Is anyone hearing anything?

[BritTim]

Immigration was an important player in the discussions in July over the amnesty, and had the responsibility of transmitting the decision to the foreigner community. I believe the communication has been clear.

 

I predicted starting early July that a further easy means of staying in Thailand for longer would be forthcoming (if not an amnesty extension, at least an automatic extension on demand). That was based on evidence of Immigration making arrangements that suggested it, and lots of leaks on the ongoing discussions at the time.

 

Once the July decision was made, I gave my opinion that the September 26 date seemed firm, based on various evidence. I did not expect the cabinet to discuss the matter again, though they can (of course) always choose to change their minds.

 

Immigration communicated the cabinet decision, giving people over two months to make suitable arrangements. It is predictable that some do not like what they are being told, and will ignore it right up to the end. Yes, the result is going to be chaos to some unknown degree, to add to the chaos already being experienced due to Covid-19.

 

The cabinet can always decide to discuss a possible new amnesty, not just up until September 26, but even after September 26. They are unlikely to do so, but those who dislike the current reality can cling to that hope if they like.

 

Most important people: arguments like "the sensible decision would be to allow foreigners already here to stay indefinitely" are logical, but irrelevant. The authorities are not thinking that way. As is usual in almost every country at almost all times, there is an element of anti foreigner feeling that consciously and unconsciously enters into decision making. As I can tell reading comments on this board, anti foreigner feeling is strong among most members here. They just hate different foreigners to those the Thais hate. The reasons given for rationalising that hate are different, but the tribal instincts are the same.

[jacko45k]

Extensions are possible, amnesty not. So an agent very confidently told us at a recent talk.

[tonray]

3 minutes ago, BritTim said:

As I can tell reading comments on this board, anti foreigner feeling is strong among most members here. They just hate different foreigners to those the Thais hate. The reasons given for rationalising that hate are different, but the tribal instincts are the same.

It's not being tribal at all. Time and time again, foreigners who could not pay their way or otherwise attempted to circumvent the system have brought stricter regulations and requirements upon all of us. Extra insurance, have to keep 800k for 3 months after and 400k all year, etc etc. Bad apples ruining it for everyone

[greggraham]

20 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Extensions are possible, amnesty not. So an agent very confidently told us at a recent talk.

Extensions for everybody, or just those with letters etc (as it currently is) ? 

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, greggraham said:

Extensions for everybody, or just those with letters etc (as it currently is) ? 

Medical, volunteer are other options...

[from the home of CC]

42 minutes ago, tonray said:

It's not being tribal at all. Time and time again, foreigners who could not pay their way or otherwise attempted to circumvent the system have brought stricter regulations and requirements upon all of us. Extra insurance, have to keep 800k for 3 months after and 400k all year, etc etc. Bad apples ruining it for everyone

I can't think of a single country who would of allowed this amnesty for this length of time of stay with invalid visas. And now we have those gaming the medical extension through an 'agent'. In many countries without a valid visa you would be put into detention till deportation. Most real 'tourists' would of never been stayed on for there were options (for I had friends use them) to leave. Thailand I believe learned a few things through this and trusting foreigners is not one of them.. 

[padthaininja]

2 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

I can't think of a single country who would of allowed this amnesty for this length of time of stay with invalid visas. And now we have those gaming the medical extension through an 'agent'. In many countries without a valid visa you would be put into detention till deportation. Most real 'tourists' would of never been stayed on for there were options (for I had friends use them) to leave. Thailand I believe learned a few things through this and trusting foreigners is not one of them.. 

But then we have Vietnam who's been letting foreigners extend 1-3 months by simply paying for it. Why hasn't Thailand implemented something similar?

[natway09]

I think Immigration want to purge all the amnesty holders now so no extension as most of your monies now have been left here anyway 

[bjaz]

32 minutes ago, padthaininja said:

But then we have Vietnam who's been letting foreigners extend 1-3 months by simply paying for it. Why hasn't Thailand implemented something similar?

