Renewing expired Thailand Elite membership

[Mike Teavee]

22 minutes ago, Jon1 said:

You don't extend the visa itself you extend the permission to stay. Even with 20-year Elite membership you just get 5-year visas affixed to your passport and you can get a new one attached at the immigration. They are just saying that they can't attach a new 5-year visa to your passport inside Thailand if your Elite membership has expired before even after you become a member again. For me this doesn't make sense. Also like written here before, they used to be able to do this just last month.

No, you’re getting confused, the topic is about getting a new TE Visa after the old one has expired 

 

in the example you gave of getting a new 5 year Visa on the 20 Year membership the “Visa” itself hadn’t expired.

 

Need to separate the Visa element from the Permission to Stay... With TE you are trying to renew an expired Visa, which they’re saying immigration is telling them cannot be done in-country, with other Visas you are converting which Immigration allows you to do for any Visa type (including Visa Exempt) in-country as long as you have at least 15 days remaining on your PTS

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Mike Teavee

[Jon1]

58 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

No, you’re getting confused, the topic is about getting a new TE Visa after the old one has expired 

 

in the example you gave of getting a new 5 year Visa on the 20 Year membership the “Visa” itself hadn’t expired.

 

Need to separate the Visa element from the Permission to Stay... With TE you are trying to renew an expired Visa, which they’re saying immigration is telling them cannot be done in-country, with other Visas you are converting which Immigration allows you to do for any Visa type (including Visa Exempt) in-country as long as you have at least 15 days remaining on your PTS

 

Well originally when I received the TE visa at Bangkok immigration I only had an expired ED visa. So with the expired ED visa you can receive TE visa in-country but with expired TE visa you can't.

[krey]

3 hours ago, thinktoomuch said:

 

Why did you buy the re-entry permit on the way out? Weren't you trying to return and get an extra one year stamp?

 

Perhaps the re-entry permit caused some confusion because that just stops the permission to stay that you already have from being automatically cancelled when you leave the country.

 

It's after you retuned and got your sixth year on the five year visa that you'd need the re-entry permit if you left again.

 

Is the sequence of events you posted correct or did I miss / misunderstand something?

 

ah yes that did sound confusing it has been a while since I did it, I did a post about it in the past

1. I left Thailand in October of 2019 and came back at that point I got the 1 year stamp that brought me to Oct 2020, at that time I was happy with that as I was only planning on staying to the summer of 2020

2. My Thai Elite expired in February of 2020

3. I had one side saying that when the Thai Elite expires (the visa) then I would be on overstay even if I had a permission to stay stamp.  Thai Elite said this, visa agencies said this, some members in forums said this and even some immigration officers said it at the local office in chiang mai.  However, many people were doing it with no problems and some forum members said it was okay etc

4. So I left the day before my visa expired to basically test it out, I asked immigration in Chiang Mai airport if I leave now and return after my Thai Elite visa expires will my permission of stay to Oct 2020 still be vaild, they said it would and I would need a re entry permit because I was coming in on an expired Thai Elite,

5. So basically I was testing out if the permission of stay would work even with a Expired Visa and it turned out it did work, my back up plan was to get a on arrival tourist visa and extend it a couple of times, but did not have to do that.  Then covid hit and cancelled my flights etc and decided it was safer to stay here longer, and it got to a point where I decided I would like to stay another year but Problem now is changing over to a new visa inside the country I am still considered Thai Elite since it was my last valid visa so I got to follow the rules of that particular visa, so it was either buying another one, or leaving the country and coming back and getting a different type, which was and I believe still not possible.

[Mike Teavee]

7 hours ago, Jon1 said:

Well originally when I received the TE visa at Bangkok immigration I only had an expired ED visa. So with the expired ED visa you can receive TE visa in-country but with expired TE visa you can't.

But the difference is you converted to a TE Visa from your ED Visa which is allowed in-country as long as your permission to stay has the minimum number of days remaining depending on the Visa you’re converting to (e.g. Non-O it’s 15 days, might be less for TE)

 

The only time immigration issue Visas is for conversions, MFA issue all New (I.e non-converted) Visas outside of Thailand.

 

Being on a now-expired TE Visa you cannot:

   - Renew, as the Visa has expired

   - Extend, as the Visa has expired 

   - Convert, as you’re already on one

... So the only option available to you if you want a TE is to get a new one for which you have to leave & come back in.

You would think/hope that they’d bend the rules a little given current circumstances but it could be that it would take a change to immigration law to allow immigration to issue a new Visa without it being the result of a conversion.

