Protesters from around the country arrive in Bangkok for anti-government rally

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Estimated numbers from people there have it higher than 100k. 

 

These numbers will grow and protests will lengthen until there is change, or violence. I know which one I am betting on. 

 

The disgraced lunatic Sonthi is already spreading the disinformation and conspiracy theories that the US and Thaksin are behind this. 

 

This may be a very important period in  history for modern Thailand. 

 

People "there" are not necessarily a good source on estimates of crowd size. Guess the actual figures are somewhere in the middle between extremes. Whether numbers will grow or things fizzle is something that remains to be seen. Don't know if the actual platform is enough to sustain such efforts, plus strains of the Covid-19 situation may play a part.

 

I don't know about the USA being involved, kinda doubtful on that score. As for Thaksin, maybe not so much directly involved, but stirring the pot and keeping an eye on things, sure. See parallel topic.

 

In the last 15 years or so there were several similar instances labeled "very important period in history for modern Thailand" (or somesuch). Guess what? No a whole lot changed, for all the hot air, big words and those hurt. I have serious doubts as to the forces involved in current protests would act very differently if and when they assume power.

[rtco]

3 hours ago, steven100 said:

sad, very sad indeed as it is a recipe for the virus to spread. I am sure we'll see a spike in the numbers in the coming days and next week. 

What virus ... how many times must PC-O tell you that there is no virus in Thailand!!!

[Morch]

23 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Not sad at all. The major majority of the New Thai Generation and older smarter thinking ones have had enough of the military Elite control circus. The virus is secondary to this and they are willing to contract it in order to protest for freedom and true democracy for their lives. 

 

How is the virus secondary? OK, I mean, not in the minds of (hopefully, just some) protestors, but for real. Would the prospects of their supposed democratic goals be better served if Covid-19 ran rampant? Would they, assuming they come to power, be better suited to deal with the situation?

 

Thailand is already hurting (like many other countries) economically. Luckily this has not, so far, been accompanied by a major public health crisis as seen in various other places. I seriously doubt the country can withstand a double pronged crisis involving both issues.

[Morch]

23 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

There is no middle ground. It is 100% get out and then reform from the top to the bottom.

 

Tough words from a foreigner. Forward, he cried.

Living here for some time, it's quite amusing reading such comments. Is there anything, whatsoever, to recommend the current lot of emerging 'leadership' as capable of introducing meaningful reforms? Of being able to sustain efforts along such lines? Of not turning into a facsimile of those they protest against?

[sweatalot]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Well it's been reported several times already that many old red shirts people had already joined the protest. 

I hope they don't have the same goals, strategy and paymaster as in the past

[scorecard]

1 minute ago, sweatalot said:

I hope they don't have the same goals, strategy and paymaster as in the past

Me too, but sadly I doubt their goals have changed at all.

 

If they do try to push their old goals and I'm sure they will, I hope the new youngsters call them out quickly and push them away quickly, and I suspect they will do just that.  

 

Of course now stand by for the usual '...if an election was held right now they would win in a landslide...' Always forgotten of course is the dirty tricks they used before, like democracy schools, etc., all a total scam. 

 

 

[holy cow cm]

21 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

How is the virus secondary? OK, I mean, not in the minds of (hopefully, just some) protestors, but for real. Would the prospects of their supposed democratic goals be better served if Covid-19 ran rampant? Would they, assuming they come to power, be better suited to deal with the situation?

 

Thailand is already hurting (like many other countries) economically. Luckily this has not, so far, been accompanied by a major public health crisis as seen in various other places. I seriously doubt the country can withstand a double pronged crisis involving both issues.

It is now or never in their minds, and if we really want to look at it realistically is that the younger generation are far likely less to die, but then their piers and older family are more susceptible to hospitalization with perhaps death. I am not for spreading the CV19 Chinese made virus as I am older as well as my wife, but let's not condemn the Thai fort the CV19 spread but put the blame where it needs to go back to being the Chinese. Unfortunately there is always a cost for freedom and true democracy.

[HaoleBoy]

It seems Thailand must revamp their constitution to get rid of the "Senate" vote for PM before anything else can happen.  Just having a new election today would still leave the corrupt military appointed Senate with mighty big powers to influence.

[holy cow cm]

21 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Tough words from a foreigner. Forward, he cried.

Living here for some time, it's quite amusing reading such comments. Is there anything, whatsoever, to recommend the current lot of emerging 'leadership' as capable of introducing meaningful reforms? Of being able to sustain efforts along such lines? Of not turning into a facsimile of those they protest against?

