Popular Post JackThompson Posted September 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 17, 2020 5 hours ago, CorpusChristie said: Retirement visas can be got from inside Thailand , no one is getting kicked out . It just the people who were pushing their luck and hoping to get a free visa amnesty extension who are having to leave . Every Country has a visa policy and everyone has to leave that Country when their visa expires It's just those not willing to pay off immigration via agents who are getting kicked-out - same, same as pre-covid. 5 hours ago, checkered flag said: That only leave the group that just wants to stay in Thailand by any means possible. These are he border bump crowd, who get phoney ed visas or whatever. Bad-Guys on "phoney" visas are still as welcome as ever by immigration - or did you miss all the threads on ed, fake-volunteer, fake-medical etc - many still running? 5 hours ago, checkered flag said: If one has the means an Elite Visa is available for about 500K baht for 5 years. That's about $15,000 or $3,000/year. If that's beyond one's means their contribution to the Thai economy must be very little. It's not per-year - it's all up front. It is also a rip-off - paying a load of money for permission to spend foreign-sourced money into a nation's economy. Even worse, ligting that 500K Baht on fire reduces the amount of available money the applicant would have spent in Thai businesses, instead, by that amount. Better to say, if you come live here from a higher-wage nation (so not coming to work for illegal-job peanut-wages), and can show X in spending over time, we will give YOU a Free Visa Extension, and a HUGE Thanks!!! It's why immigration smile, and are friendly, when you travel to most countries - unlike here. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post uberfarang Posted September 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, checkered flag said: I counter your question with mine. What does Thailand gain by letting them stay? I ask the same question ever night when I wash the dishes. What does any country has to gain by having tourists? That shouldn't be very hard to answer. Even a small contribution to the economy is a contribution. We are not taking Thais' jobs, we are helping some of them keeping theirs. 4 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bestie Posted September 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 17, 2020 (edited) That some people think they are still in a better position then others because of their Visa. Oh you got a super duper special retirement and marriage Visa... You... out...... If the current situation haven't woken you up then you still lost in a dream. Edited September 17, 2020 by bestie 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkered flag Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, JackThompson said: It's just those not willing to pay off immigration via agents who are getting kicked-out - same, same as pre-covid. Bad-Guys on "phoney" visas are still as welcome as ever by immigration - or did you miss all the threads on ed, fake-volunteer, fake-medical etc - many still running? It's not per-year - it's all up front. It is also a rip-off - paying a load of money for permission to spend foreign-sourced money into a nation's economy. Even worse, ligting that 500K Baht on fire reduces the amount of available money the applicant would have spent in Thai businesses, instead, by that amount. Better to say, if you come live here from a higher-wage nation (so not coming to work for illegal-job peanut-wages), and can show X in spending over time, we will give YOU a Free Visa Extension, and a HUGE Thanks!!! It's why immigration smile, and are friendly, when you travel to most countries - unlike here. I don't know about you, but 500K is not a huge amount of money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkered flag Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, uberfarang said: What does any country has to gain by having tourists? That shouldn't be very hard to answer. Even a small contribution to the economy is a contribution. We are not taking Thais' jobs, we are helping some of them keeping theirs. You sound like an entitled western tourist who doesn't want to make a real contribution to Thai society. Thais are always very welcoming and friendly. You don't understand that this isn't acceptance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JackThompson Posted September 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 17, 2020 3 hours ago, 2 is 1 said: I don't understand why they should continue amnesty! If you not work here, be under 50, whitout Thai wife/kids, don't have Elite Visa. You normaly not stay here long time like now! How many do visa run's many times/year and where they get they money to "help" this coundry!? If you are not in group what i mention before, then you not give much to this country! You are normal tourist who use system's loophole for your own benifit! You can take your backpack and move that to other coundry, nobody cry's a river for that! Bye bye ???? You consulted the Thai business owners and their employees about the "nobody cry" part? I didn't think so - you just don't care a whit about them. Sadly, many share this blindness. Those never should have had troubles staying here in the first place, provided they demonstrated they still had money, by making visa runs and not being found destitute. No farang-welfare here, so "no money" = "homeless" - easy to spot. In fact, it was long-standing policy to allow them here for DECADES - no issues until a few years ago, when Immigration decided that they could boot out 98% of them, to coerce payoffs from the other 2%. Like you, they don't concern themselves with the plight of Thais who depended on their spending - focused solely on the agent-envelope income. Paid in-country extensions, like the PI uses (> 3 years stay per-entry possible) are better than visa-runs for the Thai economy and govt - the money goes straight to the govt - none wasted in neighboring countries - all spent here. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkered flag Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, bestie said: That some people think they are still in a better position then others because of their Visa. Oh you got a super duper special retirement and marriage Visa... You... out...... If the current situation haven't woken you up then you still lost in a dream. I live a normal life an am part of my Thai community. I'm responsible for myself and family as I should be. I'm in a position to help others, but concentrate on education but few handouts. Personal responsibility is a big thing with me but I'm always willing to help those in true need. Currently, I'm helping a niece and nephew with university expenses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkered flag Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, JackThompson said: You consulted the Thai business owners and their employees about the "nobody cry" part? I didn't think so - you just don't care a whit about them. Sadly, many share this blindness. Those never should have had troubles staying here in the first place, provided they demonstrated they still had money, by making visa runs and not being found destitute. No farang-welfare here, so "no money" = "homeless" - easy to spot. In fact, it was long-standing policy to allow them here for DECADES - no issues until a few years ago, when Immigration decided that they could boot out 98% of them, to coerce payoffs from the other 2%. Like you, they don't concern themselves with the plight of Thais who depended on their spending - focused solely on the agent-envelope income. Paid in-country extensions, like the PI uses (> 3 years stay per-entry possible) are better than visa-runs for the Thai economy and govt - the money goes straight to the govt - none wasted in neighboring countries - all spent here. Sorry that you're caught up in you illusions that visa runs were OK. In reality they were a work around for those who couldn't or wouldn't meet the financial responsibility of TI. It's sad but the virus has ended your scheme, but the Thai government has been very kind giving you 6 months to get it straight. Sound like the PI might be a better future choice for you. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JackThompson Posted September 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 17, 2020 2 hours ago, tomazbodner said: If Thai girls go with them to other countries, then send back the money to their families, as they often do, then Thailand will lose nothing, maybe even get more, while get rid of the serial complainers who hate the country anyway. You might want to ask those Thai "girls" (as you call them) if they WANT to choose between: Leave Your Homeland Lose Your Husband Breadwinner ... assuming anyone else thinks the opinion of the Thai Citizen in the equation matters, as I do. And it is those carrying out policies that make Thais poorer who hate the country. Multi-generation Thai citizens are "the country" - not corrupt bureaucracies that take the wealth their productivity creates, while executing policies that make them poorer. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JackThompson Posted September 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 17, 2020 Just now, checkered flag said: Sorry that you're caught up in you illusions that visa runs were OK. In reality they were a work around for those who couldn't or wouldn't meet the financial responsibility of TI. It's sad but the virus has ended your scheme, but the Thai government has been very kind giving you 6 months to get it straight. Sound like the PI might be a better future choice for you. Long standing policy for decades = "illusion"?? Agree it was a stupid system. The PI's paid-extension system was much better. The only "financial obligation" Immigration cares about is a brown-envelope - they "overlook" faked bank-money from an agent, from those who don't have it. The auto-extension ending didn't end my long-standing marriage to a Thai. I received an embassy-letter, also. Nor does it end/change the situation for others - Immigraton still accepting agent-money applications for ed, volunteer, medical today for those w/o 50+ or Thai family. The latter get the standard agent-options. I did read the price (brown-envelope payoff money) is going up, though. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post uberfarang Posted September 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, checkered flag said: You sound like an entitled western tourist who doesn't want to make a real contribution to Thai society. Thais are always very welcoming and friendly. You don't understand that this isn't acceptance. Entitled to what? As a tourist, my utility isn't to contribute to the society but to the economy by bringing in foreign currency. I will happily be spending elsewhere, where tourists are welcomed. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingThai Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 37 minutes ago, Wongkitlo said: You can't answer the question. What does Thailand gain by throwing them out? From a public policy perspective it could very well be that Thailand (the police, immigration, government) regards many of these "last remainers" as problem individuals who have been sticking around in Thailand for a long time already (many way longer than when C-19 first arrived) and this is a unique opportunity to flush them out. Policy and national security matters in most cases outweigh the minor economic damages such a limited action will cause. And the Thai Government will have a pretty good idea how many people are REALLY affected by not providing a further amnesty. I bet you it's far less than what folks here believe to be correct and judging by the immigration stats for August posted by ExpatOilWorker above you can see that the trend went towards people leaving. A lot of them and you bet the numbers were even higher in June and July. September will also see many on the outbound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomazbodner Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, JackThompson said: You might want to ask those Thai "girls" (as you call them) if they WANT to choose between: Leave Your Homeland Lose Your Husband Breadwinner ... assuming anyone else thinks the opinion of the Thai Citizen in the equation matters, as I do. And it is those carrying out policies that make Thais poorer who hate the country. Multi-generation Thai citizens are "the country" - not corrupt bureaucracies that take the wealth their productivity creates, while executing policies that make them poorer. You'd be surprised how many Thai ladies left their homeland, and how many more are hoping for it... Though, admittedly, that's mostly the ones who have never tried to live abroad and think it's all milk and honey in the farangland... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkered flag Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, uberfarang said: Entitled to what? As a tourist, my utility isn't to contribute to the society but to the economy by bringing in foreign currency. I will happily be spending elsewhere, where tourists are welcomed. Well I guess you're going then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trujillo Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 The government makes more money than that in CCTV traffic fines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JackThompson Posted September 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 17, 2020 2 hours ago, checkered flag said: They've been told for 6 months to get their act together and they don't. How do you expect others to do things correctly, when this group doesn't? BTW, they are technically on an overstay and that's illegal, except for the amnesty. No, they are NOT on any type of 'overstay' - they received an automatic-extension of their existing extension from the Thai cabinet. I don't know what 'act together' has to do with the covid-situation, which is blocking the normal, legal means many used to stay in Thailand, before. It sounds like some sort of moralizing, self-righteous judgement of others, to me. If immigration want people to do things "correctly," they can Stop All "VIP if you pay us off" Agent Service, and quit pushing honest appicants into the "agent-only" queue by NOT following a standard, nationwide set of published rules. If they cared about Thais, they could also offer extension-options for those under 50 with foreign-sourced incomes from overseas businesses, as other nations have. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberfarang Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, checkered flag said: Well I guess you're going then. Of course. Never intended to overstay my welcome here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomazbodner Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, JackThompson said: If they cared about Thais, they could also offer extension-options for those under 50 with foreign-sourced incomes from overseas businesses, as other nations have. I think there's still investment visa. There's Elite visa. First one is 10 million baht, I think, the second is a lot cheaper. But that's beside the point. Every country's government decides who they want and who they don't want in their country. You have no voice in this. I have no voice in this. You'd need to find 30+ million Thais to vote for ThaiRakFarang party for a slim hope of getting something like this through (before a coup reverses it). Dream on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JackThompson Posted September 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 17, 2020 1 hour ago, tomazbodner said: I think there's still investment visa. There's Elite visa. First one is 10 million baht, I think, the second is a lot cheaper. But that's beside the point. Every country's government decides who they want and who they don't want in their country. You have no voice in this. I have no voice in this. You'd need to find 30+ million Thais to vote for ThaiRakFarang party for a slim hope of getting something like this through (before a coup reverses it). Dream on. The investment-visa was more workable when it was 3M Baht, as many would buy a condo for around that. That scheme is better than many others, in-general, as it is MUCH more economically-productive for the country than "in the bank" savings-acct money. Sadly, immigration don't allow investment-accounts. The "elite" or similar long-stay is a bad-idea from every angle - money taken from the economy, and not at a price relative to the cost of living here. Much better for any-age applicant to simply show foreign-income transferred here, pay tax on that amount, and be welcome for another 6-mo, year, or whatever. But, you are correct that you and I and other foreigners should not be making policy. Glad we can agree on something. I would go further, and say that I have no issue if foreigners involved in policial demonstrations are rounded-up and booted - the same as should happen in my passport country (but sadly does not). That doesn't change the practical analysis, however - current Immigration policy in Thailand - and many other countries including my passport-country - does not serve its citizens' interests at all. Thailand goes a step further, by adding a "middle finger in your face" corruption-factor to their process. This pushes out good-guys of all sorts away - including businesses/investors - due to their not wanting to be involved in or burdened by corruption - or deal with the instability which accompanies it. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansnl Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 22 hours ago, FlyingThai said: A lot of speculation in this post and who told you this fantasy that Thai women go husband shopping overseas and then said man returns to Thailand with her? The issue of the post is the loss of money for Thailand. Not the afterthought about husband shopping, as you call it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ehgnyc Posted September 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2020 There was a post on one of the threads that rang the most true to me. I can't find it now. It made it clear that this isn't something the government is doing to foreigners, it's to their own people. They want lots of businesses to fail so the elites can buy up their properties cheap. I find that incredibly sad. From what I can understand $1000 USD per agent visa is going in the pocket of an immigration chief. I'm told they're all millionaires. If I was asked to give that money to the poor or to help the environment of this country I would have been fighting to be the first to sign up. It is a shame that to be an expat here means having to check your moral compass at the border. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomchaiCNX Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 The OP tries to be logic but than he forgot that a politician's mind works different. Q: how much is 50 +50? A. normal person 100 A. Politician 80 for me and 20 for you 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NoshowJones Posted September 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2020 23 hours ago, CorpusChristie said: Retirement visas can be got from inside Thailand , no one is getting kicked out . It just the people who were pushing their luck and hoping to get a free visa amnesty extension who are having to leave . Every Country has a visa policy and everyone has to leave that Country when their visa expires In normal times yes, but this is not normal times, and unlike the unelected "government" bigwigs, thousands of peoples livelihoods are at stake here, and Thailand needs as many tourists, retirees as possible to contribute to that. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CLW Posted September 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 18, 2020 Let alone the valid calculation of the spending power, just imagine how much the government could make if they apply the Special tourist visa to foreigners in the country who would have to leave on 26. If I remember correctly, it's 1,900 Baht for every thirty days x months until end of the scheme November 2021 x number of long-term tourists. Not rocket science this is a huge amount that Thailands' missing out. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkered flag Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, possum1931 said: In normal times yes, but this is not normal times, and unlike the unelected "government" bigwigs, thousands of peoples livelihoods are at stake here, and Thailand needs as many tourists, retirees as possible to contribute to that. I take exception to you claiming thousand of people's livelihood is at stake. That many be true from closing down the borders to everyone, but having a few people forced to leave (who probably don't spend much) is not true. Those with means have many options to convert to long term visas, but those without means don't and will have to leave. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkered flag Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, CLW said: Let alone the valid calculation of the spending power, just imagine how much the government could make if they apply the Special tourist visa to foreigners in the country who would have to leave on 26. If I remember correctly, it's 1,900 Baht for every thirty days x months until end of the scheme November 2021 x number of long-term tourists. Not rocket science this is a huge amount that Thailands' missing out. You seem to be stuck that many thousand will be affected. In reality it might be in the hundreds. The 1,900 baht/30 days would be eaten up in administrative costs, so no net gain IMO. Best to keep it clear and clean. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerandDog Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 "There is a lot of other countries in tropic areas with low living costs like Thailand, who offers better retirement conditions." Name them please, as most of the countries that you imply that offer better retirement conditions do NOT have long term retirement visas as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max69xl Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 "they are buzy to kick a lot of middle spenders, covid free farrangs, out of the country, spenders which are sure income for Thailand" What make you think that the so called "stranded" tourists have a lot of money to spend? I know of several in my neighborhood, and they don't spend much money. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickudon Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Anybody who is here on an 'O' or 'OA' visa could have got an extension, as long as they qualified. Most true tourists repatriated months ago, because most of them need to get back to work or to homes. Anybody else I think is considered as 'suspicious' by the government, and suspected of illegally working or criminal activities ... hence why the government is doing little to help them. I do think that immigration should offer a 'clean slate' to those people who have been on amnesty and let them get an annual extension (if they qualify) or a one off 60 day visa if not. Also apply a little discretion for those who have fallen through the cracks through no fault of their own. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackThompson Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 1 hour ago, rickudon said: Anybody who is here on an 'O' or 'OA' visa could have got an extension, as long as they qualified. If only that were true. Maybe, unless they "changed the rules" right before you applied, as happened to me this year w/ Work Permit, multiples of the required income proven, living with my Thai wife for years. Not Good Enough - LOADS of new papers needed. And then, to re-apply later with all the new paperwork they added - not acceptable if your business used the covid tax-holiday or closed the office to have everyone work remote to avoid catching covid (the rent-savings helped keep the business alive and my paycheck coming). This is not a new thing. Immigration have added "new unpublished rules" to block my extensions at multiple offices around the country over years, including Unobtanium landlord docs though will be doing a home-visit to verify Proven income doesn't count if not a "state pension" Cannot use proven-income of any kind for a Non-O "change of visa" application even with MFA-stamped embassy-statement PLUS bank-letter proof ... etc. Always a new made-up excuse to try to force agent-money - and furious when they see the Non-O-ME, which didn't pay them off. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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