Ex-PM Thaksin asks Thai people if they are better off 14 years since the putsch

[Nout]

3 hours ago, KhunKenAP said:

They have barricades and tanks in Bangkok protecting key spot. BBC World News has a report blocked, that is likely on the protests. Does anyone know of any live coverage on the internet? Thai PBS is broadcasting pictures but all in Thai.

Sky news and Al Jazeera

[MRToMRT]

Much as I despise the man, he has a point. My only reservation is I despise him so much I feel he is saying it for his own potential political gain rather than the peoples.

[Seeall]

16 hours ago, impulse said:

 

And it's not as if the voters didn't know he was corrupt when they voted for him (and his sister). 

 

But at least he let some of the wealth trickle down to the masses.  Which the Elite couldn't stand.

 

The marks of a clever bussinessman?  give something...  not take it all then squeeze some more...

[Xonax]

It could never be worse that during the Taksin reign, where 100% of all politician were deeply corrupt. It could have been much better, but unfortunately it is not, as corruption in the government is still thriving well. Why buy all these useless submarines, while the jobless people are starving?

Edited September 20, 2020 by Xonax

[Seeall]

4 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Which authorities? The military collective who seized power?

authorities, Legal ...  all just words these days..

[Xonax]

14 hours ago, EricTh said:

Many people are unemployed no thanks to the government closing off the borders to foreigners.

 

So Thaksin is using this opportunity to attack the present government.

 

Their hare-brained rich tourists scheme won't affect much considering all the requirements.

At the same time, there are many vacant jobs, thanks to the government closing off the borders to foreigners.
 

[jerolamo]

18 hours ago, 2 is 1 said:

Idiot question! Same than ask  after your most close person died: are you happy now? 

Nice to ask when really hard times! Maybe last year get different answer! 

each year ahead in a dictatorship will never be better. But at a time, you would be forced to said you are very very happy (even if not).

What do you not understand in the definition of the word "dictator" ?

[jerolamo]

1 hour ago, Bundooman said:

Scratch, spit and whine as much as you like. I see no difference between Thaksin and the current bunch. It is all about power and both he and this lot were and are pursuing the same goals! I was never a Thaksin hater and the people liked him - their choice.

But you also have a very selective memory.

Thaksin was, at that time, methodically stifling criticism nationwide and towards the press. On the occasion of his come-uppance, he was already embroiled in scandal over his wealth, widespread abuse of purchased votes, numerous brown lunch boxes and his increasingly dictator-style views. Additionally, at the time, he was the caretaker PM with designs on seizing total power, not the legally elected PM you make him out to be.

His sister came to power on her brother's back, waving a very expensive Samsung Galaxy Notebook -  one for every student in the country, together with a rice scheme that would enrich both he and her, while actually distributing the cheapest Chinese junk rejects that would neither work properly, have the benefit of manufacturing support and failed at every step of the way in terms of production, delivery, transparency and a host of other problems which guaranteed that every single one would be consigned to the bin within 6 months.

The rice was stolen, purchased and sold multiple times on pretexts of being Thai rice - illegally imported from Thailand's surrounding neighbours while Mr. Exile and Ms. 'Thank you 3 times', were raking it in.

You may be right that he was marginally better than this lot, but it was a case of "out of the frying pan - into the fire".

Not quite how it was described in your post, sir!

If you don't see any difference, it is because you are looking only your own situation.

Thai people, and most probably the poor ones, explain me how much things was changed when Taksin came on power.

They are talking about his fight against drug (they killed many dealers of drug) and child crime and slaves.

Before him, child was scary to go at school. When they heard a mini van, they threw themselves into the gutter to hide for fear that they would be removed. There was a lot of child abduction history before Taksin.

He also construct a social national assistance for people that never exist before. Now people seek go to hospital and just show there ID card.

 

You can not deny the history, but you can stay stupid to know nothing, but it is never good for yourself.

[Autonuaq]

18 hours ago, impulse said:

 

All of that may be true.  But if they held a fair election today, he'd win by a landslide.  Warts and all.  That's democracy.

 

And I fall back on my claim that just about every successful Asian economy started with a strongman who was corrupt and enriched his family for generations.  But kept tight enough control of the trough to allow enough to be left over after the graft to actually grow the economy.  Singapore, S Korea, Taiwan...  Okay, Japan's the exception, but that's because of WW2.