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Mike Teavee

[huberthammer]

On that topic, does anybody know what the process with TE is to get a renewal of Permission to stay? My TE Visa stamp still runs another 2 years. However, for the first time ever I will approach 1 year without having left the country. Can I go to Samui Immigration and they just give me a new 1 year stamp or will I have to deal with the Thai Elite bureaucrats and potentially fly to BKK to get this done ?  TIA

[Mike Teavee]

18 minutes ago, huberthammer said:

On that topic, does anybody know what the process with TE is to get a renewal of Permission to stay? My TE Visa stamp still runs another 2 years. However, for the first time ever I will approach 1 year without having left the country. Can I go to Samui Immigration and they just give me a new 1 year stamp or will I have to deal with the Thai Elite bureaucrats and potentially fly to BKK to get this done ?  TIA

Contact TE to see if they can help you extend in Samui & what documents you’ll need but you certainly won’t have to go to Bangkok to do it, you’ll extend at your local Immigration Office.

[ubonjoe]

59 minutes ago, huberthammer said:

On that topic, does anybody know what the process with TE is to get a renewal of Permission to stay? My TE Visa stamp still runs another 2 years. However, for the first time ever I will approach 1 year without having left the country. Can I go to Samui Immigration and they just give me a new 1 year stamp or will I have to deal with the Thai Elite bureaucrats and potentially fly to BKK to get this done ?  TIA

It can be done at any immigration office.

You may need a letter from Thailand Elite requesting it.

Besides the letter you only need copies of your passport photo page, visa sticker, last entry stamp and TM6 departure card. A completed TM7 form with a 4 X 6 cm photo attached and 1900 bayt for the fee.

Info here website https://www.thailandelite.com/faqs?locate=en&popup=false  Uncer this question. 

Ignore the line about making and appointment that is only for Bangkok.

[YaiJung]

I don't know how any of you with the five yr membership can be surprised at Thai Elite's response.  You have received multiple emails explaining and warning you that any permission to stay after your membership has expired will be invalid.  You also would have received multiple emails offering renewal at discounted rates, but you chose to attempt to weasel another yr for free out of your visa. 

 

When you sign up for thailand elite you are signing up to play by the rules of people in power who make the rules.  They override anything done by low level immigration staff.  Now you have annoyed them and are on their <deleted>list. 

 

My PE visa expired in Nov 2019, so I know all about the emails and warnings. 

 

[Mike Teavee]

4 minutes ago, YaiJung said:

You also would have received multiple emails offering renewal at discounted rates,

As a matter of interest, what were the discounts offered & did they increase closer to renewal time? 

[YaiJung]

5 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

As a matter of interest, what were the discounts offered & did they increase closer to renewal time? 

The renewal emails started about 9 months before the visa expired.  The discounts were not huge...only 3%. Promotion emails started about 6 months before expiration, with no increase closer to renewal. 

[simon43]

I had an Elite 5 year visa that expired in September 2018.  I did a visa run 2 weeks before it expired and was granted a 1-year visa stamp when I re-entered the country at Nong Khai.  However, I rightly guessed that the Thais were no longer interested in "whitey's money" and I made arrangements to leave Thailand, after having lived there for 18 years.  I now live happily in Luang Prabang (Laos), and have just renewed my annual business visa. No hassles, no xenophobia, just friendly people ????

[CorpusChristie]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

I had an Elite 5 year visa that expired in September 2018.  I did a visa run 2 weeks before it expired and was granted a 1-year visa stamp when I re-entered the country at Nong Khai.  However, I rightly guessed that the Thais were no longer interested in "whitey's money" and I made arrangements to leave Thailand, after having lived there for 18 years.  I now live happily in Luang Prabang (Laos), and have just renewed my annual business visa. No hassles, no xenophobia, just friendly people ????

Didnt you previously spend five years working in Burma just prior and also a few years working in Cambodia whilst you had your Thai elite visa  ?

  Havent you been earning money in Asia, rather than spending foreign currency ?

[simon43]

1 minute ago, CorpusChristie said:

Didnt you previously spend five years working in Burma just prior and also a few years working in Cambodia whilst you had your Thai elite visa  ?

  Havent you been earning money in Asia, rather than spending foreign currency ?

Hi, I've never worked/lived in Cambodia. I had an Elite visa to make it easy for me to come and go from my work in Myanmar, (I value my privacy and the Elite visa suited me just fine when I stayed in Thailand.  Not sure about your comment re foreign currency.  Burmese kyat is foreign currency if you live in Thailand ????

