Corruption

[Neeranam]

4 hours ago, Phillip9 said:

There is an anti corruption office, but they don't take complaints unless you give them a bribe.

I was at my hotel fitness club and noticed some very nice cars in the parking area, Jaguars, Benz, Range Rovers(unusual for Khon Kaen). When getting in the lift, I noticed that anti-corruption people were having a seminar. 

[Neeranam]

I've had action taken against corrupt officers by contacting Team Korn Chatikavanij. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Neeranam

[BangkokReady]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

It is common that the agents use some offices north. KK is one. Also some use Pattaya.

So, if it goes through these offices, why do other offices tolerate it, or even encourage it through their resistance to legitimate visa applications?

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

The thing is doing the extension part yourself you were either unaware or whatever that the extension needs to be done where the non O was obtained.

 

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

I'm quite certain that such a rule doesn't exist. I asked you if you can provide a source which states such a rule.

It's Immigration policy 

VE or TV > Non O > Extension must be processed at the same IO.

The Non O has to be approved and the documents submitted for the Non O are the same as for the extension except for the seasoning of funds period.

It's a two step process to go from VE/TV to an annual extension.

[Maestro]

54 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I've had action taken against corrupt officers by contacting Team Korn ChatikaChatikaChatikavanij. 

 

How does that work? How is contact with the Team Korn Chatikavanij made?

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

 

How does that work? How is contact with the Team Korn Chatikavanij made?

You can do it by Facebook or there is an email I think it is [email protected]

https://www.facebook.com/KornGoThailand

https://www.facebook.com/teamkornENG

Edited September 17, 2020 by Neeranam

[luckyluke]

3 hours ago, Jlop said:

Well lucky you. But it's a good thing it didn't make you feel all smug and superior.

I don't feel lucky because in 20 years, I get yearly my "retirement visa" after presenting the correct, necessary documents. 

In my opinion the lucky ones are those who's documents are incorrect, or not complete, but nevertheless get their "visa" after paying a bribe. 

In many countries bribing is non-existent, and thus no "visa" at all. 

[Tanoshi]

57 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Can you provide an official source for this?

What you say doesn't make much sense, because it's always the immigration office in the province where you are living in which is responsible for you. So if you moved to another province after getting the visa and before applying for the extension, then you would do each of those steps at a different immigration office.

Ministerial regulations which we don't have access to. Ask in your IO.

 

As documented before on the forum, if you apply for the Non O as part of a 'conversion' from a VE/TV entry to an extension you must apply at the same IO as it's a two step process.

The same financial proof that is accepted and approved at regional level for the Non O, is also used for the annual extension application.

 

Another example is an extension based on marriage, which is a two step process.

You apply at your local office and if accepted, they send it to the regional office for final approval and you receive a 30 day under consideration stamp. You cannot apply for the extension in one Province then move to another Province expecting the new IO to issue the stamp after approval in a different Province even if you submitted a new TM30 to officially change your address.

 

[JackThompson]

11 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

So, if it goes through these offices, why do other offices tolerate it, or even encourage it through their resistance to legitimate visa applications?

The "other offices" have no jurisdictional control.  They could complain to the higher-ups which have this control, but their complaints will not be heeded. 

 

This is because the agent-partner envelope-system works like a pyramid-scheme.  A low-level IO caught not paying up the chain on envelopes, and/or operating a non-approved scheme, will be busted. 

 

Thus, the law against corruption is used to enforce distribution of the proceeds of corruption to the upper-level personnel, who benefit the most from the scheme - which is why they do not simply shut down all agent/fixer activity - like the Philippines did, with excellent results for all.

[JackThompson]

12 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

It's Immigration policy 

VE or TV > Non O > Extension must be processed at the same IO.

The Non O has to be approved and the documents submitted for the Non O are the same as for the extension except for the seasoning of funds period.

It's a two step process to go from VE/TV to an annual extension.

 

7 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Ministerial regulations which we don't have access to. Ask in your IO.

 

As documented before on the forum, if you apply for the Non O as part of a 'conversion' from a VE/TV entry to an extension you must apply at the same IO as it's a two step process.

The same financial proof that is accepted and approved at regional level for the Non O, is also used for the annual extension application.

 

I have seen this reported here on the forum.  But it does seem to be yet another so-called "policy" which is not documented anywhere or based on any law/regulation, and which used strictly to generate agent-money. 

 

So, similar to the "must go out to a consulate for a 90-Day "Non-B Visa" unless your boss pays a law-firm or accountant to hand over an enveloope, at which point you don't have to go-out, after all. 
Similar is done for ED 90-days in-country. 
Also the same for those on Non-Imm entries changing extension-reasons (family-based to work, etc).

