and C6CN (mixed but only 1 app), all dome cameras.

 

About storage: Yes, each of my cam has a 128GB SD card inside for local storage and through the app, I can decide, whether or not I want to store the data in the EZVIZ cloud itself. I can not chose my own cloud for this model. This is not cheap, I think $60 per year and camera, but then you have 7/24 recording in the could, secure and safe, accessible remotely. How much storage you need is depending on how much motion each cam will catch. Some of my cams have only few movements to record, others almost 18 hours per day (the street facing ones). So yes, storing on the phone is not an option.

 

My cams have a built-in antenna, you don't see it. That is of course possible, because I have quite strong wifi reception on all camera locations (I have a wifi repeater in the backyard, also for my phone and Smart TVs). Cams with a visible antenna will probably work on longer distances than what I have here. 

 

Finally, the cabling I mentioned before was for the connection to the hard drive recorder in the roof. So the backyard cams had visible cables running through the yard to the house, I had them put in pipes for protection. My cams do not come with batteries, they only have electricity and the is the wiring you need. However, putting plugs near the location of the cams is much cheaper than wiring needed for a connection to the HD.

 

Finally about batteries in cams, there are two kinds of such cams:

  • cams with batteries that are used as backup in case of electricity failure, so that they continue recording internally), but please note that your wifi router will also be down (except you have a backup battery for that one as well), so you will not be able to access your cams.
  • cams with batteries as main source of power: Those batteries need regular replace or recharge, so keep your ladder ready and buy a cam system that alerts you to low battery load, otherwise you go dark every so often. Or buy a battery cam system with solar cell battery reload, but hey... that is a question of price.

Again, how much you want to spend depends on the level of security and availability you require. Four cams with SD cards, setup by an electrician, you can have them installed in few hours for 5.000 Baht or less, then pay for cloud services as you go or need. Or you go high-end high-security and you can spend more than you have to protect. 

 

16 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

First, I have EZVIZ cameras types C6C and C6CN (mixed but only 1 app), all dome cameras.

 

About storage: Yes, each of my cam has a 128GB SD card inside for local storage and through the app, I can decide, whether or not I want to store the data in the EZVIZ cloud itself. I can not chose my own cloud for this model. This is not cheap, I think $60 per year and camera, but then you have 7/24 recording in the could, secure and safe, accessible remotely. How much storage you need is depending on how much motion each cam will catch. Some of my cams have only few movements to record, others almost 18 hours per day (the street facing ones). So yes, storing on the phone is not an option.

 

My cams have a built-in antenna, you don't see it. That is of course possible, because I have quite strong wifi reception on all camera locations (I have a wifi repeater in the backyard, also for my phone and Smart TVs). Cams with a visible antenna will probably work on longer distances than what I have here. 

 

Finally, the cabling I mentioned before was for the connection to the hard drive recorder in the roof. So the backyard cams had visible cables running through the yard to the house, I had them put in pipes for protection. My cams do not come with batteries, they only have electricity and the is the wiring you need. However, putting plugs near the location of the cams is much cheaper than wiring needed for a connection to the HD.

 

Finally about batteries in cams, there are two kinds of such cams:

  • cams with batteries that are used as backup in case of electricity failure, so that they continue recording internally), but please note that your wifi router will also be down (except you have a backup battery for that one as well), so you will not be able to access your cams.
  • cams with batteries as main source of power: Those batteries need regular replace or recharge, so keep your ladder ready and buy a cam system that alerts you to low battery load, otherwise you go dark every so often. Or buy a battery cam system with solar cell battery reload, but hey... that is a question of price.

Again, how much you want to spend depends on the level of security and availability you require. Four cams with SD cards, setup by an electrician, you can have them installed in few hours for 5.000 Baht or less, then pay for cloud services as you go or need. Or you go high-end high-security and you can spend more than you have to protect. 

Very good information. My idea was to let the cameras send the videos to the cloud directly. But it look like the data must be sent to a hard drive recorder first (by wifi or cable) and then from there to the router and the cloud? Is that correct?

 

OK. Understood about sirens and security systems.

 

About IP or AHD is the IP camera using more wifi capacity as Impulse says above. So I need to check that up as well. But IP is better considering picture quality right?

But maybe very little difference about quality so Maybe better go for a AHD analogue camera..

On the webpage https://shopee.co.th/ezviz_official I can not see that they are mention IP or AHD at all. But the EZVIZ looks very good. Look like more High quality than the Hi View I have looked at before https://www.hiviewproduct.com/

In the other hand they are talking about IP and AHD https://www.hiviewproduct.com/camera-hiview

What is the point with an SD-card if there is a hard drive recorder and the cloud?

I start to be more and more confused about what to buy 🙂

 

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19 hours ago, impulse said:

I recently wasted a few bucks on a camera that's not compatible with my existing 5Gig wifi router.  It needs a 2.4Gig network.

I would think that every 5 GHz router also supports 2.4 GHz, but not the other way around

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14 minutes ago, Susco said:

I would think that every 5 GHz router also supports 2.4 GHz, but not the other way around

 

Dual band routers do.  But I'm stuck with the router that came from the satellite TV/ internet provider.  I could cobble a 2.4 Gb solution into the home wifi, but that would cost more than the camera I can't use at 5 Gb.

 

 

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Used to install these things for a living. Put up several hundred on the Airport Rail Link back in the day. We used all Bosch IP with high priced software.

 

For general home use I would go with Hikvision. Important thing is the software. These cameras are all made in China. Hardware is great but the software generally sucks. Hikvison is usable and the hardware is fairly reliable.