[CorpusChristie]

3 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Hi, I've never worked/lived in Cambodia. I had an Elite visa to make it easy for me to come and go from my work in Myanmar, (I value my privacy and the Elite visa suited me just fine when I stayed in Thailand.  Not sure about your comment re foreign currency.  Burmese kyat is foreign currency if you live in Thailand ????

Where was that school that you were advising on the buildings construction to work in the school, but left before the buildings completion ? 

[simon43]

2 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Where was that school that you were advising on the buildings construction to work in the school, but left before the buildings completion ? 

That was in Luang Prabang, where I now live ????.  I taught in Yangon, then was 'headhunted' to manage the school build in Laos, then returned to Myanmar after the new campus opened.  During those years, I only stayed briefly in Thailand using my Elite visa.

 

Edit:  I left a few days before the new campus opened because the school owner had failed to listen to my advice about sorting out a safe entrance road for students and parents!

Edited September 20, 2020 by simon43

[Jon1]

9 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

But the difference is you converted to a TE Visa from your ED Visa which is allowed in-country as long as your permission to stay has the minimum number of days remaining depending on the Visa you’re converting to (e.g. Non-O it’s 15 days, might be less for TE)

 

The only time immigration issue Visas is for conversions, MFA issue all New (I.e non-converted) Visas outside of Thailand.

 

Being on a now-expired TE Visa you cannot:

   - Renew, as the Visa has expired

   - Extend, as the Visa has expired 

   - Convert, as you’re already on one

... So the only option available to you if you want a TE is to get a new one for which you have to leave & come back in.

You would think/hope that they’d bend the rules a little given current circumstances but it could be that it would take a change to immigration law to allow immigration to issue a new Visa without it being the result of a conversion.

 

That's a good point and you're right that this might be their reasoning for not affixing the visa inside Thailand.

 

It's just that previously this wasn't a problem. There are multiple reports on Thaivisa that people were able to affix the visa inside Thailand with an expired membership and the latest one was from last month from Krey. Thailand Elite told me that this is a recent change for them. It is just crazy to start enforcing this now with the covid situation when you're not able to travel easily and even get back in the country.

[Jon1]

5 hours ago, YaiJung said:

I don't know how any of you with the five yr membership can be surprised at Thai Elite's response.  You have received multiple emails explaining and warning you that any permission to stay after your membership has expired will be invalid.  You also would have received multiple emails offering renewal at discounted rates, but you chose to attempt to weasel another yr for free out of your visa. 

 

When you sign up for thailand elite you are signing up to play by the rules of people in power who make the rules.  They override anything done by low level immigration staff.  Now you have annoyed them and are on their <deleted>list. 

 

My PE visa expired in Nov 2019, so I know all about the emails and warnings. 

 

Well the permission to stay is valid unlike they say and when they sold the visa in the beginning even Thailand Elite themselves told that you can get a one year permission to stay stamp near the visa expiration. So I don't know how is this any "weaseling" from the people who bought the membership with certain conditions in the beginning and then 5 years later TE changed their interpretation?

 

Probably not everyone saw that the country would be closed for the whole year in the beginning of the year. Also you would assume that paying TE 1-million THB would help. But I can say that I was honestly surprised to find out that they changed their policy of affixing visas inside Thailand for expired memberships during the covid situation.

[JackThompson]

52 minutes ago, Jon1 said:

Well the permission to stay is valid unlike they say and when they sold the visa in the beginning even Thailand Elite themselves told that you can get a one year permission to stay stamp near the visa expiration. So I don't know how is this any "weaseling" from the people who bought the membership with certain conditions in the beginning and then 5 years later TE changed their interpretation?

I remember the early sales-pitch with the "extra year" as well. 

They are the ones doing the "weaseling" - and not surprising, given they are taking that money out of the Thai economy, in exchange for "letting you" stay here to spend money in Thailand.  What a (explitive) system - not surprised at all they would play their game this way. 

[YaiJung]

2 hours ago, Jon1 said:

Well the permission to stay is valid unlike they say and when they sold the visa in the beginning even Thailand Elite themselves told that you can get a one year permission to stay stamp near the visa expiration.

 

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

I remember the early sales-pitch with the "extra year" as well. 

Really?  I don't remember anything from thailand elite advertising 6 yrs for 500k baht.  There was indeed discussion here on thaivisa regarding the situation, mostly speculation and wishful thinking.  Some people might have been told they can get an extra year, but I suspect that was from some agent and not from thailand elite themselves. 