 

Thailand and south korea started at about the same level when the signed the Asean pack. Thai economy and for are was better at that moment in time the the once of south korea.

 

When you look now at both countries as well the rest you se thailand still falls back and is over taken by other countries.

 

Knowing this fact the ask tasks in how it comes the administration s this family was part of not succeed like south korea did.

 

Think this explains explains enough

[Pedrogaz]

I wasn't here when Thaksin was PM, but I have been told on numerous occasions that the country was full of hope for the future after the financial disaster in 1997. When I first came here in 2008, I lived on a soi in the country that had electricity and mobile phone masts installed in the Thaksin era....needless to say these poor people were grateful. Also Thaksin was a builder....schools, hospitals....brought in healthcare and started pension planning like a real country, not a banana republic.

Was he corrupt? Undoubtedly, but I would rather than a corrupt politician that was on the take but gave something back to the poor; than the rest of the politicians who take and take and take and give nothing back but hardship.

[Artisi]

2 hours ago, Xonax said:

It could never be worse that during the Taksin reign, where 100% of all politician were deeply corrupt. It could have been much better, but unfortunately it is not, as corruption in the government is still thriving well. Why buy all these useless submarines, while the jobless people are starving?

Why buy submarines, well the boys need their toys and the planes-less aircraft carrier is a white elephant and useless. 

 

Edited September 20, 2020 by Artisi

[Caldera]

20 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

The rich obviously are, the poor not at all.

Cannot wait to read the drivel from the Thaksin haters, who, by the way, was fairly elected, as was his sister, who was also illegally deposed.

Spot on. Most Thais would be much better off today and the country wouldn't have lost 14 years of development. Saddening.

 

[pacovl46]

22 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

The rich obviously are, the poor not at all.

Cannot wait to read the drivel from the Thaksin haters, who, by the way, was fairly elected, as was his sister, who was also illegally deposed.

It doesn’t matter whether he was fairly elected, which isn’t the case because he bought votes, just like he paid the red shirts 500 Baht per day to show up in Bangkok on his behalf. What matters is that he’s a criminal on the run and he needs to come back to Thailand and face the music for his actions or else shut the <deleted> up!!! 

[from the home of CC]

18 hours ago, Spacegoat said:

Thaksin should be responsible for the at least two muslim massacres happend in 2004. UK news media never forgives Fujimori, but looks pretty welcoming Thaksin. Disgusting double standard limies...

mainly due to Jonathon Headcase the red shirt cheerleader..

[GarryP]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems you live somewhere up country possibly in a red-shirt village.

Thaksin was a problem for years before he did what he did more and more obvious and Sonthi had no problem gathering support to fight the corrupt criminal. People were frustrated with Thaksin and they were happy to have someone to lead them against Thaksin.

If you think I am talking nonsense then many you should get out of your village from time to time and visit the city with all those tax paying people.

Sonthi(een) was a Thaksinite. He was promoting Thaksin as the best thing since sliced bread. However, when he did not get the reprieve from his debt/bankruptcy problems, which he thought Thaksin would sort out, he switched sides and started claiming Thaksin was evil personified. He was upset that all the positive press he gave Thaksin didn't get him what he expected.   

 

Sonthi(een) is a self serving tw-at who can be trusted about as far as you can throw him.    

[Golden Triangle]

20 hours ago, trucking said:

 

Well, don't presume to start a thread on it because it won't last long.

Forum rules. If you have a scoop it must be passed on to the news team  who will post it for you.

They hate to be outscooped ????????

[LukKrueng]

23 hours ago, impulse said:

 

And it's not as if the voters didn't know he was corrupt when they voted for him (and his sister). 

 

But at least he let some of the wealth trickle down to the masses.  Which the Elite couldn't stand.

 

Actually it's the other way around. He kept all to himself. He tripled his fortune in 6 years while turning against corruptions he couldn't take part of. Also, during his tenior household debt grew to levels unseen before. He made rules and laws to suit himself (one of the first laws he changed was the open skies. 2 days later he rolled out Thai air Asia in which he was a major shareholder, and at the end of his tenior he sold the biggest telecommunications company in Thailand, including satellites, to a Singapore state owned company...) 