Indonesia as well - and they also allowed an in-country (onshore) switch from kitas (stay/work permit) to social b211 visa, which is a general "social"visa, granted for tourism or social reasons.
In Thailand non-B holders have little options to extend their stay here (basically volunteer or medical, which is grey area, since these visas have specific purposes, that a social visa does not)

Both tourists and other long stay visa holders were allowed to hop onto this Indonesian social visa, specifically to extend their stay in Indonesia due to the unprecendented circumstances - and not because people are stranded, as there are also daily flights out of Jakarta, probably more than out of Bangkok.
It can be extended up to 6 months (60 days + four 30 days extensions) under normal circumstances, but now indefinitely, "until the emergency is over". You have to pay for extensions, equivalent of a few thousand THB.

Indonesian immigration, despite the usual confusion, was and still is quite proactive in handling this new visa situation compared to Thailand...

Indonesia's also allowing spouses and families back in for instance, under a special "family reunification" entry permit see:

https://indonesiaexpat.biz/featured/family-unification-visa-available-for-mixed-marriage-couples/

And elsewhere in ASEAN, Malaysia extended emergency stay permits for foreigners to December 31 if I'm not mistaken.

But yeah, different culture....

Edited September 19, 2020 by bjaz

[leeedwards]

If we haven’t used the 60 day extension can we still do so next week?

[Guderian]

I was speaking to a Thai agent yesterday. She said it's not impossible that the amnesty will be extended, but she doesn't think it's likely. She's been urging all her clients to sort out their situation by yesterday, but many of them still seem to think the amnesty will be extended, while others think getting a valid visa can be done the day before the amnesty officially ends. She's been trying to explain to them that the closer they leave it to the amnesty end-date, the more expensive it's going to be to get a valid visa, but the "stranded tourist" brigade refuse to listen. I've got no sympathy now, there's been more than enough warning to get themselves sorted out, if they wind up having to pay north of 100K Baht for a visa, or even end up in the IDC, then it serves them right.

[Yahem]

28 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

I can't think of a single country who would of allowed this amnesty for this length of time of stay with invalid visas. And now we have those gaming the medical extension through an 'agent'. In many countries without a valid visa you would be put into detention till deportation. Most real 'tourists' would of never been stayed on for there were options (for I had friends use them) to leave. Thailand I believe learned a few things through this and trusting foreigners is not one of them.. 

so we should trust all Thai ?

the COVID pandemic showed people’s true colours that’s for sure.

 

other countries also don’t have the “agent” route so it’s kinda strange to accept one part of the “corruption “ and then speak bad about the other one kind of hypocritical.

 

the people stuck here did not ask for amnesty they asked for a way to extend a valid visa inside the country people would gladly pay de 2000tbh for 90 days visa like the “special” tourist visa they issued.

 

 

They will announce an “amnesty” last minute for the people that are really stuck , if they announce it weeks ahead people won’t even try to get out or get another type of visa .

 

Now they sold “official” visas and extensions if people don’t have them yet or don’t have appointments for it next week then they won’t make them that’s clear imo.

 

Are they going to jail all overstays ? Or pay for all the return flights and book them for those people?

they are busy with the riots I don’t think they have time to go fight both overstayers and the student riots .

 

On a side note currently a tropical storm coming to Thailand means more flights cancelled again?

 

 

[jacko45k]

31 minutes ago, padthaininja said:

But then we have Vietnam who's been letting foreigners extend 1-3 months by simply paying for it. Why hasn't Thailand implemented something similar?

Why have Vietnam chosen to do something different?

[Yahem]

3 minutes ago, Guderian said:

I was speaking to a Thai agent yesterday. She said it's not impossible that the amnesty will be extended, but she doesn't think it's likely. She's been urging all her clients to sort out their situation by yesterday, but many of them still seem to think the amnesty will be extended, while others think getting a valid visa can be done the day before the amnesty officially ends. She's been trying to explain to them that the closer they leave it to the amnesty end-date, the more expensive it's going to be to get a valid visa, but the "stranded tourist" brigade refuse to listen. I've got no sympathy now, there's been more than enough warning to get themselves sorted out, if they wind up having to pay north of 100K Baht for a visa, or even end up in the IDC, then it serves them right.