 

What I do remember, were the emails spelling it out in no uncertain terms...any permission to stay stamp that was "valid" for after the membership has expired is in fact invalid and the holder will be on overstay.  Seems they didn't think it out too well when they designed the program.  They might be letting you stay an extra year, but don't expect them to be happy about it and like I said in my other reply, you are likely now on their <deleted>list. 

 

The deal is - 5 yrs, not 6, for 500k.  Like it or not, from their point of view, if you try to turn 5 into 6, you are trying to get one over on them and don't expect them to roll out the red carpet for you. 

 

I too, would have liked to get the extra year, but could see the writing on the wall and made other arrangements rather than risk overstay. 

[Seik]

What if Op was on his fifth year and his membership was still valid though? Could he have gotten a renewal in-country then?

[BritTim]

5 minutes ago, Seik said:

What if Op was on his fifth year and his membership was still valid though? Could he have gotten a renewal in-country then?

I think I can remember people doing that.

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, BritTim said:

I think I can remember people doing that.

Yes, I recall someone doing that....interestingly one immigration officer felt the extension should only run until the PE Visa Expired (that year), while another felt a one year Extension was allowed.

[Jon1]

On 9/20/2020 at 6:10 AM, Mike Teavee said:

The only time immigration issue Visas is for conversions, MFA issue all New (I.e non-converted) Visas outside of Thailand.

 

Being on a now-expired TE Visa you cannot:

   - Renew, as the Visa has expired

   - Extend, as the Visa has expired 

   - Convert, as you’re already on one

Was thinking about this possible immigration reasoning again.

 

Isn't it the case anyway that immigration doesn't renew any kind of visas inside Thailand?

Also for the extension, isn't the extension always for the permission to stay, not for the actual visa, and you should be able to extend permission of stay even after the visa has expired?

 

I'm thinking if it would be possible to just get the TE permission to stay extended after the TE membership is approved. There shouldn't be any rule requiring a visa that's not expired on your passport to get an extension of stay? So in this way it wouldn't be a problem about the requirement to get the visa affixed at the airport. It would be possible to just stay on the permission of stay extension and get the visa to passport later when it's possible to travel again.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Jon1

[FlyingThai]

19 hours ago, Seik said:

What if Op was on his fifth year and his membership was still valid though? Could he have gotten a renewal in-country then?

Yes as long as it's not expired that's possible.

[Mike Teavee]

42 minutes ago, Jon1 said:

Was thinking about this possible immigration reasoning again.

 

Isn't it the case anyway that immigration doesn't renew any kind of visas inside Thailand?

Also for the extension, isn't the extension always for the permission to stay, not for the actual visa, and you should be able to extend permission of stay even after the visa has expired?

 

I'm thinking if it would be possible to just get the TE permission to stay extended after the TE membership is approved. There shouldn't be any rule requiring a visa that's not expired on your passport to get an extension of stay? So in this way it wouldn't be a problem about the requirement to get the visa affixed at the airport. It would be possible to just stay on the permission of stay extension and get the visa to passport later when it's possible to travel again.

I believe the TE is only extendible for the lifetime of the Visa so if you had say 6 months remaining & went to do an extension, by rights immigration should only extend you for 6 months (until the end of the Visa) however some will do 12 month extensions but none after the Visa in your passport has expired (hence needing a new one, if you were on the 20 year Visa this would be done a month or so before the 5 year expires) 

 

Same is true of entering at borders, the IO should only stamp you in until the end of the Visa or 12 months whichever comes first, but I’ve never seen a report of anybody get less than 12 months (unless their passport had less than 12 months remaining then any visa/extension only gets you to the end of your passport).

 

[redpill17]

I think people are confusing visas and Immigration stamps/extensions.

 

Visa = permission to entry

Stamp = permission to stay

 

So if Immigration stamped you for 1 year, you can legally stay during this period, hence 6th year is possible. Obviously, Thailand Elite isn't happy when someone is getting extra time for free, but they have no power to void the entry stamp. That's my understanding.

 

For example, tourist visa is valid for ~90 days, but you can enter on the last day and still be eligible to stay for 60 days and then extend it for 30 more, even though visa would be expired. Why would the rules be different for Elite visa, unless there's special law regulating it? (which I'm not aware of) 

 

I don't know much about Non-Imm visas, so i'm curious: if someone gets a 1-year marriage extension, then gets divorced, can they still stay until stamp runs out?