Yeah I have been here near 30yrs and have kids 25, 19, and 17. It is their world not the selfish controlling dinosaur Regime and Elite or ours, and they are pushing and saying enough is enough and it is time to change from a regime and let them find their own way. My children and their friends and my Thai friends are the ones shouting forward. And yes I understand their decision.

[Artisi]

28 minutes ago, rtco said:

What virus ... how many times must PC-O tell you that there is no virus in Thailand!!!

But then he contradicts himself by saying the protest gathering will result in an increase of CV19 cases, talk about playing both sides to suit his argument. 

[Morch]

14 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

It is now or never in their minds, and if we really want to look at it realistically is that the younger generation are far likely less to die, but then their piers and older family are more susceptible to hospitalization with perhaps death. I am not for spreading the CV19 Chinese made virus as I am older as well as my wife, but let's not condemn the Thai fort the CV19 spread but put the blame where it needs to go back to being the Chinese. Unfortunately there is always a cost for freedom and true democracy.

 

Other than banging on about "Chinese made virus", or repeating which segments of population are more vulnerable, this has nothing much to do with my post. You can spin it however you like, but if this country will face both economic and public health crises at the same time - this lot wouldn't have a clue of how to deal with things.

[Morch]

17 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Yeah I have been here near 30yrs and have kids 25, 19, and 17. It is their world not the selfish controlling dinosaur Regime and Elite or ours, and they are pushing and saying enough is enough and it is time to change from a regime and let them find their own way. My children and their friends and my Thai friends are the ones shouting forward. And yes I understand their decision.

 

Fair enough, I retract the comment about "foreigner". That's more roots than many of us have here.

 

We'll have to disagree as to current affair implying any upcoming changes or much chances of such. IMO, the politicians associated (or semi-associated) with these protest are not capable, not trustworthy, and not in it for the public good. The 'grass roots' leadership is more fluff than substance, and given a few perks they are sure to become just the same.

 

Edit - not offering an endorsement or adulation of the current regime. Just not seeing the alternative as much of an improvement. If going by previous 'democracy' drives, the end results are not necessarily preferable.

Edited September 20, 2020 by Morch

[JusticeGB]

4 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Pro-democracy protesters across the nation reached Sanam Luang in Bangkok on Saturday to join the political rally later in the day, while four fire engines have been stationed at Government House for emergencies.

I assume that the emergency will be to hose down protestors and not fires in spite of uncle Tu promising no violence against the protesters!

[Okis]

47 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Tough words from a foreigner. Forward, he cried.

Living here for some time, it's quite amusing reading such comments. Is there anything, whatsoever, to recommend the current lot of emerging 'leadership' as capable of introducing meaningful reforms? Of being able to sustain efforts along such lines? Of not turning into a facsimile of those they protest against?

I dont know how old you are but the younger generations are really tired of the boomers trying to cling to power until their own deaths and trying to force the rest of the population to adhere to their conservative beliefs. 

 

Let me tell you this,  what i saw in my wifes eyes and facial expression when she for the very first time in her life was given a opportunity to make a diffrence and her voice/vote got blatantly stolen then i understood how bad this really is and how bad it soon is gonna get.

 

There is no backing out for them anymore since there are no longer any other options. They've tried it all already and this is the only thing left to do. They didnt choose this, the generals, bangkok elite and the other guy made this choice. 

Edited September 20, 2020 by Okis

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, Okis said:

I dont know how old you are but the younger generations are really tired of the boomers trying to cling to power until their own deaths and trying to force the rest of the population to adhere to their conservative beliefs. 

 

Let me tell you this,  what i saw in my wifes eyes and facial expression when she for the very first time in her life was given a opportunity to make a diffrence and her voice/vote got blatantly stolen then i understood how bad this really is and how bad it soon is gonna get.

 

There is no backing out for them anymore since there are no longer any other options. They've tried it all already and this is the only thing left to do. They didnt choose this, the generals, bangkok elite and the other guy made this choice. 

 

Again, all this talk of 'no backing out', no 'other options' is kinda at disconnect with events of the last 15 years or so. There were far larger protests, more inflamed conflicts, plus violence on offer. Most of it went away - or swept under the rug, depending on POV.

 

I'm watching these protests, I listen to family members who are into it - and it still seems a pale remake of the previous episodes.