There was freedom of speech during his time, but only if you said good things about him. Any reporter who tries to say anything against him lost his job and was sued for millions of dollars. Including a reporter and an editor of the BKK Post who wrote an article about cracks on the runway of the yet to be opened suvarnaphumi airport - which was true and eventually had to be fixed (as well as most ramps and airplane parking spots throughout the airport...).

On an official trip to Burma he took the top executives of AIS with him,  and they sold the Burmese government a communications package for 1 billion baht. However the Burmese goverments didn't have the money, so upon his return to Thailand he got the Thai government to loan the money to Burma (get it? He basically robbed the government of 1 billion baht...)

 

And the list goes on and on....

 

So yes, there is corruption in Thailand. Always has been and will probably stay for long long time. But there are levels of corruption and there are Taksin levels of corruption.. 

[EricTh]

8 hours ago, Xonax said:

At the same time, there are many vacant jobs, thanks to the government closing off the borders to foreigners.
 

It's not closed to work permit holders , just to tourists.

 

Only very few jobs are open to foreigners, mostly English teachers. You can't apply for jobs that Thai people are able to do.

[Jack Hna]

On 9/19/2020 at 3:46 PM, impulse said:

 

Maybe true.  But being about the most important thing happening in Thailand right now, you'd think a Thai based forum would cover it better. 

 

Instead, we get thread after thread about...  The Amnesty, will it be extended?

Keeps the desperados knocking on the doors of agents. Keeps cnuts like me stating the faking obvious. Suppression professionals, I actually respect the quality of the suppression techniques these mediums employ but I don't like it.

[ujayujay]

On 9/19/2020 at 9:10 PM, Thaiwrath said:

The rich obviously are, the poor not at all.

Cannot wait to read the drivel from the Thaksin haters, who, by the way, was fairly elected, as was his sister, who was also illegally deposed.

Yingluck illegally deposed????????????

[kensawadee]

I don't know how much better off they are in more important ways,,,, But they do have a submarine soon..... LOL ....

[impulse]

3 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

Actually it's the other way around. He kept all to himself. He tripled his fortune in 6 years while turning against corruptions he couldn't take part of.

.....

So yes, there is corruption in Thailand. Always has been and will probably stay for long long time. But there are levels of corruption and there are Taksin levels of corruption.. 

 

The difference being that he was one guy and could only steal so much.  The problem today is that there's a thousand guys each stealing all they can.   Because there's nobody controlling the trough and "turning against corruptions he can't take part of".  So it's a free-for-all.

 

 

[impulse]

2 hours ago, EricTh said:

It's not closed to work permit holders , just to tourists.

 

Only very few jobs are open to foreigners, mostly English teachers. You can't apply for jobs that Thai people are able to do.

 

That's not true.  There is a specific list of jobs that are reserved for Thai people.  If it's not on that list, it's open to foreigners.

 

If your statement were true, there wouldn't be thousands (millions?) of Burmese and Lao laborers in Thailand.

 

You may be confusing applying for a western salary when there are Thai people who can do the job for a tiny fraction of the money.  But that's not a legal thing.  It's a profit thing.

 

And there are some areas where the government expects multi-national companies to give preference to Thai people.  My job was one of those, but that's mostly because our company was in partnership with a branch of the government.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

7 hours ago, GarryP said:

Sonthi(een) was a Thaksinite. He was promoting Thaksin as the best thing since sliced bread. However, when he did not get the reprieve from his debt/bankruptcy problems, which he thought Thaksin would sort out, he switched sides and started claiming Thaksin was evil personified. He was upset that all the positive press he gave Thaksin didn't get him what he expected.   

 

Sonthi(een) is a self serving tw-at who can be trusted about as far as you can throw him.    

And still Sonthi exposed lots of Thaksin's activities - for whatever reason. He became the anti-Thaksin leader people were looking for. In later years Suthep had a similar role. Suthep is far away from a good guy. But he also exposes Thaksin's crimes. The crimes can be fact checked, they happened.

[LukKrueng]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

 

The difference being that he was one guy and could only steal so much.  The problem today is that there's a thousand guys each stealing all they can.   Because there's nobody controlling the trough and "turning against corruptions he can't take part of".  So it's a free-for-all.

 

 

I'm not sure they take more than he took and will continue to take should he ever have the opportunity. 

And as for "free to all" - don't you think it's a much better situation as opposed to western countries where only the rich and connected people can get away with just about anything while the little guy can't? 