No reason not to publish it, if a rule applicants are expected to comply with - except we all know why these imaginary-rules exist - to manufacture the need for agent/lawyer/accountant envelopes.

 

Quote

Another example is an extension based on marriage, which is a two step process.

You apply at your local office and if accepted, they send it to the regional office for final approval and you receive a 30 day under consideration stamp. You cannot apply for the extension in one Province then move to another Province expecting the new IO to issue the stamp after approval in a different Province even if you submitted a new TM30 to officially change your address.

The case of "under consideration" is not the same.  Steps like home-visits may occur during that period.

Edited September 18, 2020 by JackThompson

[richard_smith237]

OP [Jlop] please confirm this is what happened. 

 

- ME Visa needed a Border Hop to reset another 90 days

- Unable to Border Hop due to Emergency Decree and border closure

- Used an Agent to apply for a yearly extension (Non-Imm O ?)

- Agent uses a ‘favourable’ Immigration Office (up north) to obtain the extensions and circumnavigate official requirements 

- Immigration Office in BKK unable to ‘approve extension’, it should be approved by office of application. 

- Immigration Office in BKK recognises the ‘convenience’ of Op not having to travel and offers to ‘make things easier’ by taking a risk by circumnavigating regulations and approving in BKK.

 

 

This is clearly graft - but it seems all has worked in favour of the Op, albeit at a cost, but perhaps at less cost than he may initially have encountered by doing everything 100% above board and border hopping. 

[Tanoshi]

10 hours ago, Neeranam said:

You can do it by Facebook or there is an email I think it is [email protected]

https://www.facebook.com/KornGoThailand

https://www.facebook.com/teamkornENG

There is also an anti corruption Government hotline number, 1205.

[jackdd]

17 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

As documented before on the forum, if you apply for the Non O as part of a 'conversion' from a VE/TV entry to an extension you must apply at the same IO as it's a two step process.

Documented where? I've only seen some reports of people where the IO tried to extort money by making up some random rules, as in this topic here.

 

17 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The same financial proof that is accepted and approved at regional level for the Non O, is also used for the annual extension application.

So when applying for the extension at the same IO where i got the visa i don't have to provide any additional documents, just the TM7 form?

 

20 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Another example is an extension based on marriage, which is a two step process.

You apply at your local office and if accepted, they send it to the regional office for final approval and you receive a 30 day under consideration stamp. You cannot apply for the extension in one Province then move to another Province expecting the new IO to issue the stamp after approval in a different Province even if you submitted a new TM30 to officially change your address.

This is a completely different matter, it has nothing to do with moving between provinces between getting the visa and applying for a one year extension.

[473geo]

Here they are, the supposedly monied up expats, the self professed backbone of the Thai economy, that should be given proper consideration, complaining about the offer of a cheap work around

 

Meanwhile on another thread a Russian lady is offering the value of 5 years 'agents fees' for the return of a cat!!!

 

You are out of touch with reality guys!!

[Tanoshi]

26 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I have seen this reported here on the forum.  But it does seem to be yet another so-called "policy" which is not documented anywhere or based on any law/regulation, and which used strictly to generate agent-money. 

 

12 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Documented where? I've only seen some reports of people where the IO tried to extort money by making up some random rules, as in this topic here.

Go to your local IO and ask to see the Ministerial regulations Immigration follow internally.

It's a large thick book.

Somehow I don't think either of you will.

 

It's only by not following the procedures and submitting the correct documents you open yourself up to corruption options. 

[473geo]

4 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

It's only by not following the procedures and submitting the correct documents you open yourself up to corruption options. 

You open yourself up to an additional charge to provide a solution for lack of knowledge and incompetence, not to mention compensation for the bellicose attitude that often accompanies such!!

[Eibot]

18 hours ago, Jlop said:

Where might I be able to complain about this to some effect?

Hahahahaha

[JackThompson]

6 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Go to your local IO and ask to see the Ministerial regulations Immigration follow internally.

It's a large thick book.

Somehow I don't think either of you will.

There is this thing called "The Internet" - easy to publish whatever documents for everyone to see. 
 

6 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

It's only by not following the procedures and submitting the correct documents you open yourself up to corruption options. 

Procedures we don't know about, because they are not published?  And also variable - change even between application-attempts at the same office with the same IO?  

That must be a very special book - it "self updates"  based on applicants finding out about and preparing for items in it (when they are reported here).

How many baht in coins will my IO have in his pocket tomorrow at 1 PM?  If you guess wrong - go to an agent.