[hotchilli]

4 hours ago, steven100 said:

sad, very sad indeed as it is a recipe for the virus to spread. I am sure we'll see a spike in the numbers in the coming days and next week. 

Quit with this virus horse dung, it's a very tired argument, about as boring as Prayut claim to stop the protest on health issues.

[Okis]

10 minutes ago, Morch said:

 There were far larger protests, more inflamed conflicts, plus violence on offer. Most of it went away - or swept under the rug, depending on POV.

 

 and it still seems a pale remake of the previous episodes.

You are contradicting yourself. 

 

It never went away, it goes idle for a while and then it comes back.  That's why the circle needs to be broken so it can meet its end.  That's why they say that this will end with their generation. 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2020 by Okis

[rumak]

2 hours ago, DirtyHarry55 said:

Is using Razor Wire around public owned Government buildings even legal it's not a battle ground?
Imagine the outcry had they done the same with Yellow Shirts.

I think the Razor Wire is there because an expert at Ramkamheang Univ.  just proclaimed that it

would help contain the virus.    social distancing and all,  ya know

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, Okis said:

You are contradicting yourself. 

 

It never went away, it goes idle for a while and then it comes back.  That's why the circle needs to meet its end.  That's why they say that this will end with their generation. 

 

 

 

No contradiction. Some people say it goes away, some say it's just swept under the rug. Whatever. They can say whatever they like, but it's been said before - my point is that there's little to support this 'generation' being different than others, and the same with regard to probable results.

[Okis]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

No contradiction. Some people say it goes away, some say it's just swept under the rug. Whatever. They can say whatever they like, but it's been said before - my point is that there's little to support this 'generation' being different than others, and the same with regard to probable results.

If you look at history then you know it never went away. Semantics are irrelevant. 

 

There's alot different with this generation, since they are aiming at pulling up the roots of the problem to break the cycle.  Something that havent been attempted/done for over 80 years.  

Edited September 20, 2020 by Okis

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, Okis said:

If you look at history then you know it never went away. Semantics are irrelevant. 

 

There's alot different with this generation, since they are aiming at pulling up the roots of the problem to break the cycle.  Something that havent been attempted/done for over 80 years.  

 

I'm quite aware of relevant history, thanks. You either don't get my point or insist on misrepresenting it as a personal position.

 

As for what you allude to, I'd posit that it's not really 'the root of the problem'. Even if they are somehow successful in this, I doubt that the effects will be as advertised. I'd even go so far as saying that it's likely things will get worse on certain issues.

 

 

[holy cow cm]

25 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Other than banging on about "Chinese made virus", or repeating which segments of population are more vulnerable, this has nothing much to do with my post. You can spin it however you like, but if this country will face both economic and public health crises at the same time - this lot wouldn't have a clue of how to deal with things.

Sorry, don't agree with you in the slightest. Fact is the most intelligent and educated have jumped ship out of being puppeteer controlled (non regime) and there are tons of real brilliant Thai who are non regime and non elite that have the ability to steer this country in so many better ways. The latest jump was from the last finance minister. Funny that there is a convicted heroin trafficker and another who cheated on University exams at some of the top positions in the government, while the others are regime or only mere yes men and women sheep at the trough. The fact is it couldn't get any worse.

[Dumbastheycome]

5 minutes ago, Okis said:

If you look at history then you know it never went away. Semantics are irrelevant. 

 

There's alot diffrent with this generation, since they are aiming to pull up the roots of the problem to break the cycle.  Something that havent been attempted for over 80 years. 

It may seem so but there are a lot of international observations that interpret the current activity as a coerced and financially sponsored attempt to primarily disrupt and intervene in involvement of Chinese  interests in Thailand rather than any real interest or concern for the people of Thailand itself.

 

[holy cow cm]

42 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Fair enough, I retract the comment about "foreigner". That's more roots than many of us have here.

 

We'll have to disagree as to current affair implying any upcoming changes or much chances of such. IMO, the politicians associated (or semi-associated) with these protest are not capable, not trustworthy, and not in it for the public good. The 'grass roots' leadership is more fluff than substance, and given a few perks they are sure to become just the same.

 

Edit - not offering an endorsement or adulation of the current regime. Just not seeing the alternative as much of an improvement. If going by previous 'democracy' drives, the end results are not necessarily preferable.