So you spoke to someone that makes a living selling visas ? Sounds like a great person to ask if there will be a “free”extension???? 

 

what benefit does it have to a visa agent to tell people they won’t need the agents service ?

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

36 minutes ago, padthaininja said:

But then we have Vietnam who's been letting foreigners extend 1-3 months by simply paying for it. Why hasn't Thailand implemented something similar?

Why should they follow suit, just because another country does.  The Thais have always done things there way and it has never been logical.

[bjaz]

3 minutes ago, Yahem said:

 

other countries also don’t have the “agent” route so it’s kinda strange to accept one part of the “corruption “ and then speak bad about the other one kind of hypocritical.

 

Indonesia certainly has agents, and some people certainly did get ripped off, but you do not need to go through an agent to do a conversion from tourist or kitas (stay work permit) to the long stay B211 social visa that I was mentioning above, since the temporary change in regulations was officially announced by immigration - it wasn't grey area or anything, just a procedure and payment.

There was some confusion so Indonesian immigration actually extended the deadline to apply for a social visa conversion by a month.

[Phillip9]

52 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

I can't think of a single country who would of allowed this amnesty for this length of time of stay with invalid visas.

You didn't think very hard if you couldn't remember neighboring Malaysia which has on going visa amnesty until at least the end of december.

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/malaysia-closed-to-tourists-until-december-77174.php

[Jackcwba]

22 minutes ago, Guderian said:

I was speaking to a Thai agent yesterday. She said it's not impossible that the amnesty will be extended, but she doesn't think it's likely. She's been urging all her clients to sort out their situation by yesterday, but many of them still seem to think the amnesty will be extended, while others think getting a valid visa can be done the day before the amnesty officially ends. She's been trying to explain to them that the closer they leave it to the amnesty end-date, the more expensive it's going to be to get a valid visa, but the "stranded tourist" brigade refuse to listen. I've got no sympathy now, there's been more than enough warning to get themselves sorted out, if they wind up having to pay north of 100K Baht for a visa, or even end up in the IDC, then it serves them right.

Sales tactics 101, they want the money but I agree I doubt the amnesty will be extended... they spent all this time telling people to get the correct visa or leave or get a letter from your embassy... gonna be a lot of angry people if it gets extended after paying these agencies a lot of money.. 55

[bjaz]

22 minutes ago, Phillip9 said:

You didn't think very hard if you couldn't remember neighboring Malaysia which has on going visa amnesty until at least the end of december.

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/malaysia-closed-to-tourists-until-december-77174.php

And, as mentioned, Indonesia, where immigration switched from "emergency stay permits" granted to all foreigners to official amendments in immigration regulations to allow foreigners to stay in the country indefinitely ("until the emergency is over")

Tourists and people with stay/work permits (KITAS, VITAS) were allowed to hop onto a B211 "Social Visa", which is a long stay tourist/social visa with "no strings attached", ie you're not supposed to be volunteering, in education etc...
This social visa can be extended up to 6 months (60 days + four 30 days extensions) under normal circumstances, but now indefinitely, "until the emergency is over". You have to pay for the conversion then for the monthly extensions, equivalent of a few thousand THB.
Onshore conversion of KITAS work/stay permit (your equivalent of a non-B plus work permit) and were also allowed, along with other amendments (off-shore applications are still blocked for the most part)

Both tourists and long stay visa holders were allowed to hop onto this social visa specifically to extend their stay in Indonesia due to the unprecendented circumstances - not because people were considered "stranded" or similar, as there are also daily flights out of Jakarta, maybe more than out of Bangkok at the moment.

The Indonesian governement decided from the start (introduction of a "stay permit", rather than an amnesty) that they would give all foreigners an option to stay in the country in the current circumstances, a rather different approach to the matter at hands.

Beyond this, I just wish slightly more honourable options had been officially offered by immigration to non-B holders like myself, than these grey-area non-O volunteer visas, but anyway...

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by bjaz

[GeorgeCross]

23 minutes ago, Yahem said:

so we should trust all Thai ?

the COVID pandemic showed people’s true colours that’s for sure.