[holeinone]

So what are the options in case

1) the PE visa (visa sticker) and TE membership have already expired -and-

2) the permission stamp is still valid (6th year) -and-

3) not eligible for marriage/retirement visa ?

 

As mentioned in this thread, Elite does not want to affix a new sticker (as the membership has expired), but leaving and returning back is not possible at the moment.

 

Is it possible to get a 30 or 60-day extension (before the permission-to-stay has expired) ?

Is it possible to convert to another visa type (ED / volunteer / etc.) inside Thailand ?

Edited September 21, 2020 by holeinone

[robblok]

On 9/19/2020 at 11:26 AM, richard_smith237 said:

I have been a member of Thailand Elite for 14 years (Life Long Membership : 1 Million Baht in those days)

I have the 5 year S.E. visa attached in my passport (I have to apply for a 1900B extension every 90 days) and got unlimited privileges (Golf, Massage, Airport Transfers etc).

 

All has been fine providing I do not contact Thailand Elite for any Visa advice - their information has been incorrect too many times. 

 

------

 

1) I travelled a lot and actually carried out my first 90 day report and extension about 5 years ago. Thailand Elite took my passport and told me they’d take care of it all. Then called me up 2 days later and told me they couldn’t I had to do the extension of stay myself. They left it until the last day to tell me and wouldn’t return my passport until the following day because it was the end of their ‘office hours’ that day. I was furious, their failure to provide me with the correct information pushed me onto an ‘overstay’ for one day (I was 1 day late for the extension of stay). 

 

2) Applying to return to Thailand in June: I applied for the Certificate of Entry (based on Marriage, with marriage certificate and also submitted my Thai Elite Visa) to the Thai Embassy UK. I double checked with Thai Elite that I could enter Thailand on my Elite Visa - the response was a clear: If I have been Given the Certificate of Entry I can enter Thailand with my Elite Visa. 

This was wrong and I found out that I couldn’t re-enter Thailand at 11pm on a Saturday night (my repatriation flight to Thailand was on Sunday evening). 

Fortunately the Thai Embassy gave me a Non-Immigrant Type O Visa at very short notice on the Sunday (they had also made a mistake and were helpful rectifying it).

The flawed advice from Thai Elite very nearly compromised my re-entry to Thailand. They didn’t reply to two letters of complaint. 

 

3) I’m currently in Thailand on a Non-Immigrant Type O and will have to apply for an Extension of Stay (with >400k in the bank and all other paper work). Thai Elite tell me I am unable to make the switch from my Non-Immigrant Type O (single Entry) Visa to my Thai Elite Visa without leaving the country. 

 

This is moronic !!! Especially if as some people have mentioned they can switch from a Tourist Visa to Thai Elite Visa without having to leave. 

 

 

 

 

When I wanted elite, i switched from marriage. I had to leave the country to invalidate the marriage visa. It could not be done in country.

 

I  too am now over the time Thai elite gave me as it ends october while i can stay to december. However Thai elite confirmed me that I got an other 6 months extra. (still means ill have to extend later on in december). 

 

Not sure why the OP does not have this half year.. or his time difference was even bigger.

[Jon1]

1 hour ago, redpill17 said:

I think people are confusing visas and Immigration stamps/extensions.

 

Visa = permission to entry

Stamp = permission to stay

 

So if Immigration stamped you for 1 year, you can legally stay during this period, hence 6th year is possible. Obviously, Thailand Elite isn't happy when someone is getting extra time for free, but they have no power to void the entry stamp. That's my understanding.

 

For example, tourist visa is valid for ~90 days, but you can enter on the last day and still be eligible to stay for 60 days and then extend it for 30 more, even though visa would be expired. Why would the rules be different for Elite visa, unless there's special law regulating it? (which I'm not aware of) 

 

I don't know much about Non-Imm visas, so i'm curious: if someone gets a 1-year marriage extension, then gets divorced, can they still stay until stamp runs out?

This is exactly what I'm thinking about. If I buy a new membership and the membership is active, shouldn't I be able to extend the permission to stay even though TE visa is expired?

 

If someone has knowledge if there is some special law regulating TE visas and especially that the visa itself, not only the membership has to be valid for the period of extension, would be very interested to know.

 

I think this is something I'll try to find out with the immigration and TE office if I'm still going to try to stay in Thailand with TE visa at this time.

[Jon1]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Not sure why the OP does not have this half year.. or his time difference was even bigger.

My membership expired on February.