All we can do is stay positive for the New Generations futures and hope they don't follow in the same boot steps of lies, deceit and corruption for feeding frenzy. This is sort of a different ballgame and generation, so the need to keep on trying as it certainly is not working now.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Sorry, don't agree with you in the slightest. Fact is the most intelligent and educated have jumped ship out of being puppeteer controlled (non regime) and there are tons of real brilliant Thai who are non regime and non elite that have the ability to steer this country in so many better ways. The latest jump was from the last finance minister. Funny that there is a convicted heroin trafficker and another who cheated on University exams at some of the top positions in the government, while the others are regime or only mere yes men and women sheep at the trough. The fact is it couldn't get any worse.

 

First of all, let me repeat - I'm not a fan of the current regime, nor do I sing its praises. Its main selling point as far as I can see, is that it's not the one it replaced (or any of its previous versions). So yes, given how the country is - I would prefer a stable if less democratic management over a dysfunctional 'democratic' option. It's not ideal, but it is what it is. Have my doubts as to the country and people can fully embrace democracy with all that it implies, in something approaching the Western sense.

 

As for the trust you express in the new generation and its leadership, we'll simply have to disagree. Little of what I see, hear or read gives me the impressions you seem to hold.

 

And lastly, things couldn't get worse is something I've learned to be disbelieve in. Things could always get worse. Much worse.

[shackleton]

Well according to reports the protesters meeting was positive no violence 

As usual the Media has over hyped on this expecting the worst

Just glad it went okay for everyone concerned

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

All we can do is stay positive for the New Generations futures and hope they don't follow in the same boot steps of lies, deceit and corruption for feeding frenzy. This is sort of a different ballgame and generation, so the need to keep on trying as it certainly is not working now.

 

Well, I'm not quite seeing how this is a different ball game or how this generation is different. If anything much of it seems like a rehash of the same old (some of the background voices certainly are) - more like a mediocre remake. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

To be clear, not doubting that many desire change, or that many have the best intentions. I do question what they formulate as reform, and their ability to deliver even on their own ideas. Most of it seems like the usual slogans, with little logic or forethought implied.

 

It doesn't mean things are good, great or even alright. Not in the least. The anger, the frustration - they are there for a reason. It's the solutions, the rhetoric and the attitude on offer which I'm less than impressed with.

[holy cow cm]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

First of all, let me repeat - I'm not a fan of the current regime, nor do I sing its praises. Its main selling point as far as I can see, is that it's not the one it replaced (or any of its previous versions). So yes, given how the country is - I would prefer a stable if less democratic management over a dysfunctional 'democratic' option. It's not ideal, but it is what it is. Have my doubts as to the country and people can fully embrace democracy with all that it implies, in something approaching the Western sense.

 

As for the trust you express in the new generation and its leadership, we'll simply have to disagree. Little of what I see, hear or read gives me the impressions you seem to hold.

 

And lastly, things couldn't get worse is something I've learned to be disbelieve in. Things could always get worse. Much worse.

No choice but to wait and see how things unfold, but the way the world is now there will first probably be a major conflict in the S China sea or directly in the Taiwan Straight which could drive things differently as in more negative for what is going on here. Me and my family are ok monetarily and can ride anything out for the long term. 

[holy cow cm]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Well, I'm not quite seeing how this is a different ball game or how this generation is different. If anything much of it seems like a rehash of the same old (some of the background voices certainly are) - more like a mediocre remake. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

To be clear, not doubting that many desire change, or that many have the best intentions. I do question what they formulate as reform, and their ability to deliver even on their own ideas. Most of it seems like the usual slogans, with little logic or forethought implied.

 

It doesn't mean things are good, great or even alright. Not in the least. The anger, the frustration - they are there for a reason. It's the solutions, the rhetoric and the attitude on offer which I'm less than impressed with.

What they are trying to reform and or kick out is like going against a goliath and seems like the impossible, but there is hope. The noise in the background from the old factions on both sides has to be sat down and out for sure, but there seems to be a honest sincerity of change with this generation. Look at the force growing against global warming. It is happening and has taken some huge roots.

 

 

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

No choice but to wait and see how things unfold, but the way the world is now there will first probably be a major conflict in the S China sea or directly in the Taiwan Straight which could drive things differently as in more negative for what is going on here. Me and my family are ok monetarily and can ride anything out for the long term. 

 

Well, that takes us back to the previous Covid-19 issue. It's pretty similar in that greater, farther reaching developments and events may take precedence to local politics, or affect them in unforeseen ways.

 

In case of a (real, not propaganda) major Covid-19 outbreak, I think the protests will take the backseat - and it's a good question if and how they'll resurface. Same can be said regarding effects on the current regime, of course.