 

I find 25FPS at 720HD is the best setup. Get one with onboard SD card.  256GB SD card will store a months worth if you need constant coverage. By adjusting the FPS (frames per second) you can manipulate the number of days stored . If you set it up to only record on motion detection get a lot more days. The software will do all that for you.

 

Forget the bells and whistles. The most important consideration is video management. " Show me what happened last Tuesday between 9 and 11."

 

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18 minutes ago, lou norman said:

Used to install these things for a living. Put up several hundred on the Airport Rail Link back in the day. We used all Bosch IP with high priced software.

 

For general home use I would go with Hikvision. Important thing is the software. These cameras are all made in China. Hardware is great but the software generally sucks. Hikvison is usable and the hardware is fairly reliable.

 

I find 25FPS at 720HD is the best setup. Get one with onboard SD card.  256GB SD card will store a months worth if you need constant coverage. By adjusting the FPS (frames per second) you can manipulate the number of days stored . If you set it up to only record on motion detection get a lot more days. The software will do all that for you.

 

Forget the bells and whistles. The most important consideration is video management. " Show me what happened last Tuesday between 9 and 11."

 

Hello and thanks!

What about cloud storage? Is that not the best? Onboard SD card can be stolen or not?

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I think Hikvision supports cloud. Haven't looked at their software lately and never had a card stolen. Most of the time these things just sit there and record. Nobody looks at the video until something happens. CCTV never prevents anything, just shows you what happened after the fact.

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4 hours ago, Captor said:

 

Very good information. My idea was to let the cameras send the videos to the cloud directly. But it look like the data must be sent to a hard drive recorder first (by wifi or cable) and then from there to the router and the cloud? Is that correct?

 

OK. Understood about sirens and security systems.

 

About IP or AHD is the IP camera using more wifi capacity as Impulse says above. So I need to check that up as well. But IP is better considering picture quality right?

But maybe very little difference about quality so Maybe better go for a AHD analogue camera..

On the webpage https://shopee.co.th/ezviz_official I can not see that they are mention IP or AHD at all. But the EZVIZ looks very good. Look like more High quality than the Hi View I have looked at before https://www.hiviewproduct.com/

In the other hand they are talking about IP and AHD https://www.hiviewproduct.com/camera-hiview

What is the point with an SD-card if there is a hard drive recorder and the cloud?

I start to be more and more confused about what to buy 🙂

 

Let me try to reduce your confusion:

  • AHD cameras are generally wired with cables from the camera to the HD recorder in your house. They do NOT require Wifi and the electricity to the cameras comes through the cables from the HD recorder, so only the recorder will need an electric plug. AHD cameras do not need a SD card for recording, all the recording is on the hard drive. You only need Wifi to access the HD recorder with an App on your phone. Mostly, the App will be provided by the HD manufacturer, but there are alsco generic CCTV apps available 
  • IP cameras connect through Wifi to your router. EZVIZ cameras are IP cams, as far as I know, they do not offer AHD. Normally, the manufacturer of the camera provides an App, EZVIZ has such an app. Those cameras CAN have an internal SD card for internal recording and they CAN connect to a cloud for external recording (EZVIZ offers their own, paid for cloud), but you could as well use the cameras for live view only without any recording anywhere. This does not make much sense, but it is possible.
  • About wifi capacity: I had a "normal" 50/20 contract with DTAC when I installed my first cams and that was plenty. Yes, IP cams are depending on wifi to record to a oloud (but still can record on the internal SD card), unlike AHD which record independent from wifi to the HD recorder and only need wifi for viewing. 

Quality differences between AHD (cable) and IP (wifi) cameras can come from different points.

  • First of all, the resolution of the camera which can be 2 MP (1080p), 4, 5 or more MP. Also for the night, the quality of the IR is important, colour quality etc. That is the most important point to look for.
  • Second the recording. A harddisk (HD) recorder will be more reliable as an SD card inside a camera, but you should not really have too much issues. When the camera is in a "hot" space, then the SD card might lose recording quality over time, so is is wise to change it maybe yearly. AHD cameras will deliver the camera quality directly to the HD through the coax cable.
  • Finally your Internet (Wifi) connection. This will influence the quality of what you see in your app AND it will influence the quality of what will be delivered to your cloud, if you choose this option. 

I can not give you any information about quality difference between EZVIZ and HiView, because I don't know the second brand. All I can tell you is that I am happy with EZVIZ, my first bought cams run for 3 years now without problems.

 

For your town house and what you said you want to do, Wifi cams seem the best solution. They are cheaper, they do not require a HD recorder, they do not require extensive wiring from the cam to the recorder, they only need a plug for the electricity. So the total hardware cost will be lower as well as the installation costs and maintenance will also be easier and cheaper. Whether or not you use only SD cards or also a cloud is completely up to you.

 

What I would do is go shopping around in a place like TuCom. Before you go there, take you phone, go to the spots where you want the cameras installed and check the quality of the Wifi reception at those points (you want to have maximum bars for the wifi in those spots). Explain what you need (4 cams), maybe bring pictures where you want the cams be placed, tell the vendor that you want Wifi and ask about storage in cloud. Important is whether it is a private cloud from the manufacturer (like EZVIZ has), as those clouds are much more expensive than a google cloud (as one example). You would want a cam where you can choose your cloud for yourself. 

 

One last point - I have just seen that on your links: There are HD recorders for IP cameras as well. You could buy such a recorder (watch the price) in order to not have a cloud. However: If you have a break-in and the thief takes the recorder with you, all your data is lost. Therefore, the HD recorder needs to be in a hidden place (like I wrote before invisible in the roof of your house). 

 

Again: Don't confuse yourself too much comparing products on the internet, talk with 2 or 3 vendors about your specific needs and then decide what is shall be. 

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