 

well it definately sorted those who get things done from those that need it handed to them, thats for sure

 

 

[473geo]

Time to fuel up the immigration BMW smart cars methinks

 

[from the home of CC]

33 minutes ago, Yahem said:

so we should trust all Thai ?

the COVID pandemic showed people’s true colours that’s for sure.

 

other countries also don’t have the “agent” route so it’s kinda strange to accept one part of the “corruption “ and then speak bad about the other one kind of hypocritical.

 

the people stuck here did not ask for amnesty they asked for a way to extend a valid visa inside the country people would gladly pay de 2000tbh for 90 days visa like the “special” tourist visa they issued.

 

 

They will announce an “amnesty” last minute for the people that are really stuck , if they announce it weeks ahead people won’t even try to get out or get another type of visa .

 

Now they sold “official” visas and extensions if people don’t have them yet or don’t have appointments for it next week then they won’t make them that’s clear imo.

 

Are they going to jail all overstays ? Or pay for all the return flights and book them for those people?

they are busy with the riots I don’t think they have time to go fight both overstayers and the student riots .

 

On a side note currently a tropical storm coming to Thailand means more flights cancelled again?

 

 

sense a lot of straw grasping going on..

[jessc]

OP - The answer to your question is NO. As in, no one here has heard anything.

[from the home of CC]

23 minutes ago, Phillip9 said:

You didn't think very hard if you couldn't remember neighboring Malaysia which has on going visa amnesty until at least the end of december.

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/malaysia-closed-to-tourists-until-december-77174.php

I was thinking more in line with western nations, where most of these ' tourists ' are from..

[spiekerjozef]

Yes I heard overstay is 500 baht a day.

[from the home of CC]

1 hour ago, padthaininja said:

But then we have Vietnam who's been letting foreigners extend 1-3 months by simply paying for it. Why hasn't Thailand implemented something similar?

I was referring to western nations, and I don't know of any that throw out visa regulations by simply paying for it to happen..

[Matzzon]

They have clearly stated that there will be no more extension of amnesty. Wishful dreaming is one thing, but this ain´t so hard to understand. The ones that has not a possibility to make an extension of their permission to stay or not booked a flight home yet are truly in deep s**t! However, they only have themselves to blame, for being totally blind to obvious signs.

 

About hearing anything. The only thing I can hear is the air going out of a made-up-belief-bubble.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Matzzon

[bjaz]

6 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

I was thinking more in line with western nations, where most of these ' tourists ' are from..

 

Please check, but I think quite a few EU countries gave a 6 month extension in quite a few cases, covering long stays and more (you can apply for extensions for short stays as well) - something like this:
 

Quote

 

My residence permit for France expired between 16 March and 15 June 2020. What should I do?
 

The validity of the following permits, which would have expired between 16 March and 15 June 2020, has been extended by 6 months:
● Long-stay visas,
● Residence permits,
● Temporary residence permits,
● Receipts for residence permit requests.
The validity of certificates of asylum application, which would have expired between 16 March and 15 June 2020, has been extended by 3 months.

 

Source:
https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/coming-to-france/coronavirus-advice-for-foreign-nationals-in-france/#sommaire_5

Edited September 19, 2020 by bjaz

[from the home of CC]

11 minutes ago, bjaz said:

 

Please check, but I think quite a few EU countries gave a 6 month extension in quite a few cases, covering long stays and more (you can apply for extensions for short stays as well) - something like this:
 

Source:
https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/coming-to-france/coronavirus-advice-for-foreign-nationals-in-france/#sommaire_5

you've had your 3 months plus and now it's finished..

[fondue zoo]

50 minutes ago, Yahem said:

the people stuck here did not ask for amnesty they asked for a way to extend a valid visa inside the country people would gladly pay de 2000tbh for 90 days visa like the “special” tourist visa they issued.

Agreed, almost everybody in the "cracks" would happily pay for extensions if Immigration could only get their heads around lifting the limits per visa stamp. Even if it was only a temporary measure while the covid drama continues. Coins in the coffers, and up to date information about what we're all up to under the coconut.