[trucking]

On 9/17/2020 at 2:32 AM, Phillip9 said:

There is an anti corruption office, but they don't take complaints unless you give them a bribe.

 

Manys the true word said in jest.

[Eibot]

16 hours ago, Jlop said:

Are you saying there's no reason to complain about a government official demanding extra money to do his job? Regardless of whether I agreed to pay it in the end?

Yes, hence you gave into his demand. 

 

Obviously....

[AlfHuy]

16 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

The fact is you did not at any point clearly state what the issue was (I think 3 different members asked).

Just something vague that you would need to go to another office some distance away.

Nor indicate how you paid the io and how much. It's like a confusing movie.

I like movies with happy endings.

[Bender Rodriguez]

22 hours ago, Phillip9 said:

This isn't one rogue officer like you are probably thinking.  Everyone in immigration knows about this and approves of it, right up to the highest level.  The extra fees they collect this way are likely shared among the whole department.  It won't help to make a complaint.

probably the top only and hence while people pay a lot to get a higher position, bigger share in the cookie jar

[jackdd]

4 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Go to your local IO and ask to see the Ministerial regulations Immigration follow internally.

It's a large thick book.

Somehow I don't think either of you will.

Next week i have to visit my IO anyway, i will ask about it, but most likely the answer will be that such a rule doesn't exist.

You could go to your local IO and take a picture of this rule in this book, if it exists. Somehow i don't think you will.

[JusticeGB]

22 hours ago, Jlop said:

Where might I be able to complain about this to some effect?

Edited 22 hours ago by Jlop
Expansion of post

I would strongly recommend that you don't make any official complaint if you want to stay in Thailand. Your local Immigration Office will easily find out who made the complaint and when you next try to do anything at that office you will find that they won't do anything for you and you will be first in line for deportation. 

[edwardandtubs]

1 hour ago, JusticeGB said:

I would strongly recommend that you don't make any official complaint if you want to stay in Thailand. Your local Immigration Office will easily find out who made the complaint and when you next try to do anything at that office you will find that they won't do anything for you and you will be first in line for deportation. 

I don't see any evidence that would be at all likely to happen. It's just supposition on your part. If it had ever happened before the story would be all over this forum and social media. I would advise the OP to make the complaint if he feels that strongly about it but don't expect anything either positive or negative to happen as a result.

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

Next week i have to visit my IO anyway, i will ask about it, but most likely the answer will be that such a rule doesn't exist.

You could go to your local IO and take a picture of this rule in this book, if it exists. Somehow i don't think you will.

The rule that you need to apply at the SAME IO for the subsequent 1-year extension where you applied for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa DOES exist.

I have come across reports of people that were unaware of this, and that had moved to a different province and where their new IO was not able to handle their application for the 1-year extension.  And that new IO was not trying to extort a bribe for a fake reason, but actually went out of their way to explain the applicant that he needed to temporary relocate again to the province where he applied for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa in order to get that first 1-year extension of stay to be handled there.

[Jackson B]

Got my first in-country non-O today. I was expecting some kind of "additional complication" that could be solved with an additional fee, because I have heard many such stories as OP's. But I was mildly surprised nothing untoward happened. All by the book, no agent, no fees. 

 

I was also told by IO that I should apply for the extension at the same office, otherwise if I move, I should apply to change my local IO. These people have a form for every occasion.

[Peter Denis]

9 minutes ago, Jackson B said:

...

I was also told by IO that I should apply for the extension at the same office, otherwise if I move, I should apply to change my local IO. These people have a form for every occasion.

Interesting that your IO said that you could apply at a different IO for the 1-year extension, but that you need to officially relocate for doing that. 

That's contradictory with my post #86, just above yours.

Oh well, inconsistency is the rule...

[FlyingThai]

23 hours ago, fondue zoo said:

I remember my first time..  they were surprisingly gentle ????

 

I first knew something was funky when I saw an agent start wheeling in box after box of gift oranges on a trolley. No problem, no id, just walked straight into the officers area.

Only 5 minutes before he had delivered a wad of passports and papers..  juicing the wheels

You misunderstood. That's basically the office delivery version of the fruit cart on the street. ????

[MyTHaiMyKe]

The lady immigration officer in room 8 Pattaya immigration is the worst! She writes 16,000 on a piece of paper and slides it across her desk! I say what is this, she says you want visa, give me 16,000 and you get visa, no bank deposit, no nothing, you pay and come back in 2 days, everything is taken care of! I slide it right back to her and she says, I make much problems for you to get visa! She then starts telling me I had to go to bangkok and get my papers notarized, then this, then that! I am leaving bye, bye glad to go!

Edited September 18, 2020 by MyTHaiMyKe