[mikebell]

On 9/19/2020 at 9:05 PM, rooster59 said:

despite their good education

Where?

[NanLaew]

20 hours ago, madmitch said:

Thaksin was in charge when I first came to Thailand, having never had any interest in Thai politics previously. All I could see at that time was a corrupt, self-interested politician buying votes and introducing populist policies as a way of keeping power in order to continue inthe same way as long as possible.

 

Fast forward 14 years and we've seen a succession of Governments, including military ones, who have continued to milk the country, culminating in the current shower whose vested interests and favourtism to the biggest businesses in the country are to the exclusion of almost everyone else.

 

Was Thaksin as bad as these? I don't think so. At least he attempted to help the person in the street, even if his motives may have been disingenuous.

 

Give me Thanathorn any day but Thaksin would be a far better option than the incumbent.

 

I tend to split the resident farang intelligentsia here into the Before Thaksin (BT) and After Thaksin (AT) camps. You came here During Thaksin (DT) and your Thai political nous developed in those and subsequent years. I had one good friend, recently deceased who, like myself, remembered the BT years. He was definitely anti-Thaksin for pretty much the same reasons you observed, namely "...corrupt, self-interested politician buying votes and introducing populist policies as a way of keeping power..." but I also think that like many farang's who came here when it was seen as a land of milk and honey, he resented Thaksin's intrusion on their "beer and honeys". Personally, I left Thailand between 1990 and 2007 and unlike my departed friend, I totally missed the DT years. However, like yourself, I don't see a hill of beans of difference between the revolving door of former army generals and their easy Prime Minsterial and cabinet picks that made for successively rubbish Thai governments between 1979 and 1990 and the motley fools that have stuck their oar in the backwater since I returned.

 

Fomenting populism was one of the 'crimes' that the Boonyaratglin junta leveled at Thaksin's politics but fast-forward and you see that populism is no longer a dirty word here and was even part of the failed Abhisit administration that was propped up by the military until other forces made it untenable. The current administration struggles to embrace populism while practicing authoritarianism; it's their way of "bringing happiness to the people" after all. They have to embrace populism since there's no way of getting that particular genie back in that particular bottle.

 

As Charles Dickens frequently intoned, 'twas ever thus'

[NanLaew]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And still Sonthi exposed lots of Thaksin's activities - for whatever reason. He became the anti-Thaksin leader people were looking for. In later years Suthep had a similar role. Suthep is far away from a good guy. But he also exposes Thaksin's crimes. The crimes can be fact checked, they happened.

They both pointed at Thaksin to prevent people looking too closely at their own dirty laundry. Deflections like this are not a uniquely Thai political trait.

[OneMoreFarang]

18 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

They both pointed at Thaksin to prevent people looking too closely at their own dirty laundry. Deflections like this are not a uniquely Thai political trait.

On the other hand crooks know best what to look for in other crooks. At least I am happy they helped to expose Thaksin.

[Baerboxer]

On 9/19/2020 at 9:10 PM, Thaiwrath said:

The rich obviously are, the poor not at all.

Cannot wait to read the drivel from the Thaksin haters, who, by the way, was fairly elected, as was his sister, who was also illegally deposed.

 

Rather feeble attempt to spike any comments you might not like about your heroes. 

 

Yes, both were legally elected. And both were legally convicted by a court of law. Guess you forgot to mention the latter.

 

Or to mention that Thaksin dissolved parliament, then resigned as caretaker PM and a replacement was duly appointed. Only Thaksin changed his mind and wanted the job back. So he took it on no one's authority but his own. When on route to represent Thailand at the UN he had no legal right to do so. 

 

Yingluck also dissolved parliament, shortly after vowing not to! She was removed from the caretaker PM position for an illegal abuse of power. She had previously failed in her attempts to sneak through a blanket whitewash for her brother which brought massive demonstrations out against the Shin family which ironically facilitated the 2014 coup.

 

 

You might also remember Thaksin was acquitted on a charge of false asset disclosure by a majority decision. He was convicted of abusing his power in a land purchase scam with his former wife; even after the notorious bribes in a pastry box scandal for which his lawyer was jailed.

 

There you are a bit of context.

 

Hardly pristine socially responsible philanthropists are they? More like trying to create a kleptocracy controlled by their family a la Hun Sen and reminiscent of the Del Santos family.